I am a female, early twenties in age, should I get married to this person that my parents want for me? I have only seen him one time. It seems like as far as hobbies and interests go we really do not share anything in common, he was shorter than me and thinner, he was kind and nice on the first date. I don't know, should I go for it? What's the right course of action?
Should I get married or not?
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Jesus, get to know him first and tell your parents to back the fuck off: neither of you are going to be happy if it's forced.
You are a pajeet, aren't you? Sounds like a bad idea if you ask me.
You should NEVER get married in your 20s. The reason for the drop in divorce rate recently is because people are thinking more before marrying and making more careful and mature choices
My parents are very persistent on it, and I have to provide a solid reason why if I would refuse to marry him. My mother says 'if he is kind, why would anything else matter?' And I'm honestly not sure what to think.
Yes, yes I am. Care to explain? I just want to have a solid reason.
I do not want to marry when I'm in my 30s, because of the possibility of having children, which is something I would like to have in my 20s.
Is he wealthy? How are the divorce laws in your country? You don't want to get yourself trapped with an abusive jerk.
This is your life, not your parents' life.
And also, this isn't the 1800s, you don't need to rush and have kids in your teens and early 20s. As someone who did get married and had a kid in her early 20s, you will be making a huge mistake.
Well, if i got married it would be hard to ask for a divorce, it's not culturally acceptable behavior. Not sure what to do.
Well do you know what do you want to do? Because if no and you want children during your 20s then marrying is way to go. However, this . You are an adult, you can make your own decisions. Don't rely on parents but on yourself. On the other hand, since he is thinner and shorter, you can easily overpower him... if you have THAT kind of kink then go for it.
>because of the possibility of having children
You are in your 20s, there's no way you can know at this age if you really want kids or not. It's an enormous thing and can be done in your 30s when you are more stable.
Or, if you change your mind in your 30s, you won't be trapped.
You've misunderstood my post. I do not want or not want children, I am not sure if I do, but if I ever plan on having (if my husband of course wants them) then I would prefer having them before turning 30.
And the reason I ask this is because, if I don't take the chance and marry him, I may not have any other chance to marry.
Why is having children a synonym for being trapped? Do you feel pride describing your children as a 'burden'?
>I may not have any other chance to marry.
It is irreversible. Read that again: IRREVERSIBLE. A LIFETIME commitment. Label that however you want, it shouldn't be taken on lightly, especially if OP is not sure if she wants any.
I know many women in their 20s who had children and more often than not, they are not happy with the decision and feel overwhelmed. Just anecdotes, of course, but it does color my opinion.
I do not have any children and am happy with my choice.
If he's kind but has a tiny or massive dick, no humor, no goal in life, shitty friends, no money etc.
How can even consider marriage after one date and apparently only one good personality trait?
My advice is to have fun at your age. If you come from a very traditional home, challenge yourself a bit.
Arranged marriage restricts you from living life and having fun at your age
And yes, if I decide to decline to marry this man, my parents will probably feel annoyed with me and I would have to provide a solid reason as to why I would not like to marry him. First of all, saying that our hobbies do not match is not a real reason to them. My mother provides me with how she got along with my father just well, saying that they have learned to live with both of them having an opposite personality to the other. So, my excuse does not work. And if say I decline, I may not have a chance at having a partner in my life.
It's just like that. The marriagable male pool I have is very small.
It's normal. My parents would like me to marry him soon, they have also allowed me to talk with him, but sooner or later I would have to marry him.
I come from a traditional home, and it's very hard to change that fact. My mother says that marriage will give me a better life than my current life.
Ok, but you can't possibly know a person after one meeting. That's just plain ridiculous. Even if I know someone for couple months I still find new things about her/his personality. Do you realize that he pulled the best act he could on that one date? Your perception of him is biased.
If your parents insist, then just go on more dates with that guy and find out whether he is or isn't fit to be your husband.
>If your parents insist, then just go on more dates with that guy and find out whether he is or isn't fit to be your husband.
Thank you user, this might surely help. Not only will I get to know more about whether we get along or not, it can give me more time to think how to counter my parents. And no, I had not realized that he was putting up an act.
>should I get married to a guy I've only seen once
No. It can't be worse than whoring around under the pretext of "dating" like the oh-so-enlightened Westerners here, but you should get to know the guy while waiting to have sex before you commit to him.
Unsubstantiated bullshit, and you should feel bad for posting it. No, the absolute divorce rate is dipping slightly because many people in the West don't even bother to get married in the first place. The relative divorce rate remains utterly abysmal, just like your so-called "advice" of not considering marriage until your youth is spent.
Not sure where all this anger is coming from, but here's the link that I read about this:
I think that waiting until you're more mature means a better success rate in marriage. And the article mentions this.
I make no bones about being strongly anti-marriage and I always discourage people (especially men) from marrying. But I try not to mislead people with fake stats.
no, live your own life while you have the chance or youll regret it. your parents dont have the right to tell you who to marry, stand up for yourself
I don't want kids, if I were forced to have kids against my will I would torment them into suicide out of sheer hate. Pieces of shit ruining my life and my time deserve to get beaten to death.
The anger comes from seeing meme-tier advice on marriage and sex all the time on this shit board. I apologize if it's misdirected, and you seem to care about statistics behind what you say.
That said, even your source has this:
>When I asked Andrew Cherlin, a sociology professor at Johns Hopkins University, how to make sense of this trend, he opened his explanation with something of a koan: “In order to get divorced,” he said, “you have to get married first.”
i.e. what I said. The drop, as reported in the article, was 8-18% depending on the controls used--but that's just overall, not controlling for specific factors like "maturity".
At best, your initial statement was misleading in its focus. Waiting longer to get married while freely sleeping around is far more destructive to relationship quality than marrying in your mid-20s after waiting to have sex. On that note, the ideal age to get married is in your mid-to-late-20s, after which any gains from "maturity" are negligible.
>tfw never had sex nor relationships with anyone until well into my 30s
>tfw met a man who worships me all the same
>tfw I'm fucking glad I listened to my mother who told me to wait until the right one and be happy alone rather than get married out of desperation just to regret it later
OP, I can tell you what my mama told me. Learn to be happy alone, and don't get married just to get married. Worked for me.
>tfw never had sex nor relationships with anyone until well into my 30s
Waiting until marriage to have sex is always good--if you manage to wait into your 30s because you haven't found the right person yet, you deserve nothing but praise. But if you already have waited until marriage and found someone worth marrying, only to hold off on actually getting married because you aren't 30-something years old, that's just impractical as a standard.
Seems stupid. Are you stupid? Do you have any other, if not better options? Like do you live somewhere acid will get thrown in your face when some shit kicker looks at you? What up's?
Just drown them shit. none of that psycho shit works. They'll just fuck you up in old age.
I satisfied myself masturbating to anime and reading gay porn fanfiction, lots of gay porn fanfiction. It wasn't difficult for me to wait since I wasn't interested in anyone real to begin with and the anime men I was interested in I knew I couldn't have sex with since they're not real, lol. I knew he was the right man for me when he said he was absolutely okay with all that
I accept your apology. But I definitely disagree with a lot of points you made.
Let's read further down in the article I posted:
>...college graduates tend to wait longer to get married as they focus on their career. And they tend to have the financial independence to postpone marriage until they’re more confident it will work. This has translated to lower rates of divorce: “If you’re older, you’re more mature … you probably have a better job, and those things make it less likely that you’ll get into arguments with your spouse,” Cherlin says.
And this validates my own experience and my previous statement. Waiting until you're older does contribute to a more stable marriage. In fact, I sometimes think that I should have waited longer, well into my 40s, to get married, if I would have even gotten married at all.
As for sex before marriage, I strongly agree with having multiple partners before marriage. Everyone deserves to have sexual experiences after they've come of a certain age, it's natural and not having it will just leave you stunted.
>Waiting until marriage to have sex is always good--if you manage to wait into your 30s because you haven't found the right person yet, you deserve nothing but praise.
You're almost sterile in this amazing plan of yours. No wonder the white birthrate is declining.
Yeah, whatever floats your boat. If somebody is more upset by yaoi than they are by being the town bicycle, they need a lobotomy.
> I sometimes think that I should have waited longer, well into my 40s, to get married
Keep saying shit like this and I'll have to rescind the apology, because it seems I was on point to begin with. This defeats the entire purpose of marriage if you're already borderline infertile as a woman.
>I strongly agree with having multiple partners before marriage.
This is also unsubstantiated bullshit, which is moreover one of the most singularly harmful things you can do to the odds of divorce.
>"I find that premarital sex or premarital cohabitation that is limited to a woman's husband is not associated with an elevated risk of marital disruption. However, women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship have an increased risk of marital dissolution."
>"Both structural equation and group comparison analyses demonstrated that sexual restraint was associated with better relationship outcomes, even when controlling for education, the number of sexual partners, religiosity, and relationship length."
Scroll up. I said the ideal age is mid-to-late-20s (historically this age wasn't uncommon--a quick search will show you even in medieval times it could go as high as 28, and rarely has it gone below 20 anywhere in the West), but while waiting until marriage. That gives you time to date several people for a few years each before deciding, but also preserves your youth without sacrificing too much stability gained from waiting even longer. However, if faced with the choice between fornicating and marrying at 25, or not and marrying at 30, the latter is far preferable. Age of marriage is less workable as a standard than behavior around marriage.
Yes, he is a catch, get married in the fall.
What if you have premarital sex with the man you end up marrying, how does that factor in?
>What if you have premarital sex with the man you end up marrying, how does that factor in?
It theoretically doesn't affect the marriage according to the first source posted, but it's an untenable standard. If you allow fornication on the basis that you *expect* to marry, then people will convince themselves that they will as an excuse to have sex--only for it to blow up in their faces.
That is to say, you will have a lot of people having sex before marriage, then breaking up, and now by default they will have at least 2 sexual partners, not one (their ex and their future spouse). Saving yourself for marriage means just that; you can break up without said baggage.
I dunno man, it's what I did and it worked out for me. After dating him for a while I knew he was trustworthy and honest so that was a green flag for me to cohabitate and sleep with him, but I wasn't going to marry him without being sure I liked him in bed as well as an everyday partner. There's too many things you cannot know about a person unless you live with them and those things can destroy a marriage if they discover them later on when it's too late. Nobody wants to stay in a bad marriage. I think you're just going to get the divorce rate spiking again with that attitude.
Can you please stop using Jewish words
That's anecdotal evidence which isn't worth anything to a society (or, for that matter, OP)--cohabitation has consistently shown to AT BEST be ineffectual towards marital success, while in general cohabitating couples divorce more often (even where they bother to get married in the first place). Dating someone for a couple years will tell you almost everything you need to know, and what you don't can always be discussed without action. There's even less excuse nowadays because we have genetic testing that can detect major marital stresses like infertility, if that's very important to one of you.
>Nobody wants to stay in a bad marriage.
Nobody should get into a bad marriage, and yet people do so much more frequently when they fornicate and cloud their judgement on a person by confusing sexual with personal attraction. Divorce is a last resort (and having divorced previously is unsurprisingly another massive risk factor in subsequent divorces), not something to be banked on to justify poor choices in the present.
Look, one of my parents is a divorcee who remarried, and neither of them waited. They've been happily married for decades with no end in sight. That means little--you can find winners of Russian Roulette with 5/6 chambers loaded, you can find winners with just one loaded, neither changes the ultimate rate of survival for the respective behavior. I can show you the story of a 'reformed' prostitute and drug addict who got married and had kids, that doesn't mean becoming a cokehead prostitute is a good idea.
It's not a concept restricted to Judaism. The word itself comes from Latin, and was coined in its present meaning in the 14th century. What it refers to is a standard which not only demonstrably works, but is also present to varying degrees in Buddhism, Hinduism, and multiple Chinese philosophies. Because, you know, it works.
Society isn't worth anything to me since it's my life that is affected and not society's, therefore I do what is best for me, and I intend to teach my children the same. Society can go to hell. I never cared much for getting married, I was okay with cohabitating my whole life with the right man as that's what the actual marriage relationship is, not the ring or the piece of paper. However I would never have accepted a marriage without cohabitating first. Cohabitating was best for me as it helped me cemented my judgement, so I stand by what I did and not your statistics, since your statistics did nothing for me, my own ideas did.
>Dating someone for a couple years will tell you almost everything you need to know
No it will not. It will not tell me all the unconscious habits I have or he has that neither of us ever even noticed until the other pointed it out. It will not tell me everything he or I take for granted while the other does not, and that could become a source of conflict when found out. It will not tell me if I actually like his touch sexually or I'm repulsed by it. Anyone who claims bullshit like that is a liar. All I can say is I'm glad I did things my way and never listened to the likes of you.
>Society isn't worth anything to me
You live in it all the same, and it's folly to pretend that statistics from across a society don't apply to you because you're just that special. Your "advice" is using personal experience, which may or may not be valid even for you, and giving it in direct contradiction to demonstrated trends. I obviously can't convince you that you made the wrong decision, but to apply your suggestions to society in general is purely idiotic because they do not work as well as waiting does.
>Society can go to hell.
It already has, and you're part of that decay. An unwillingness to adhere to standards out of hubris and willful ignorance.
>No it will not
This is something very common in psychology, where an individual rationalizes their decision after the fact (choice-supportive bias). You listed a bunch of things that you either can find through observation (there is a wide gap between "not fucking/cohabitating" and "being in complete isolation from each other"), or in the case of being 'repulsed' your partner's touch, complete nonsense that would require you to be mentally ill.
Also note how I said "almost" everything. Waiting until marriage isn't a panacea for relationship problems. But it is demonstrably better than the alternative of not waiting, and this isn't something up for debate, as the statistics show.
>it's folly to pretend that statistics from across a society don't apply to you
But they don't, not in the way you want. I had sex before marriage, married the guy I had sex with, and now we're in the statistic of happy stable marriages. You would have never even thought that possible.
>I obviously can't convince you that you made the wrong decision
You're trying to convince me that I made the wrong decision by marrying the man I knew I am happy to live with and that has amply demonstrated he loves me and is happy with me, too? Dude, you're an idiot.
>to apply your suggestions to society in general is purely idiotic because they do not work as well as waiting does
In my experience waiting only works until you find the right guy, then sex before marrying to make sure you are right for each other. It would have been purely idiotic for me to jump blindly into marriage and regret it because I hated having sex with him.
>You listed a bunch of things that you either can find through observation
Observation in a 24/7 proximity, aka cohabitating.
>you're part of that decay
>happy marriages are part of the decay
Well dude, sounds like this decay is good, I'd hate to be stuck in an unhappy marriage.
>or in the case of being 'repulsed' your partner's touch, complete nonsense
Now that's bullshit. At that stage one is not a partner, only a candidate. And yes, if when he touched or kissed me, I found it completely disgusting for me, I would not have wanted to be with that person, and I would have divorced if by some idiotic reason I had trapped myself in a marriage. He became a partner only after he proved sexually compatible with me. My aunt made the mistake of marrying a guy she never has sex with before, she hated it everytime he had sex with her, it was like rape. She hated him. Their marriage was an absolute shitshow. Fuck that.
>this isn't something up for debate
Yes it is. I am the proof of it.
>But they don't
You're singularly retarded.
> You would have never even thought that possible.
How delusional can you get? I gave the most exaggerated example I could think of, a literal prostitute being happily married. That's not an argument for prostitution, nor is your marriage an argument for cohabitation. I know full well it's possible, but that is absolutely not interchangeable with "best". It's not, and you would do well to understand it.
I can't change your decision, but you have zero basis (yes, zero, because anecdotal 'evidence' isn't evidence any more than an incel is credible in calling all women "shallow whores" by referring to his one past rejection) to encourage others like OP to make a statistically subpar choice. You have your past and your opinions, but they have no place in a thread asking for advice, because you're plainly wrong.
>You're trying to convince me that I made the wrong decision by marrying the man I knew I am happy to live with and that has amply demonstrated he loves me and is happy with me, too?
Yes. If a general makes a tactical error but still wins the battle, it does not change the fact he made an error. Telling someone they'd be better off investing their money than gambling with it is still true even if that person goes on to win the jackpot. Why? Because across society, the set of everyone doing the particular activity, the results are demonstrably AGAINST gambling, which is designed for the sole purpose that the house always wins. It is no different with your situation.
Maybe go on another date.
I've heard before girl/s saying that they wouldn't have minded being arranged for marriage and they would even prefer it to the current odd fucked up hookup culture.
The ancestors in my family who were arranged all worked out well and grew deeply in love over time.
I'm thinking about entering one myself.
At least I don't need to beat around the bush and can focus on just finding someone compatible that matches my values. Most likely gonna go with my religious match maker.
>jump blindly into marriage
That's why you wait several years.
>Observation in a 24/7 proximity, aka cohabitating.
Lunacy. Any habits so minor as to require constant, prolonged surveillance to detect like you suggest are going to be so minor as to make you the primary source of instability, not the supposed problem. Such minor things could easily be talked over within marriage (or, if you're really paranoid, prior to it). Major problems tend to be that way in visibility, too--if a guy is a murderous psychopath, it doesn't take nightly fucking to figure it out. It just means you let yourself get fucked by a murderous psychopath.
If you're the type of person to consider it a marriage-ending problem if your spouse doesn't dial down the thermostat by 3.5 degrees each night, you are the one with an issue, not them.
>>happy marriages are part of the decay
Talk about a strawman. No, the idea that cohabitating and premarital sex is good for marriage is the decay. If everyone waited until marriage, a higher proportion of marriages would be successful than if everyone fornicated. What is so bloody difficult to understand?
>if when he touched or kissed me, I found it completely disgusting for me, I would not have wanted to be with that person
First of all, this is just bizarre to date a person and be completely fine until they touch you. That's not mentally healthy. Secondly, no sex means no sex. I don't know where you got the idea that you can't even hold hands.
> My aunt made the mistake of marrying a guy she never has sex with before
That's not a mistake in itself, and I feel sorry for her. Still anecdotal and still irrelevant.
>Yes it is. I am the proof of it.
Well, thanks for blowing up your own argument. Your experience "proves" nothing. You have no understanding of even the most basic logic and statistics, and moreover you're proud of it. You can't possibly have anything useful to say on this matter.
>not in the way you want
You're a liar if you claim otherwise.
>I gave the most exaggerated example I could think of
A bullshit example. And yes, my marriage is an argument for cohabitation as cohabitation is what made my marriage possible.
>that is absolutely not interchangeable with "best"
It is best for me, and as far I'm concerned, that's all that matters. It's my life to live, not anyone else's. And so does OP. It's her life therefore it's her right to make the best choices for her, even if they contradict your statistics.
Well dude, I disagree. It wasn't a tactical error; it was a conscious decision that made the entire outcome possible, without it there would have never been not outcome at all. I don't care what happens across society as I am not the rest of society, I am myself and what the rest of society does wrong 100 times, I can do right, therefore any mistakes other people do, do not affect me in any way. And I know my situation is not unique either, so your comparison with gambling doesn't hold water, as the house has lost too many times for something that is designed for the sole purpose to win.
Your mother is bias. If you DO end up marrying someone that you don't know very well and don't share a lot in common with, at least be the one to pick him out. Go out and find an older rich man that YOU want. But of course my advice would be to not do that at all and just say not to your parents. This is a man you will have to be attached to for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. You can divorce later if you'd like but that would be wasting your youth.
>That's why you wait several years
Several years of no cohabitation and no sex mean nothing. If for any reason I find out I don't like living with someone or I don't like having sex with them, the marriage is over.
>are going to be so minor
I decide what's minor and what isn't. Something that's minor to you may not be to me, and something that's minor the first few times may become major after multiple iterations, simply because it grates on me and I have no more patience for it. Talking only solves so much, and I prefer not to waste time with someone I don't like. Anyone is free not to be with me if they don't like me and my requirements.
>the idea that cohabitating and premarital sex is good for marriage is the decay
As I said, if that's decay then decay is a good thing, because it's worked for me. But it isn't.
>If everyone waited until marriage, a higher proportion of marriages would be successful
Everyone waited until marriage before divorce was possible, divorce still exploded because it was nothing but a bunch of shitty, disgusting, horrible relationships forced to exist against people's wishes. Ironically a higher proportion of marriages is successful now because people aren't forced to get married in the first place. As I said, if you're going to force people to get married to have sex, you're only going to get the divorce rates spike again, more and more people will hate it and regret their decision as they did in the past.
>this is just bizarre
Why? Dating is merely talking one-on-one and doing non-sexual activities together. I can talk to anybody. Doesn't mean I want to marry them.
> I don't know where you got the idea that you can't even hold hands
Sexual touch is different from normal touch. I may not like it when he kisses me, I may not like the way he touches me sexually. I have no problem holding hands with a friend, it doesn't mean I'm not disgusted should they try anything more than that.
>That's not a mistake in itself
Yes it is. Has she had sex with him before getting stuck in shitty marriage, she would have known she hated being touched by him, and not gotten herself in a shitty marriage in the first place. She regretted it all her life. Is that what you want for OP?
>Your experience "proves" nothing
It proves your bullshit absolutes can be and are dead wrong.
>I am a female
You literally only gain by marrying.
Billions miserable unhappy wives across the globe would like a word with you.
brainlets with stockholm syndrome and/or femoids living in thirdworld shitholes.
Any whore being miserable in a marriage, living in the West is "suffering" because she wants to.
Maybe she stupidly listened to people who told her to wait until marriage only to find out she hates having sex with her husband and never wants to have sex with him anymore, and hates being stuck in a sexless marriage too.
>Maybe she stupidly listened to people who told her to wait until marriage
Literally the opposite, you seething imbecile.
>Bivariate results suggested that delaying sexual involvement was associated with higher relationship quality across several dimensions. The multivariate results indicated that the speed of entry into sexual relationships was negatively associated with marital quality, but only among women."
>"measures of subjective well-being indicate that women's happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men. The paradox of women's declining relative well-being is found across various datasets, measures of subjective well-being, and is pervasive across demographic groups and industrialized countries. Relative declines in female happiness have eroded a gender gap in happiness in which women in the 1970s typically reported higher subjective well-being than did men."
>inb4 "nothing but ME matters" narcissism
>If I had known that she was going to refuse me 95% of the time, I would have never married her
Meanwhile in the real world
>For me it wasn’t that difficult to wait and I felt like I HAD to for religious reasons. However, I would definitely not recommend it. Sexual compatibility is important in a relationship. When you wait until marriage you’re stuck. Take it from me, please learn from my mistake. Don’t wait until marriage.
>Waiting for marriage to have sex is not the choice for people who want to have a mind-blowing, intimate, mutually fulfilling sexual relationship. It is the right choice for people who prioritise their relationship with their deity of choice over worldly pleasures and relationships. It's similar to the choice to become a nun or priest - you're essentially sacrificing your own wants and needs out of duty to some higher authority.
>If those are your values, then go for it. But do it with your eyes open.
>It was the first of many really bad decisions I have made. Thought I was doing the right thing, boy was I wrong. That decision is still a source of frustration between us. She is very upset with both of our kids because neither of them waited until marriage and she is really mad because I don’t back her up when she gets on their case about it. I’m sure both of my kids know the state of our marriage even though we don’t talk about it. To make such a big life decision with no information about it is just plain ignorance. I wish I knew this a long time ago.
>No. Don't recommend it at all. Stupid IMHO.
>I think the advice to not wait until marriage is probably sound I guess. But as most people here can attest, past behavior is no guarantee of future behavior, especially when it comes to sex. How many people have posted something like ‘when we met the sex was great and now nothing.....’.
>Perhaps the best insurance against a DB is to never marry or live with your sexual partner.
And etc. etc. etc.
>another fucking anecdote
>unironically linking to reddit
You're not helping your case at all. Go ahead, find a statistically valid study showing that waiting until marriage is bad for divorce. You won't find it because you're full of shit, but then again I have a feeling you know enough to avoid searching for something that will break your delusion.
>another fucking anecdote
Multiple anedoctes. That piled together stop being anecdotes and become a trend, seething imbecile.
>find a statistically valid study showing that waiting until marriage is bad for divorce
The fuck are you smoking? Waiting until marriage is bad for marriage as all the people in dead bedrooms that hate their marriages and regret waiting show. Divorce is the cure for that. Divorce is a good thing. Not all divorce especially if there are kids involved but that doesn't they think their marriage is good. Remember what I told you about people being stuck in shitty, disgusting, horrible relationships?
>your life experiences are not valid if they don't align with my ideas of life experiences, you don't exist
No user, that's not how it works.
>shorter than me
Your parents hate you
>Multiple anedoctes. That piled together stop being anecdotes
Jesus Christ. You should be stickied on Jow Forums to replace their chart of logical fallacies.
>that's not how it works.
Correct! Maybe you're making progress in understanding, hard as it may be for your feeble intellect.
Neither of our individual experiences mean anything compared to aggregate data in determining the best-supported course of action. If you can collect a representative sample, avoid selection bias, and establish proper controls, then you are getting somewhere, but going to a fucking reddit thread about "dead bedrooms" is completely useless. I'm tempted to spam the thread with equally-useless anecdotes to prove a point, but I think even the most determined of hedonists who otherwise agree with you will recognize you're a drooling retard when it comes to forming arguments.
That's not how it works was referred to your thinking, retard.
And I'm talking about the multiple experiences listed here and in many other posts in that sub, experiences of multiple who regret waiting until marriage and consider it a dumb mistake that ruined their lives. That's the aggregate data, retard.
>going to a fucking reddit thread about "dead bedrooms" is completely useless
It's a whole sub, 165.000 people who hate their dead marriages. Most of whom were virgins before marrying, still hate their marriage and hate their spouses and regret what they did. You only call that useless because you hate people proving you wrong. Fuck you for wanting to force OP into a horrifying situation like that too.
>It's a whole sub, 165.000 people who hate their dead marriages. Most of whom were virgins before marrying, still hate their marriage and hate their spouses
Definitely a representative sample! I applaud your scientific acumen.
Unfortunately you're not only distorting the general population by pointing to a reddit thread devoted to those with marital problems, but you're also making erroneous and unfounded statements of the composition of the subset. You found a single thread within the subreddit about those who waited, i.e. a further biased subset from which you concluded some nonsense about another biased subset of the population.
Here, from your favorite site (Lord forgive me for going there):
>"I have a good number of friends who also have all waited until marriage for sex, and none of them have been "sexually incompatible" as people often cite as a reason for not waiting. The truth is, if you both are open, honest, and selfless with your approach to sex, there's really nothing to be worried about."
>"Both my wife and I were virgins when we got married. No wacky stories. Just a lot of fun. No regrets what so ever."
>"Short answer, it was awkward yet absolutely wonderful. We look back on our first time and laugh about it, because it was weird, but it was an intimate moment that we will remember forever.Do I regret waiting? Absolutely not."
Such proofs, many wow, much excite.
You're a waste of matter.
From your thread
>I wouldn't say regret, but it's definitely something I advocate against. If two people never have sex until they are legally contracted to only have it with each other, they are gambling on the chance they'll be sexually compatible.
>If two people have different sex drives, they need to discover that prior to , essentially, signing their life to someone else.
>Oh god yes. By far the worst relationship of my life. The pressure to wait was a major driving factor in a too early marriage. When the horrible and painful divorce came a few years later I finally had freedom. My life got much better after that.
>Tldr: Don't wait!!
>I waited. We were sexually incompatible in lots of ways. I 100% regret waiting.
>Looks like I'm in the minority here, but my husband and I waited for religious reasons (we are no longer religious). I regret missing out on the experience of being intimate with someone other than him, mostly from an anthropological view. What would it be like? How would it have shaped my life now? We have a great sex life. I'll never get that experience and it bums me out.
>Absolutely regret - so much of life and opportunities to share it wasted by "waiting".
>I ended up on the more negative side of the scope. The sex was fine...when we had it...but we definitely had incompatible libidos. I felt unwanted for years and it was definitely a factor in why I decided that I wanted a divorce. I often wish I had done it sooner but I felt too guilty about doing it because of feeling like a failure and letting my children down.
Are you ignoring these people because they contradict your bullshit worldview?
>a reddit thread
It's a sub devoted to those with marital problems. Marital problems stemmed by bullshit ideas like sexual compatibility doesn't matter, which you peddle. There's nothing biased about people telling your advice did not work for them at all, in fact it harmed them. something you refuse to admit.
>Are you ignoring these people because they contradict your bullshit worldview?
My God, you still don't get it? How obvious do I have to make my sarcastic disdain, you unthinking vermin?
>It's a sub devoted to those with marital problems
Precisely. If I go to a sub devoted to successfully waiting until marriage, it would not be a valid source, either.
>There's nothing biased about people telling your advice did not work for them at all
Simply telling others? No, that's not biased. Saying it and pretending it has weight across a society? That's sloppy and faulty reasoning, and I highly recommend you read this en.wikipedia.org
>"Researchers may use anecdotal evidence for suggesting new hypotheses, but never as validating evidence."
>"Anecdotal evidence is often unscientific or pseudoscientific because various forms of cognitive bias may affect the collection or presentation of evidence."
>"In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer""
Even for a borderline-illiterate monkey such as yourself, this plainly states your so-called "evidence" is useless. Get off your imaginary pedestal of self-worth and wallow like the human garbage you are.
I'm actually curious, can you take this and post results for me: test.mensa.no
This is a very fascinating cognitive impairment you have going. I sadly have to go to sleep, but I'll be sure to check your response later.
What the fuck? Give it a few years before marriage you crazy bitch. If its mutual only then should you marry.
In any case she's marrying a pajeet who's shorter than her. Sex will most likely suck anyway. I would run if I were you
It does have a weight across society since social norms are shaped by how they impact people, and if people are negatively impacted by being forced to wait until marriage to have sex, people are going to protest against that social norm and change society so they're not harmed by it anymore. That's how divorce was made legal, that's why we don't persecute people who have sex before marriage anymore. Because people have pointed out to us what we thought worked did not work for them at all, and we were only hurting them in the process. Pretending negative experiences to your advice have no weight across society only opens the way to oppression. I know you'd love to oppress people but I don't.
You keep claiming this is just anedoctal evidence and OP shouldn't listen to it, but the truth is, it's people drawn from an array of backgrounds who all share the same pattern, marital problems stemmed by sexual incompatibility. That's already a valid case for a study, idiot. I hope OP never ends up one of them.
I divorced my ex-wife because I didn't like having sex with her, ask me anything.
>That's already a valid case for a study
Those studies have been made; I posted some of them here, which you ignored in favor of anecdotes, since the studies showed quite clearly that waiting is beneficial. That you would even pretend to care about scientifically valid studies at this point is incomprehensible. I'll link them again:
I have engaged with some infuriatingly stupid people on my time here, but you blow them out of the water when it comes to the sheer level of self-important drivel coming out of you. And you genuinely believe it!
>Those studies have been made
No they haven't. None of the links posted itt check for sexual incompatibility in a marriage and people's dissatisfaction with it. No one has yet made such a study at all it seems, yet sexual incompatibility is a recognized problem in marriage and a leading cause for divorce. Waiting was not beneficial to these people.
>sexual incompatibility in a marriage and people's dissatisfaction with it
*and the impossibility to check for it by being made to wait before marriage.
>he thinks a shit marriage is better than a divorce
High divorce rates are good. Means people are not forced to stay in shitty marriages.
Dont listen to this middle class roasty whore ass white bitch
Be sensible and find out if this man can care for and support a family. If not tell this to your mother.
But dont listen to the degenerate wine aunt welfare recipient trying to lead you astray.