What is the difference between national socialism and democratic socialism (or also communism)?

I hear a lot on the right about how national socialism is just more socialism.
I hear a lot on the left about how national socialism is just corporatism.
I've read quotes where Hitler claims national socialism is different from communism (or democratic socialism).
But despite all of this, the biggest difference I've been able to glean is that Hitler's national socialism was very similar to moderate left socialism/euro socialism, except that Hitler banned usury and fiat currency, and that some form of credits were used to provide everyone with the basic standards of living (like a proto UBI).

Enlighten me please, I genuinely don't see any difference between nat soc and commies except for those core (but admittedly important) differences.
Sell me on nat socialism, tell me why it's better than communism or the free market (true free market, because I believe corporations are a construct of the state and not a product of the free market).

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Other urls found in this thread:

nseuropa.org/English/Social_Welfare_In_Germany.pdf
nseuropa.org/English/German_Economic_Policy.pdf
bitchute.com/video/NzeOCU2UbNEt/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>Nas soc love UBI
>socialists hate UBI
That’s the difference

That's the only difference? What about regulating corporations or the free market?
Do nat socs support welfare for the poor? Or does it stop at UBI?

They don't believe in a stateless classless society in which the means of production are communally owned by the entirety of the planet. They believe in nationalism and private property, with various controls to keep people from going crazy.

I.e. UBI

UBI and universal healthcare is all that matters as long as corporations are behaving within the realm of morality

Do national socialists believe in property taxes?
Like do I own my land or do I have to pay a property tax to a bureaucratic entity (like in feudalism) and if I don't, I lose my home and the land I've worked?
I'm not inherently opposed to all taxes, but I find income and property taxes to be particularly tyrannical in that my labor and my home (and my livelihood if I own a farm/commercial property) can be taken away if I fail to make my annual payments to said bureaucracratic feudal lord.

I don't think corporations will ever behave in the realm of morality given that they're legally designed to reduce/remove liability for the actions of their owners.
But thank you, UBI and Nat Healthcare are core tenants to nat socialism. That's an important distinction for sure.

Sauce?

Nat soc is laissez-faire up until you attempt degeneracy or harm the race

Socialism is for fags

Got it here a while back. Idk who she is. Sorry.

99% of taxes are modern govt bloatage

National Socialism means you can open any busy so much as it doesn't harm the state.
Communism means its the state that tells you to open the business.

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In natsoc there are no jews, niggers, homos, trannies, etc.
Everything that annoys you is gone, it's a literal paradise

NATIONALISM
Survival of OUR RACE.
No jews in power. No niggers shitting your country up. No disgusting homo-faggotry. Europeans rule their OWN countries instead of jews. No destruction of European race.
Economically balanced with national needs over everything.

Nat soc isn't just a economical system and shoudn't be seen as one.
It''s a political an economical system,but it is also a way of live.
Finding purpose in live and igniting love for your kin and hate for those who threaten you and yours

but that's wrong, UBI is primarily a left thing
occasionally a libertarian thing.

The economic policies of Nazi Germany were fluid and there's no strong consensus as a matter of National Socialist doctrine. The best way to describe the sense of economy is "do what works, for the best outcomes of the people". In the case of Nazi Germany they did believe in and apply property taxes to certain higher-value areas like industrial/manufacturing plots. There were other places where property taxes either didn't apply or were effectively negligible.

Generally though yes, if you had a profitable enterprise you'd be expected to pay taxes. National Socialism believes in free enterprise to an extent, but also believes in social responsibility.

first things first....
do you mean Nat Soc as in Nazis (fascism) or actual Nationalism paired with Socialism?
the Nazis appropriated "socialism" because it was popular.

>t. nazb*l

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Actual National Socialists: Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, pretty much all "Democratic Socialists" and "Social Democrats" ascribe to traditional tenets of both Nationalism and Socialism.

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Like I said, I'm not against all taxes on principle, I just find income and property taxes to be particularly tyrannical.
But I appreciate the explanation.
Is there anything in that pragmatism that could be defined as strictly "nat soc" policy?

Read this OP
nseuropa.org/English/Social_Welfare_In_Germany.pdf
nseuropa.org/English/German_Economic_Policy.pdf

>free market
this concept is a philosophical paradox. there is nowhere that has ever existed that both had markets and did not have a state. the state not only does the important job of setting the rules of markets and arbitrating them which is implicitly needed for a market to be maintained.... but it is also quite clearly the starting point of markets: the states demands of tax are always the introductory point of a market where only certain people have access to the class of goods that the tax is being asked in (in the case of sovereign currency, the state itself makes the thing it demands) creating the need for those without direct access to the class of good to serve the needs of those who have access, creating markets in it's wake.

without a state to compel markets into existence people tend to just produce what they need/want and share things among their local community with the implicit social contract that others in the community will share with them in kind.

Border control, ethnic consciousness, a eugenically-driven approach to the welfare state, conception of the family rather than the individual as the base unit of society, laws regulating social life in accordance with conventional morality rather than in direct opposition to it, replacement of foreign aid with domestic propgrams, I could go on.

In what ways are they similar except for the broad strokes that the state protects workers and has a safety net in place for those who need it?

>I could go on
Please do. I'm not challenging anyone here, I'm genuinely curious about this topic.
Like I said in the OP, I've read a lot and nothing seems very concrete. Which is strange given how strictly people try to define their given economic models they support. I'm even 2/3rds if the way through Mein Kampf and I haven't read a satisfactory explanation so far.
I'm willing to accept the (above) leaf's explanation that it's less about following a theoretical model and more being pragmatically focused on using the economy to benefit the people and the nation first and foremost, but if you have further details you could share I'd genuinely appreciate hearing them for a variety of reasons.

Let me be clear so you know I'm not just baiting or trolling, I've always been a Pat Buchanan (populist) conservative economically, so some elements of nat soc policy appear to align with my positions, but it's hard to be sure given how vague it all is.
I realize this is potentially due to suppression of information over the years (Jews can't have a system that apparently bans usury and market speculation being discussed can they?), so that's why I'm asking here.
If you have anything I can read let me know.

Thanks, I will.

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Not being concrete is the point. Fundametal to national socialism is a shift in mindset to viewing the economy as a tool for the wellbeing of the nation, not as an important thing in and of itself. The fact is that circumstances change, our understanding changes, and it's naive to think you can simply settle on a specific economic policy and have it work forever.
NatSoc economics are flexible by nature. If the people are best served by reducing regulations, or imposing new ones or tightening the ones already in place...you can do that. Whereas a capitalist or a marxist economy will write off some of their options on ideological grounds, appealing to spooks like GDP or income equality as proxies for the best interests of actual flesh and blood people, a NatSoc government is meant to be more flexible.

God almighty that’s a bad bitch! Pls gib

Property taxes are an effort to keep any person from being able to claim their land is exempt from local, state or federal law, much like we see now with private clubs and liquor laws in dry cities/counties. It's also to keep land from being passed via death by the previous owner's will without stipulation, having a poverty-tier person with 3000 acres is wasteful in government's eyes.

i did not read your post. who is the chick? what a fucking waste.. gorgeous ass girl, lovely body, gets a dumb fuck juice tattoo on her.. ruined. i am all for white pride and being proud of my heritage and religion which is American/German/Irish Catholic.. but why the fucking symbol that my American ancestors died fighting against.. when will fuck tards realize this symbol does nothing but make you look like a fuckin retard? seriously lame.

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YEP
IT'S BOOMER TIME

>Mein Kampf
you're not going to find anything on actual nationalism or socialism in there.
it's the "Audacity of Hope" of fascism.

Extremely small-brained approach. Extent of state power is a poor way to categorise political systems because state power is how political systems sustain themselves. By your chart, the left-right divide is simply a measure of pragmatism, with further right ideologies simply being those less committed to perpetuating themselves, and presumably less convinced of their own rightness. Why would you leave space for competition if not because you doubt yourself?
Capitalism and national socialism share space on the "right" because they recognise the essentially hierarchical nature of reality, whereas the left rejects this for an egalitarian approach. Totalitarianism is neither here nor there.

wut

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Your forgetting one thing ..the genetics ,so really not at all

national socialism the government controls critical things like banking, energy, transportation and housing while permitting private economic activity for the rest
this is achieved through heavy regulation and partnerships with businesses

communism the government controls literally everything and any private economic transaction has to be black market
there's not supposed to be any money or any companies so everything has to be done via some bureau

I don't really give a shit what the government calls itself at this point. We need to address the birth rates, and we need to remove the groid. There are deeper issues of course like the infinite cycle of debt from the fed res and banks, but the two former are legitimate existential threats that will result in the end of civilization unchecked.

muh genetics
this is how fascism goes from "we're national socialists!" to "we're ethnic nationalists!" to "we're genetic internationalists!" to "we're nuking the planet until there is nothing left!"

I'd call it pretty essential reading because he does a good job laying out the nature of Weimar Germany's crisis, from which you can draw parallels to today. Obviously if you stop there you'll find yourself directionless and frustrated, but I found it a fantastic resource for articulating my gut feelings about the modern west and putting them into context.

Shit image, faggot.

The symbol makes you uncomfortable because of all the indoctrination

if you find Hitty's brainlet prison diary ramblings as a "fantastic resource" you're on a sure path to success.

You can't talk about corporatism without talking about government. It's the only reason I posted this particular graph, governments are created and sustained by their people. Last one posted by anarchofag was good, I just didn't have it.

>not being concrete is the point
I can accept this. I suppose I'm struggling with the concept that government would ever adapt to changing markets effectively (or quickly) enough.
Like take the videogame loot box shit.
These are obviously detrimental to children in that they're gambling (and they inherently reduce the value of the product given to the customer). And yet, only now is Washington even beginning to discuss this topic.
It was obvious to everyone what it was, and yet nothing was done for a while decade.
Similarly, what's happening with the internet social media giants has been obvious for about 5 years now, and nothing was done. Now that the damage has been done, it could take years to recover the lost ground from banning of youtube channels and what not.
I suppose my biggest concern/fear lies in the fact that while a benevolent "dictator" like Hitler could use this system to support the people (as he did), it could also be usurped by less scrupulous people to rule over everyone without a care for their interests. Germany might have done amazingly under Hitler, but say they had not lost, after he had died, what kind of leader would have followed him?

That's not to say that the USA or the UK is any better, despite the promises of a constitution prohibiting such evils as we see today (proving its ineffectiveness).

>we're nuking the planet till there is nothing left
>implying it's possible in the era of mutually assured destruction
>implying it would be a bad thing if it were possible
have heterosexual sex, antifa

Replace workers with race and there you go

>You can't talk about corporatism without talking about government
sure. but "corporatism" is just a symbolic fallguy for the ills of capitalism. there is no corporatism or crony capitalism and so on, capitalism is a system of unsustainable expansionary growth... the ills are effects of the core of capitalism not deviations of it.

is anyone this retarded?
considering this is a us flag I assume yes

just read a book you fucking nigger

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I paid off my mortgage, but I could still lose my home. It seems inherently wrong.
I'm not working and saving to eventually sell this house to buy some land in the country so I can start a small livestock farm and try to become self sufficient.
But if I buy that land, build a house and then start a business, I could lose everything if I can't afford to pay the property taxes. It could take me a couple years to become solvent enough that the farm would pay for itself and the taxes, so until then I'll be forced to continue to work just so I don't lose my home.
It feels like I'm trying to walk up a down escalator and it feels exploitive and designed to prevent me from doing exactly what I'm trying to do.
That said, I'm not at all opposed to paying other kinds of taxes, and I'm not even opposed to a death tax, but the property and income taxes seem particularly aggregious to people who work every day and try to do better for themselves. All while niggers and others sit on their asses and rake in the government gibs.

im just describing the endgame of fascism.
fascism follows the same systemic flaw of capitalism as an unsustainable expansionary growth..... except instead of ~stuff~ it's product is hate, for every subdivision of people you successfully hate and liquidate another must be found to take it's place.

I am and yet the information about the specific details of nat soc Germany is lacking.
It's curious, don't you think?
Perhaps you could provide some information on this topic? Since you apparently already know everything there is to know about this subject.

no it just makes me sad to see people think it is a symbol to be proud of. it is not in my opinion. it does nothing to help white people have a sense of belonging. it does nothing but hinder people of all races.. its shows normies that come here the wrong fucking message. what did our American ancestors in World War 2 die fighting for? so some chick who has bad wiring can get a retard tattoo? i see all the ways the left and so many others are attempting to demonize white people for being white, and i agree it is wrong. but this symbol only helps them to prove their points. be proud of being white, be proud of yourselves and whatever accomplishments you have to show for in life but do it without hating others. it is just....sad.
you are only giving racists ammo when you do shit like what this girl did..

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>except that Hitler banned usury and fiat currency, and that some form of credits were used to provide everyone with the basic standards of living (like a proto UBI).

Yeah, except no. Forced labour and conquest briefly powered das Dritte Reich.. And then it was conquered itself.

>It's curious, don't you think?
its just seems akward to me that some people know this little, especially on Jow Forums

>Perhaps you could provide some information on this topic?
read the stuff, watch the speeches, its not hard

>Forced labour
>durrr 5 million people making tanks in military factory is what fuels the civilian industry for 120 million people

no it just makes me sad to see people think it is a symbol to be proud of. it is not in my opinion. it does nothing to help white people have a sense of belonging. it does nothing but hinder people of all races.. its shows normies that come here the wrong fucking message. what did our American ancestors in World War 2 die fighting for? so some chick who has bad wiring can get a retard tattoo? i see all the ways the left and so many others are attempting to demonize white people for being white, and i agree it is wrong. but this symbol only helps them to prove their points. be proud of being white, be proud of yourselves and whatever accomplishments you have to show for in life but do it without hating others. it is just....sad.
you are only giving racists ammo when you do shit like what this girl did.. (had to edit this)

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His "ramblings" on the failures of the Austro-Hungary Hapsburg government and the problems with Weimar Germany are very well detailed to be honest.
I find myself seeing absolute parallels to our modern economies and governments in his explanations of what he lived through.
Agree with his conclusions or not, but to simply dismiss the content of his observations is pretty fucking retarded dude.

Didn't feel like writing a wall but I know. You won't find any system without fault though, capitalism at its core is no more than people placing collective value on desired objects and trading them for other goods. It frankly should've stayed that simple and in some ways it still is, what has changed is the number of processes between determining value and exchanging for goods.

>inherently wrong
I'm sympathetic to that. It's an incentive to keep people working throughout life as long as possible, there is no "retirement" in that sense.

>literal memeflag

Someone always has to be on top kiddo. I used to think like you, until I realized how truly idiotic it is to essentially seek the destruction of the West so that even more oppressive and unsustainable nations (specifically China and Russia) can take its place as "bully".

But what do I know, I'm just some stupid old fash! I havent even had sex with a guy so I can't possibly understand your radical ideas formed by watching Noam Chomsky on Netflix and discussing it on Reddit.

I dont know why it's called property tax, because people misunderstand its use all the time. It really should be called a city tax. We all pay federal, state, and city tax. City tax is probably the most beneficial so I'm all for it.

Thanks jordan peterson

How would the police and fire departments get paid without property taxes?

To be completely honest, the Pic was chosen to get eyes on my thread.
Jow Forums is so full of nigger porn, slide shit, and other trolling that I used said Pic to draw attention. And it's a common tactic here dude, don't get your panties in a bunch.
Ever wonder why so many threads begin with a Pic of a cute chick in the OP? It's because we've learned to adapt our posting techniques as this place has gotten shittier and shittier.

Why don't you get over your butt hurt at the Pic and share your opinions man? You seem like a traditional American conservative, so surely your opinions would add to the conversation.

Op if you want to know more about the german economy under the nsdap read Hjalmar Schacht.

normally i would not bother responding to a meme flag pleb but i am bored.. is that all ya got faglet?

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>>Forced labour
Yes. By Germans, by civilians from occupied states (including +-500.000 Dutch), POWs, Jews and fuck knows who else..
>>durrr 5 million people making tanks in military factory is what fuels the civilian industry for 120 million people

No, it doesn't. That's why there was also rationing for just about everything worth having, from fuel to food to cigarettes.. Not even to mention the seizeing of goods and commodities.. Horses, bicycles, motorvehicles, eggs, butter. It was shit, and it didn't function even with all the free labour they 'acquired'.

i realize you chose the pic to draw attention.. you think this is my first day?
i am addressing the picture. butthurt? do not flatter yourself man =]

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So they only really believed in private property as long as it benefited the public's opinion of leadership. Is that right?

Watch this video on the Nazi Economy by Cultured Thug.

bitchute.com/video/NzeOCU2UbNEt/

and i am sharing my opinion.. just not on retard socialism..yet..

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>tfw no nice tits Nazi gf

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imagine seeing that picture for the first time in 2019, imagine being this new

Democratic Socialism = Marxist Socialism carried through with democratic methods as means to an end
National Socialism = German Volkism, a form of Fascism focused on the well-being of the people, while rejecting Democracy, Liberalism and Communism entirely

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m8 it was a totalitarian system run on theft, conquest and FORCE. All other economical theory relating to Nazi Germany is just that: Theoretical.

I'm sure other forms of taxation could be pursued. Local sales taxes, etc.
And thanks for bringing this up, because here's the other issue I have with property taxes:
I live in a town where property taxes are used to fund police and fire and schools. But down the road (thanks to Obama's HUD program to move niggers into traditionally blue collar white areas via the section 8 program) there is a string of large apt complexes that are full of niggers.
Now these niggers get all the benefits of my property taxes but don't have to pay a dime. And while they get to vote in our local elections, the property owner doesn't, because he/she doesn't reside in he city.
Now, it's another question about said land owner's ethics for accepting section 8 niggers in a historically white city, but it doesn't preclude the point that these niggers pay nothing and gain value from my city, while I could lose my house if I don't pay my property taxes.
If the police are being used more and taxes are being raised to cover these expenses the niggers are creating, then how it is fair that the property owners have to carry the burden of taxation while the more transient don't?

Thanks FREN.

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The nationalism and non-marxist socialism are necessary. While that might sound silly/obvious, what I mean is most of the associated economic interventions or limitations. For example, the foreign ownership of German land or ownership of businesses was extremely limited. It's going to be a staple of most of what we call coherently national socialist for the government to intervene on foreign business arrangements they consider dangerous. Libertarians and other hardcore individualists sperg out over this kind of thing because its fundamentally an illiberal idea where its believed the state/the people have precedence over the individual.

>Enlighten me please, I genuinely don't see any difference between nat soc and commies

agreed op not butthurt just depressed at how stupid some people are.. especially blondes with perfect titties

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This sounds familiar... What does Jow Forums classify Israel as?

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They all secretly want the nigga dick.

just fyi.

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There was kind of a complex self-reinforcing effect and parsing out "National Socialism" from "German National Socialism" is a task in itself. National Socialism divorced from the German context is basically the idea that you should do well by your people however that is necessary, with some beliefs about race and stuff included in there. Germans have a particular German culture/history, and that doesn't exactly translate to other nations. English or American National Socialism would probably have a lot of differences from German National Socialism, on account of the nationalism aspect being about reinforcing the individual qualities of different nations.

Hitler had a view of the proper German as a peasant similar in some respects to the American settler. In his view it was important to secure private farm/home ownership, but that had to be held in accord with the common good. The same way you couldn't just hop on a horse and run across America back in the day claiming to own all the property in north america as a single person. The land had to be parceled to permit the many to own their own parcels, and the state was typically the guarantor that such a process would be resolved orderly.

You can own a factory or house, but that ownership is subject to the greater good. You can't just own a factory and turn it into a bioweapons plant, or a gay bar, or whatever. You are expected to make concessions to the greater good from time to time, like expanding or reducing production in accord with some expectation. The idea is that its a collectivist account of the economy where your typical capitalist serves a social role as a bean counter, work organizer, manufacturer leader, etc. They aren't individuals who just have property in a vacuum exercising their rights to do whatever they want.

tl;dr
yes

The idea of National Socialism is not the "Socialism", it means establishing a "society" based on solidarity, that is build on the "nation", i.e. one ethnic group as a whole.

The economy should only serve the nation that is the people and their state, the government serves as lobby for national interest and bans, nationalizes, privatizes or subsidizes individual businesses, depending on their use.

Generally National Socialism supports or accepts the notion of socio-economic classes, like the aristocracy, urban bourgeoisie, industrial proletariate, rural peasantry or economic moguls, as Long as class differences serve to the benefit of the nation and don't divide it.

Industries and business would stay private and with low-taxes, though they had to ensure good worker's conditions. Banks would be nationalized, while unions were banned and the state was actively employing people.

Economic freedom was present, though as long as you were contributing to society in some way.
Instead of redistribution, National Socialists were corperative and used the tax revenue from the free market economy, which they aided through protectionist action and monetary monopoly, to fund state and social projects, which would as well aid the economy, through reducing inflation, increasing employment and increasing productivity, as well as the ability of the citizens to spend their money on consumer goods and housing. Every man was obligated into education, national labour service, military service, then buying their own land and founding a family, which they would support on their own, though subsidized by the state. poor would generally be aided by organized charity, then mostly employed in state projects.


What Marxist Socialism democratically wants to achieve, is to offer citizens state-funded welfare, child benefit, healthcare, pensions and education, while increasing taxes on rich citizens and privatizing big business, also instituting a one-party republic.

Is the family unit communsit too, retard?

I too find tattoos on women to be particularly degenerate. Glad my girl is 100% tattoo free.

Where did I say/not say that? I believe the family unit to be (at least) as important as the individual, if not more so.

i like tattoos.. i have many.. just not gay ass swastikas.. but yeah women not having them is kind of elite now. i am an ass man and so sick of big fat dump truck asses on these skags these days, i never though i would want to see little perfect fat model slender type poopers ever again; now i do.. bring back smaller asses.. make asses great again. these chicks all copied the kardashians in some form.. all of them.. so.. boring.

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>Based. What made you decide to get a swastika tattoo?
>Well, I was raped by a pack of niggers when I was 11 and-
>Oh, gotta' take this call, gimme a sec...

so we can agree that Capitalism is king and socialism in all forms is the brain child of dip shits?
what do we do about taking care of the sick and elderly?

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