Too broken to be around people

I've been successfully isolated as fuck for a few years now. Today I ditched a social club that I kind of started.. they'll be okay but I feel bad. The meeting was about to start, I was sort of stuck in a situation thinking about my problems and then a bell went off in my head that said "Hey dude remember you're not supposed to be around people, they don't like that." And I told the group I just wasn't coming today. I'm sure they were fine no one said anything about it. One of them did come to me saying he wasn't going either but I just told him I don't know why he was telling me, he should tell the group, it's not really mine.

TL;DR: I feel bad because I'm too neurotic to be around people. What do

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people like us have to put effort into meeting other people's interests. otherwise we'll always be alone

We actually all had similar interests, that was the focus of the club actually. They're normal people with regular happy feelings and appreciation for life. I just can't put myself around them anymore. They're happy and I'm not. I don't want to drag them down.

I just found out that actually only 2 people ended up showing up today. Now I feel like a jerk because 1 I started the group, 2 we already barely have any people.

I'd appreciate any help. I don't talk to people in person unless it's for work. Why would I? They might think I'm ugly or strange looking, maybe they'll not like the way I talk, maybe I'll accidentally offend them or say something rude somehow, what if I embarrass myself, what if they know something about me I don't know that could get me in trouble? What if they're just a total jerk? All these thoughts race through my head when I walk past people. I see a person and maybe for a couple seconds I think "hey they might be a cool person" and then I immediately think "No don't engage just focus on you and what you're doing. Other people are too risky"

>The meeting was about to start, I was sort of stuck in a situation thinking about my problems and then a bell went off in my head that said "Hey dude remember you're not supposed to be around people, they don't like that."

holy shit OP stop, i'm fucking losing it. i can't even laugh properly im tarding out

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doesn't being alone make you happy?

idk /b/ro, sounds reasonable to me. I guess i experience the same but have blunted down the effects over time with certain activities. I think i'm lucky to have a part of me that forces my hand in a way. I'm 29, how old are you?

Yeah actually I really really enjoy being alone a lot. I have my own paradise sanctuary with turret walls. It feels nice.
I'm 25. Idk I think maybe starting a family one day could be nice but I don't think it'll work if I stay like this.
Okay? Good for you... Kind of just proving my point of why I don't socialize.

fuck no /b/ro i'm proving to you why socializing is fun. That was some funny shit, i experience the same racing thoughts, just very different thoughts now since i've enjoyed an element of mania and other sorts of mental illness from the age of 11

So, you started some kind of social club, which shows that you had at least some kind of social ability in the recent past. What has happened to make that change?

Haha that's for your though, I don't feel that way, I don't enjoy being laughed at. If I had the choice I'd just kick you out of the thread because I don't exist for your amusement.

LOL YOU SOUND LIKE THE WHINIEST LITTLE BITCH

Started via thread on a niche forum and the idea became a reality. I guess maybe I didn't think it would happen.
Hey look everybody it's that guy I'm talking about. I'd murder you if no one was watching :)

>LOL YOU SOUND LIKE THE WHINIEST LITTLE BITCH BUT WITH A FAGGY SERIAL KILLER EDGE

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I'm not even pissed about you. I'm pissed about the reaction I cause you. It's my problem and it makes me avoid you and when you come out and the have your little laugh, all I think about is 1 this dude probably has an extremely tiny penis 2 killing you would be fun, you serve no purpose

Well you gotta change that bro. Unless you fantasize about killing alpha males or something. That's cool too.

Okay? Is that what you want? I'm here trying to better myself, blaming myself not anyone else, and you think you should encourage me to just be angry instead of content? I'll keep that in mind thanks.

You should experience all emotions as much as you possibly can, especially anger. Anger is the most dangerous and difficult to control. Gotta figure that one out carefully. You still need it.

Anyone that implies any weakness on me- I want to fight them. I want to cut their teeth out of their gums with my fingers

That's solid advice, thank you

lol that's good stuff. It's just animal shit. Some have more active animal tendencies. It's dangerous shit but i fucking love it, i want to keep it.

Just remember, shit like that is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When I went to college I started really well, which was surprising after a lifetime of rejection. I had tons of friends, I was meeting people regularly, I was being invited to shit, etc. but then that "they secretly hate you" voice started speaking louder and louder, and I started gradually distancing myself from people out of insecurity. At first it was no big deal, but that behavior started to alienate people, the fact I rarely accepted invitations lead people to never inviting me anymore, which made me feel even more rejected, sometimes my self-esteem was so low that I responded to anything with aggression, which made me even weirder in their eyes, etc. I ended up flunking out and leaving there with no friends whatsoever, I don't think people are even aware of what happened to me.

Now in retrospective I can see where I fucked up, but when I was there it was difficult to because I was just paranoid all the time. Once you started listening to those instincts, it's over, because you will at the very least start sounding insecure and that is off putting to people. You can't start the cycle of self-sabotage.

youtube.com/watch?v=6il9-zdQL4Q

why are you like this OP? has your childhood been happy?

>LOL WHY IS GOD FUCKED UP OP LOL

Yeah. That sounds like the type of neurosis I'm/we are dealing with. It's not like it's their fault, it's me, theres something wrong with me in my head that I need to fix before I embarrass/anger/hurt/disappoint myself. Maybe it's just ego and I should let go of my pride and just allow myself whatever humiliation comes my way? That sounds shitty. Im not that guy that walks into a room, trips and falls, gets laughed at, and then just laughs it off. I've tried, even when I do laugh it off there's always something like a reoccurring joke or nickname that follows that I just can't shake and then the voice says "well looks like it's time to get hostile!"
My childhood was ok I guess. Typical middle class white, things were hit and miss. Fortunately the worst part was my mom was a horrible cook so I pretty much only ate 1 meal a day until I was about 15 or so. My dad was an impossible angry fuckhead but it's not like he ever hit me without a good reason or anything. Idk man you tell me.
We are all god, this shit I'm fighting it's in my head, it's me, I can beat it I just have to figure out precisely exactly "what" it is first

It's not like I can't just kill myself. It wouldn't even be attentionwhoring itd just be "oh okay no one could help him that was definitely his best choice"

>I pretty much only ate 1 meal a day until I was about 15 or so.
>My dad was an impossible angry fuckhead but it's not like he ever hit me without a good reason or anything.
I think you had a rough childhood. Clearly your dad was abusive and I suspect your mother did not provide adequate care. this probably left you with a trauma for life. I think "Typical middle class white" is sugarcoating it.
the cause is almost certainly your childhood. how was your mother beside cooking? was she caring and supportive?

Also harboring anger like that just makes me passive aggressive. I'll be quick to shut the elevator door in front of you, for example

I did have a Gameboy, cable and a shit load of Legos. House was decent. I'd be an ingrate to say I had it rough. I was just too mentally fucked up for my parents to deal with. When I turned 17 my mom rented a studio apartment for me and just let me go, once I took on the bills- well that's how I moved out I guess. Been moving around since then except I never see my family, sometimes my mom lets me borrow money, she'll let me keep a little if my bills are too fucked. But we absolutely don't talk about "this" I've tried. At one point she just looked at me and screamed "JUST BE NORMAL"

>I did have a Gameboy, cable and a shit load of Legos. House was decent. I'd be an ingrate to say I had it rough.
m8… I think there's something you're not telling. material things are fine, but they are not that important. it's like you ignore the elephant in the room that is your dad. there's no being "ungrateful" here, I imagine you got told this often by your raging dad?
if you can, tell more about him and your mom.
>I was just too mentally fucked up for my parents to deal with.
you need to understand children are shaped by their parents. you just can't "get" fucked up on your own. there are biological traits, there is drug use, but beside that it's 99% family environment and their own fault. a child's psyche is like soft clay, it's molded by parents' attitude and behavior. it simply reflects what went on at home. you need to lift responsibility from yourself a bit.

Oh and let's not get it twisted she wasn't giving me a bowl of dogfood every day. No, she'd leave out a poptart for breakfast or some sugary cereal (weekend breakfast was good southern stuff though, bacon eggs etc, best mornings ever). Lunch was always at school, I just instantly took my tray to the trash because everything they cooked was just gross to me I was too picky I guess. Weird oily smelly foods like peas, beans and corn all the time I just can't fucking do it (again MY problem). Dinner.. well that was the one meal until I was a teenager and we all stopped sitting down together. And that one meal was frozen foods that were under/over cooked or bad recipes in general. My mom tried she made the effort. Things just didn't go right and I didn't turn out right, it's my issue to fix. I had everything I needed.
Quads of ultimate truth ok, shit... Yeah no you're absolutely right. My dad interactions were being 5 and him screaming, drunk, demanding I help him with plumbing and handing him tools and what not, I didn't understand what was happening, everything was heavy and confusing, my hands hurt. And he'd always end the interaction with "just go play with your fuckin Barbie dolls" I hated that shit. To this very day I can't look at his face without thinking about him talking to me like that. He expects me to be like fucking Dale Earnhardt or something I don't even know, he makes me feel like a fag or something. I did smoke a little dude weed and occasionally ate whatever pills my friends were taking, but I never habitually like smoked crack or anything like that. In my 20s I had a couple drug binges. Most of that has been coping with this shit. Honestly I still dudeweed with my coffee in the morning and before bed at night but that's about it, other drugs fuckin freak me out now, alcohol sucks too. Bottom line NO I am the god of my own reality I am the beholder of my own thoughts! I CAN beat this.. somebow.. -it IS my responsibility

I have to go take care of something but I still have the thread pinned and I will check back in. Seems like at least a couple of you know things that I don't.

first, you have to stop considering yourself inadequate and inferior and thinking of yourself as less than human. let's settle it once and for all: you're human like everybody else. you deserve human treatment, respect and love. you simply didn't get it when you were young. there's nothing to be ashamed of when it's not your fault.
second, it's clear that the fault is mostly on your family environment and abusive, distant dad who barely acted like a dad and gave you this buried trauma. this is also likely why you don't want interaction with people, because this left the impression on you for your whole life and forever made you avoid people, like you had to avoid your dad.
sadly, you can't just "bury" this trauma and forget it, it will seep out eventually when you're older. but you can and need to resolve it, by holding your dad responsible and understanding he had issues.
what about your mother? how did she treat you, emotionally I mean? did she tolerate your dad?

>drunk, demanding I help him with plumbing and handing him tools and what not, I didn't understand what was happening, everything was heavy and confusing, my hands hurt. And he'd always end the interaction with "just go play with your fuckin Barbie dolls" I hated that shit.
it is obvious your dad has issues. likely he came from similar bad family and faced similar abuse. but this doesn't give him a right to do this to you.
he clearly set the bar too high for a 5 yo just to destroy you emotionally and guilt trip you. he likely wanted to project his own inferiority and sense of failure of an alcoholic on you, not much else. that's why he wanted to fail you, to boost his own ego. he's just insecure abuser lacking empathy, taking it off a 5yo kid, and you should detach yourself from his words.
>In my 20s I had a couple drug binges.
in case you didn't go hard on it, you got off easy. addiction is prevalent among children of alcoholics, and I think you were treated basically like a dog. so don't beat yourself too much, but try to go without it—unlike everything else, damage from drugs can not be fixed with therapy alone.

I've been pretty good about it on the drugs thing, I took myself through treatment once just in case, everything went great. I went ultra straight edge for 2 years until doctors recommended medication etcetc just natural dudeweed now, I don't use it to get "fucked up"- doesn't matter though Seroquel gave me muscle spasms and I don't want to fuck with rx brain drugs ever again after that because those shits HURT! Anyway I do feel inadequate and inferior though, my shitty diet has made me very skinny and that makes me very self conscious. Being white in America feels kind of weird now too, seems like every black person is getting "get away with murder" cards from apologetic libs and they see skinny me and all I hear is "oh this white boi" and that shit just makes me want to go full psychosis. I've been exercising but that requires I eat even more and I haven't quite figured out cooking that well yet so eating more hurts my budget. Shit now is a wee bit rough.

OP I've read your answers and I can tell you this.

You were a neglected child, mainly because you have been subjected to a disfunctional family, and I'll tell you why:

-you said that your father had temper issues and that influenced you during your developmental years influencing your lack of self esteem, your social issues with teasing and rough social interactions.
Did he roughhouse with you^

-from your description you had a passive mother, she didn't probably choose her partner in an appropriate way and I wonder why she didn't left or confronted your father, those are also things which have influenced you and in your infancy (and you can't remember that) you probably felt that your existence wasn't worth enough to be protected and properly loved.

The consequence is that your core motivational circuirtry has been skewed and you feel a constant "missing" of something, but you can fix things but there is an important step: you need to understand what happened so you can start fixing the things which you have unfairly been subjected to and let go of the hate that you feel because you've been unfairly mistreated.

The reason you can't fully understand what happened and you blame yourself comes from 2 mechanisms

-children find it very difficult to criticize their parents for very complex reasons which I can try to explain if you want me to

-the emotional traumas which happen before you become fully self conscious can evade logical self analysis but do leave traces in the emotional regulation system, the values you hold and lots of things.

your condition sounds similar to avoidant personality disorder:
>Avoidant personality disorder (AvPD) is a Cluster C personality disorder.[1] Those affected display a pattern of severe social anxiety, social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy and inferiority, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation and rejection, and avoidance of social interaction despite a strong desire for intimacy.[2] The behavior is usually noticed by early adulthood and occurs in most situations.[2]
is this accurate?

Yeah that seems accurate but there's also a million other excuse labels that describe me. I don't want to use those. I mark bipolar on job applications for legal reasons and most doctors say I have it even though I don't "own" it. Owning a disease will just give me diseased thinking, it's why I don't go to AA, it's easier just to not drink.
Exactly what am I supposed to do now? My very last interaction with my father actually had a satisfactory ending. He was drunk as fuck, literally black out drunk passing out on a mutual friends campsite (at a larger composite campsite) and they're telling him to go home and telling me to stay (they really liked me, I secretly had a small amount of LSD and weed with me) so we're trying to hang out and talk about dudeweed stuff and shit that he just wouldnt get, I end up having to drag him back to my campsite and instruct him to stop raising his voice and I had to get right in his face and tell him "you won't even remember this but I'm actually way more fucked up than you are right now and somehow I'm keeping my shit together better than you, they disinivited you, go the fuck to bed and stop raising your voice." And then he did it, and I felt so frustrated that after I went back and hung out with the people I just packed my shit and left. That was 2 years ago, I've heard he's drinking less now, idk haven't seen him since but I left him on a very honest hostile note. I'm not sure about what to do with my mother, the financial help is great but I can't talk to her about anything personal or she'll eventually come back with "what's your problem" or "I'm busy talk later". Regardless of how I am with them, bottom line I want to know what you think I should do from here because sober mental clarity sounds like fucking paradise god-mode

>Exactly what am I supposed to do now?

well, you could start by recognizing that you parents aren't healthy people and their reactions are not a valid meter for normal social interaction and a large part of your anxiety comes from their behaviour "writing" bad programming in your brain when you were little.

from a practical point of view I can tell you that the worst mistake you can do is following your anxiety and avoiding things, that enables a positive feedback loop which strenghtens your anxiety and ends up with you finding doing things even harder and could spiral up into total seclusion.

also I'd recommend confronting your parents about your feelings and not backing down

I'm about to start another job as a busser somewhere, I'm dreading it so much, the pay is shit, I don't know anyone there, I have to be out on the floor around people. There's so much that can go wrong that the only thing I can logically think of is to expect that everything is going to go terrible just in case it doesn't but I can't even allow that little light just in case.

>"social club" "I started" "I told the group"
>Jow Forums 2019
The normie invasion here is real.

>Yeah that seems accurate but there's also a million other excuse labels that describe me. I don't want to use those.
mate, you already label yourself as excuse for human and a failure. this is not true and has to end. even if you're flawed, you're still human, not a dog. if you don't treat yourself well, who will? your mother who neglected you? your father who's an addict?
you can't just assume guilt for all the mess that was your family. your father is an alcoholic, he absolutely deserves to be blamed. alcoholics always scar whole families. maybe your father wanted you to feel guilty, because he needed someone to bully, and a convenient scapegoat to blame for all his mess.
>I had to get right in his face and tell him
you can tell you still have a lot of repressed, unresolved anger at your father deep inside. even if you tell yourself you're guilty, deep inside you feel rage because you were treated unfairly.
>I'm not sure about what to do with my mother, the financial help is great but I can't talk to her about anything personal or she'll eventually come back with "what's your problem" or "I'm busy talk later".
you say little about your mother, but it's already disturbing how she cuts you off and calls you a freak. she seems caustic and lacking affection. has she always treated you this way? she seems so cold and distant. this also contributes to trauma because people who are supposed to support and love you turn their backs on you. especially mother, because she's supposed to be warm and loving one. people who've had distant mothers often report mistrust to people and difficulty building relationships.

I can agree that they did have issues, I don't think of them as people I look up to or anything. I see it in other people too... For example at my last apartment there were these young black guys a little younger than me that lived at the building and often hung out outside. I knew they smoked and that's one easy way to socialize, I go to talk to them, invite them in, hang out a couple times- they all tried to rob me, individually, separate occasions, on their own. So now from shit like that I'm also a little racist, every time I see black person I tense up like they think I'm a target and I need to be ready to defend myself or even kill someone. I've had a lot of really fucked up people interactions. Some faggot trucker tried to grab my balls on the way out of a Walmart bathroom once, that shit was so infuriating, I could have easily went full autist and broke that guys skull open on the sink but thank God I didn't. Same with the blacks trying to rob me, I had a machete less than 3ft away from me that they didn't know about on all of those occasions, again, I easily could've killed somebody. I don't have active desires or plans to kill any specific individuals or even how I would do it, but I'm fully aware that I am capable of taking life just due to how much rage and hate I have bubbling in result of frustration of everything else. I don't want to hurt anybody- I don't want to HAVE to hurt anybody
With this for instance I'm really fucking nervous and they're going to know. They're going to think what the fuck is wrong with this guy. There's a very real possibility I'll end up quitting right there today first day... If I do I'll at least tell them to keep my pay for the day and split it up for everyone

*Pats user on back

It's alright user. If people make you feel uncomfortable just know some people don't think of you in a bad way. I'm here right now to make you feel better man, I know that feel because I've been there.

What are you on about? I've never been to r9k, don't know how to prove that though.. so really, what dude?
I suppose you may be right. Fair enough. Thanks. It's going to be very difficult for me to get my brain on good track, I've been trying new things with other issues that seem to have been helping, so I guess I'll just give it some time. Maybe if I keep focusing on good diet and exercise too that will also help.
Thank you. I actually believe you. I was just thinking about that earlier today there was once this really genuinely nice coworker and he'd always try and check up on me and talk to me, just being genuinely nice and all this fucked up shit in my head always made me think
>What's his fucking deal
>He just wants me to divulge personal information so he can make fun of me later/silently judge me
Just absolute delusional shit, I was aware that those thoughts were delusions but it still bothers/(ed) me that I got to the point that people being nice to me was a red flag for my mentality.

One thing I do know is the past is passed. If I can let myself be mentally and memory reborn every morning then I can steer myself in a good direction. Sometimes I wake up not even sure where I am for a moment.

All these good discoveries, yet I still forget to get lunch today. Fuck.

> for instance I'm really fucking nervous and they're going to know. They're going to think what the fuck is wrong with this guy

I understand what you are saying but remember that most of the times people are too busy with their lives to worry about these things about you.

from what you've written it transpires that you desire interactions but are afraid of showing your weak side because it wasn't respected and protected in the past, probably by your peers but most importantly, by your parents.

the cycle which happens in the mind of a child is this:

I am in distress->I want support from my parents (and I deserve it)->my problem gets dismissed->I feel dismissed->Since I am a child I feel like I cannot rely on my parents to survive->I feel abandoned and powerless because I am a child->I grow up with this feeling.

Then the powerless child discovers that he is not powerless and that his problem was important and deserved the love of his parents but they did nothing.
Why didn't they do anything?
The depression turns to angst, because there was a reason to feel anger, but feeling resentment towards its parents is one of the most terrible things a person can experience, and does harm to the psyche of the individual, expecially if there's no feedback from the parents side.

Also the interesting thing is that you learn that you get punished for your weakness and then react with anger and preoccupation, because that is what your parents have done to you.

The thing is, this anger manifests as subconscious fear and aggressivity as a reaction towards interactions and is not healthy.

Wow dude you really know your stuff. You want some dogecoin? That's all I've got but I'm sure you do this for a living and if you don't you should look into because for real wow you are really good at this. Anyway, yeah, you're right, it does require a lot of "getting my head out of my ass". However on the contrary, the idea that someone actually has good thoughts about me blows my fucking mind. That issue completely ruins every meaningful relationship I have with females but yeah there's some very very deep repressed stuff that I just don't think about that causes a lot of this and I guess at some point I should spend some time doing some memory exploring and sorting out these things. Might try using a few dreams for that one, after all your dream characters contain all your memories too.

Not the same user, but you'll never get anywhere if you take yourself so seriously. There's an ocean of difference between being laughed at and being able to laugh at yourself.

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>Might try using a few dreams for that one, after all your dream characters contain all your memories too.

it is a way to gain some insight, yes, you might try to write down your dreams as soon as you wake up, you'll also get better at remembering them while you do that which I believe is a nice thing to have.

>getting my head out of my ass

see, you have turned an idea of self caring and help into an attack and a criticism upon yourself, don't do that, you don't deserve it

if you don't mind telling me, do you have a pet?

>There's an ocean of difference between being laughed at and being able to laugh at yourself
Not knowing the difference got me kicked out of a couple preschools if I remember correctly. To this day, unless I tell a joke, with a clear punchline *laugh here* people laughing about my actions makes me tense. Like if I ask someone a serious question and they laugh before answering "oh okay I'm a dumbass you're just gonna talk bullshit now ok". Definitely nervous about that for the job I leave for in 40 minutes (fuck). Dudes there have been doing this shit forever, I see this work as sinking a notch down and that's probably going to make me perform worse and get paid less too yet if I give it 100% and just "take it" I'll exhaust myself and probably give up a couple hours into the shift

Oh, my bad, that was actually a recent thought insertion, a boss from a few years ago screamed that at me during the middle of a shift and it really stuck with me like "wait was THAT my problem this whole time"? You're probably right because thinking about it made everything worse.

And I have a chameleon, she's a total grumpy bitch but she helps me stay responsible and active with all the constant care and maintenance. And I have a cat who's an absolute fucking miracle child, no matter how many times he sees me angry or sad or just inappropriate behavior for around pets, he still stays sweet and isn't afraid of me or anything. Love that little dude so much. I'd protect him with my life.

nice, pets are truly great for a balanced life

about your discomfort in social situations, is the idea of doing some volunteer work ever came to you?

I mean, if you have time and will, something like an animal shelter volunteer

and no thanks, no dogecoins :)

it's expected that you try to defend your parents, but still yo can see what their "league" is. would you take hateful comments from lowlifes like you describe to heart? probably not, you'd tell them to fuck off. so why are your parents different? would they defend you this way?
try to re-think your childhood from your current age perspective. imagine fantasy scenario: what if you traveled back in time and walked up on your parents berating your 5yo you? how would you respond? would you feel sad and empathetic to that child? this will help look at your parents from a more objective side.
and stop trying to apologize for existing. don't try to "apologize" with fixing your life. just resolve your anger, understand that you were treated unfairly, and that you were right. you will get rid of guilt and accept yourself as you are. after that, life will quickly get back on track. without self love, you might keep apologizing. you have nothing to apologize for, your parents have everything to apologize for.

also I think your mother has been overly critical and distant. be cautious—she might be a psychopath. this means she lacks empathy and compassion, and whatever she said was made up to make you feel inadequate (you can read up on gaslighting if you don't know this).
even if her child was imperfect, it's still hers, and only a monster would dismiss a child. it's a mother's moral responsibility to love her child in any case. if she dismissed you and pushed you away, it's a sign of deep issues, and probably psychopathy.

I know about gaslighting, she does that alllllll the time.
I've thought about it but I have to be doing paid work as much as possible. My bills are ridiculous. Been renting apts for 7 years I'm ready to die.

>Been renting apts for 7 years I'm ready to die.

hmm, do you have any chances of making more money with your job, changing apartment to lesser the rent or changing jobs altogether?

That's why I'm working the job I don't want right now. I don't want it but I need as much paid time as possible

That job I started today turned out to be not so bad. Comparative to the other jobs I have, the pay is crap, however everyone there was really nice and easy to work with. And it was busy enough for me to just keep moving and not have to worry about the time. I think alright. Just had my nightly dudeweed, had a .1 more than usual so I've got a good reset for the night. After all the talk I think I'll be ok if I just focus, maybe let myself be happy a little more. Often I worry about showing being happy because then it will allow others to see a weakness I'm just being carefree about. I've definitely learned lessons about being too friendly in the past.

**- I think alright.
Idk wtf that came from, phoneposting but even worse, with a s w i p e keyboard

>I know about gaslighting, she does that alllllll the time.
that's pretty bad. this shows your mother is either narcissistic or a psychopath.
does she act full of herself, is she entitled? does her affect feel superficial, like she's only playing that she likes somebody?
I'd suggest watching this video: youtu.be/osebdyfUBRs this guy has a lot of good videos which might help you.

First of all, truly psychotic people are easy to spot because they will also be suffering hallucinations/delirium. So no, not psychotic, I don't know what her label is. She's just weird. Talking to her makes me really uncomfortable and she really likes to try and make me feel guilty for that. If I had more money I would definitely cut contact for a while.

Pic related, I've been trying to get her to give me practical financial advice or just some sort of helpful information (she's been a banker for 30+ years) but she can't fucking focus, ever, if a dog takes a shit in the corner that becomes the subject "hahaha forget that, look at that little dog taking a shit!hahaha forget what we were talking about hahaha look at the little dog! Hahaha" I could have honestly told her that I'm embarrassed about working said bussing job and don't want her to see me there (I usually work fucking management, I don't need this "humbling") I could have said that but it should have been fucking completely obvious unless I'm just a god damn asshole. It's like "hey Mom I'm getting reamed in the ass, help" "LOL CAN I COME WATCH" it's gotten to the point where I cant tell if she's a sociopath or if she's just extremely fucking stupid.

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When I was around 7-10 I would criticise her A LOT, mostly stuff like "mom please don't touch me" "I don't like it when you say/do this" and it got the point where I realized there's no way she'd ever remember all the stuff I've said bothers me, I may as well just deal with it and resent her.

um, I said psychopath, not psychotic. psychopaths are characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits. but a lot of them integrate into well into society because they're really cunning. they like to exploit other people for personal gain in harmful ways. usually they are very callous, emotionally sadistic, and like making harmful comments and pick at others. obviously, their children suffer most, psychopaths lack sense of love and feel extremely cold and detached and even harmful to child, not like a real parent.

Right right, my mistake, ok well still that could be anyone in my family including myself.

??? Um what the fuck is wrong with you? The lack of self-awareness is fucking ridiculous here.

Youre the jerkoff here, not her. You have a problem with oversharing and unloading your problems on other people. You turn the mood negative and about yourself. Shes trying to be lighthearted by joking at working at a titty bar. She didnt actually care about where you work, shes trying to make conversation but your cynicism and criticism is making it hard. Thats why she suddenly gave you a kurt "oh. Ok" and another "ok" reply.

You snapped at her, criticized her, told her you dont want to see her. When she replied by demonstrating what you said was hurtful, she indicated she took the hint and didnt want to talk anymore.

But YOU suddenly unloaded your venting about how you hate your job, as if you want to gain some sort of sympathy from her?? What the fuck? Why would she give you sympathy after you just snapped at her? There were way better ways of saying you didnt want to tell her where.

Thats why she gave you a short "ok." At the end. Cuz she doesnt give a fuck after the hurtful thing you said. She doesnt want to continue the conversation.

Also if someone gets "distracted" about another subject, its because theyre trying to tell you theyre uncomfortable about the current topic. Of course she would rather talk about a dog shitting in a corner than deal with your stupid problems

>but she can't fucking focus, ever
she tremendously lacks empathy… I've seen psychos, but she isn't even trying to be empathetic… this is bad—it's like she doesn't even think of you as person. she treats you like your emotions don't even matter, see?
>if a dog takes a shit in the corner that becomes the subject "hahaha forget that, look at that little dog taking a shit!hahaha forget what we were talking about hahaha look at the little dog! Hahaha"
does she have poor behavior control? constantly getting bored and distracted?
>It's like "hey Mom I'm getting reamed in the ass, help" "LOL CAN I COME WATCH"
this is extreme and I think you can see it. I'm sorry but this is getting obvious, your mother lacks empathy whatsoever. she IS a psychopath. only they can be THAT in your face offensive and uncaring about suffering. I'm sorry about your childhood dude. she might be even worse than your father.
take a look at criteria on this list on the pic, do you think these other points describe her?

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>When I was around 7-10 I would criticise her A LOT, mostly stuff like "mom please don't touch me" "I don't like it when you say/do this"
this is psychopathy. psychopaths have no remorse or guilt or shame. they always think they are never at fault or doing nothing wrong. punishment doesn't work against them, they feel no guilt or shame from it.
it's pretty clear your mother treats you almost like a livestock, not a human being. I suppose this is why you have absorbed this sub-human view of yourself.

Did it occur to you that a person could fake any of that? It's not impossible. "Oh you don't want me over? Oh ok I see how it is." We've all jokingly said that before, regardless what we were talking about is important I'm on the verge of being homeless at the end of my lease. I wasn't even trying to be hurtful dude I was being 100% honest, every single fucking time I tell her I'm in a humiliating situation she will even leave work to come track me down and watch from the corner. It's just a thing she does that I don't like, I wouldn't have brought it up if she didn't ask where because why even ask where, as I said, it's something temporary that I'm not even enjoying doing. You should consider both sides, however it implies you haven't read the thread since the majority of this thread has been me criticising myself more than anyone.
Maybe, I believe it could be possible that me being her son is always going to make her see me as some sort of pet, she talks to me the same way she talks to her dog, even gets our names mixed up a lot. If you're right that really sucks though because I don't want to just write her off she still has value as a human being and maybe she can be helped without lobster'ing me.

not him, I might agree with you if not for context. it's a bad example, I agree, but you miss context here. out of context, even serial killers look fine.
trust me, when you live with abusive person, everything starts triggering you. walk a mile in other's shoes before you judge.

And just to clarify on the context, I'm asking my mother for any advice whatsoever for anything else I can do for money (I mentioned renting out a property) ((((she's been a banker for +30 years)))) if I cant go to my banker, mother, for that, then who? I have to go to a non-relative banker and pretend I'm not related to one?? Like if you're dad was a master mechanic would he not be the first person you ask to show you how to change a spare tire? She does work but so do I, I never tell her I'm too busy to talk I'll tell her if I need a minute but never just a "I'll get to you when I feel like it"

>I believe it could be possible that me being her son is always going to make her see me as some sort of pet
no. just no. this is wrong on so many levels.
psychopaths have no attachement. they only fake it. you can tell by how she treats you, changing subjects like she's talking about grocery shopping and not your personal struggles.
I have psychopath mother. it's absolutely the same with her. it's like all your life she treats you like some random kid, or even a dog. any sort of story about my problems always attracts either a yawn or harsh attacks. she keeps you at arm's length at all time. but your mother seems worse than that.
it's her fault you feel so low. you should know that psychopaths are barely even human. most serial killers were ones. they have no conscience. they are completely disinhibited and will feel no shame (and even feel pleasure) when they harm people. to them, it's just a way to have fun and alleviate boredom.

Our mothers seem very similar but I'm not going to abandon her if that's the case. She still deserves a chance to be helped somehow. Even if it means me moving across the planet and then just funding a retirement home for her or something like that. No one deserves to be put in the trash.

my psychopath mother is exactly the same way. she has an extreme sort of "rule" that she never helps anyone. or more like, she never feels like helping. it's like her conscience doesn't tell her to help her son in trouble. the only times she helped me was when it was in her personal interest, or something went against her plan.

My older sister did put her through a lot, she was/is a meth head and would always lie and steal and put her through bullshit. So when I started sneaking around to dudeweed she started firing her suspicion/paranoid aggression in my direction too. So I do understand a lack of trust, however for the past 5 years I've been paying all my bills so anything stupid I do with money is my own money and choice yet sometimes she'll still be reluctant to help me because maybe she's assuming I'm just going to blow a bunch of money on drugs or something.

Horrifying side note, my mother is also currently raising my sister's 6yo bastard daughter. She absolutely treats her like a pet the way she talks to her. It's endearing yes but it's as if she believes the child isn't self aware like she is or something. Like there's a degree of solipsism or something. She always complains about how it's such a burden and how she wishes she could retire. Long story, I stopped playing the bullshit though and called DSS and sent them over. And then all of a sudden she's not such a burden she's a miracle from God? Lol EITHER WAY when that little shit turns 13 she is going to be sucking black dick for crack I can already fuckin tell.

it's not so important. what's more important is to understand that she barely even has human emotions. she doesn't even perceive you as her child, her maternal instincts are dulled. and this has deeply affected you. all you did receive from her in your early years was callous criticism—no emotional support, no help, no listening to you, no affection, no care about your feelings.
yes you did get physical and financial support from her. but you can see that was it. she's an empty shell of a mother. any sort of "love" or "care" you might remember from her is fake—psychopaths cannot feel love. it's barely better than having no mother, when you have one that is emotionally abusive and cruel.
you're likely attached to a fantasy idea of a good mother that you never had. as kids, we require support so much, we'd rather believe a fantasy than believe we have no parent. it is such a deep need that even animals will grow up fucked up without a mother, and will attach even to alien objects as their "mother" because fear of losing her is too much to take.
but now that you're a grownup, you can start slowly unraveling this fantasy. only this way you can resolve your trauma and anger.

>She absolutely treats her like a pet the way she talks to her.
this is very important. isn't it the same how she treated you? even if you were too young to remember.
>She always complains about how it's such a burden
again, isn't this the same that she told you when you were young? it's exactly the same. and you have internalized her voice—you tell yourself that you're a burden and you're like a dog. when in fact it's any mother's responsibility to care for her child. you can see how this basically conditioned you, and how inhumane your mother is. she lacks love EVEN for a 6yo.
would you treat your child this way?

>My older sister did put her through a lot, she was/is a meth head and would always lie and steal and put her through bullshit.
was she raised by your parents too? if yes, I'm not surprised she turned out this way…

No I remember being very frustrated by feeling that way as a kid. At several times I would ask "how come you don't talk to me like you do with adults?". But you're saying I should just let her go, accept that my fantasy of having a mother I can communicate with is unrealistic, and move on as if she's dead? Sounds rough but I could do it if that's what'll help me get better for me.

I don't recall ever hearing her complain about having me, but its not impossible that she was one of those to wave the burden of children when I wasn't around. But I was always a prop for her to carry around "awh look everyone look at my cute son!"
>For the love of God mom I hate antique stores and I tell you I hate antique stores so why do you keep bringing me to them
Oh and NEVER let me get my hair cut the way I wanted!!! Ohhh shit! Yep hahaha how could I forget, yeah my hair is permanently ruined now because behind their backs I would steal shitty hair products and use heat appliances/whatever desperate shit I could come up with trying to fix my hair the way I wanted. My hair will fucking never be normal now and it used to be so nice when I could weasel out of haircuts for a couple months.
My sister was completely consumed by it I can't fucking help her. Even when I tried to help her before she would just try to steal from me or blackmail me or extort me, etc.

>But you're saying I should just let her go, accept that my fantasy of having a mother I can communicate with is unrealistic, and move on as if she's dead?
yes, but just to clarify: you should understand she's an empty shell of a mother that was never there. of course if you have to (or want to) you can continue to talk and interact with her IRL, but understanding that she barely has human feelings, and is, like I said, a shell of a person.
this is needed because until you give up this idea that she's a normal mother, you will forever think the issue is with you. even if you see with your own eyes that all your life she's been callous and disaffectionate, your brain tells you: "but she is my mom, right? so it MUST be my fault. she MUST have reasons. because she loves me like any normal person… right? no one would just hate me out of the blue". this is because you don't give up on this closeness, this fantasy of a mother. and like it happens, when you have deficit of something in your early years, you earn for it all your life.
but at the same time, you still see her inadequacy plain as day, all the contradictory nature of your mother. but you cherish this fantasy, and your brain makes excuses to keep hope alive:
"she treats me like an animal"—"maybe it was her idea of love"
"she seems like she doesn't care about me"—"but she gives me money"
"she never listens"—"but maybe my old sister was the cause"
"she says I'm weird"—"it must be that I was a weird kid"
"she says a child is a burdern"—"maybe I did something, I just don't remember"
etc.
and you kinda expect it's kinda like in movies: there's this one big reason, one big thing why your mother never loved you. then maybe, if you apologize and repent for everything, maybe you'll finally get that mother back.
but the answer is, you won't. there is no "big reason". your mother simply has no human feelings. the reason has always been your mother, or rather a woman you call "mother".

for this reason, you just have to detach and once and for all, realize she's never been capable of being a mother, and it's just a fantasy. you have to let go. this might leave you empty and create a lot of grief. but after time, you'll realize that it's for the better.
it's kind of like breaking up with a girlfriend. you're living in the past trying to get her back or make her love you. when you let her go, you also let go of shame and guilt for things which you never did. and you stop being bound and crippled by all this shame, guilt, anger and regret. you just suddenly feel free from all of it. only then you're ready to move on and do something with your life.
>But I was always a prop for her to carry around "awh look everyone look at my cute son!"
putting up a show and having glib and superficial charm is common for psychopaths. you can see how it was all an act.
>My sister was completely consumed by it I can't fucking help her. Even when I tried to help her before she would just try to steal from me or blackmail me or extort me, etc.
this is horrible. you can tell your family environment was hell. it's a miracle you got out without an addiction.
sadly, your sister is an addict, and they turn pretty much similar psychopaths, just completely batshit. you can see she has no conscience and does not hesitate to steal and manipulate.
I don't know much about addiction treatment. but as long as she's on drugs, she's a lost cause. basically same shell of a person.
you had a horrible environment—alcoholic dad, psychopath mom, crack addict sister… it's a miracle you survived through all this, user.

Fair enough
The worst off I ever was with drugs was for a couple months last year I was doing a bunch of those little nitrous tanks, just got a new job and could afford the extra buzz, and then I realized it's not that harmful UNTIL you do too much of it so I decided to nip that in the bud before it was too late. Done a bunch of ketamine several times, pissed blood once, the escape of a k-hole was sweet, but i really enjoy my penis so I'm not trying to rip out my urethra. Alcohol just fuckin sucks, I have no further interest with other drugs I've tried them all at least once. For now, long term, I'd love it if I can continue my regiment of dudeweed for mornings/nights. It makes me SO much calmer, otherwise it's like everywhere I am I have roadless road rage, but with dudeweed "haha wait what road is this? Haha fuck it lets go, haha dude weed"

This is a little far fetched... But what if in some sort of pre-birth existence, I knew about all of this and chose this life somehow? That idea makes me feel good.. really grateful, like maybe just maybe, before this I was some sort of deity in another realm and was offered this but would have to lose all my memories of my existence as a deity, and maybe, the day the life ends, I would return to my previous form. Ha. I really like that idea. Is it crazy if I believe that? It's way easier than believing in Jesus or something for me