Before us lies a paradox such that both Atheism and (determinist) Christianity share a common conclusion. They both conclude with a universe where reality is predetermined.
Assumptions: >Atheism is materialistic. >It is materialistic because it does not grant the existence of an external agency beyond our reality. >Thus, the properties of all matter is defined at any given time. >Without a cosmic agency, the defined properties within the present predict both the past and the future. See Laplace's Demon for further reading. >Ergo, a materialistic universe is a deterministic universe. >Consciousness and free will are illusions precipitated by the necessary interactions of matter.
>A Christian interpretation which defines God as necessarily omniscient also assumes that the future is knowable for this reason. >Because the future is knowable, the future is already determined. Free will is an illusion and conscious thought is already determined.
From this could we argue that the universe, which knows its past, present and future, that is without revealed precedent and from nothing be only the essence of a "god"? A universe created from nothing by a god must necessarily mean that the universe CAME from and IS of that God's essence and that a determined universe would be consistent with that of an omniscient being. From that determined reality, at the birth of the universe, both the emergence of life and humanity was predetermined. If we conclude that agency is beyond a materialistic universe and that humanity has agency, could we then argue that a universe which predicted the emergence of man and introduced a creative conscious essence to both man and the universe could have only came to be from a higher agency beyond the material universe?
>but we don't have agency. Free will is an ilusion. If the brain is but a series of connections which respond specifically to certain stimuli, how can man then harm himself in order to simply prove a point? An act of deliberative defiance
>f the brain is but a series of connections which respond specifically to certain stimuli, how can man then harm himself in order to simply prove a point? An act of deliberative defiance The man hurts himself out of a desire to feel in control. Not really proof or even suggestive of agency.
Determinism is gay. There's a calculability problem. Things actually are random. Sufficiently complex things will be observed taking their next action faster than that action can be predicted. If quantum anything is true, determinism is nonsense as well.
>Assumptions: >Determinism The last ditch effort of Abrahamic faiths. Determinism is your argument, not atheists.
See how you BTFO of your own faith: >Christianity is anti-real >All reality is deterministic >So there is another outside reality with God >God is not real
Here is another version: >All things are cause and effect >The beggening of time needed a cause >there was not cause at the zero-point on the number line of time. >therefore it needed and outside cause >That cause was God >God has not cause or effect >God had no space (darkness) to exist in >God had to create space and light >God is the unmoveable mover >God had to move at some point in eternity to create the Cosmos >God needed a cause to move his mind to create >What caused God to do this? >God has no cause >God has no room to move >God has no mind to create without the first thought that CAUSED it >God is unmovable so and unchanged, so he can't think new thoughts because that is moving and change >God does not evolve >God cannot evolve ideas >God is illogical >God is absurd
All Determinism and Faith based arguments (coming from the same people) reduced to the absurd
It's my fate to call you a retarded, such a grand destiny we live.
Luis Lee
The truth of how the universe works is beyond our human minds. We should just live our lives, as we have been given the chance to.
Aiden Smith
>Nothing is unstable and explodes thus God is an explosion
Parker Sullivan
Well, Calvinist branches at least, but I think it's worth noting that the branches of Christianity that tout free will were mostly instituted before Calvinism; I think it likely that the previous branches just hadn't thought through the implications of their claims about God's nature. Calvinists did and came to the uncomfortable conclusion that they had to either jettison free will or jettison their beliefs.
t. atheist
Gavin Sullivan
We should dedicate our lives to understanding the universe, eventually we'll get it.
Henry Baker
If it exists, then it isn't an illusion.
Brandon Williams
Nothing is random. They seem random, but i contend thats because both our faculties and knowledge are insufficient.
Leo Gutierrez
That's rather psychoanalytical of you. You should be ashamed.
Henry Roberts
God limited Himself in order to be born a man. God limits Himself to account for our willbeing brought into accordance with His own and allowing us to affect destiny. similar to how husbands, head of the family, limit themselves to bring into the family the wife's will. this is love
>Because the future is knowable, the future is already determined. You're failing to see the distinction between epistemology and ontology. It is simply a non-sequitur to conclude that the future is determined (ontology) simply because the future is known (epistemology).
Lincoln Baker
Literally just go to Brazil. It's a big time sex culture. Its everywhere all the time. I went there in December and I broke my dry spell every day. I haven't stopped thinking about it since I came back. I'm planning on moving there after I repay some debts.
Most of the girls are well built partially due to genetics, partially due to the tropical environment and clean food, water, and air. If you don't go to the northern states, you won't see that many niggers. Most of the girls are a pleasing shade of tan with healthy black hair. They fuck like demons too. It's much more redpilled than going to Japan or Thailand because these mutt girls are already partially white and any accidental babies would actually look like you
So is God omniscient or not? I mean, if your new position is that he's not omniscient because he decided to not be omniscient, great, but that's just jettisoning the beliefs instead of free will. The main point that the belief in omniscience and the belief in free will cannot coexist remains, and it's damaging to Christianity that it does because it makes Christianity's history of apologists look a lot more like someone making claims that they hadn't thought through and later adherents fixing them than a system which was delivered through divine revelation from the creator of the universe, which one would assume to be absolutely and eternally correct coming from such a lofty position.
And I mean you can duck this too by just saying that God decided to give a non-eternal doctrine for whatever reason, but practically speaking it just starts wearing the suspension of disbelief thin if you do.
No it doesn't, unless it's something you wouldn't fuck unless you're thirsty.
John Perez
My nieces and nephews are ostensibly quadroon (mother is American half nigger, possibly 60 or 40 percent white), yet the father is 63/64 white. The result? Four children who all have blue eyes and red or blonde hair and bright ginger skin. Race mixing with mutts is not bad if there is enough white admixture.
Christian Perez
She's from here, but I'm quite surprised that a fuckable feminist exists.
Anybody who thinks four Irish/Nordic phenotype children isn't good enough is a purity spiraling faggot who will be hanged for race treason. But you're probably just a seething roastie who is desperate to find a white man to fuck your rancid pussy so you can fulfill your dream of getting a son and cutting off his member.
John Reyes
>Atheism and Christianity call a truce and form atheanity.
God is simply above nature that's really all there is to it your reductio ad absurdum doesn't even work because I agree with the first half and don't need the second it's just a straw man And your problem is you cannot get over the first half
David Murphy
Atheism carry’s the morals of Christians
Caleb Parker
Carries*
Lucas Thomas
OP it is true that there is no free will. And that everything is predetermined. But that is how God mad us. God made the good guys good and the bad guys bad before they were even born. (Roman's 9). Free will is a lie to sell eternal torment.
Hell is not forever. The people that go to hell will eventually get out and get saved. 1 Corinthians 3:15
Mathew 5:26 Jesus says hell is finite and you will gry out when you finish paying.
Matthew 18:34-35. Jesus again says you will get out when you finish paying for your sins.
Mark 9:47-50. Jesus is talking about hell and says everyone will experience the fires of hell, and that it is good. Not only that but Jesus is quoting Isaiah 66:24. And Isaiah 66:24 literally says that the people that go to hell will literally die and be turned to ash.
Malachi 4:1-3. The last chapter of the old testament says that the people that go to hell will die and turn to ash.
Satan Dies! Satan is killed and turned to ash by the fires if hell in Ezekial 28:18-19.
Here's the thing OP. After going to hell and dying again, eventually at a later date God abolishes death(he litterally kills death) and all the dead people rise up again (if they are still dead then death cannot die)
And God will be all in all. 1 cor 15:25-28.
Jesus is the savior of all men and especially of those that believe 1 Tim 4:9-11.
Everyone who inherits original sin because of Adam will be raised up to life because of Jesus. 1 Cor 15:22
The death of Jesus justified all mankind. Roman's 5:18.
Not him but I’ve always understood it as God transcending reality. Rules like causality, the flow of time, and even our understanding of concepts of free will and omniscience don’t limit God, in the same way the rules pieces on a chess board follow doesn’t prevent a player from moving a piece anywhere across the board, or to the other side of the room, or from putting in orbit on a rocket. We are the chess pieces and we can only observe the board and understand movement in terms of the rules of chess, this does not however mean that the player/God is limited by those rule except when they want to be.
Ryan Phillips
Define free will. according to my definition it's not really problematic if you know something is going to happen due to being above time is it the same as locking the world into a certain state. Let's assume there is a random mechanism that give you an answer . is after you know the answer means that the mechanism wasn't random or was predetermined?
Angel Young
Secular humanists do because humanism is just secular Christianity/Buddhism, atheism has no values. All secular humanists are atheists, but nothing about atheism demands humanism.
