PROGRAMMING AND STEM ARE FAILED MEME SCAMS

>big tech companies
You do realise this concept is still very fucking new. Facebook is only 15-years-old, and most "big tech companies" are around that age. What's happening is that the ways of doing things related to programming have matured; the industry is still trying to find the perfect model, framework, and design pattern, and each year some stranger with a better grasp on those 'processes' chisels in stone that it's the best thing ever. But in truth, Facebook didn't run like it did today when it started; it started out as a huge fucking mess and slowly evolved into what it is today. The reason why I can't build a Facebook today is because there are probably hundreds of devs with much higher IQs than me who are now in on the ground floors at FB and Google, with the resources to do in one day what would probably take me two years.

Truthfully, programming has become a pain the more I learn how to refine my processes. I spend more time wondering if I named something as well as I could or whether my flows could be made any more efficient that I lose sight of the intended goal of getting a prototype done and out the door.

>cont

It used to be you could write something up, get it out there, draw in a crowd and then refine your work. However, as the internet has become a huge fucking industry that's still maturing, all the good ideas are taken, so if you're going to put something out there you have to be paranoid that some other dev with no clue or ideas of their own won't just steal your concept and build and release something similar or even better to what you did. It's as much as a race as domain squatting and is much harsher because your idea needs to be fleshed out well enough that you can maintain a crowd. Otherwise, a Google can waltz in on their worst day and take your idea, run with it and build something immaculate that would overshadow what you've done on your best day. The only silver lining is that if what you have has potential, the likes of Google will try to buy you out. However, that just means your million dollar idea will become someone else’s dream; likely someone who doesn’t even know how to write code.

>all the good ideas are taken
lol, all the food is invented yet people still start restaurants

Sure, if distance wasn't a limiting factor. That factor is the only thing stopping Gordon Ramsey from being the Google of the fine dining world. Sure, he has his restaurants and subsidiaries/branches, but not enough to put one on every block in every country.

With the internet, even the niggereyst of niggers in nogland can access the same Google as you or I.

BETTER VERSION OF PIC

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You're certainly right about the fact that increasing complexity devalues individual accomplishment.
>inb4 startups
How many of those actually create something? They either fail or get bought out by Google.

yo

Programs are easily copied though.
Restaurants are still relevant because they require a trained staff to produce each product they make.

I certainly believe there will be an eventual endpoint in programming or rather a point in time which programming will cease to be a field that provides a significant number of jobs, except for the most skilled of programmers who would be working on very complex work. AI isn't going to be written by armies of code monkeys. If AI ever reaches the point that researchers want it to then it will be able to write its own code or rather create the code from a solution that its owner wants. Oh, and it'll be able to create and compile that code much faster than a team of programmers.

there's a mcdonalds at every block, does everyone dine at mcdonalds?

Ecclesiastes 10:19

"Money is the answer for everything"

learn a trade
get a farm
get a trad wife
have kids
and fuck this system

Employers take different kinds of programming experience so seriously it makes me cringe

>1 post by this id

programming is a trade, as things continue evolving into the future it will become as pervasive as wiring

Moortugal

Also, this relates to The Bell Curve a bit.
As IQ sorting becomes more efficient, inequality will massively increase. It'll eventually get to the point where if you aren't a 150 IQ genius, you are incapable of doing any meaningful work.
Industrial society is cancer.

Most "I'm a programmer" normies don't actually know shit. And I am not even talking about easily google-searched syntax when you forget, I mean just out right lack of basic knowledge on how to best apply the practice in different circumstances.

Indie game devs (who don't make shovelware shit) and run their own business still do good, but fuck being a wagie in the field.

I don't believe it will unless you believe there will never be advancements in AI that allow programs to write other programs and with more efficiency.
If google can have their current programmers build an AI that can cut half the jobs at the company do you believe they wouldn't do it?

>once you've learned the syntax there's nothing more you can do
That's kind of silly is it not? Once you learn the syntax of English you can still continue to write amazing books.
>Oh but someone else already did it
Who gives a fuck. Make your own thing, be creative, and you too can make it.

What this guy gets right:
Learning to produce working software is dead simple and every retard can do it. This is due to modern tools and frameworks, as well as a shitton of basic introductory material

What this guy gets wrong:
While it is simple to become a code-monkey, programming still has a lot of depth beyond that. Very few of these kind of programmers actually know what they're doing beyond writing something that works with existing tools and libraries. For example, anyone can write a simple Web-API. But code-monkeys would never think about specifying the API protocol as formal grammar and use language theoretic security.

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TL;DR

Im a brainlet, can someone help...

I’m fine with basics and can write small scripts in general, but I don’t know how to get better. Like I understand loops/arrays/objects/instancing/data structures etc...

But I literally don’t know how to do anything, just frozen.....

Pair programming would help IMO.

Any advice please

Then tell me a good paying job where I don't need to talk or socialize with people.

>1 post by this ID
>leaf
yeah that's gonna be a no from me dawg

I don't know who's the soul behind it but he must be so triggered.

>the problem with programming is that there is nothing to learn
I stopped reading right there.

Go to github find some small app, music player or whatever that uses your language and try to fix the bugs listed in the github issues.

>I spend more time wondering if I named something as well as I could
I feel your suffering

Yea it's not even a secret. Programmers are always joking about how they get everything from other people online.

Shut up paki get out

But you learn that way (unless you're a pajeet who just mindlessly copypastes).

>pogramming in GO is equivalent to programming in C++
Wrong

>>once you've learned the syntax there's nothing more you can do
>t. pajeet
This.
OP show hands.

There's nothing wrong with this. It's okay to use other people's technology to create your own. Should an artist create their own versions of the paint brush? Is their art any less valuable for using other people's technology and methods?

>leafnoises

You need to learn how to make things.

What you've done is learn a 'dictionary' but you barely know how to construct a sentence let alone a 400page novel. Have you made anything? Do you know UML? Do you understand design patterns? Also what language?

OP from pic related is a larper and clearly does not have a slightest clue on what he is talking about.

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Problem is the average little company there's no time to invent everything by yourself. You must take it from somewhere or your company will probably fail. If your client needs a thing, it needs it fast, usually.

No, no, no,

Just front end, js/python.

Although I don’t have a problem reading anything. Usually can determine what’s happening in any language

But ya you’re 100% right. I don’t know how to make a sentence or say anything.

Programming work for designers and engineers who need to automate engineered to order products quickly within a program that has a robust API to allow for it.
T. Design Engineer

He has a point though it doesnt really say anything groundbreaking. Essentially, programming has been overspecialized and made so accessible that you end up being in all likeliness another brick in the wall, rather than a truly meaningful programmer

STEM includes actual sciences btw, which is not something that can be replaced so easily by a few thousand pajeets

>I learned how to write "Hello world".
>Now I can program avionics for passenger aircraft
People who don't know what they don't know are embarrassing.

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Not everyone wants or needs to be that to be successful.

For example.

Many are great automotive technicians who are highly paid and likely much more experienced and have expertise junior engineers don’t have.

However, they have no desire to be head of engineering at Tesla/Lambo/Ferrari etc..

There are degrees to everything.

Some people want to write apps or web apps for a business etc..

There is some truth to this, I am studying C# for [spoiler] game design [/spoiler] and once you learn the fundementals everything else is pretty much Do A. Then B then C.

in a limited sense they are correct. Once you get the basic fundamentals, most of your work involves leveraging an api. To become a good programmer however, you need to have a solid math background and understanding of data structures.

> (OP)
This is why you become an actuary or accountant and not a software """engineer"""

>Go to Uni get BA/bachelors in Comp. Science (5 years)
>programmer from 2006-2015
>peaked at £43k p/yr
>back pains almost constantly for 3 of those years
>did after work plastering course over the span of a year
>2019, working 3-4 days a week, 10-3pm; making around the same

Cannot stress enough not to fall for the programming meme; maybe if you live near google/FB and the like with their extreme salaries.. But you will NEVER find that here in the UK

Yeah the reason people are into programming is because of "guilt-based societies" not because it's more or less the ONLY realistic option for someone to actually make great money when they're an autist gamer and aren't interested in anything other than computers. It's because of guilt, not because of the salaries and job demand.

Couldn't even bring myself to read through it, there's jsut so many things wrong with it. Pic very fucking related. People use the word programming for being code monkeys at worst, or senior programmer in a given language (or few languages). Both are correct in that "they write code", but they are software developers, not programmers. Programming as a concept existed in ancient times. It's simply scientific, mathematical research on set theory and algorythms. That's programming. Us using it mainly to do software or hardware developement has nothing to do with the term itself.

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If you're stuck at making 48k a year after programming for fucking 10 years maybe the issue is with you

I would argue algorithms. Efficient algorithms is the key to great programming. That takes awhile to learn, and you have to purposefully learn it.

People are still falling for the programming meme because of stories of because getting into the industry around 2012-2013 when they were actually getting paid absurd amounts of money for doing easy shit like web developing.

Then the libshits and trannies thought it'd be a good idea to push STEM to everyone and "just code bro" and "we need more coders so just bring the pajeets cuz the field is still growing bro" and now pretty much all of STEM with exception of medicine and math/physics is all trivialized. Engineering is a meme now. CS is a meme now. Lab sciences are a meme now unless you want to be a doctor. Literally all STEM jobs are shit now unless you're a 150 IQ math/ physics professor or quantitative analyst.

Maybe the push to go to mars will change stuff since I don't think they allow non native citizens to work in a country's rocket program.

OP is a noob. The part about being overwhelmed by knowledge on stack exchange was all i needed to know. Most of the questions on stack exchange are noob shit, or incomplete, or tentative, etc.

Cope. Software """engineering""" is a meme now. If you decide to learn how to "kode" or do aCS bachelors in the current year you're a literal retard

I just wanna make shit. I have no desire to program for others.

There many good woodworkers who don’t do it professionally etc.

feel free to try and find your American wages for programming here in the UK; it doesn't happen.. You might be able to find 70k after benefits and bonus,
mine too was also just over "£50k" after these where factored in.

But oh, whats that cash in hand? And i only declare some of it? Enjoy working double hours at the desk for the boss/government.

>mathematical research on set theory
You noob. We use category theory and type theory now.

You're a normie cunt, programming isn't about writing it's about logic

Imagine making 43k/yr while working 20 fucking hours a week and complaining about it/thinking you are being undercompensated lmfao

Programming relies heavily on abstraction, just as many other skilled areas of work. We are building ontop of other frame works, and using APIs, and STL, because there's no reason to reinvent the wheel and often it's already been done better. It saves time etc. Java is basically stitching things together with very little thought.

My coworker is current PhD in comp sci.

He says it’s simple, he’s just a fancy assembler lol.

Oh boy, tell me how groups and rings are not sets, moving from one to another are not functors or applicatives.

>Java is basically stitching things together with very little thought.
Good programmers design good APIs. Designing a good API is a type of architecture, or the arrangement of pieces in a complex design space.

>moving from one to another are not functors or applicatives.
Just remember bud, in cat theory we have no notion of set, except for the fact that the objects of a category form a set, and a hom is just typed a set of functions, and...

>front end js
That's great, what do you want to create?
You can get really creative, I know js very well, used angular, vue, ember, backbone and react/ redux/ flux/ react router, in the past. es6 + is great, nice familiar syntatic sugar to reflect oop class paradigms. Presumably you know how to make State persist with js; have you used a view engine like React / Redux ?

You said restaurants not fast food chains.
Analogies aren’t arguments.
Most good ideas are taken and the Internet means many people can access them. It doesn’t mean people can’t succeed, it just means people like YOU (99% of people) won’t and CANNOT by definition

>Efficient algorithms is the key to great programming.
Algos are a different area of research.
Most are already solved, if you've not read and understood Cormen's algos, either you CS degree was useless, or your self study has been sparse.

Life doesn’t work like this.

Son your 18 yr old now
You don't have a father who will teach you professions because family is ruined
Yuo must choose a career

Will you pick programing because you have a computer at home
Or will you pick engineering, architecture, welding, agroculture or any other stuff that isn't lame programming, because you clearly have a garage with a lot of instruments and a ton of money to buy materials or seeds or whatever to practice all this?

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>t. pajeet coder

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It's literally the only non slave-tier work available in this shithole. But according to Jow Forums, since it's basedfied or whatever, I should just become a NEET or even better - work some miserable 16h/day physical job instead. This board is retarded beyond any hope, fuck you all.

Each programming job was a 9-5:30; i'm now working those hours plastering; i thought that was obvious?

true but there is still a spectrum of good and bad programmers.

kys

glad im not the only one

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That wall of text is more reddit than reddit. Suck my dick.

You don’t need to be 150 iq lol

This is so incredibly wrong. There’s almost too much to learn and this idiot has no idea what they are talking about

>we have no notion of set
Then you are as retarded as you sound. A category is nothing but a set and some mappings (eg.: a ring has two of them, one additive, one multiplicative (in nature), both adhering to a specific set of rules that make a ring a ring). "A hom" does not have a type, it's a mapping (a functor, usually) from one set to another, special in a way that it does not leave the groupoid's set, it's sompatible with that given mapping, or the ring's, but then it also needs to be compatible with both additive and multiplicative mappings (and distributions of them). I agree that absracting and generalising are both useful, but not if you lose sight of what you're even talking about along the way.
One of the most scientific but least thought of side of programming is proofing, either by hand or using some lang (agda, coq, etc), and it comes down to logic and sets, relations and functors. I don't expect you have ever done lf or sp of any program, neither on paper or in code.

>glad im not the only one
Naming things properly is important, as the name is supposed to convey the actual semantic of what you're trying to achieve. Bad names = bad semantics = misunderstood code.

Dude I was joking. Holy fuck!

Yeah, he’s not even arguing about STEM, he’s arguing about EVERYTHING taught in school. Shit can can be learned in a week, yet it takes a whole semester. It’s all a scam... books, classes etc.

lol, see the problem is you see tech from the eyes of sci-fi, i see your magic AI as a service whose customer service is outsourced to an indian call center

canned solutions stop working when the thing becomes integral, then you need "a guy"

analogies are arguments, if what you said held true as a law of life then everyone would eat at mcdonalds

>either by hand or using some lang (agda, coq, etc)
I've programmed a compiler for a Martin-Lof type theory. The language was at least as powerful as agda, only more elegant. Maybe someday I'll put it on github. So ya, I'm probably better than you.

Programming languages actually change in small an large ways pretty frequently which would mean you’d just have programmers updating the nex AI every version change instead of just having them make the program the AI is responsible for anyway, also it’s not a very reactive way to program at all and large changes in the market would leave you vulnerable on behind the curve

>Once you've learned the basic syntax of a langue (which should take one or two months tops) there is nothing more you can really do

lmao show me someone who can learn to program in 1-2 months, then write a single page web app that can handle a billion users per day.

That's a wall of text, I'm not reading your mental vomit.
Summarize it fucktard.

problem is that thr uk is too white
too much competition

As someone who does both network and systems engineering at a high level, I appreciate people that do programming. There can be good money in it, for sure.

Still though, your producing a product most of the time. The infrastructure portion of IT is pretty sweet and unboring.