Is it normal to dislike your children?

>I do try to force her to go outside and play but like I said, she’ll choose to just lay on the floor rather then go
kek
Does she like to ride bikes? Take her hiking, see how she likes being out innawoods away from other people.

You can always tell the doc you don't want her on meds. They should know alternatives. It would be good to know if they do think she has anything. If they do find something abnormal, you can always search up alternatives online. Just be careful what you look into, and it's not some snake oil shit.

Do you give into her demands? Such as her asking for dessert instead of food.

Did she grow up (ages 0-9) with friends to play with? Was she played with?

Also, I feel like the fact that she doesn't want to do homework shouldn't surprise anyone. She's a child, she needs to play and not solve math problems.

Looks like a lack of motivation, does she have any hobbies to stimulate her creativity? also pressure for good grades will probably make things worse, not doing the homework is fine, who gives a shit about that crap tbqh, when she's motivated about something she will do it on her own. If she likes reading, get her some fantasy ebooks, those can stimulate creativity a lot. Something as an ebook reader as gift too, maybe.

The thing is she’s never not been like this, but I’m not gonna negotiate with my 9 year old, I’ve seen exactly were that type of parenting gets you. We explain she has a choice- do _____ or be punished and she usually picks the punishment herself. She’s treated well. We do go outside with her and someone always sits with her when she does her homework.
She has a bike but she doesn’t use it. She’s never been hiking, but she usually doesn’t like being outside in general. I’ll try it though, this weekend. I know i’ll enjoy walking in the woods at least

Have you taken her to a therapist? This is pretty concerning and sounds like it needs professional evaluation.

Her 1st grade teacher insisted she needed to be on medication and I think I was so triggered by that I didn’t want to even entertain taking her somewhere and that is on me. I’ll find someone legitimate who specializes working with children. If the rec medication I’m out of there don’t worry.
She needs to do her schoolwork as well though, I’m not letting my kid get into the same shitty habits I had.

No, we don’t compromise, the few times we had when she was younger the next time it’s a full blown hysterical tantrum when she doesn’t get her way, complete with screaming and throwing and the whole nine yards.

She has one close friend she plays with pretty regularly, the parents are nice people but they raise their kid the complete opposite so I don’t really like her going over there, rather him come here.
She doesn’t read without us forcing her too and we’ve tried a variety of genres and all that. The only thing she genuinely enjoys doing for fun is playing with her dolls. She liked watching tv too but her mom did away with that, it was all she would ever do.

She needs my BBC

>She liked watching tv too but her mom did away with that, it was all she would ever do.
BASED Mom, cutting off the Electric Jew before it could get hooks into her daughter.

GTFO Thad

>She doesn’t read without us forcing her
I bet you bought some random shitty paper book from the walmart's book section and called it a day? just don't, that's not how it works. First of all, paper is a pain in the fucking ass, second those books are being sold there because they SUCK. Good books are those you find yourself in the most unexpected places. She watches tv alright, like 99% of the people on Earth, the real question is WHAT does she watch on tv?

>First of all, paper is a pain in the fucking ass
kys zoomer.

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I'm talking for experience, if you want to understand a kid's mindset you've to remember what you were like as a kid, I was like her and I know what causes that kind of behavior, seriously, you should be the one unironically killing himself.

I feel you on the meds part but it may be needed. Maybe wait until she gets on them but some people these days are just going to need some sort of crutch. But I would, myself, look into the alternatives and hopefully those will work.

She has a whole little bookshelf, she is 9 she doesn’t need an ereader. She liked Barbie on Netflix, this was at least 3 years ago now. We don’t have cable so it’s not like we didn’t know what she’s watching. She can’t access it now, the only TV is in our room and we have the app that lets you use your phone as a remote.
My wife was anti-tv/Internet before I met her. She’d ban me from the TV too if she could, I’m pretty lucky.

You can't name any of her interests in the last three years? She needs hobbies, dude. She HAS interests, but you haven't even bothered to get to know her. She's a little person now.

>you've to remember what you were like as a kid,
I literally could not wait to get the next Animorphs book desu

Also also, with the whole "eat whatever I make" kind of attitude is going to drive some food phobia into her. Kids pallets are fragile things that have a lot of potential to change over time if you present new foods as interesting as opposed to authoritating that they must try new foods. She's 9 so she can speak about her experiences by now.

>bookshelf
Again, that's useless, it could as well be a bag of garbage lying in her room.

>she is 9 she doesn’t need an ereader. She liked Barbie on Netflix, this was at least 3 years ago now
>3 years ago now
That's YOUR assumption, not necessarily true she doesn't need an ereader. Besides, from 6 to 9 kids are completely different, they need more stimuli than before, what are you thinking making her live without technology in this generation? that's a straight path to depression, she'll become a social outcast.
What do the other kinds look like around her? I hope she's not already being ostracized, if she brings friends over, or when you go take her home from school, try checking how the other kids act around her, if they look too disinterested there may be something going on.
That's all I can recommend, I don't think you will ever manage to fix her anyway, you don't seem to comprehend the most basic things.

Good for you, former sheltered kid with fulfilling youth. We're talking about a problematic child here, that shit could as well be a brick for all she would care.

Might as well drown her now. She's going to grow up and be a slut anyway.

t. Electric Jew

Yeah this is also concerning for her hobbies. And it is starting to look a lot more like depression because she's enjoying isolation when you don't give any other options.

idk how kids work, but animals will develop depression without mental stimuli

figure out what she's into and bond with her over it. u also mentioned she has friends with opposing parenting styles. she needs socialization and to be taught that not everyone grows up the same. let her go over there, unless u suspect abuse or something

I just don’t believe that.
She genuinely doesn’t have that many. Like I said, when left to her own devices, she plays with her dolls. She’ll spend hours arranging and rearranging them, and she always asks for the same toys: barbies and these creepy button eyed dolls, la la loopsies they’re called. I know what she likes. She’s a very neat
and quiet child when she plays, that’s one thing I can’t complain about.
If she had her choice she’d just have desserts for three meals a day. I’m not interested in negotiating with my child. Like I said, I know exactly how those children end up. Especially girls.
Yes I see so many fulfilled 14 to 17 year old girls wearing half naked and wearing makeup on Instagram. That seems good and healthy. I’m not gonna let her have access to any of that until she’s old to have a serious talking to about the danger. I was coming on Jow Forums at 10, it make seem like I’m being cruel but I know she’s not being bullied because she doesn’t have a tablet, my wife volunteers often.

jesus fuck, stop assuming all women are whores. its 2019, everyone has internet access. you can monitor what she's doing, you know. i agree that she's too young for internet on her own, but your sexism is coming out.

They’re potheads, I’ve been to their home and they asked me and my wife to smoke or have drinks multiple times and their son is gonna be gay I’m sure, he sits and plays dolls with my daughter every time he comes over, but that’s not my child so I mind my business. I don’t want my child being exposed to nonsense it’s just safer she’s home with us

How fat are you and how fat is your daughter?

Get her psychologically tested, as others have suggested--mental illness seems like a very real possibility. I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid, but I didn't have any of your daughter's symptoms, so it doesn't sound like that.

>if you want to protect your children you're a sexist pig
Dumbass
It's a fact that society is massively oversexualized, and the entertainment industry even more so. OP is completely justified in keeping tight controls on that kind of thing.

>Seems like she may have lost respect for you guys
this.

your daughter probably thinks your poor white trash, and because your on Jow Forums, you probably are.

Sometimes we gotta get out of our comfort zones. The best thing to do is to always do research and ask questions.

I’m average to fit depending on the season, but I wasn’t always like that. She’s a bit chubby but I don’t want her focusing on losing weight right now, we just want her playing outside and eating right. Obviously from the previous posts it is a fight everytime but she shouldn’t be worrying about her body at all, she’s nine.
I don’t believe all women are whores, but I believe the Internet isn’t healthy for women or men, from hookup culture to everything else.
I will be doing that as I said, I don’t know much about ADD, or depression honestly but at the end of the day if she needs help I want to help her.

let me ask you a question:
do either of you make less than 40k a year?

Your problem is that your broke. Get a real job.

Have you ever tried actually talking to her about how she feels and validate her?

I still stand by one of the best thing parents can do for their children is get themselves in therapy.

I’m an officer in our countries military. It’s real work, but it doesn’t pay well. My wife is a trauma nurse, luckily she makes her own hours so she can spend most of the time with our kids. We work with what we are given.
I’d try therapy, I’m not opposed to it.

>because your on Jow Forums
>your

as a fellow militaryfag: hahahahhaha no wonder you don't know shit about her. its too late, but you fuckers shouldn't be popping out kids when you spend years away from home.

>spend years away from home
He's probably in some irrelevant yuropoor military, not American.

My country is not at war so I’m not gone often, and never for years. Usually I go to deal with training or I may be deployed for disasters. Of course if we were sent to war I would have to go.
Mmmmm my country has one of the largest militaries in the world, we are not a weak force, but no I’m not an American

>I’m not a big fan of the idea of her being on meds
And you are wise to think this way. I was buried in drugs from the time I was 7 until the age of 19 and it almost cost me my life. Iatrogenic brain injury via psychiatric malpractice is terrifyingly common, and the effects of psychological compounds in growth and development are very poorly understood by the people who make these drugs. As other anons have said, therapy is a great idea. Go do things with her outside, get her out in nature. As someone who works with troubled kids in the outdoors, I have seen time and time again that this is the best medicine. CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) is an excellent type of treatment too because it empowers the patient to take control over their own situation.

Ask her how she’s feeling, and listen to her without judgment. We don’t do that enough for our children.

It’s time to take them boating on the lake. Just shove them overboard once you’re out in the deep.

I will be trying it, and I’m listening, perhaps I need to be softer, she is still only a child.

The reason I warn against medication is because I lived in perpetual withdrawal throughout all of high school and the beginning of college from what I was prescribed, and there are thousands of people who die from this every year. These drugs cause pain, and this coming from a former patient at Massachusetts General Hospital, a place often considered to have the best psychiatry in the entire world.

When a child feels sad, they act out. When you punish them for this, it increases the pain they feel tenfold. Talk to her, listen to even more, and make sure she knows you are there for her. A parent's greatest acts of love are only possible when they learn humility, and when a child sees that humility they feel heard. When we are heard, we know that we are loved.

You have nothing to worry about, as I said previously, I am highly suspicious of medicating children. They are children. Psychiatric drugs have only been pushed in the last two generations in my country— my daughter won’t be a lab rat, even if her personality bothers me I’d rather her be alive and at her baseline then permanently altered.

I will be try to discuss things with her more, she is growing up perhaps she does need more explanations rather then just two choices, things have gotten worse as she’s gotten older.

I think you hit the nail on the head right there, polarities and black and white situations are incredibly stressful to children. You have a good head on your shoulders, and you’re a good father. Kindness really does go a long way, and empathy goes even further.

she is only 9. a child.
and children can sense when you don't like them or respect them.
have you ever thought once to just talk to her like she is a person of her own and not a pet you keep alive?
what motivates her to try when all she gets is criticism and rejection and resentment from the people who created her and should be the most supportive?

christ.

I work in a clinic where we treat kids with ADD and other psychiatric disorders. We don't typically prescribe meds unless someone is REALLY in a horrible place, which doesn't seem like the case for your kid.
We do occupational therapy, speech therapy, psychotherapy, motion therapy. It's not always a perfect cure, but 98% of cases worked out.
It's a lot of money, and a lot of work, and you have to change what you do with her too and be consistent with the cures, but it works.

>The thing is she’s never not been like this, but I’m not gonna negotiate with my 9 year old, I’ve seen exactly were that type of parenting gets you.
you know where over-authoritarian, inflexible style of parenting gets you OP? exactly to a situation like yours.
yes I get it OP, you value authority above all. you're a military guy, you were probably raised like this, you don't want a faggot hipster style of parenting, and so on. but you're thinking in polar opposites—either you have full dominance or the child does what they want. this is not true.
this won't lead to anything good with a child. you can read on authoritarian style of parenting. "spare the rod and spoil the child" doesn't lead anywhere good. at best, you'll get an obedient "yes man" with low self esteem. at worst, you'll have those tantrums growing up into teen rebel stage, twerking every single guy in school and early STD.
you need to be flexible and reasonable. you're traumatizing and tyrannical about trivial stuff like meals/whatever. yes we get it you're obese. this doesn't mean you have to take it off on your child. 9yos still haven't got savory receptors on their tongue quite as developed as grown ups. she doesn't like food? why not be a bit more forthcoming and give her what she wants?
just for 1 day, experiment and try giving your child what they want. see what it does. let her eat what she wants and do what she wants. if it does nothing, then ok, you might have a point, and you need to see a therapist—not necessarily for drugs but just to talk. if it does something, you know you have to change your attitudes.
>People are never born this way.
it's rare but it could be inborn.

Meh, no. Letting kids do whatever the fuck they want isn't good for them either.
Honestly most kids miss things like:
>praising from their parents when they do well
>spending time with their parents doing fun stuff (alone with both parents, together as a family)
>being explained rules and things that happen around them
>attention from their parents
>a schedule that they understand (can use a visual agenda)

Giving a child who's throwing tantrums what they want just reinforces their shit behaviour.

OP, i don't get it meh dood. Just raise them MEXICAN style easy pz. You never see those kids fucking around or else. You need to take out the cable, sandal, hot pan, belt, or the hand [not fist].

Beating kids stops them from misbehaving immediately, but damages them and their relationship with you.
Do not beat kids. It's not a good punishment.

Your kid is just a piece of shit. It isn't your fault. But hey, a lot of qualities you wish she didn't have may bring her success in the future. Stick to your guns. Don't let that bitch win.

That’s why where I'm from we pull their pants down and finger fuck their holes a good few times. They act right real quick.

>Have you ever tried actually talking to her about how she feels and validate her?

>I'd try therapy

So no. You won't even talk to her.

This is all anyone needs to know to ignore this useless thread. You won't talk to your child just yelling at her and bossing her around, because you are shit as a parent.

Shut up fagg. Do you even have kids!

Hi I want to ask are you a therapist? How does one go about becoming one? 98%seems too good to be true..

there's more to it. like i said, this is black and white thinking.
you think there's either permissive or authoritarian style of parenting. there's a golden middle that's authoritative.
>Giving a child who's throwing tantrums what they want just reinforces their shit behaviour.
that's like saying, "listening to complaints is just reinforcing complaints". it sounds more like a war against child who's trying to control you. the important part here, what causes what? tantrums could be a response to harsh treatment, not the root of the problem.

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This guy knows. Listen to him.

Thats good to know
My situation is not bad, if my daughter came out like my wife it would be a success. I fundamentally don’t believe in what you’re saying, I’m not tyrannical man, neither over my wife nor my children. I respect my wife and will allow more freedoms when my daughter is the right age, digital access will be allowed as I said when she’s old enough to reason and understand real danger. Liberal parenting gets you girls who think they’re men or will take their clothing off for the first man they see. While I would be open to therapy it would not change the fundamental values I have about raising my children. I was raised in a permissive household, its inherently a failure. I had to reteach myself how to be a good and moral person. The military helped, so did my wife.
Exactly.
I’m sure you’re not serious but I would never beat my daughter.
I’m not really here to argue parenting points , it’s almost 10 and I have to put her bed. For the genuine advice thank you, I will keep it in my mind, and I will be trying quite a few suggestions. Good night to you all

I work with children, and have one.
Beating your kids just teaches them that violence is a viable manner to solve issues, that they can't trust you, and that they should bottle up their issues because once they express their feelings they get hurt.

It's a lot of work, I don't want to paint it like "kids walk into my room and get out in their best behaviour": with some kids it took years, with some kids we didn't solve everything, but honestly we use meds just if nothing else works well enough that they can handle school.
Of the 150ish kids I saw since I've been working there, no one uses meds.
I had a kid who would beat his classmates, throw chairs at his teacher, and never fucking study shit. He would come to therapy and beat me, and scream at me if I tried to talk to him. Now he's 9, he's not the best behaved kid and still has some regulatory problems, but he's mostly fine.

>How does one go about becoming one?
I went to school for it. I don't know what are the specifics where you live.
I've got a bachelor and took two one year long masters.

Tantrums are NOT a good way to express your feelings, and giving in to them gives the message that they can keep doing it and get shit they want.
You should listen to what they're saying, but not give in to what they're saying if they express it in a bad way.
When my kids throw a tantrum I wait till they're done, and then ask them to talk to me in a good way and give in to what they want (if it's not unreasonable), or explain why they can't get what they want.

>teaches them that violence is a viable manner to solve issues, that they can't trust you, and that they should bottle up their issues because once they express their feelings they get hurt.
Yes to all. What a pusillanimous world.

You're literally turning your kid into that alcoholic middle aged dude who was in jail 7 years for beating his wife when drunk.
Teach your kids to be emotionally balanced, and not retarded.

>literally
Ok stupid. You don't even know if i have a kid or if I hit. I do and that fucker isn't ever going to hit a woman. Good luck with your pussyass kids. Some gitd get it and others need it installed. I have nin siblings. They're not all the same.

>that fucker isn't ever going to hit a woman
Why? He knows that the way to deal with people who misbehave is beating them, you taught him that. Why wouldn't he beat his wife when she annoys him, and his inhibitions are down?

Read about children development. Physical abuse ruins children for life.

imagine getting this mad over being told not to beat your kids

>I’m not tyrannical man, neither over my wife nor my children.
see you need to be authoritative, not authoritarian. this means being flexible and giving the child some autonomy, but setting clear boundaries and limits. this also means positive, rewarding discipline instead of punishments. and yes, "reasoning" with your 9yo and listening to them, instead of demanding blind allegiance and unquestioned respect.
and NO, this isn't permissive parenting. you still have clear boundaries and you don't let children get away with bad behavior. you just don't put discipline for the sake of discipline. you allow some democracy in the family instead of tyranny or anarchy.
> I was raised in a permissive household, its inherently a failure.
so you just want to try and fix your childhood by making your child live to pointless rules? first, you know this is pointless, this won't change your past. second, you're simply compensating and trying to prove something to yourself at the expense of your child. you put your own childhood above your daughter's. I don't think this is good.
you can and need to work on yourself, not your daughter. you mentioned you put her on diet when you yourself are overweight. I think you have a bit of a pattern of carrying over your own punishments on your child.

>Why?
Because he's not a fucking pussy. Men don't hit girls. You larp. A child care professional wouldn't change OP's "spank" into "beat." I've read plenty of books. What decade is your favorite? The ones where everyone grows into lackluster faggots?

My advice is, take your wife and get therapy yourselves without the girl.

This "she was born that way" tirade is bullshit and you know it. Her being that way since she started to talk only means she had that kind of input since before she talked and talking only reflected said input.
I mean, holy shit, we got right off the bat:
>you calling her a brat
>you teaming up with another adult against her
>you putting so many rules so early without explaining any of them
>you force practically EVERYTHING upon her

I mean, how many times have you used the verb "forced" on your posts?
Either she's "a brat" because you're oppressing her to the point of constant melancholy or because you and your wife are actual brats and she learned from watching you. Or both. Even if she is genetically predisposed to act like that, it's painfully obvious that there's a whole environment allowing that kind of behavior to flourish.

Either way, you need some therapy for yourselves first. Get an expert's opinion instead of asking vietnamese panty-raiding bulletin boards for advice on your fucking child. Then, with the therapist's guidance, consider checking your child for any mental/developmental issues.

Your child is obviously unhappy because you're not trying to make her happy, your whole mentality is trying to shut her away in a box so she isn't bothering you while you're living your own lives. All your posts are "punishment this and force her that and discipline the other one". FUCK YOU. Have you spent time yourselves reading one of her fucking books yourselves, so you know what's in it? Have you taken the initiative to take her on a field trip? To let her get some freedom of movement? Or are you forcing your idea of how she "should" be upon her, dooming her to make the same shitty choices as you did at her age?

You are the ones who need therapy, man, both you and your wife. Leave the poor kid alone, she's nine years old, she was barely alive in 2010, it can't be HER fault for everything.

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>Tantrums are NOT a good way to express your feelings, and giving in to them gives the message that they can keep doing it and get shit they want.
again, it boils down to tantrum vs angry response.
when a child WANTS something stupid—yes, it's a tantrum. when you force your child for 15 minutes to eat broccoli and they get angry—it's not a tantrum, it's a natural response to coercion.
then 15 years later people wonder, why people have trouble with authority? it's almost like they don't understand they should totally submit to their tyrant parent and never question anything. then they will magically grow up good, successful, and well adjusted people with ambitions.

Oh boy, you're in for a surprise later in your life.

It can't get much later. Better hurry.

>Because he's not a fucking pussy.
Your child won't know how to handle emotional issues or disagreements because you never told them how to. You told him he has to obey to rules, and do what he wants, or he gets beaten.
Why do you think they will suddenly turn in someone well mannered and emotionally competent when they have a wife?

I replied to this post saying that beating kids is not a good parental method.
I've not commented on OP spanking. I don't agree with it either, because it's not useful and in the long term it might be detrimental for the kid, but not useful.
I doubt you've read books since you can't even follow a post chain on Jow Forums.

I was mostly talking about homework and the behaviours she has when she is asked to work on them.
It's fine to have a kid who doesn't eat broccoli, but not someone who doesn't do his homework.

also
>will allow more freedoms when my daughter is the right age, digital access will be allowed as I said when she’s old enough to reason and understand real danger
I'm sorry but it already sounds like you're gonna be the dad who will be confiscating your daughter's phone for no reason, and then expect her to respect you.
you're already making your own misery. I'm sorry to say this, but I think you're entitled to respect. you seem to have made up an authoritarian ego to "apologize" for your past failures, which were caused, well, by bad parenting, and now you're repeating the same cycle on your daughter. you treat yourself and your children harshly even if they don't deserve it.
you don't have "values", you just want to prove some point to yourself or god knows who.
>liberal parenting gets you girls who think they’re men or will take their clothing off for the first man they see.
that's what I said. that's permissive parenting and it's bad. yours is authoritarian, and it's also not good. the golden middle is authoritative parenting. if you don't trust me, you can read studies and books on this.

>I was mostly talking about homework and the behaviours she has when she is asked to work on them.
then be more rewarding. stop the punishment, it doesn't work anyway. promise her a deal, if she does the homework for a week she'll get a reward.

Oh, we got grandpa here, okay

At least your child will be rid of you early in his life.

I agree with that. I'm not questioning what you're saying in general, just the idea that letting the kid do what they want is a good idea.
Kids need some level of structure and rules. They need to understand those rules and be made to follow them with appropriate rewards, and very few punishments (only if absolutely necessary because there's a real threat).
They need attentions and validation, and to be listened to. They need to learn to control their emotions, but not to bottle them.

I'm not saying OP is doing great as a dad, just that saying it's all his fault and his daughter doesn't need some adjusting is unrealistic. Letting her do everything she wants *now* that she is a child with emotional issues is a bad idea.

> We explain she has a choice- do _____ or be punished and she usually picks the punishment herself.

I would have picked the punishment as well as a kid. I wouldn't let my parents decide of everything, because that's just what people do including kids, they want a bit of freedom.

>have 9 year old daughter
>breaks shit all the time and draws on the walls (i dont mind the drawing really)
>little bitch about a lot of things idk maybe going through a phase cause moms gone
> its just me
>eventually my girl gets worse and I lose my shit at her
>grab her and start spanking her
>with every slap I scold her just like how my mom used to hit me
>shes crying of course but doesn't really try and get away
>spank her for a solid 30 secounds and stand her up
>ask her if shes gonna behave cause I can and will whoop that ass again
>she nods her head slowly still tears in her eyes, sniffling and everything
>I feel terrible about it but I knew that i had at least left a metaphorical and physical mark on her
>shell think twice about doing bad shit now right?
>couple of days later shes back at it again
>pulled some girls hair at school
>had to pick her up during work hours
>get home spank her again
>no fight in her
>seems like every week shes doing something to get me angry
>she finally did something unimaginable
>stole my car keys and tried to start the car while I was cooking dinner
>run outside and she locks eyes with me
>breaks out of the car in a run
>I try and chase her but shes to quick
>at least shes inside again.
>lock car and make a b line straight to her room
>enter door way to see her already bent over bed looking back with a scared but mischievous look
>says I am sorry daddy
just walk back into the kitchen and continue cooking dinner
>never spanked her again

The stories and info posted here are all works of fiction etc. etc.

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You don't play enough with your child.

>just the idea that letting the kid do what they want is a good idea.
>Letting her do everything she wants *now* that she is a child with emotional issues is a bad idea.
I only propose this for 1 day just as experiment, if at all. just to see if the girl will get happier. because it's not normal that she's somber all the time.
but at the same time, sometimes caving in to a child is not the worst thing ever. treating your child like a manipulative cunning creature that wants to exploit you is not exactly kind or fair. moreover, often children simply can't communicate what they want to express. and even if they can—they don't want to talk about it in "do what I say" environment, where parents don't listen but expect kids to listen to them. the result will be hiding emotions and things from parents, and needless to say, this can end up badly.
being flexible is simply being human. it's important to let a child know that you care about them more than about your rules, at least sometimes.

It is the worst thing ever if they're throwing a tantrum. That just teaches them that if they scream loud enough they get what they want.
Having her do what she wants for a day is a bad idea because she's not in the right place emotionally to handle it. If she was a more well behaved kid, sure.
It's not bad in general, finding compromises with your kids is a good idea, being flexible as you said is great.

I agree with the fact that strict parenting doesn't work.

This.
I can come play with your daughters if you want.

>chooses to take a punishment
Why give a choice?
Eat and no punishment or be punished and then eat? Which one?

Your girl is the type of hooker that discovered at 16 that opening her legs for a few hours pays the bills easily. She will get addicted to meth through bad friends with thr same attitude to life and work and she will be super dumb for the rest of her life.

Seek professional help

OP, I was very similar at that age. Let me tell you that the thing that would have 'fixed' it for me was a more stable home environment (doesn't sound like your problem), more attention from my parent, and actually being treated like a human. My siblings got more attention because they were 2 tantrum-throwing, aggressive boys. I responded VERY badly to physical punishment, I was insulted that my idiot mum wouldn't reason with me and instead resort to violence like a dumb animal. I had these thoughts as young as I remember, and still feel this way now. Something was missing from my childhood, and I remember not actually realising I was a 'person' until I was about 11. Maybe something similar is happening with your daughter - treat her more like an adult. Discuss thoughts with her, opinions, don't talk down to her. I spent my life depressed and too ashamed to express myself in any regard at all (even now to even think about speaking about emotions or anything personal with parents makes me feel very uncomfortable). Please be nice to her so she doesn't turn out like me. On the upside, I became very morally upstanding - never went through any slutty phase or liking trash media.

Yes, keep blaming your child, that will bring you nowhere.
Research "Stefan Molyneux"; he was raised in an abusive household, became a philosopher and is passionate for "Peaceful Parenting", which he lives by example.
Just a glimpse to his work: youtube.com/watch?v=D4ejllu4A9w

Also, i am kind of disguisted by you blaming your child. Sounds like you're a huge crybaby yourself. Once you blame and hit your child you go down a path that gets you nowhere, except maybe the satisfaction of being right, for predicting her life correctly as your shitty parenting made sure it will be miserable.

You say you don't want to discuss with your child. That's terrible. Your child wants to be treated like a human being that can reason. Treat it like a dog and it will behave like a dog.
I'll just refer you and your wife to Stefan Molyneux, maybe even call in! He manages to:

1. Never spank his child
2. Never even has to raise his voice
3. He succesfully negotiates with his child

Attached: Stefan Molyneux.jpg (399x399, 23K)

Spank her

>We explain she has a choice- do _____ or be punished and she usually picks the punishment herself
You see, this is where you're fucking up. She has learned to take the punishment (laying on the ground ain't that bad, really) and will continue to do it just to spite you. You are not letting her become a person by just constantly forcing things onto her. There is a middle ground between letting the little shit do what it wants and just straight up taking all autonomy away from them.
This will most likely seriously bite you in the ass when she hits puberty and rebels. She probably already sees you as the bad guy and once hormones start taking over, she will do the exact opposite of everything you are trying to teach her out of spite. You are not instilling values, you are unknowingly creating a highschool whore.

Moly's thoughts on Anarchy are his only philosophy actually worth listening to.