Have you ever wondered

why this place is allowed to exist? i never have, and never will, accept that even a semblance of the first amendment exists anymore. considering the sensitive nature of some of the things "we" discuss here, has anyone else wondered why this place wasn't summarily liquidated the second things like pizzagate, the 9/11 money trail, the jewish connection to all things dystopian, satanic and degenerate etc...? for fuck's sake, armed revolution (in the fictional world of Minecraft) is discussed here on a daily basis. i cant think of a single apparatus that poses more of a threat to our satanic/jewish oligarchic establishment than the prospect of the knowledge that can be gleaned from Jow Forums.

that being said, why is this place allowed to exist? is it possible that "we" (old fags/active contributers) are being groomed for something? i have some theories about this, but id like to hear from some anons further down the autism spectrum.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Geu0R4xGAi4
youtube.com/watch?v=GsdiYUnKyzk
keenomics.s3.amazonaws.com/debtdeflation_media/papers/KeenPhDFinancialInstability.pdf
cnbc.com/id/100497710
keenomics.s3.amazonaws.com/debtdeflation_media/papers/KeenModelEndogenousCreditandCreditCrunch.pdf
imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Jews

The (((Elite))) and their Good Goyim pets need a peek into the minds of relatively anonymous plebs. We are a "control group" in a quasi experiment, if you are familiar with psych research methods.

I don't know that because I have special knowledge. I know that because I have studied research methods and recognize the patterns instantly.

Here is some very basic but provocative thoughts:

1. Fiat money (the modern coin of the realm,) is created by decry and loaned into circulation. There is always more money owed than money circulating meaning that down the line, someone must give up property and or labor to pay the debt. It also means that any money saved has its purchasing power diluted each time new money is created and loaned into circulation. This effectively transfers the purchasing power of the saved money to the hands of the person or corporation who was just issued the new loan. Such people and corporations are not the average Joe but the Big Dogs. This is the secret power of the Jews and it has been for at least 3,000 years. Jews have run the money supply of the Goyim everywhere they have lived as Jews. This is why they have been kicked out of 109 countries and counting.

we are just study objects, how should the left fantasy world work without enemies?

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id like to hear more about the owner. any anons got vids of the chink speaking his mind?

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Someone has to give the lazy online (((journalists))) on BuzzFeed and Salon easy material to scare leftards with.

Yeah i know why.

Because we aren't going to do anything and they know it, so get your fucking rifle then and get some men you little pussy cunt shit faggots, i go to work with asians niggers and my boss is a jew.

This desu

3/10
Points for effort.

>we aren't going to do anything
the message of this board is very simple "HAVE MORE WHITE BABIES". how hard is that user?

2. Most plebs interact with a very limited amount of approved media outlets and their local community, who also interact with a limited amount of approved media outlets. This makes people extremely easy to manipulate against each other when necessary and against foreign countries who try to refuse our Dominion; read: being enslaved to the Fiat money system (which the News calls: Spreading freedom and Democracy.) Like General Smedley Butler said, war is a racket.

3. You are in much deeper than you think, but not because you post on Pol or anywhere else. You are in deep because you were born into a system where you can side with the US/EU Empire or ruin your chance of a comfortable life siding with other people who you will in time discover are just like your Jewish Masters only a fuck ton stupider. Have you ever seen how unmixed Africans treat the people they live around? It's grotesque. Pure Africans can't even create written literature without someone else doing it for them. (Don't get me started on the East Asians.) You can side with the Jew Owned, White Hating Empire or you can side with real sub humans who are not white at all. On that note, I think I need to make a beer run. Because I've been corrupted from a young age too.

Our enemies aren't omnipotent. Even if they know who some of us are and have our internet history it's not like it's possible to gangstalk or kill all of us, especially given the international nature of Jow Forums. I think they simply believe we are best "contained" to this one place, and since our discussion is open for all to see, nothing we do will ever take them by surprise. We cannot and will not win from here, but we can still cause damage and be disruptive

Because they know this is a focus group that they can just inject their own ideals in once they convince its users that they are anonymous. CIA niggers here don't just van people, they CREATE them, mass shooters and the like are made by psychologists trained in radicalization and in decompartmentalization. They convince you that shooting up places, or voting this party, or doing this and that are the way to go, and that this was your idea all along.
They know the memetic potential of this place, how fast arguments come and go, and how ideas here evolve in minutes while they take years in the meatspace. All due to adversity and diversity of thought in users. They use it as a testing ground for viral memetics, and also in an attempt to revitalize it towards their goals

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All women now are unironically instagram and tinder WHORES.

So unless you want an armed revolution and to start kaytning niggers then shut yoiur godemdcn fucking imbicile mouth you fuckin nigger, go buy some combat boots and a level whatever the fuck vest and hit me up cause us zoomers are graduating high school with mohammed and jamal, if you dont have the balls for video related GET THE FUCK OFF POL AND GO BROWSE SOMEWHERE ELSE CAUSE YOU WON'T DO SHIT AND YOU AREN'T CONTRIBUTING TO SHIT AND WE ARE FUCKED!

youtube.com/watch?v=Geu0R4xGAi4

4. An extremely provocative thought. If you want to do something really naughty that will fuck up the (((Elite,))) you need to make your action count. There are three primary groups of people who are destroying the white race, in the hopes that they will be able to rule the hoards of Darkies that come after the white man. Those groups are:

Jewish Masters
White Masters
State Enforcers

Measured in niggers, their values are 100,000 niggers = 1 Jewish Master. 10,000 niggers = 1 White Master. 1,000 niggers = 1 State Enforcer. Niggers and everyone else get a value of 1 for being mostly irrelevant. They could be dangerous in large groups but often fight each other or watch sports ball instead. Pick your targets wisely and never get a Pleb or State Enforcer when you can get a Jew or White Master. You won't get many chances before check points go up everywhere and freedom evaporates so quickly you begin to wonder how you ever believed you had any freedom at all.

USA taught me mixing is bad. Loot at these mutts. 200 years then mutts destroying their own country and heritage.

I'm screen caping this

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David Rothschild shitposts here

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I was born to white parents, they dont care at all about our nation or its history, we learned about it in history class and THEN IT WAS TOSSED AWAY LIKE TRASH BY THESE FUCKING FREEMASON BOOMERS!

There are still real americans here, we are just very very very very very very very very very few.

i think this is true, but at the same time how can (((they))) reconcile the continuity o f this place with the fact that the ideas conceived and perpetuated here seem to be spreading to the normies? back in 2015-2016 you would NEVER see, for instance something like the replies this nice little propaganda piece got. it seems like people are finally waking up. and maybe im giving too much credit to Jow Forums being the grand architect of this awakening, but we certainly help.

pic related is that faggoty versace ad replacing a white greek with a nigger who is embracing a beautiful white woman.

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1. Containment no splurge on controlled internet
2. Insight into and psychology of rebellious minds
3. Testing (((strategy)))

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can you elaborate on the white master aspect of your post?

White
So all Europeans are same to you. These European civilisation existed thousand years, why they just become one country by their race. Nope because mixing is worse thing happen in your own heritage and race. Your ancestors were homeless refugees. Anybody born in USA's soil is citizen right? So any nigger or mutts or rape babies became american. Your nation is pathetic. You are not white you are just mutt.

the people who post here have broken their hypnotic spells thats been over the planet for decades. we are way too smart for the average person and we continue to visit here daily and share thoughts and ideas. we're obviously being monitored, guided and groomed by clown agencies around the world. to what success they have? probably subpar but theyve spent millions on bot farms to try to sway our opinions in this place. they know who all of us are so why not monitor and try to influence the literal smartest most dangerous people on the planet who have the ability to put a reality star in the white house.

>tldr, this is a honeypot but take pride in it

Because you faggots are all talk. Stop playing videogames and jacking off to anime porn and become an activist for a no-bullshit right-wing party/movement. Lefty activists get to do w/e they want without repercussions - they've even started throwing shit at "our leaders" without a sign of retaliation. Stand by your own or get fucked when drag queens start teaching your kids

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Its pretty simple, because there will be a mass doxxing eventually. It is the real Samson option, things like VPN and proxies are all placebo security blankets. We have no privacy, they know who we are and what we say/believe. Its literally that simple, you only think you are hiding your power level... but don't be scared, like all their bullshit it will backfire and work to our advantage.

Im white, but alot of people here aren't white, i consider only white men of good character to be americans, all else are invaders that should be dealt with by execution summarily.

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war between 2 factions

you think they keep this place as open as a honeypot but truth is your schizophrenic rambling are probably not that interesting or important, youre just screaming into the void and deluding yourself into thinking you're at the center of some pivotal movement when really, this is just a place where the losers and dregs of society come to blow off steam about their shitty lives

truth hurts

great reply. would you go so far as to say that maybe this place is protected? because that's what i think. knowing what we know about things like mkultra/artichoke and projects of that nature, it's not a real stretch for me to assume that "radical" action would be provoked by the cia for political gains using Jow Forums as a medium.

somewhere, i would bet, there is some shadowy policy or protocol that keeps this place sacred and running - untouchable. perhaps it is a political tool.

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White Masters are the elite of the white Goyim who serve the (((Globalist))) agenda as faithfully as any dog serves its human. They are a bunch of Judas's getting their 30 pieces of silver for betraying Christ and forcing racial integration and mixing on poorer white communities. They have been doing that ever since 1965 but I'm sure the plan was set before the immigration act was changed to favor non whites.

If you only fight the Jew Masters, State Enforcers and Non whites, the White Masters will easily trick you to keep getting their payment from Big Jew. The White Masters are not your friends. They are the second biggest threat after the Jew Masters, to white survival.

If you are a White Master, you are free to risk your wealth and life proving otherwise. He who sells out his own race for the Jew's money is a Judas.

if that was the case you wouldn't be paid to be here along with every other agency in existence on a 24/7 basis

They need enemies for their troops to fight. Without places such as these, and the op-for that they are, the troops (think the left as a category) might turn on one another. The amount of venom that has been riled up in people (sometimes appropriately, and other times not) is such that it needs to be expelled on an external enemy, lest it accumulate within and threaten the life of the organism.

Alternatively, places such as these pose absolutely no threat to the 'program' and the memes that are propagated by a place like this are actually beneficial to its-the program's- actualization. So that OK meme that is bruited as a success here? It sure is, but not in the way folks here think it is.

Alternatively, no one gives a fuck if people waste their lives in a digital wasteland.

+1

I never claimed I wasn't a loser/dreg myself

sadly i am not paid to browse this shithole, wish I was, might have something to show for having had come here year after year to listen to you schizo retards ramble about your retarded pet theories about how the world _reallly_ works

the tooth hurts*

youtube.com/watch?v=GsdiYUnKyzk

Every user reading ITT needs to watch and reflect on this.

Bro I could tell you why but you wouldn’t believe me. It’s better that you stay ignorant, for the both of us.

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so sort of like the front that the jews install as the face of a movement/agenda/party to obscure who is actually pulling the proverbial strings? like a Bush or Macron?

Here's how we know you are full of shit, because people don't visit places/people they hate. Lets say someone hates tranny faggets, that person wouldn't go to tranny fagget YouTube channels/social media/public events, why? Because they hate them... why would a normal person do that? THEY WOULDN'T, you glow in the dark jew fagget nigger

>money (the modern coin of the realm,) is created by decry and loaned into circulation.
Basically this. The ((bankers)) use an accounting technique called "double entry" to create money out of thin air when they create a new loan.

These new loans produce inflation in whatever service or product was purchased with the loan. Hence 30 year mortgage and student debt slavery.

You should want low housing prices, not high housing prices.

It's kept up just like the police keeps up child porn websites to track pedos, or the silk road debacle.
The last thing you do with a bugged room is remove the device they say, and they simply know that instead of taking this place down and making everybody an independent, isolated ideologue that they cannot easily reach, they can instead keep us here and slowly influence us towards not their way of thinking, but as a willing henchman in their goals. People here are being carved not into communists, but into their boogeymen for a good reason, they know that here they can find a plethora of broken fragile individuals whom they can use for their own goals, be it social or political. Remember how they recruited folks from here for the Cicada 3301 tests? There's a clear observation being done here, and if you look into the vault files on wiki leaks, you'll even find a memetics department being proposed by the CIA back in the 70s...
It's definitely here on purpose, I can tell you that

>Here's how we know you are full of shit, because people don't visit places/people they hate.
Here's how I know you're a fucking newfag from reddit. Probably came here in 2015/2016

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Yep. Jew Masters run the money, news, courts, entertainment, etc. White Masters put the face on the Empire and State Enforcers break disobedient communities of whites and other colors as needed.

It's a big dirty shame and it makes a lot of money.

i need to know...i believe things that 99% of pol itself would say is outrageous and schizo...i can elaborate if you want. but you first please.

It’s a containment zone, they dont want a bunch of autists flooding the web or meatspace, spreading their posion to normies, so they keep them contained in a location with a bad reputation like this.

Useful for study. Jow Forums is a meme and cultural influencing powerhouse that hits so hard above its weight it's difficult to believe. These attributes are obviously of value and interesting.

I hate to admit it but chances are nothing is gonna change as a result of the grandstanding and hot air here. The Jews have probably run millions of iterations of simulations and concluded this place is worth more alive than dead.

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It will be a big mistake if they decide to carry out a mass unmasking of anons, I gurantee you a few would decide to start shitposting with their rifles if that were to happen.

...Let me guess, it's a flat earth thing isn't it?

This place is a prison, this is the best way to contain people who can't be controlled directly. Ask yourself, how many years have you been shitposting, giving genuine solutions that never get implemented? When was the last time you weren't in Jow Forums or Jow Forums? How many "oh shit look at this" links haven't you clicked? (we know who you faggots are by using third party links) This place is a drug, the illusion of freedom experienced here is what makes it addictive, but how many people have been lost along the way of the redpills? How reclusive have you become once exposed to the truths of this violent world? Isn't it true that your room has almost certainly become your solitary cell? Who starts the major memes that sway public opinion? The major blackpill I can give to you is that it doesn't matter how much you faggots know or care about something, you'll never do anything about it because you've been conditioned since birth to not oppose authority actively. Finally, realize that talking shit about people you don't like is exactly what we want you to do because that's how women confront each other, the plan is to pacify men into acting more like women abandoning their aggressive nature + domestication syndrome... the perfect slaves, always compliant, obedient, and loyal to their masters.
t. social engineer assigned to this shithole

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Ellites are running this website using the Jews as a scapegoat like they always have for thousands of years.

that was somehow one of the most disturbing youtube videos ive ever seen posted here.

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Everyone needs d&c, many of the ‘proctored’ threads will spit two sides of an issue to measure response and arguments in each. Take a look, you can find it anytime. This places creates the ‘zeitgeist’ product. There are many consumers. Planning is long.

Containment. That is all.

>be leaf
>be fed
>be bad at job
kys

Hmm I wonder what a snail feels like up a pussy..or even a cockhead.. sounds unhealthy, but I gotta go ask /an/.

Same reason why corrupted mentally insane politicians like Merkel aren't currently tortured.

Knowledge is useless without brawn.
Knwowldge is far more useless than intelligence/wisdom.

So the bully, teachers and principal in your school are assholes. You know they're assholes and can go to extensive lengths explaining why they're assholes. Will you gather an army from your explanations? No. Will you get him expelled by providing evidence of what an asshole he is? No.

Will that 10 year old kid on Jow Forums who called me a faggot actually come to my home and punch me in the face? No.

Knowledge is nothing without power. Sorry, but that's the basic truth.

more than that, don't sell yourself short

>t. social engineer assigned to this shithole
If this is true, why tell us? Do you actually have a heart user engineer?

>3. Testing (((strategy)))
If thats the case they have shown they are really bad at this. I can't see the jew winning at this point. The jew and their whores are all going to die.

damn dude. would you say that john ernest and/or tarrant, among other, are exemplative of what (((they))) might consider a success story?

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the fact that you think this place is some cache of esoteric knowledge worthy of extensive monitoring/shilling rather than just lost children screeching into the void tells me you are new here, most oldfags don't have that wide-eyed enthusiasm about this shithole of a website anymore.

like i said, you probably came here in 2015/2016.

you aren't that important. you are not a special and unique snowflake, get the fuck over yourself

>why tell us?
Because nobody will do anything about it
>Do you actually have a heart user engineer?
I wished, but we're on the same boat and I got a family to feed

>are exemplative of what (((they))) might consider a success story?
Absolutely, CIA more than any other organization on the planet understands the psychology of manufacturing a terrorist. Look at what they did with Bin Laden and the Saudis in the 80s. Or just recently with Al-qaeda in Syria.

>screeching into the void
You're getting Jow Forums confused with Twitter.

ok, here's where i lose all credibility in this thread but i dont really care:
some would call it solipsism. everything seems so far away (spatially and cognitively) and surreal. i am beginning to believe that nothing even exists the way that my five senses are telling me they do. not even me. i have been thinking that the only thing verifiable is my own consciousness and my experience of pain (and every now and again, joy)...flat earth is irrelevant at this point.

but obviously this hasnt solidified into a concrete belief yet, or i wouldnt be so interested in shit like this. i still have a job, i worry about bills, i want to have sex women, etc. but most of the time, i feel as though i am the only conscious being trapped in some simulation being monitored by an omnipotent creator.

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your post about double entry accounting was genuinely retarded and sounded like something one of those dumb stoner kids in remedial high-school courses would say

spouting that retarded shit definitely is screeching into the void.

none of the retarded shit you will say here will ever matter, i hope you know that

dox means shit when you are as unimportant demoralized marginalized disenfranchised and lost as we are. what can you possibly do to me if you know me that i won't simply kill you for doing? nothing. not a single god damn thing, nothing matters because there are only two rules like jack sparrow said. the deathstar is in orbit and my astromech is drunk and fuck you so am i nigger. kill my family? well, can't stop you but I can make it cost. I can't do nothing? then nothing truly matters then does it? doxx me bitch i already got cooties thats tame look at these grids zombies leaking poz shit i'm wolverine.

They play for both sides ;^)

Nice try, Dr. Shekelberg! Here's another hard truth to stick in your pipe and smoke:

Jews and Whites have turned to Hedonism every since the Allied Victory in World War II. This, coupled with abortion, has led them to largely stop breeding while food and money programs have been encouraging Darkies to breed like rabbits. This wonderful Hedonist Slave Labor Scam works as long as there are enough Jews to write the scripts and enough Whites to put faces on Empire and enforce decries.

But that is now changing. You can see the confusion even in the Antifa as they assault Black Cops and Hispanic marines, with racial abuse. Antifa. The same idiots who swear that racism should be a death penalty offense, turning straight to racism when confronted with Darkie Authority. (You know that shook the faith of more than a few Elitists.)

Yet another reason the Jew and White Masters won't go too hard on Pol? They are losing their barrier between themselves and their Darkie Slaves. It doesn't look good when light skinned Jews and Whites demonize white communities but still live in their own homogenous communities. Even a Darkie knows he is being scammed after a while.

While one certainly would be in grave danger if they chose direct action against the state, such a person is in far less danger as the Darkies get tough enough to invade the communities of the Jewish and White Masters. That train wreck hits hard in the early 2040's (when most white Boomers are dead,) if not a lot sooner. So keep your heads and arms inside the bus and speak a little more truth to your average Pleb. It's the best change you've got to stay safe. If you care less about your safety than getting some payback on the Elite, remember the worlds of an old sports ball coach on slide tackling. "You either go in hard or you don't go in at all!"

You do realize that's exactly how the banking system works? You're an absolute fucking idiot by the way.

keenomics.s3.amazonaws.com/debtdeflation_media/papers/KeenPhDFinancialInstability.pdf

Why are leafs so fucking stupid?

cnbc.com/id/100497710

You are conflating QE with double entry accounting. You don't know the first thing you are talking about and are probably just poorly regurgitating shit you read in another half-baked Jow Forums post from a slightly more knowledgable idiot

thanks for proving my point that this website is all just morons vapidly chattering into the void though

This is the 2 minute hate. We come, we get angry, we vent, we move on. What is normally said in private is said in the open, and that releases tension. If the internet did not exist we may very well have had a full on race war by now.

There are Israel and Usa. One of them has restricted border policy and immigration. Other one has full of niggers, transgenders, weak border, junkies, school shootings and anyone can be a great American which applies to any race.

I'm honestly conflicted about Tarrant being Mossad or something similar, but look at the middle east right now. Al Quaeda itself was manufactored by elite psychologists and black op command teams. All these people like Bin Laden, Al Baghdadi were in contact with the US before and after their deeds. Just like the other user said.
Right wing radicalism is not simply manufactored, but also wrangled by control groups like the KKK, Atomwaffen, 9A, and other such entities in contact with federal forces. No, I don't believe all right wingers are Co opted, but you have to look at politicians not as aspiring to change the system, but already vetted and corrupted by it else they wouldn't be there. Same applies to all the obviously planted militias and skinhead groups that pop around.
Even Nick Bougas, or A Wyatt Mann had comics about this, it's real, and it's in here and Russia as well, The whiteshirts for example who tried to fight Putin a while ago. You have to be careful to not be consciously or UNCONSCIOUSLY be tied into any act of illegality that would compromise you and your ideological group. I have been there, and I know what the will to die fanatically for something is like. People here will know it too, but hopefully they will be able to tell when their own ideas end and when memetic subversion begins in this place

>You are conflating QE with double entry accounting.
No I am not. You're a fucking moron and you don't know how the M2 system works.

They guide them however they want user, doesn't matter what we say. They're parasites, even if a cause of ours were to rise up it was inevitably funded and guided by them.
Now the difference is when hell breaks loose and war breaks out then they'll lose control in the end, like they did with Hitler.

That is a function of reserve rates which are set by the fed, nothing to do with double entry accounting which is used by pretty much every business everywhere as a means of keeping books honest and managing payment/billing.

thanks for continuing to prove you have no fucking clue what you're talking about and are just regurgitating things mindlessly though, you're making my point perfectly. You don't have the first clue about finance but you think reading a cnbc link qualifies you to shout people down.

Try to make a thread about suppressed technology, if it doesnt die with less than 10 posts it gets shoad by a jannie.

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>That is a function of reserve rates which are set by the fed
Have you ever considered that you're just too fucking stupid to understand the article?

I actually understand the math in this article. Do you?

keenomics.s3.amazonaws.com/debtdeflation_media/papers/KeenModelEndogenousCreditandCreditCrunch.pdf

ok, so i did a very cursory search of cicada 3301. are you saying anons from pol were recruited? and if so, where to? was it cia/nsa? international maybe?

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Have you ever considered that you have no idea what you're talking about and the article actually agrees with me that reserve requirements are behind the phenomenon you're describing, right?

you know double entry predates fractional reserve banking by hundreds of years, right? You know people can tell when you're talking out of your ass about a subject you 0 clue about, right?

I'm not clicking your doxxing link faggot.

Oy vey even the IMF admits loans create deposits!

imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf

Based antifa they fight the ellites because they know what's up.

>article actually agrees with me that reserve requirements
You actually misunderstood the article completely. The reserve requirements are merely a regulatory device and have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

You are just low IQ. that's your problem.

It can't, so there will always be one to replace the other.

nice try but still not clicking your doxxing link

>I'm not clicking your doxxing link faggot.
Oy vey, you proved me wrong with numerous papers written by actual economists and experts. I'm not clicking your dox link!

Ah you should look into it more, it had to do with anons in /b/ and other boards but also public places, and those who could solve them were "approached". I remember this from a while ago so there might be some differences, but the point is that they do keep an eye out. Research the GATE program and all the eyewitness reports, or the electroshock testings that completely unhinged Theodore Kaczynski

the glowniggers use it to monintor for potential signs of a mass uprising and then develop strategies to counter-signal against it.

dude, can you post the screencap after you do it? I wanna do it too but I'm working right now.

>(((Experts)))

nice try bud

>muh secret club
Fuck off back to redit

will pic related ever be possible again then? what would it take. there are some major fucking blackpills in here, and apparently some of you have thought about this alot more than i thought i did. what hope is there of a divorce from/dissolution of this satanic system? hell, maybe even the third reich itself was compromised. i dont know what to believe in anymore.

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Damn, this is probably the truth

First of all, as long as the 2nd exists they will be afraid of openly violating the 1st. Guerrilla insurgencies are a nightmare. So they play the game and have to bribe, blackmail, and coerce all involved. Meaning a semblance of the 1st does exist even if it is only a semblance.
Second, really look around. Who is being weaponized? It is not the niggers and beaners. Niggers especially are being as respectful and careful (in real life, not the DNC controlled twitter mob) as fuck cause they see it happening too
We are the perpatrators of the next chimp out. I dont claim to know why or have insider knowledge, but the whole rising right is hardly a grassroots movement.
I would guess we are being used to aim and funnel the white chimpouts in useful directions