Admit it, incels are right about most things

that wide hairline at 15, it’s over for him in a few years

Facts about the feedback loop. I swear to God I'll be semi-normal for a month and all of a sudden I'll have some confidence lowering experience and become an outcast for a year

This feedback loop you're talking about is actually pretty interesting and yeah I can relate. My body now looks like the body a lot of chads in my high school had then. I guess I just developed late because even my sex drive didn't start peaking until I was in my early 20's. I also went through my rebellious phase until I was about 24. Up until then I was just an obedient good boy to my parent's wishes.

Guys ugly like that are pretty rare.

Honestly, even though incels exaggerate and become defeatist, all the shit about leagues existing, women being much more picky than men, some dudes just plain not having a shot, etc etc is pretty well borne out by evidence.

I don't think it justifies the hatred and misogyny, but there's truth to the basis of what they are saying. And maybe they wouldn't be pushed into fringe misogynist groups if they weren't the only groups that don't dismiss their concern and pain out of hand without even considering them.

True. What incels however don't realize is that it is entirely possible to become physically good enough looking as to start getting yourself into that positive feedback loop. Instead, they let themselves get trapped by the negative loop, refuse to admit that they need to improve and blame everyone else for their own failures instead of taking care of themselves.

>pushed into
Stop
It's their own fault.

Can we all try to pass a country wide bill to make prostitution legal country wide?

Thinking like that is literally counter productive to any kind of solution to the incel problem

In what third world shithole country do you live in where it's not legal?

whether they're right out of context doesn't really matter. yes they might have semi-accurate arguments. but they don't explain their caustic attitude or lack of life success.
incels are often people who either had issues with their moms or were momma's boys who let themselves go and have egos too big to change. in any case they grow up incredibly jealous of others and spiteful to women.
they do not want truth. they only argue to prove 2 points:
1. all my problems are not my fault and they happen because society is unfair, we have to change it
2. women are evil and barely human
they will use and twist any data confirming this, and they will discard any counterarguments. anything not fitting the hivemind should be shunned or ridiculed.
…reminds you of something? it's similar to feminism: society is unfair, men are evil, all your arguments are mansplaining. it's the same pseudo-scientific "movement" made for bitter, jealous, unattractive loser people with issues, except women. what a surprise. no wonder incels scapegoat it so much, they need to blame their mirror image for all their flaws.

Oh incels aren't wrong. But they cant see that they are their own worst enemies. It's a mixture of porn and not wanting to change.

Their standards are way too high from watching porn. So they dream about ideal women.

They also hold a static concept of self and fear loss. Women straight prefer men under 25% body fat. They think that if they get in shape for girls the women wont love them for them so why bother.

It's the same thing with not wanting to dated divorced women or slutty women. They are scared she will know better and leave them for a stud.

They want the stars and the moon but are terrified of losing them. I'm sorry captain Nemo, but you cant get to the stars without the possibility of loss.

The average IQ of an incel is around 80. That answers the question.

>Their standards are way too high from watching porn. So they dream about ideal women.
you don't know shit about porn

Or do i?

This.
I was a looser up until 17 or 18. Super skinny, ugly haircut and autism. Got rejected by 5-6 girls.
I started working really hard on developing my social skills - watching videos, reading books and trying stuff out in social situations. I improved my artistic skills, tried different stuff and started going to the gym regularly. I'm 22 now and although I'm not an ultra Chad, I'm attractive enough for girls to ask me. I'm talking about 7/10 chicks. And I know how to play my cards right and to not fuck it up. I still live with my parents and don't have a car. I just connect with them on an emotional, sexual and intelectual level.

Same here. Another big problem for me which incels almost always have as well is that they suffer from the choosing beggar syndrome. like sort of said though it hasn't much to do with porn, incels always want either the hottest girl or they want a beautiful Aryan virgin trump-voting princess or a japanese gamer girl or whatever it is that they want and absolutely refuse to "settle" for anything less when they're in absolutely no position to be holding out for their 10/10 ideal virgin conservative gamer girl waifu.

All the time I was single as a kid I would just be thinking with my dick always chasing after the girl with the biggest tits or nicest face or the one that was the most punk rock even though I was a skinny weird loser with no sense of fashion myself. I improved my looks, improved my fashion and personality and also started talking to girls that weren't perfect 10/10 and what do you I started hooking up with girls by the time I was 17.

>muh parents
>muh genes
>muh social media
>muh middle school bullying
>muh unrealistic body image pressure from society

hey here's a fun game, guess if I'm greentexting fat girl excuses or incel excuses?

fat girls can easily find sex

Yeah, but they're too fixated on a all or nothing defeatist mentality so they might be right, but they're also pretty retarded. The average population doesn't have all attractive traits. Many have at the most one or two.

with who? by being gay with each other and having fat lesbian sex?

>in b4 Chad fucks fatties le 80/20 r9k meme

Fucking a fat girl is something to be proud about on /fut/

Thats not how balding works

Jow Forums*

This board is filled with females and white Knights who are you posting this for lmao

>Jow Forums

I mean that pretty much confirms what the ex-incels have been saying in this thread. Once you improve yourself you gain confidence and of course look better and can hook up with girls that aren't 10/10 supermodel christian virgin conservative gamer girls.

Ah, but you see, fat girl does not have to make any effort and she will still get sex.

She still has to look good by fat girl standards. You have a whole new generation of plus-sized instagram models and whatever. Even the fattest girl still spends thousands of dollars on clothes and make-up and shoes and haircuts, and spends hundreds of hours trying out different hairstyles every morning or when they go out at night and has to try out different combinations of make-up and everything.

The funny thing is that all this dumb expensive shit that girls put themselves through to make themselves look good is absolutely not something that guys even care at all. When's the last time you looked at a girl and you were like DAMN IS THAT SOME 50$ NAIL POLISH SHE'S WEARING? THAT'S HOT

Scott Pilgrim vs The World actually is the worst movie ever made.

>Thinking like that is literally counter productive to any kind of solution to the incel problem
thinking like that is literally counter productive to any of society's problems.
if more "incels" weren't boomer brained conservative victim blamers when it comes to other people's shortcomings and struggles they'd probably be acknowledged a bit more,
but in the circles these communities tend to form (the first 8 characters of this url) not just laughing and shitting on everyone is just a sign of weakness.
What incels are largely failing to accept is that it takes 2 to tango. You have to be compassionate to other people's struggles if you want people to respect yours.

Actually, pretty much every normie over 20 knows this. It's just that somehow, most young people got the "appearance doesn't matter" pill shilled too hard to them when they are young and now the ugly ones are just starting to wake up a little quicker.

Incels are only feeding into self-fulfilling prophecy, same as gang members who think getting a job is all about race. They join a gang thinking they can’t get a good job because of their elders who are criminals by choice. So after they get out of prison guess what? They can’t find a good job because of a criminal background. Negativity can turn what should be good and happy person, into suicidal and angry fuck head.

Jesus christ, can I HAVE reasonable standards as an incel? I don't demand anything weird like political views or racial purity, but I am not fat, and I will never be with a fat girl

im ugly
no woman wanted me in highschool, in fact they all laughed about me
im poor
i live with my mother and im over 30, i finished HS and thats it, no higher education but i have a shit deadend job, i like it but this is considered a loser everywhere i think
i dont have social skills, i mean i dont even have a pickupline, i cant even tell a joke properly
im skinnyfat

i guess the only redeeeming factor for me is being tall blue eyed and blond with a big dick

yet i have and had girlfriends, it wasnt easy and im picky
ppl you would consider worse than me also have girlfriends, even married with kids

incels are just egoistic little shits who deserve every shit they get
>supreme gentleman crying in the distance

>with who? by being gay with each other and having fat lesbian sex?
With non-fat, often even Jow Forums, at least moderately attractive, socially competent men. I hate to sound like I am defending incels, but saying that fat women are having it as hard as unattractive men is ridiculous.

t. guy with a fat sister and two fat groupmates at my uni

They are right but it's basic common sense. Females don't want to engage with ugly males, males don't want to engage with ugly females. That goes double for ugly loser who jerks off to anime and bitches on Jow Forumsincels or whatever the fuck gay little hangout spot they have.
>poeple don't desire undesirable people
wow, what big brain thesis here

t.Incel

So what you're saying is that buying and putting on makeup is equal to spending months or years getting into shape.

It's all the normies and my friends that tell me not to work out for women because she should like me for me. The last person who told me this later admitted that women care a lot about looks. The person was a girl of course.

Looks matter a lot. Height race body and face all play a huge role in who is attracted to you. I don't know why normies hate this and argue against it so vehemently. Like if you have to tell me I'm not bad looking but then go on to say that I should stick to dating chubby women in their 30s or something you're obviously not being honest. It especially comes to the surface when I talk about a woman and the first thing I get asked is how she looks, not "so what's she like, is she funny and sweet?" I think people hate this truth because of the meme about true love - and people don't want to recognize the fact that their looks are why they've had relationship success or that they themselves screen heavily based on looks too.

Just a typical case of normie double standards.
>LOOKS DONT MATTER! Stop being an incel and be nice and have a nice personality and you will have girls!
>....have you tried settling for your looksmatch though?

Looks matter less than things like personality, social status, confidence, and other nonphysical traits. This simple truth for some reason makes incels angry and they come up with all sorts of lies to try to avoid admitting it.

Incels are the ones with double standards.
>I deserve a 10/10 virgin who will love me unconditionally
>NOOOO I won't make any effort for it she must love me for who I am

>Looks matter less than things like personality, social status, confidence, and other nonphysical traits. This simple truth
that's actually veeery arguable. looks alone get you very far, and they alone can destroy you. good looking people can get away with a lot, they live life on easy mode. ugly people have much higher, near impossible standard applied to them, they have it on hard mode. and it's double hard because in order to live up to that standard you need to have strong will and confidence which you will probably lack because you're ugly.
I know Americans like to say "you just didn't work hard enough", but that's just a convenient way to reject compassion and blame the person for all their problems. this is like blaming a disabled person for being weak. it's simply inconsiderate.

That's just not how it works in the real world outside of the incel fantasy bubble. Traits such as intelligence and a kind personality will get someone way more far in life and with women than looks will.

If they're right, why are they so unhappy?

>That's just not how it works in the real world outside of the incel fantasy bubble
yeah really? i just wonder though, why do ugly people have to scrape the bottom of the barrel? why don't girls seem to flock to unattractive people? i think you might be naive to how ugly people have it, especially in the era of tinder. are you attractive yourself by chance?

Holy fuck nothing is sadder than obsessing over appearance.

Look at Bill Gates, look at Rupert Murdoch, look at Jeff Bezos with his squinty eye - they didn't obsess over their fucking appearance. Instead they focused on something they could do in life to make themselves successful.

If you obsess over looks you're literally fucking pathetic. You need to DO something to make yourself successful. At that point, if you have money, then sure, go and get a nice haircut, and wear fancy clothes. ONLY if you can afford expensive shit, of course. If you're a normal middle-income person then DO NOT buy expensive clothes, because it's a complete fucking waste of money. I buy my clothes from one of the cheapest stores in my country. But when I've had some extra money in my bank account from getting my paycheque, then yeah, sometimes I've had a good haircut, or bought slightly nicer clothes. But it's all about being fucking sensible with money - be as frugal as you can possibly be, unless you have a reliable and sustainable income which gives you significant disposable money after all your bills are paid.

Genuinely nothing is more pathetic than these "incel" communities on the internet where they just seethe in jealousy. DO SOMETHING. GET A JOB. GO TO THE GYM. FUCKING DO SOMETHING YOU FUCKING STUPID FUCKS.

And the thing is, if you're focused on appearance, DOING thing is what makes you look successful (and attractive in the eyes of females). Obsessing over your looks DOESN'T. Girls will think "who is that fucking reclusive weirdo obsessing over his looks, reading weird shit on the internet about jawlines and stupid absurd bollocks"? DOING something will make girls like you. Having a career that gives you enough money to provide for a family shows that a) you're competent at doing something (your career), b) you're better than other people at it, and c) you have enough money to provide for a family.

Jesus this isn't fucking hard is it?

Ugly in what way? Just a face that's not good looking? Such ugly guys get hot girls all the time. Ugly body? Hit the gym. Ugly personality? Well, it's you who chose to be an incel.

If you only focus on appearance it gives you an excuse to do nothing. Because making an effort is hard. If you admitted the truth, you would be admitting it's all your own fault that you're a failure and you could actually do something about it.

>Girls will think "who is that fucking reclusive weirdo obsessing over his looks, reading weird shit on the internet about jawlines and stupid absurd bollocks"?

How would girls know if someone is obsessing over their looks, or reading weird shit on the internet?

This board really is reddit, lmao. Saying that good-looking men have it easier in the dating world shouldn't even be controversial.

Hello newfag from reddit. This website is one where incels are not welcome.

That's not what incels say though. They say that only a mythical top 20% of men get sex.

Pretty sure they're not saying it literally. What they mean is that the top 20% of men get most of the women while the other 80% of men are left to fight over scraps, fatties and other bridge trolls, which is true.

And they can never tell you what that 20% is. The top 20 % measured how? They do not understand attractiveness or looks are not quantifiable. Plus they always project their ideal fantasy gay man as that top 20% when in fact women don't find that type attractive.

Maybe. I wouldn't use such harsh language and call people "failures". Everybody has potential. But yeah, people who obsess over their appearance are fucking idiots. If you want to be attractive to girls then you need to DO something.

If they knew, they'd think you're a weirdo.

If they didn't know, they could still tell some things from your appearance. If you're not doing something in life (e.g. a job), then you'll appear reticent, reclusive, pale, stuff like that. If you are doing something in life, even just a basic job, then you will derive confidence from that, which will show in your mannerisms. Plus, doing things affects you physiologically. Sitting indoors all day will make your muscles waste away. You will either look gaunt as fuck, or skinnyfat (if you're eating too much).

If you're doing something, even just a basic job like stacking shelves in a supermarket, you're using your body. This is better than doing nothing. You are using your muscles. You're also having to interact with members of the public. If you're a teenager, you might be apprehensive about interactions with the public. Believe me, I was when I started my first job in a supermarket. But by doing it, you get better at it. And now I have very few worries about interacting with the public at all. You get way better at it over time. Also let's say you do work in a supermarket - you could try and become a supervisor, then a duty manager, then if you try hard enough, a store manager. An area manager. The sky is the limit. In my country (UK) there's this guy, Terry Leahy, who became the CEO of Tesco (largest supermarket in the country). But he started on the shop floor, stacking shelves. He worked his way up. So it is possible.

Doing things will make you attractive to women. Joining "incel" communities on the internet WILL NOT. Don't be that guy. Make something of yourself instead.

I'd say they matter the most because in my experience they tend to be a very strict pass-or-fail type of deal. People seek out and talk to one another for courtship based on looks alone. It makes sense because looks are tied to attraction. You don't want to fuck somebody because they're funny, or nice, or a good person. That's just not how it fucking works.

All those ugly fat guys with hot gfs would disagree with you.

To be honest it's a little disheartening when you realize how many people don't give a fuck about you as a person at all and would only ever want or not want you based on your appearance, and it's even worse when everyone around you says you're "good looking" (although recently, that tone from people to me has shifted to "well, you're NOT ugly...")

Where are they?

Seriously, I know of zero "fat and ugly men with hot girlfriends" (and I thought the problem with incels was that they were whiny and entitled and only chased hot girls despite being ugly themselves?)

I know of big and tall men with good looking women. I wouldn't call them fat and ugly. And pretty much every woman I know right now only likes cute/sexy/handsome/hot guys and will not go after less attractive ones, ever.

Incels are ugly on the inside, not outside. They are quite normal looking. But it's their repulsive personality that turns girls off.

Every girl has different tastes in men you know.

You have to have SUBSTANCE mate. I assume you know about "pick up artists", right? But how fucking pathetic are they? All they do is try and learn to trick women to sleeping with them. They have no substance. Women will never want to raise a family with them because they are nothing in reality.

If you want a substantial life, if you want a family, then you need a job. You need to be doing something in life. You need to BE something. Don't spend your life dressing yourself up to go to bars, that's fucking stupid. You can go to bars if you've got a job. Make something of yourself, don't obsess over your fucking appearance.

It's almost certainly both. Being as fucking vain and pathetic as they are shows. You'll come across as a massive fucking dweeb.

But if you're someone who is focusing on their job, their career, the thing that earns them a living, then you will be respected. Think about a tradesman, like a plumber or something. Do you think they obsess about their fucking appearance every day? No. They get an economical haircut from the barber then they go to to work every day. Then they can use their money to go out on the weekends with their friends, and meet girls that way.

/thread

>when in fact women don't find that type attractive.
What do they find attractive then? Please, enlighten us.

This

>women will never want to raise a family with a PUA

The best people at "game" don't actually show they have game. It's a veil for their increased attractiveness and also an ability to seduce.

I don't see what the big issue is. They put effort into making themselves more attractive. It seems like people just want unattractive men to stay that way and "be with someone who likes them for who they are". Seriously? Fuck that shit. If you wanna sleep with more attractive women, become more attractive yourself - what is the harm in that?

I do know of them of course, RSD Tyler, the guy who runs RSD, has at least one kid.

The other issue I have with your post is
>do something, BE something
Absolutely, have a life outside of women. But most of the time, women expect you to pursue. I can attest to this because most of these threads say "you have to go out and meet people if you want a girlfriend".

Not to sound full of myself, but my life has at least some substance. I have one hobby I really enjoy, I do have my own place and car and of course, a job. And I usually get on well with others.
>don't obsess over your appearance
Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be more attractive. If that includes lifting weights among other things, then so be it. If I want a woman who's good looking, it's not unreasonable to give her what I'm asking for, is it?

eh. Plenty of dudes have terrible, selfish personalities and still get with women. It's not to say all women like them but they have their share for sure.

You need to stop saying it's about "good vs bad personality". It's not. It's attractive vs unattractive personality. You can be a complete dick and be totally hot, you can be a genuinely nice guy yet mediocre and unexciting. Of course the opposite is also true, but the point stands.

Yes, and everyone also has a dream car. Some would like a BMW, others a Mercedes, the big dreamers want a Lambo, Ferrari or even a Bugatti. Humble folks would be happy with an old Mustang or something, and of course stuff like a Camry have their market. But certain cars pretty much nobody wants like the Pontiac Aztec. See how that works?

>RSD Tyler, the guy who runs RSD, has at least one kid
I think he has a few more than that, user.
He's just not raising them.

It is for women though.
Just being good looking is not enough for them to want to fuck you.

Ever done something seemingly random, and found a previously uninterested girl suddenly and weirdly attracted to you?
There are types of behaviour that makes women want men almost instantly.
For some women, this is more about a mellow, general way of how the man carries himself and stuff like that,
for others it's big spikes of excitement and emotions.
But just as you can create attraction almost instantly, you can also lose it almost instantly and with little chance of recovery.
Female attraction does NOT work like men do.
We just look at a girl and say "I wanna fuck her" and that's that. Not much she could do to change our mind, we'd fuck a hot girl even if we couldn't stand her guts.
Women are a lot more nuanced with their attraction.
Looking good helps you maybe 20% of the way there, unless you are a literal god among men looks wise.