Holocaust debate thread2

does any denier unironically deny that jews and other people were cremated? i don't think so, i certainly don't for one.
the contention is the amount of people that died and were subsequently cremated.

>If these people were sick and old, they would die from starvation in some bombed out city.

You're confused. The Jews who were brought to the exterminations camps mostly weren't from the east where the fighting was. The eastern Jews were usually shot by the death squads.

I have an idiot i'm arguing with that insists that Rudolf Hoess is proof enough that the holocaust happened.

My point wasn't the workforce required to do the job, the point was the size of the facilities required to house the people awaiting their execution and the resources required to kill that many people by gas or shooting.

If these movies had a bulletproof argument, you'd be able to repeat it. Chances are it's just testimonial without cross examination.

As far as valuables and looting, why not just shoot them on the spot and take everything? It's easier.

Most of the Jew death numbers come from Hungary, Poland and the Soviet Union. So that should be the majority of the population there.

>rudolf hoess backs up literally all documentary, photographic , and archeological evidence of the exterminations at auschwitz

>he isnt an important witness

lmfao "bu but he was tortured"

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The Holocaust happened at night

>Most of the Jew death numbers come from Hungary, Poland and the Soviet Union.

Yep. Well, Poland was conquered in 1939 and Hungary was a German ally.

no shit they cremated, they had them in all the camps to dispose of any potential disease spreading cadavers.
the argument is that the holocaust resulted in 6 million jew deaths yet there are no bodies to back this claim up so the only other answer is cremation, which is impossible given the crematories they had. so either they had a scary future crematory they had to scuttle and we cant reproduce it or they had a fuck ton of crematories which they had to scuttle.
sounds expensive.

>the size of the facilities to house those waiting for execution

there was no waiting. There were 1-2 executions per facility a day.

A train shows up. The facility has already been prepared , they go in , die.

Team goes in , takes valubles/teeth/removes bodies and cleans the chamber of all body fluids.

And if there is another shipment that day they go in next.

There was no "housing" of those being exterminated.

the circled areas are the only areas where people who were to be exterminated were taken.

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at

yu said
>>at treblinka
Let's assume that they got 4000 people a day.

Where did they house 3000 people while 1000 were being gassed and the chamber was being cleaned out? If thousands of people were disappearing in a day, wouldn't it be obvious to everyone that they were going to die and that they should run?

did you not read what i said? they kept them on the trains until they had room in the gas chambers. they arrived on trains in cattle cars, sealed up. they just left them there until they had room, then let out a thousand (several car loads), to go for a "shower" then killed them, emptied the gas chamber, and then let the next lot off the train. sometimes they were on the train for days, and died in the cars. who cares?

they didn't need accommodation. they then sent the cars back empty...

at Auschwitz they killed the spares on arrival. they could easily do three to five thousand a day. and again, if necessary, keep them on the trains. they were not passenger trains on a schedule delivering then going on immediately to another station.

if they were cremated why are you demanding to see bodies?

a "holocaust" requires living things to be burned to death and that never happened in any of the labor camps.
the WW2 Holocaust happened in cities that were firebombed or nuked.
In other words I don't deny a holocaust happened because I'm telling the truth.
Anyone who tries to refute what I just said is a liar and denier

nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/4251-instructions-to-concentration-camp?q=Prisoners armaments#p.1
>Instructions to concentration camp commandants to lower the death rate and increase the strength of inmate workers
>...every means must be used to lower the death rate in the camp.
>I hold the Camp Commandant and the Chief of the Camp Administration personally responsible for exhausting of every possibility of maintaining the physical strength of the prisoners.

>killing Jews
>by reducing the death toll

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>why not just shoot them on the spot and take everything?

shoot people in paris, and loot ther belongings, or Amsterdam, and not expect riots, resistance, the word to get out to all other jews who would then seek guns, or flee.

they did it by telling them they were going to nice new houses in new settlements, and then secretly killed them. and they had them bring their valuables, and hand themn ocver nice adn easy, no fuss, because they were going for ashower. so they could quickly and easily centrally process them, take all teh cash adn gold adn so on, and keep records of it, not have it looted away in a thousand different places by a thousand different larcenous soldiers.

>preventing precious laborors who are making rubber for your war machine from dying

I know its cringe but its really sad how badly holocaust education fails.

Auschwitz was a labor camp formost and had an extremely advanced extermination complex on site.

have you read his memoirs? interesting adn convincing.

and he wasn't tortured, adn he wasn't under any particular duress when he wrote them.

mailstar.net/Hoss-Memoirs.html

to be fair allied memiors document his torture

the issue is that people conflate this with being brainwashed or his testimony not being authentic. Like you can sit in a court room and tell the world how you killed a million people because some guy beat you up and threatened your family and make up all the specific facts in your head and have them magically line up with documents and forensics

Ergo, the argument holds. These people could have been bribed because they were fleeing more violence.

This was the point I was trying to make. Let's say that the train comes in with 4000 people over 12 arrivals, where do you house 2000 people with their belongings while you are waiting for the next execution job?

Let's assume the gas chamber is broken and needs repairing for a few days or the supply of Zyklon B is late. People are still coming. Where do you put them all?

And why even bother cleaning the place. Just leave the body fluids, you are going to kill these people anyway.

As far as 1-2 executions a day, the gas chamber is tiny at Auschwitz. You couldn't fit 4000 people in there if you tried.

>did you not read what i said? they kept them on the trains until they had room in the gas chambers. they arrived on trains in cattle cars, sealed up. they just left them there until they had room, then let out a thousand (several car loads), to go for a "shower" then killed them, emptied the gas chamber, and then let the next lot off the train. sometimes they were on the train for days, and died in the cars. who cares?
Why even waste time with the gas chamber then? Just let them starve and save the resources.

This is my point. I am not arguing that these people weren't sent to these camps, whether or not they survived- the Germans didn't care. My point is that they weren't all killed by intent.

I am sure that a few were gassed or electrocuted for fun but it probably wasn't the primary execution method because it's too resource and time consuming to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

the SS said they could do 4756 a day at Auschwitz. in fact they then decomissioned one slmall crematorium, adn they ahd some issues witht eh others from time to time - one got sabotaged. but they could do 3000 a day in practice.

that is over a million a year.

they only did 1.25 million maybe 1.5 million tops in four years.

they ahd the capacity. it isnt future tech. it is tech of the time.

future tech is modern carcas inceinerators that can do a ton to ash in one hour - on a truck . in one oven. that is 13 of me in one hour to fine ash. in one oven. on a truck

Hurikan 1000.

that is scary.

filthy strawman, I didnt demand to see any bodies.
I stated that there were no bodies to back the claim up followed by a less likely alternative since it implies that they dedicated more resources to an extermination policy that deportation couldnt have solved.
it is that which I have a hard time believing.
the fact that a 20th century western military superpower would dedicate any resources to an "extermination" policy.
europeans WERE civilized then in case you havn't realized and the only places you would see something like ethnic extermination is in africa.

>These people could have been bribed

Who could have been bribed? The Jews? WTF?

ah the lying leaf. with his retarded argument from definition. using a definition of the word that wasnt current in 1945. and about a name of an even that wasnt used until the 1970s

>the gas chambers are tiny

no they fucking were not.

pic related. Exaggerated amount but the space is to scale.

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>guize, letz kill ze juws by hard manual labour and systematic starvation
>but let's do it by keeping them alive

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underground is good for a morgue not purpose oriented for a gaschamber

you know that document also talks about how tens of thousands had died and they couldnt keep replacing them... so it isn't really saying that no one died there.

also it is only about the slave labourers. those selected for slavery. what happened to the unfit to work? were they well fed and looked after... or did they go for a short walk to the showers....

Why would the Germans care if they were so heartless and cruel? They would just burn the city down and get the einsatzgruppen to deal with whoever was responsible.

Why do you think the Jews in the east wouldn't do the same thing? They were just as scared for their lives as the ones in the west.

>they did it by telling them they were going to nice new houses in new settlements, and then secretly killed them
Thanks for making the point I'm arguing with this other guy.

Bribed, lied to, whatever term you want to use for told something false or promised better treatment in exchange for their cooperation.

>zyklon B
really? this is a fucking meme.

Ah there is where they must have hid the 6 million bodies!
Say, have you got any pictures of the masturbation machines that masturbated the boys and men to death? Where they'd walk back to camp with swollen testicles!

>to be fair allied memiors document his torture
to be fairer allied memoirs document his being beaten badly when he was arrested, but not (I think) tortured for information...

1. Krema 2 = 1400
2. Krema 3 = 1400
3. Krema 4 = 750
4. Krema 5 = 750
5. White bunker = 350

There would be no waiting.

Still waiting for the order to exterminate anyone.
It's been decades and not one of you propagandists have produced an order of extermination.

>Bribed, lied to, whatever term you want to use for told something false or promised better treatment in exchange for their cooperation.

And why would the Nazis do this? They wanted to get rid of the Jews, they didn't want their cooperation.

why

actually this is where they hid the bodies at auschwitz

the river that was a 3-5 minute truck drive away.

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>i dont know how secret reich matters work

HELLLOOOOO
produce an order of extermination now please
otherwise this "debate" is over

a paper would prove nothing, though. the standard of proof in the nurnberg trials was laughable anyway.

Using this logic no genocide ever happened.

>REEE
>I DONT LIKE ALL THIS EVIDENCE
>PRODUCE A SIGNED DOCUMENT FROM HITLER ADMITTING HIS CRIMES NOWWWWWWW REEEE

faggot shut up nerd

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now the germans had to drive fucking trucks to the river just because you faggots fail to produce evidence

until you find evidence they drove those trucks this didn't happen and the absence of bodies proves your theory wrong

They would have built a rail or at least tar-seal road for that, considering they would have had to take several trips per day in all weather conditions.

>secret reich matters
Oh you mean the ENIGMA encryption system that was cracked in 1942 by Alan Turing, yet the British still didn't capture one communication giving the order to exterminate anyone, but they sure did see a lot of requests from the labor camps for food and medicine to stave off the typhus infection.
Produce the order to exterminate now or this "debate" is over

there is not even a fucking road and

It's interesting to know that during wartime, they hated jews SO MUCH, that instead of just shooting them on the spot or whatever and being done with it - They burnt the bodies in record amount of time and THEN shipped the cremated remains to another location!
All of this while being bombed, rationed, starved, fighting wars on all fronts... but they found time! Germans must have been hard workers.

indeed the evidence submitted in the nuremberg trails was tampered with and sometimes even completely forged yet not even during those trails was an order to exterminate shown as evidence.

there is this order during the nuremberg trials which somebody posted which said the mortality rates at all consentration camps has to be reduced by all means

but that cant be.
it takes 2-3 hours to completely burn through a human body and auschwitz only had 46 ovens.
Assuming they were working non stop for he whole day (24hr) and that each oven could only hold 1 body and lets say the body only takes 2 hours instead of the range to burn completely.
in theory only 552 bodies can be processed per day in auschwitz.

> I can't produce an order of extermination and this is how I cope with that fact
This "debate" is officially over
you have lost.

the ovens were certified for over 4k bodies per day in total the argument that they didn't have the capacity to dispose of the bodies is false

Be sure to use the OPTIONS field if replying to this defrocked debate so that other threads don't get bumped lower by this mistake.

>only had 46 ovens.
>only 552 bodies

Even if we accept you incorrect calculation, it's still a huge number. Not even the largest POW or labor camps had such capacity.

>omg they took the ash in the back of opels and dumped it in the river that is less than a mile away? IMPOSSIBLE

This thread is reaching new lows.

Also, if you see another one of these threads be sure to demand to see the order of extermination just to watch how liars squirm and cope with the fact they can't produce even one.

they also literally changed the standard of evidence so convictions could be made more easily. remember this every time a holohoaxer demands you prove your claims etc.
they didn't give a shit back then, so why should you have to?

No

Attached: krema cremation 3.png (591x844, 73K)

>haha OJ didnt do it because the glove didnt fit

nice

on top of that the testimonies that were submitted to the trail were not even read by the person who signed them, and almost all of the people who did sign them were tortured into doing so.
The only reason I reply to these threads is so that lurkers can learn how to deal with bullshit artists, but i always sah-jay my replies

the fact that kikes would go even far as to prosecute old people over free speech proves that (((they're))) hiding something

that makes no sense, we cant reproduce those ovens today. how is that evidence?
>incorrect calculation
24 hours in a single day devided by 2 hours it takes to burn the body times the oven capacity which we assumed in the calculation to be 1.
that would be: (24 / 2) * 46 = 552

trail=trial*

>it was all super secret
It must have been the most superest of secrets ever then. Because you've got nothing.

because they would have put the producer in the camp if they had lied about the certified capacity

Plus using fear. If an old lady can go to jail for it, anyone can. They're mongrels.

>we cant reproduce those ovens today.

You can reproduce the ovens, but not the procedure.

>Wasting vast amount of resources on bullshit during a giant war effort
being this retarded

It wasn't bullshit from the Nazi racial perspective. Plus, what the deniers claim supposedly happened is even more wasteful.

3-5 bodies. The people being gassed were elderly and children/infants

pic related. Not a difficult concept. Then you add in this fact and you have much greater efficiency.

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please tell me your fucking with me, this sounds like a home depot cliche.

>driving 2-3 trucks to get rid of the remains of 4000 people
>waste

bro we had people in this thread who thought hunting fleeing jewish families into the forests in half tracks is more efficient

Why debate an outright lie?

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It was all a giant kraut coverup.
>Hid it from the red cross during the war.
>Didn't mention in the propaganda how the evil jews were being killed.
>Burned the documents.
>Didn't talk in encrypted communication about it.
>Destroyed the facilities.
>Left 7k potential eyewitnesses in auschwitz alive.
>Gave the order to reduce mortality rate in concentration camps by all means.
>Left 7k potential eyewitnesses in auschwitz alive.

OOps.

when you add bodies, that increases how long it takes to burn.
you're essentially adding slow burning fuel to a fire.

rudolf hoess was cross examined by a lawyer during the trial.

him being tortured doesnt have any realistic effect on a question and answer statement

you can actually read his court cross examination.

confessions obtained by torture or duress are not qualified in court and a warcrime

>wasnt bullshit from the Nazi Racial perspective
yes it is, all people wanted was for them to go away, deportation was already proving to be effective and i'm willing to bet the havaara agreement was a "test" transfer to see if palestine could benefit from the immigration.

you haven't produced an order to exterminate and you're really bad at pilpul, maybe you should take up something better suited to your two digit IQ like solitaire or crochet

>when you add bodies it increases

no it doesnt. And even if it added 10-20 minutes you would still be burning 3-5 bodies in a hour to hour 25 minutes

But the truth is they didnt wait an hour to put in new bodies. Within 25 minutes most of the body was reduced to a clump the size of a football and they simply dumped the red hot remains into the ash bin and it continued to burn. They then added new bodies.

meaning you had around 25 minutes per 3-5 bodies per oven

its not a confession its a question and answer session in open court

I know you dont know the difference because you are retarded but i assure you its actually quite a big difference.

if they threaten your family and or health whatever happens after does not matter. A court with torture before and such is simply a kangoroo operation.

you are getting fucked up all up and down this thread and your strawman of demanding a secret reich order or the holocaust didnt happen isnt working

>yes it is, all people wanted was for them to go away, deportation was already proving to be effective

Nonsense, their grand plan to deport them to Madagascar failed because they couldn't defeat Great Britain and use its fleet to transport the Jews.

You claim it was all a giant kraut conspiracy to cover it up and only the sleuth of the polit buereau discovered the truth

you still don't get it do you, of course not because the brain damage you suffered by a rabbi at 8 days old and subsequent herpes infection when the wound was sucked on prevents you from understanding.
I'll type slower for you:
produce
an
order
of
extermination

>whatever happens doesnt matter

sorry but you cant threaten somebody to give extremely specific and context sensitive answers in that format

YOU CAN torture somebody into reading a statement they didnt write. Or signing a document. Or giving up locations to people

you cant torture somebody to remember extremely specific events that didnt happen that happen to be backed up by piles of evidence

it doesnt work like that

rudolf hoess's cross examination was quite literally the end of the ability to deny the holocaust because he finished his statement by saying he was following orders and was not guilty.

That is not the behavior of a man under duress or threat.

Obligatory message to trigger the commie bastards that hate my country and my flag on this board.

To everyone else, please ignore.

did you not take physics in secondary?

do you think a body goes from 5 foot 3 100 pounds to 5 foot 3 100 pounds in 59 minutes and then when that when that last minute hits it poofs into ash?

No when you cremate a body most of it falls away extremely rapidly in the first 15 minutes and all that remains is a tough little clump that you have to continue to burn.

If you ignore that clump and push it out of the way and put in more bodies

guess what? you just defeated "physics" and burned more bodies than "modern crematoria"

we got exculpatory evidence

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they've been hailing britain for peace talks ever since they ate poland, I have even less of a reason to believe that they resorted to mass extermination simply because of stubborness.
this logic dictates that a NATION dedicated its RESOURCES to something that gives nothing in return except the fact there are "no jews".
at that point you think about efficiency.
tell me, is it REALLY efficient to ethnically murder millions of people as opposed to deportation?