If evolution is real and occurs randomly without conscious effort as believed in creationism, how does it know that giving ducks webbed feet or giving fish fins would allow them to propel through water easily than without?
How does evolution know that webbed feet or fins are the perfect solution for treading water from a physics perspective?
Other urls found in this thread:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
twitter.com
evolution happens when a group is separated from the species and forced to survive.
crocodiles and sharks are examples of animals that haven't been forced and thus had little changes to their genome over hundreds of millions of years.
evolution is the destruction of beauty. let's say for a minute it's possible to prove it's real. would you want to live in a world that just happened to be here?
i choose to live in a world divinely inspired, beautifully crafted, by my God. humans have done a good job fucking up and shitting all over God's canvas, i'll admit that. but i'll never believe this was random chance
which fish first mutated to have lungs, and why did nature think that was a positive mutation for that organism to have? because it makes zero sense. darwin admitted on his deathbed his theory was full of holes
They're mutations that appear randomly but are beneficial. There were thousands of mutations that weren't before there was one that was. Whoever the lucky duck was that got the good mutation it helped ensured he survived better and thus was more likely to pass on his genes.
So then tell me, did god create the niggers?
>How does evolution know that webbed feet or fins are the perfect solution for treading water from a physics perspective
It doesn't. Physics does. Webbed feet are feet on which the skin has been stretched abnormally high. This mutation started as the ancestors of ducks wading through water as a primarily means of survival. As webbed feet is better at catching water and pushing the body through it, the individuals with the most webbing on their feet were able to survive more easily and hence able to spread their seeds far and wide. This wen't on continually till we have ducks with webbing on their feet..
It doest, evolution is a meme
animals with webbed feet managed to live longer than than the animals that didn't
>would you want to live in a world that just happened to be here
Of course. Isn't it wonderful what just the arbitrary rules of nature, when bundled together, can cook up? Such variety! Now imagine God did all the work. Then it's just another day at the animal factory, making new and improved animals.
How does evolution seemingly grasp the concept of webbed feet allowing a duck to propel through water better when it occurs randomly and without conscious effort?
How are random mutations capable of following a “since x is y, the solution is z” algorithmic pattern perfectly and consistently throughout nature without any conscious thought?
They don't. It is likely that along with webbed feet, there may have been other, not-so-useful-for-survival mutations, which got wiped out as they were not fit for survival.
>mutant duck born with two heads, dies
>mutant duck born with webbed feet, swims better, lives, webb-footed offspring inherit the earth
Pretty simple desu
Lol.
It's not survival of the fittest but survival of the best fit.
It doesn't follow an algorithmic pattern to find solutions; errors during dna replication lead to various changes, some of which confer advantages on the organism.
Many, many different types of shit are thrown at a wall, and some stick.
Look up how neural nets work, same deal.
yes, and they are some of the most elite hunter gatherers the world has ever known
God created the rules of nature. Also the fact that you project onto God man's desire to industrialize and depersonalize his creation is a total farce. Perhaps if you or I were in charge, we would have "animal factories." God breathes life into each of his creations. All inspiration comes from God. Industrialization is a symptom of godlessness, which is confirmed by your belief in evolution.
how is a fish, which lives underwater, mutating to have lungs, a beneficial change that would be passed on? they would most certainly die. please answer this or evolution makes zero sense
I love when people ignore things like giraffes. Why does the laryngeal nerve wrap around the heart? Intelligent design? No, God set the system in place and allowed his creation to reach a point at which he bestowed his spirit into mankind which elevated them from mere stardust, to stardust bearing the spirit inside them. Spirit is not of this world.
Whats a mudskipper?
>the most elite hunter gatherers
literally steal food from lions
>God breathes life into each of his creations
What does that mean? does he french kiss them to life? Is it not just "turning on a switch"?
>There were thousands of mutations that weren't before there was one that was.
Where are the sources for this? Are there any fossils? Ducks without webbed feet simply perched on trees instead, in which their feet are also unusually good at doing as the result of a completely “random” mutation.
What you’re saying can’t be true. theoretically species had to survive long enough to at least breed and allow these random mutations to occur, and thrive long enough sustain the metabolic functions for the mutations to occur.
>t. the earth is only 6000 years old
what a fucking retard
is that supposed to be an answer to my question? how is a mutation that is fundamentally fatal to an organism "passed" on as a positive trait?
Already knew this thread would be mostly American flags
>Where are the sources for this? Are there any fossils?
Since skin (and other soft body parts) rot away the first thing when something dies, we have almost no way of knowing if mutations to soft body parts occurred or not. But mutations to bone structure etc. in birds (from reptiles) have been documented through the discovery of the archaeopteryx.
>literally steal food from lions
good strategy
>What does that mean? does he french kiss them to life? Is it not just "turning on a switch"?
What I mean is that God does not set out to create "just because." It may be difficult to understand because of the vastness of the world, the variety of God's creation, but everything has its purpose. To try to act like we can even understand a fraction of God's logic is foolishness. God's wisdom should look like foolishness to us. His order should appear as chaos to us. That's how little you and I are.
Don't just take my word for it. Sink years and years of your life into trying to understand, rationalize, and explain everything on your own. You may find that an intelligent god makes more sense to you at the end of it all.
A mudskipper is a fish that can breathe on both land and water. As water started going down in lakes, it became a pivotal step to take for the mutations. Fishes with more ability to stay over water or breathe on land became the "fittest" while others died out.
>we have almost no way of knowing if mutations to soft body parts occurred or not.
So evolution is literally a myth?
>It may be difficult to understand because of the vastness of the world, the variety of The Universe's creation, but everything has its purpose. To try to act like we can even understand a fraction of Nature's logic is foolishness. Nature's wisdom should look like foolishness to us. It's order should appear as chaos to us. That's how little you and I are.
See how much you sound like materialists if one deitic being is switched with another?
Everything does not have it's own purpose. Tell me what purpose do mosquitoes have? Or any parasitic animal? Just to leech on beings and live another day is a purpose?
This is a just so story.
This has never been observed, it’s just conjecture.
Look into the actual mechanisms required for a mutation to become fixated and supposedly propagate through the population.
Antibiotic resistance in microbes is just deformation of their ribosomes, ie making them less efficient than their normal type. As soon as the antibiotic environment is removed, the non-“adapted” microbes outcompete the antibiotic resistant ones.
Wolves in captivity live far longer than domestic dogs.
Many fish have swim bladders, which are bladders of gas used for buoyancy. They already had something resembling lungs.
The beneficial change was to have these bladders filled with respirable gas taken from the surface.
It obviously proved a considerable advantage, as most species of the lungfish, despite having both lungs and gills, eventually lost the use of their gills.
The ones with webbed feet and fins survived
It’s that simple. It just selects for traits that favor survival/ eventual reproductive success
No. Evolution as a theory is one of the most refined and well researched explanations to variety in life. We can understand, through educational guessing and related discoveries in other organisms, how another group of organisms may have evolved. But yes, unless we went back in time, neither of our theories can be proved to be true.
>Yes
So you are equal to a nigger?
Nature doesn't think anything. It's blind. One fish got its DNA mutated during the process of reproduction and got the ability to breath air. That mutations helped it to survive and reproduce (because the sea was full of other fish and land was almost empty). Therefore giving its offspring the ability to breath air.
I can't believe people have the internet but can't figure out how evolution works. Every religious person I meet is fundamentally stupid in several other areas it's disgusting.
I know what a mudskipper is. defining that isn't answering the question. a population of healthy fish exists. one is born with lungs, does not even realize how to utilize mutation, inevitably dies. mutation passed on how?
>This has never been observed
When you say 'this', do you mean evolution or genetic mutation?
Do you think that all mutations are negative?
>As soon as the antibiotic environment is removed, the non-“adapted” microbes outcompete the antibiotic resistant ones.
Yeah no shit, because they're adapted to that environment.
>It's just conjecture.
Plato's cave. We can't know we're not in a matrix like set-up being harvested by robo-jews.
Reality is just conjecture.
reproduce more*
>occurs randomly
Stopped reading there.
>one is born with lungs
no. You're not just born with lungs. They continually develop over time. The one is born with slightly different gills which allow it to somewhat breathe over water.
>expects me to use human logic to defend God's infinitely higher wisdom
my man I just explained to you that it would appear as foolishness to you under the lens of human "logic." but hey i'm proud of you, you outwitted the dumb theist on Jow Forums and proved God wrong once and for all
i hope your skepticism and cynicism carries you far on your journey, don't forget to stop and admire God's creation along the way, it gets tiresome without a bit of beauty along the way
Evolietion is a joke
>If evolution is real and occurs randomly without conscious effort
>how does it know
Maybe the fish was swept ashore and didnt die. While he was ashore he got access to a lot of plants that noone else was using so he could eat his fill and spend the time he would have otherwise spent on searching food with the other fish on fuckin. Because he fucks more, his hereditary material is spread further throughout the genepool mof the species and this leads to the adaptation.
>can't find beauty in nature without a jewish fairy tale
cuck
Evolution is a competition for survival and it has not stopped since the birth of ancient RNA simple chains. Every mutation which helped organisms to survive and reproduce was passed from one generation to another.
I find beauty in Nature. We may be infinetesimal, but in our sphere of control we ourselves are god.
Look at what we can do to animals so closely resembling use. We have enslaved and completely changed entire species into our subjugation. We humans have powers beyond other animals' beliefs.
>evolution can’t be real because it would make me sad :(
facts don’t care about your feelings, libtard.
>I choose to live
Living was never a choice
>implying the only god is the god of the bible and not the self-evident god of the natural world
i even just refereed to myself as a theist but you faggots have such a hate boner for christ that you lost your ability to comprehend what you're reading lmao
>The ones with webbed feet and fins survived
And where is the proof of the existence of a waterborne species that didn’t survive because they didn’t already have all of the necessary attributes to thrive accordingly?
Wheres the proof of there having had been multiple mutations to occur within particular species until a few members with specific traits survived and outlived the others?
I don’t want theories and speculations similar to that in which atheists criticize creationists for. I want facts.
>only things we can observe are the things we know as fact
>hasn't observed Genesis
?
Obvious the adaptation starts small at first. A tiny mutation occurs, slight webbing in your example, and it proves to be not maladaptive.
The non-maladaptive trait continues to exist and if it then proves to be beneficial it will become amplified as it outcompetes the wildtype
There are protype lungs that can tolerate dry air for a limited amount of time. Fish like pic related can survive out of water for upwards of 30-45 minutes provided their body is moist.
>self-evident
lel, this means nothing.
look at Moorhen, these birds gotten relatively later on the water than ducks
>And where is the proof of the existence of a waterborne species that didn’t survive because they didn’t already have all of the necessary attributes to thrive accordingly
The proof is that they are dead while the one's who developed webbing survived. As for their existence, Mutations to soft body parts:don't know, but can (educatedly) guess.
Mutations to hard body parts: fossils.
>I want facts
Same from you, mate.
guys, OP is one of three possibilities:
1. a troll
2. home schooled
3. christian schooled.
normal american public schools teach evolution just like the rest of the world.
Google mountain beaver. It's the world's most primitive living rodent. If you want to see what a mammal lineage that hasn't been forced to evolve is like, they're a good spot to look. Highlights include: Primitive skull structure closer to a rabbit than a rat or squirrel, relatively simple kidneys that do not form concentrated urine, partially opposable thumbs, and the males have internal genitalia when it is not the breeding season. They also look like guinea pigs, but are their own family. All close relatives are extinct.
Love how you phrase this stuff. Evolutionary biology is a beautiful thing, isn't it?
That's why we don't use his archaic theory. We use his refined theory. He was on the right direction, but he missed some tracks here and there. He was also heavily ridiculed at the time, so even less motivation to study the theory.
Absolutely. We are blessed to live in this world.
>how does it know that giving ducks webbed feet or giving fish fins would allow them to propel through water easily than without?
evolution doesnt "know". It happens by dumb luck. Think about it like this, a million years ago some ducks are born with various size feet. the ducks with larger webs are naturally better swimmers than the ducks with smaller webs. the ducks with larger webs are more likely to survive and spread their genes. its not that evolution knows. It's that those species that are not equipped to survive simply dont.
Evolution is a byproduct of subconcious desire
Chemical soups don’t self assemble into cells. Particularly cells that only have one hand of the enantiomers.
I remember when the whole “life evolved from many sources” shifted to “one progenitor cell evolved into everything”.
What drove that is the sheer improbability of chemicals assembling themselves into a cell.
No single celled species has been observed evolving into multicellular species.
>How does evolution know
Bombardier Beatle
wink wink
The Bombardier beetle defends itself by blasting an explosive and toxic stream of hot water and chemicals at its enemies. But how could such a dangerous defense have evolved without killing the beetle itself?
>occurs randomly without conscious effort
It doesnt exactly work that way. It's not just random mutations but gradual change over generations that is made due to the environment AND BEHAVIOR of the organism.
Example being some animals that go into caves and never see the sun ever. Their eyes do not get stimulated so they go blind and eventually their offspring are born blind. They use feelers constantly for everything and so the feelers grow larger because they get worked more and are more important. Because they don't get any sun the pigmentation in their scales goes away until they lose all color. All sorts of stuff happens.
How evolved was Darwin to sleep with his first cousin?
A lot of the evidence darwinists push is such a joke. Like bird beaks, black or white moths and bacteria developing antibiotic resistance is supposedly proof that I evolved from a sponge.
Give me a fukin break.
So a shitty retard fish evolved some useless appendages that were energetically wasteful, but somehow it was so reproductively successful over and above it’s peers, that the gene coding for these retard arms exploded into prominence, and laid the foundation for subsequent adaptations that eventually produced non retarded looking land based creatures.
Yeah, they just don’t become other species
Plato was right about a lot of things you silly Kraut
>somehow it was so reproductively successful
Not somehow. These appendages were far faster than just flopping around on land. This helped them evade predators in the water. Hence, survival increased.
Could you care to explain why it is joke, or is this just canacuck garbage?
>tfw betta male
...dios mio...
so this...is the power...of common core
Some ducks are born with smaller webs and larger webs due to how offspring works with two parents. Ducks with larger webbed feet can swim faster and flee from predators easier. Ducks with smaller webbed can still do both, but not as effectively. When it comes time to mate, more ducks that were born with slightly larger webbed feet have survived to adulthood and thus, there is a greater chance for the next generation to inherit the large webbed feet trait. This gets repeated literally thousands of tines, which is where different species of ducks come from.
The fossil record contains an estimated 1% of the organisms that have to lived on earth. Fossilization is actually rare.
Tyrannosaurus Rex roamed this planet for at least 5 million years. Only 39 specimens have been found. Of those 39, only 6 were more than 30% complete. And these are animals with vertebrae larger than a human skull.
Darwin's theory of evolution was based on the finchs he observed on the Galapagos islands.
Since his death, we have observed a new species of finch evolve on the islands. This is highly documented.
this is nonsense
you sound like will smiths nigger son
Where the FUCK are the fossils? The planet would be littered beyond belief with so many transitions.
...but its not. Rip athiests. Good luck with death.
Or a woodpecker skull not bashing itself to bits
I consider myself Christian but I still believe in evolution because I've literally worked in genetics labs and ran my own experiments that teased out atavistic phenotypes
Fish using flashlights to attract food. Imagine the light glowing for the first time....
"Wow, im gonna make sure muh babies have lights too, soo handy!"
The conditions for fossilization are not as widespread as you assume. Most dead things just dissolve and lose all trace of their structure entirely
>mountain beaver.
A factory doesn't stop being factory the momeny there is no one manually operating the machinery
you do realise that not every corpse leaves a fossil behind
>Where the FUCK are the fossils?
there’s some in museums, you should try going to one of those this weekend instead of staying home and fucking your cousin like usual
USian trole bestest trole. epic
>How does evolution know
you are retarded aren't you?
evolution = mutation
If beneficial = survives and passes on in genes
And yet you still (probably) believe I'm a real person and not a robo-jew algorithm. You still (probably) have someone you love and regard as a human being and not just some robo-jew algorithm.
Plato was right, yet we still all treat the world as if it's real. I believe in macroevolution because it seems like the best possible explanation given our current understanding of the world.
>I choose to not believe things because I don't like them
Thank you for reminding me why I have low respect for religious people. The absolute definition of taking a blue pill.
Conjecture, show the math for how much more reproductively successful the mutant needs to be for this adaption to become fixated in the population for you to have the next mutation be overlaid properly on the first one.
I’ll wait.
mud flood
based word salad retard
>Im brainwashed and think transistional proof exists in museum.
Open a book other than your public school propaganda, child.
>fossils don’t exist in museums
close your cousin’s legs, Cletus.