I'm willing to put in effort but have no idea where to even start.
When anons here say 'put in effort!' in order to not be lonely/live life, what do they mean?
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You might think you are, but once the demands start rolling in, you'll cave in. Stop hoping, stop dreaming, stop loving.
good relationships involve both parties putting in effort, and nobody tells women to put in effort because of the 'women are wonderful' effect
so just ignore this shit "advice" and focus on other ways to make your life better. start putting effort into making money, for instance. it doesn't buy happiness, but enough of it will buy a lot of what you want
>where to even start.
Quit fucking around on the computer all the time
1. Clean your living space.
2. Get fit.
3. Work on your appearance.
4. Educate yourself.
5. Make money.
I will tell you where to start if you describe your current situation in detail.
Start going to the gym and stick with it. That's the best thing you can start with.
Then force yourself to do things outside your comfort zone.
Things that have no downside and insanely good cost/benefit ratios:
1. Workout out.
2. Sleeping 8 hours.
3. Cutting out all sugar.
4. Limiting masturbation to 30 minutes a day or less.
5. Never being dirty/unkempt in public (not saying you have to dress well, just brushed teeth, no dirt on clothing, clothing not extremely wrinkled/clean).
>and nobody tells women to put in effort
Except all of society from birth. And when women do put in the effort of looking good for make-up and clothes you got a bunch of crazy incels being mad and posting frogs about it because they think it's false advertising or whatever.
Make up is not self improvement, it's the complete opposite.
putting paint on a wall isn't an improvement?
There's good but not totally on-topic advice in this thread, stuff like being educated and getting money is good for you but it won't get you a girlfriend. In fact we see threads like that all the time >I GRADUATED AT THE TOP OF MY CLASS WITH A AN IQ OF 567 AND I MAKE 900K A YEAR WHERE IS MY GIRLFRIEND WHY DON'T I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND I HAVE MET ALL THE GIRLFRIEND PARAMETERS THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE
There is really no secret to it:
1. Be good at life.
Of course, those two can be infinitely complicated, but that's all there is to it at a very high level. I am:
you could just post with a name or tripcode instead of replying to yourself and identifying which posts are yours you know
>Thinks pointless vanity is self improvement
I guess I can namefag for this thread.
There is a line. Being presentable is not pointless vanity. There is excessive makeup, and there is keeping yourself pleasant and attractive, without caking your face.
Knowing how to do makeup properly is a useful skill for a girl.
When you look good, you also feel good. Not that a greentext shitposter would know anything about looking or feeling good.
I agree that women are conditioned to prep themselves, it is just not usually made explicit that this is for men. If women did not put in effort they would be fat (women gain weight easier than men, yet are less often overweight/obese), hairy, and not looking anywhere near as cute in terms of hair, make up and fashion skills.
Women are also more discreet about bodily functions, from not ever talking about shitting to working harder to stifle burps and not touching your crotch in public even if it itches like all fuck. They are much more silent about their attraction to men than vice versa because many men find it a turn off.
More than anything else imo women learn to be extra picky with bedpartners because men favor less experienced women. I don't think there are many women who would not have at least a little more sexual experience if society had zero judgment about that.
You can complain that most of these have to do with looks/poise but this is also what by far most men value the most in women they date. You don't exactly hear guys talking about how much they'd like to meet a brilliant/rich/famous/talented lady. Just a hot one. That's not to say women don't care about looks but "sexy" for a man is much less narrowly defined than for a woman, women are more likely to think a man has sex appeal because of his personality or his accomplishments. Men don't seem to care to that extent.
Thinking the wall needs paint at all isn't self improvement.
Yeah it is. I'm not just talking about women & make-up this applies to men as well.
Making yourself look good is self-improvement. You can still be healthy while also being kind of tubby and hairy and having shitty acne and a unibrow and an autistic haircut that you give yourself. However it won't make other people happy when they see that, and you see that they're not happy when they see you. Even you're not happy when you see yourself in the mirror.
And what happens when they see all the flaws without the make up? Then they feel deceived. You can fix a major of that but hiding it behind paint won't help.
Finding a person who accepts who despite all that is the key.
Those crazy contouring videos that change your face shape are a rare thing (not easy to do!) and show that the make up is caked on in daylight. The far majority of women that use make up use it to enhance their natural features and look just a little more rested, make their eye color pop just a little more, draw more attention to their face shape now that the annoying little red zit is covered. They are not drawing another face on top of their own.
Women just wear foundation/concealer. if you're the guy who's like OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS IS THAT PORES ON YOUR SKIN I HAVE BEEN TRICKED I HAVE BEEN RAPED SOMEONE CALL JOE ROGAN then the problem is on you, not women who wear a bit of make-up just to enhance their features.
I'd rather have a girl be honest and shows that stuff then wake up next morning who the fuck this face is next to me
But hey I'm not shallow so...
First of all, again, unless she is on the very extreme end of the spectrum there's much more that stays the same than is different.
Secondly, do you really think that presenting yourself well is lying? If a girl has just a bit of chub on her belly that is easily invisible with a properly fitted shirt, should she wear something that clings to her slight love handles just to make sure she is not deceiving anyone by not showing more from her body? If not, what's the difference for you?
Where proper fitting clothes and deception by trickery is two very different things. Hiding chub with excess clothes is deceptive.
It's her body she sowed so why hide what she is? If she doesn't like it, why not fix it instead of hiding?
>When anons here say 'put in effort!' in order to not be lonely/live life, what do they mean?
They mean put some effort in to your life.
Put effort into styling your hair (takes less than 2 minutes after you get out of the shower), wear clothes that suit you/your shape/your age and shave properly, putting effort into your appearance makes you feel better about yourself.
Put effort into your body, run 2x a week, walk to places, join a gym, take up an active hobby, you're going to feel better having exercised and you will have an outlet for stress.
Put effort into doing things, 90% of life is showing up, you're not meeting anyone new posting on Jow Forums, you're not interesting for posting on what was known as the asshole of the internet in the 00's, you're not interesting for parroting quotes and stats from your favourite youtuber, you will feel better for having something to look forward to.
Put effort into actually acknowledging other people and having conversations, awkward half smiles and nods to people you know out and about isn't being social, make friends, talk to people, talk to women in social settings, you will feel better having interpersonal connections.
Putting effort in doesn't mean losing you or your personality, it just means putting effort into yourself... people think making new friends and not wearing that same band t shirt they have owned for the last 7 years is a massive lifestyle change, it isn't, you have to grow up.
by definition you are shallow if you're offended by the slightest bit of make-up and concealer
Why is wearing (normal fitting) clothes that make your body look better than it does fine, but wearing make up that makes your features look better deceptive?
You don't even have to wear lift shoes or push up bras to get that effect. By far most articles of clothing (exempting those that are more creative art forms or whatever, and shit clothes that no thought went into) are designed to make the body look most attractive. E.g. for women many dresses are tight/nipped in at the waist, and have a skirt that flows wider. This makes it look like you have an hourglass figure even if you are pretty straight and have narrow hips in reality. A suit is tailored to suggest an inverted triangle shape and make a man look like he has slim hips and broad shoulders even when he doesn't.
>If she doesn't like it, why not fix it instead of hiding?
The outside world has a lot of judgment about how women look. Even if you want to fix it (e.g. you are actively losing weight) you might feel more confident if random asshole strangers are less likely to comment on your chub. And in some cases, like looking dead tired, there is no quick fix and you would still like to look fresher and more presentable.
I have actually not worn any make up for most of my life and while I had my reasons and am happy with it, I have had not one but two employers suggest I wear make up at work because it looks more professional, or because it makes you look more grown up. One even called it "respect towards the customer". If around you people see make up as "taking care of yourself" it can feel awkward going against that. And, the other way around, feeling like you put in effort can give you confidence, like knowing you are impeccably clean can, or that you are wearing something that does a lot for you.
>Put effort into doing things,
What things? I should have clarified in the initial post all the shit like working out, dressing well, etc. is stuff I have covered. I am very concerned my appearance. But meeting people, getting out, finding opportunities, etc. is something I am at a loss at. It may be a bit easier at uni with all the clubs/societies and social scene conducive to this stuff but at home where I have no friends I have no idea how to stop being so cooped up in the house and enjoy myself when home and meet people, especially my own age.
Specifics. Meet women in social situations? WHAT social situations? HOW to I place myself in this stuff. I have no friends down home due to a very silly decision to isolate myself when 16 cause I thought it was good at the time. A lot of your stuff applies to a neckbeard starting from the bottom, but someone whose outwardly attractive but lacking in confidence and a bit social stunted but not ridiculously so? I need specific pointers.
>The outside world has a lot of judgment about how women look.
Why do women think this only applies to them? Men are constantly bombarded with images of shredded guys in media. Their outward appearance faces similar judgement too.
(most)Men don't wear make-up. Make-up is a billion dollar industy and a cultural practice that is thousands and thousands of years old. Women also have to be fit with their bodies, like men do, AND look extra good with their face.
It does not only apply to us, but definitely in a more extreme manner. Strange men come up to you giving their opinion on your body, face, (lack of a) smile, fashion sense, weight. Sometimes without even saying hi, just "you should not wear that, it does not suit you, go with x".
I live in a small country and the effect is particularly visible if a woman is a guest on a very popular national program. A man talking about his work might get a comment about his shirt or his voice if it's really striking. A woman can come and talk about kids dying of cancer and twitter will explode with opinions about her laugh, voice, mannerisms, clothes, figure, whether or not she's fuckable. At some point a young female athlete was in the news a lot because she broke records running and every time there was a thing half the internet commented that they would not fuck her, she had zits, the pictures were unflattering (she's just an average looking girl).
As I said I've had employers comment on my clothing or on my lack of make up...
I regret seeing that the pressure on men continues rising and that it seems like you guys are headed the same way. But as it is yes women deal with a lot more aggressive opinions about how they look both "positive" and "negative".
>But meeting people, getting out, finding opportunities, etc. is something I am at a loss at
>but at home where I have no friends I have no idea how to stop being so cooped up in the house and enjoy myself when home and meet people, especially my own age.
Find events, join clubs, join hobby clubs, attend things where people with similar interests go, sign up to meetups and find people to do things with
>Meet women in social situations? WHAT social situations? HOW to I place myself in this stuff.
See my response above
>I have no friends down home due to a very silly decision to isolate myself when 16 cause I thought it was good at the time.
>someone whose outwardly attractive but lacking in confidence and a bit social stunted but not ridiculously so?
I think you need to be honest with yourself, if you isolated yourself in your decisive years you're a lot more fucked than you realise, you stated yourself that you have no friends which is weird, I've only ever met one person EVER who had no friends at any point in life, you need to read my advice above and then manage your own expectations.
More exposure. Join socials like even stuff from meetup.com
then when you put in the effort, you go to your crush and she says "... i'm sorry user, i date him because he don't have to try"
it's actually a meme but can't find it.
A positive appearance is a courtesy to others, ya goofus.
Thinking about it a little more I think that the difference imo is that while guys get bombarded with the message that a sexy man is by definition a man who has a conventionally handsome face and is shredded, they are still allowed to be a regular guy, to not be "sexy" then. For women that happens after a certain age but as a young woman you are never not (also) a sexual option. And if you are not an attractive sexual option in others' eyes you are going to get "advice" on how to better yourself or criticism, whether in a dating situation or in a work situation. Men you are friends with, men you never met before, older male family members, coworkers, not every single one but from all walks of life. And then there's also the judgment of women who have internalized these standards.
As I said in the other post though, I honestly do feel like men are moving more towards the expectations of women than vice versa. I feel a few decades ago it was a lot more commonplace to have a romantic lead or a ladies' man character that was not stereotypically handsome for example. I don't think that's quite the case now. Also the focus on muscle is definitely extreme compared to a lot of other time periods. Also the decreasing societal acceptance of male bodyhair and sloppy dressing (band shirt and jeans both two sizes too large). It has become much more accepted for men (if not outright expected) to care about appearance and want to look their best while I think for most of recent history part of the sexy cool man package was at least doing a great job at pretending you can't give two fucks about your looks.
Aside from the solid advice already suggested in the thread so far, I would add one more major thing involved in "putting in effort":
A willingness to be uncomfortable.
You cannot expand your life beyond your comfort zone without discomfort.
It's a simple thing, but apparently also a hurdle that needs to be overcome by some.
The whole point of putting in effort is so "you don't have to try."
If you are fit, wealthy, and good looking, you no longer have to "try" to impress anyone, you just do.
The thing people need to understand is that it gets worse before it gets better - you get stressed, frustrated, and are likely to blab about how you are trying to improve yourself, except that no one care, and you look like a try-hard faggot.
When you have been lifting for 10 years, you don't feel the need to brag to everyone that you went to the gym last night. It's so natural, that you don't even mention it. Your muscle definition also speaks for yourself (assuming your genes aren't shit and you did the right thing and you didn't accidentally take a trip to snap city and make your life horrible).
That's the WHOLE PROBLEM WITH REAL LIFE. Nothing is guaranteed. You can just make it worse, but you have to take chances that your hard work will be worth nothing to move forward.
>4. Limiting masturbation to 30 minutes a day or less.
Yikes. Limit PMO to 30 minutes a month or less.
And then talk to women.
Having an orgasm or two a day is good for your health.
but sexual fantasization, porn, and masturbation are not.
If you want to be healthy, work out.
If you want to orgasm, start talking to women.
>sexual fantasization and masturbation are not healthy
This might be a grass is always greener type situation, but from where I'm standing it would seem way easier to buy clothes and makeup than to rewrite my personality
Get raped and die, how about that?
A dating app would be a good one.
Not tinder though.
>comparing buying make-up and clothes to changing your personality and getting a successful career
Not that poster, but are you guys under the impression that women aren't pressured to change their personalities to be "appealing" too?
im the guy who posted this
and in response to all the replies to this
i should elaborate that what is meant by putting in effort into a relationship is to genuinely care for and work for the happiness of the other person. obviously men are taught to bend over backwards, "happy wife, happy life" and all that, whereas women are taught to use men as accessories and ultimately be distrustful and contemptful of them.
so to reiterate, get money and then get a girl from some poorfag country or hope to get lucky with your local western fare
It means work hard at your job.
It means have hobbies that are fulfilling and interesting.
It means don't stay in and browse Jow Forums all day.
It means talk to attractive girls when you see them.
It means go out and get rejected a thousand times so that you can get accepted once.
this image always makes me mad because a vast majority of women can't even handle not being overweight.
>vast majority of women
Are you seriously trying to claim that most women are fat?
That list contains several traits that dont matter to women or dont make sense in the context of attraction. If your a nice human man that tries and takes care of yourself, most of that list is bogus.
the incel cope, collecting jpegs from r9k that you think explains why you're single.
In merica yeah