My father gets easily mad over small things. Last night...

How old are you?

I'm 22

Get out bro!

I'm literally torn in 2 options man. I could stay and help him and the family out financially because he's the breadwinner of the family (I work with him as a roofing helper so that he won't hire someone else due to our inconsistent work schedule, we're looking to change this soon and make an actual business).

And on the other end I want to leave to start my own life because I'm tired of him treating me like shit whenever he gets mad. And it's always for stupid shit. i.e. calling me a retarded piece of shit off the top of his lungs while at work because I can't find the correct tool or screw.

There is more but this is OPs thread.

OP here, This sounds just like my dad. Exactly like him when we work. Because of it he usually works alone.

Fucking boomers. Like life was so hard in the 50s 60s.

College was 500 a semester.

And to top off their stupidity all they want to eat is fried chicken, potatoes, and pizza.

Are you psychic or something? All my father eats is junk food. Refuses to eat anything healthy or well prepared.

>Funny you say that since he doesn't really have any friends. Sometimes I see a lot of what's wrong with me in him and both of us want to prevent that and I still feel sometimes that he cares but even if he cares, I shouldn't just chain myself to him and work around him to keep him happy.
He then probably leans more on the borderline side, but don't let him know that cause they tend to go off the rails. Sometimes they'll have emotions, but it usually escalates pretty quickly when it's negative. The hot-cold can variate quickly, and come across as unreasonable. They're also very good at faking emotions to loop you back into their dysfunctional dynamics. This is called hoovering.

This stuff is basically ingrained into his head due to early childhood trauma. It doesn't necessarily have to be something major, but can be a combination of incidents, or possibly having a genetic predisposition for it that got switched on when the trauma occurred. This is called secondary psychopathy.

>I'm 22
You really do need to leave. At this age, your brain is still forming - usually stops forming at age 26 or so. That means you still have some time to form new habits, like being independent from your parents and know this isn't normal behavior. If you continue sticking around, the harder it'll be to unlearn that stuff later in life.

Like most borderlines, his greatest fear is probably being abandoned. So don't be surprised he'll try to convince you to stay, or lash out. He may hoover you months to years later to move back. Don't be convinced.

That's what I meant with my post, sounds like my dad except slight differences. You're 22, I'm 30. My dad was forced to work from the age of 4, he was beat up constantly by his dad, physically and mentally tortured by his dad, one time his head was cracked open by my grandpa after hitting him consistently with a rod. Then when my grandpa noticed it was cracked he pulled my dad to his side to pour hydrogen peroxide and stitch his head on the spot.

That doesn't excuse the mental scars he's given me, affecting my ability to socialize with people properly and limiting my growth socially because I was so afraid of pissing people off because everything came back to how my dad treated me. He's a lot better now than how he was back when I was 22 but it took a lot of speaking 1 on 1 sessions to get him to understand that he shouldn't be treating people like me.

The worst thing he's ever told me was that I was the reason he didn't believe in god when I was having trouble holding a 2"x6" in the side of a house.

"want to know why I don't believe in God? because you exist." easily trumps all the shit he's put me through in public.

This sounds very interesting and I think I'll read more on it later. What you're saying makes sense though and makes me have sympathy for my mom. Ingrained since childhood... He did have a lot of incidents as a child that could be described as traumatic. I can only hope the same doesn't happen to me. I do show some of the same behavior (introversion, antisocial, trust issues, etc)

I wish I could move out but I'm not financially stable. I work part time and used to work full-time are professional job but it was a contract to hire so they threw me out when my contract ended. Haven't been able to find a solid job since but even if I did idk if I'd be able to afford living alone.

Maybe I should try renting an apartment with a friend. Maybe then I could get a good feel for life outside their grasp and start thinking about how I can improve myself and what direction I want to take in life. Thanks user.
That sounds painful. Sorry to hear that user. My father's childhood was similar but probably not as painful.

It's amazing how much he affects my personality and social life considering how antisocial I am and how I've always had trouble bonding with other people.

>The worst thing he's ever told me was that I was the reason he didn't believe in god when I was having trouble holding a 2"x6" in the side of a house.
Jesus. I'm not encouraging violence here, but I can see why someone would get beat up for saying that.

>I wish I could move out but I'm not financially stable.
You never will be, but that's kind of comes with the territory of being an adult.
He'll definitely play on your fear of not being financially stable to keep you staying. I wouldn't be surprised if he underpays you, so you don't become financially independent. Of course, expect being called ungrateful.

>Maybe I should try renting an apartment with a friend. Maybe then I could get a good feel for life outside their grasp and start thinking about how I can improve myself and what direction I want to take in life.
You don't even need a friend, but that might be a good thing if you can. You can also look for a brand new roommate. As long as they pay their bills, don't do anything to get you evicted, and doesn't cause you problems then why not? I don't see it getting much worse, seeing the alternative is living with your dad.

I think I will try that. Ngl, not having the security of a sweetheart apartment deal and the utilities being paid is a bit nerve-racking, but necessary. Idk how I'll be able to rent out without a friend to back be up so I think I'll do that until I have a good, solid job. About the hoovering, I've never seen my dad do it before but I guess it's possible.

A bit off topic but I can still remember this one time when I was 12 playing on my DS after bedtime. My dad came into my room and I pretended to sleep. He began shouting at me to get up and when I didn't he cried and cried and kept asking me (or himself) "I'm a bad father aren't I? You deserve so much better than me. I'm shit".

That moment still keeps me up sometimes, wondering what he meant by that and why he feels so bad about himself.

My dad was physically abused and then spent a couple decades on meth and never stopped being an alcoholic. This sounds like something he would do, except there is very little love between us. It seems like you actually have a loving bond between you.

I don't think much is going to get better in its own. Therapy would be really good for him and you, but it is hard to get people to go. If you are having trouble I think you should consider it, it might encourage him to go as well

That was my point.
Sounds like someone is just as stupid as their father.

>What you're saying makes sense though and makes me have sympathy for my mom.
I missed this part earlier. Be vary careful with your mother. They usually have their own set of problems. They're usually codependent in some way. Don't be surprised if she conspires against you in some way and sabotages you later.

>About the hoovering, I've never seen my dad do it before but I guess it's possible.
It tends to happen after you leave. It'll also happen if he thinks you'll reduce contact with him, since they usually crave attention. Think of the classic honeymoon phase a domestic violence abuser has with their significant other after going to jail, but without the violence or jail.

>A bit off topic but I can still remember this one time when I was 12 playing on my DS after bedtime. My dad came into my room and I pretended to sleep. He began shouting at me to get up and when I didn't he cried and cried and kept asking me (or himself) "I'm a bad father aren't I? You deserve so much better than me. I'm shit".
Sounds like classic borderline drama. Hot and cold, having a dysfunctional inverted parent-child relationship, fear of abandonment, passive aggressive, etc.

>That moment still keeps me up sometimes, wondering what he meant by that and why he feels so bad about himself.
He was probably messed up as a kid, and it's now hardwired into his brain. Part of it is probably a mind game to keep you around thinking about him, and him wanting you to become codependent (e.g. you're asking why, and want to help him). I don't know what the percentages that make up each one though.

At this point, you need to stop asking why when it comes to his individual history. You need to take care of yourself first. Cause at this rate, you probably won't thrive in an environment with your dad working and living with him. That dynamic will just make your life worse if you continue.

Sabotages me? That sounds nothing like her, even though she is an OCD control freak. Maybe she would. Quite shocking desu

Also, my dad hates attention. Or at least he says he does. Never stops talking about how he hates the limelight and how he just wants to live his life unnoticed and undisturbed.

Sadly borderline sounds very accurate with his behavior. I do have some doubts regarding the need for attention but I could be wrong. Is it possible for him to simultaneously want attention and not want it? He's never explicitly asked for attention before. Maybe he's acted like a child crying for attention but he's never said anything like "please give me the attention I deserve" or anything. Like I said most of the time he wants to be left alone.

>Sabotages me? That sounds nothing like her...
It's in the range of possibility, but not for certain. If it is sabotaging, it could be as simple as mentioning to your father your intention to move out when promising you to keep it a secret. Not the extreme sabotaging of stealing your money type situation.

>Also, my dad hates attention. Or at least he says he does. Never stops talking about how he hates the limelight and how he just wants to live his life unnoticed and undisturbed.
Maybe attention is the wrong word, cause it wasn't specific enough. They really hate being alone. being ignored by certain people, and not being validated by certain people - though it'll never be enough for them. Him professing to be a shit parent may be true, but saying it serves the purpose to put the focus back on him. It also makes him look like the victim.

Some borderlines don't necessarily crave being in the lime light, cause that can lead to criticism which is something they tend to hate. Other borderlines will use certain venues as an outlet when they're not getting the attention from their inner circle (e.g. family), assuming they have an inner circle. So they'll turn to teachers, music/drama performances, etc. to get that attention.

>Maybe he's acted like a child crying for attention
That's cause they're usually on the extreme ends. They're either at a 0-2/10 or an 8-10/10. There's very little in-between.

For example, lets say a parent has a infant child who drops a glass and it breaks. The normal reaction for the parent to have would be, "Whoops, that's okay. Lets get you another glass." A parent with borderline personality disorder would probably scream and call their kid stupid. Then five-minutes later pretend nothing happened.

>Like I said most of the time he wants to be left alone.
Yes, being left alone when he wants to be left alone. He has options for contact at his leisure.

Or trying to guilt trip me into staying.
You're spot on again. I tend to forget about it but now that you're mentioning wanting validation from certain people, it makes sense that he always wants people outside our family to see us in a good light. He does it a lot in church or at parties. He hates it when either me or mom embarrasses him or does something he considers not appropriate. He's not totally strict about it but it's always there.

>Normal reaction for the parent to have would be, "whoops, that's okay. Let's get you another glass." A parent with borderline personality disorder would probably scream and call their kid stupid
Some of the strongest memories I have as a child with him are when he was screaming at me for something as small as dropping a glass or not wanting to eat a certain food. It sucks because I'm certain we had good memories before but the strongest memories I have with him as a child are just that.

I still can't believe how spot-on you are about my father. I've never considered it before he probably does have borderline personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder, or both.

It's nice being able to notice these things and talk about them. I've tried talking about it with relatives and my mother but they all just say the same "he is what he is" crap.
I'm still kind of worried about him and the relationship I'll have with him when I grow up and eventually have a family of my own, but that's far away. For now, I ought to focus on acting on my own, getting out of my old habits, and just being happy with my own life. I'm sure I'll thank myself later on for acting on my own and becoming something I want to become instead of staying in my old, terrible habits around them.

[1/2]
>He does it a lot in church or at parties. He hates it when either me or mom embarrasses him or does something he considers not appropriate. He's not totally strict about it but it's always there.
That's compartmentalization which is common with borderlines, and Cluster B type personalities. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have actual friends, or friends that come over to your house frequently. Cause doing so would risk tarnishing his reputation with others. Also, he may realize that having friends, I mean actual friends not coworkers, will eventually lead to him screwing it up so he'll avoid having them. Exposing a borderline for what they are to everyone, and those people actually believing in it is something they really fear. The same can be said for Cluster B types, and especially narcissists.

>I've never considered it before he probably does have borderline personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder, or both.
It's possible, but unlikely. If he lies, cheats, steals, and breaks the law with absolute no regard for anyone's emotions then it's possible he may have Antisocial Personality Disorder. Basically, Antisocial Personality Disorder is more of a comical non-emotional criminal psychopath, not avoiding all contact mental condition.

>I'm still kind of worried about him
You can still worry about him, it's only natural but don't let it limit your outcomes. For example, if you won't leave cause you're worried your father will kill himself if you leave, then more the reason to leave.

[2/2]
>and the relationship I'll have with him when I grow up
You're 22. I hate to break it to you, but you're grown up for the most part. You're basically being controlled by being emotionally stunted and limited, so he can control you for his selfish emotional reasons.

Here's the good news about being grown up. It means you don't have to take that kind of abuse, in the sense the police would drive you back to your house against your will. You have a lot more power being 22.

>eventually have a family of my own
That's a natural feeling for most parents. They want to be better than their parents were, and not to repeat the mistakes of their parents. Definitely don't feel like you'll mess up like your parents, but improving yourself is always good. The fact you're able to suspect this isn't normal behavior, examine for what it is, and want to improve is always a good sign.

>but that's far away.
Exactly. The sooner you move out and keep your father at a safe distance, the better your chances are.

>For now, I ought to focus on acting on my own, getting out of my old habits, and just being happy with my own life. I'm sure I'll thank myself later on for acting on my own and becoming something I want to become instead of staying in my old, terrible habits around them.
That's a good mindset to have. After you move out, you might want to get some therapy. Good luck user, stay strong.

The sooner you move out, the better.

He has his childhood friends he seems to like being around but they love far away and he only See's them once or twice a year. I believe those are his only genuine friends, but even then he doesn't like it when we cross the line and embarrass him in front of his friends. Of course the "line" varies sometimes.

I see. Than he probably isn't antisocial PD. The only reason I'd be hesitant to leave is leaving my parents alone and defenseless. What will they do when someone sticks them up? They're in their 50's. I guess whatever happens happens right?
True. I have the power to move out, be myself, etc. They don't have custody over me. I am my own person, for better or for worse. Thanks. I can only hope I'll be a good father. Well, I shouldn't hope. Of course I will. I wouldn't let myself not be.

I will, and thank you for all the advice and knowledge you've given me. I'll consider talking to a therapist, I haven't heard too many good things about therapists on Jow Forums or irl, but it might be worth a shot. I myself still struggle with depression, loneliness, emotional problems, trust issues, bad habits, etc. (I'm not the best at processing or understanding emotions or bonding with people), so therapist could probably help me get out of that rut once I do move out. Thanks again user.

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You have to move out. I understand you care about your dad, but you can't change him, you're neither his saviour nor a therapist and nothing will change unless he wants it to.

I don't know OP, at some point it's not about shitty childhood anymore. I emphatize with people with bad upbringing, but I also believe you should be able to rise above it. My boyfriend had an awful childhood and was raised by actual unloving narcissists, yet he's the most kind and loving person I know. Your father is an asshole and there's probably not much you can do about it.