Direct democracy

Interesting, did not know that. I've been talking to my friends (both politically active and not) about this topic for years, everyone seems interested but we don't have any sort of political movement for it here. Do you think the Estonian population is unified enough to make it effective and beneficial to circumvent the politicians there?

Have you been paying attention to Brexit Norbro? What happens with direct democracy is that they boil down a complex issue into a binary choice, and then when the outcome becomes clear, it goes back to a the old way of politicians bickering about what the question in the original referendum meant.

Idiotic, especially when you allow woman to vote, but with incompetent commie men too.
Generally only net tax payers should be allowed to vote(with the option to voluntarely pay the doffrence to reach the min. Required amount)

Personally I adore the Swiss system.
Would love to see it implemented here too, perhaps not in exactly the same form.
A recent state commission was established to figure out what measures NL should take to remain a proper rechtsstaat. One of their top recommendations was a system of binding corrective referendums. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Well, on a national level, in 2019, we voted about guns and the combined corporate taxes&pension reform, in 2018, we voted about if cows ought to keep their pointy horns or not, if our own national laws should supersede the international laws and the bill of human rights or not that we agreed upon, if our social insurance companies get to use their own private detectives, if we ought to support more bike trails, if Switzerland ought to focus on more "fair food", if we ought to try to be as independent regarding food or not, if we ought to get rid of accounting money, gambling, eliminating the fee for financing our national radio and TV services.

It seems as if the political situation is getting more polarized by the day but from what I remember, the overwhelming majority of people supported implementing something like this. I don't have the poll on me at the moment though. It will need some constitutional amendments however and it seems like it might only happen in the next parliamentary cycle if the current order of things holds up.

Decent system in a homogenic nation, worthless in the face of globohomo. Within the next decade, Switzerland is probably going to introduce voting rights for foreign residents. Hail Honkler.

I actually disagree on the idea that it only works in homogenic societies. We accept even the stupid poorfag cantons as being relevant.

Democracy, in any form, ultimately results in tyranny of the manjority.
In other words, 7 cannibals and a vegetarian deciding what's for dinner.

ok

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Unless power is devolved to different regions with different needs as opposed to some Politburo style central government

It is the same in Belgium, that is why Flanders wants to adopt it. To be fair, I think it would be a great system, having lived in Geneva for 1.5 years. You guys do everything better.

Doesn't work in Jew vassal states

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This was my impression as well. Apart from gun control and the prohibition of building minarets on mosques, what are some other notable decisions that have been put to a national vote in Switzerland?

Yeah, good point. Referendums and direct democratic votes seem to be chaotic if there's not any restrictions in place. Ideally you would want to have some criteria for elemental knowledge about the issues that are voted on, coupled with fines/sanctions on spreading false information in the run-up to the vote, but I've never heard of such a system actually being implemented

>all these retarded and unsustainable policies
no wonder libya went bankrupt and civil war erupted

80% of Americans are retarded. Democracy only means retards control everything.

The perhaps most relevant popular initiative in swiss history might be the vote of 1949, where the citzens voted for a return to direct democracy. It was accepted.

That's very interesting. I like the fact that you get to be directly involved in such a broad range of issues. Although i can imagine that the turnout and participation is probably skewed heavily towards those with vested interests or higher-than-average interest in a given topic.

People do complain about turnout to be rather low, which political theorists assume to be a result from our country having no real relevant problems, being rich and having high living standards, and perhaps a little bit too many votes on a national as well as state/cantonal level.
It would be nice if at least 60% of all voters would regularly vote, instead of 45 and less, but since voting is a right that you can use and not a duty you must participate in, it's the best we can get.

The elections will always be rigged. And then a Muslim pro immigration candidate will get in and everyone will assume people they don’t know voted for them

You would need to idiot-proof it first, maybe allowing only net taxpayers over 25 to vote, each bill could only be evaluated by persons directly involved or affected by it, peoole with conflicts if interest would be blocked from voting (contractors, government workers,...) and other rules to avoid a retard dictatorship.

I completely agree with setting restrictions for taxpayers, and I think 25 and up is a reasonable age-limit. There should also be an upper limit (let's say 75). The executive and/or parliament should also have some, restrictive, veto powers if they deem the process/vote to be faulty in any significant way

>no real relevant problems
it seems like your domestic population is being replaced at a faster rate than any other country in europe. when i visited switzerland last year, probably like 6/10 people in the street were "exotics".

Would that mean that only those who are 25 and older would have to serve in your military?

Swiss user here

Theoretically its the only "real Democracy" It is good as long as its coupled with ethnocentric propaganda and foreigners are not naturalized and females have no right to vote.

1. Problem => Woman can vote
2. Problem => Foreigners can vote

Now that there are more and more dual citizens and leftists it can become a nightmare.

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Where you visiting the bigger cities which are all hotspots for tourism?

Yes I think that makes sense, actually. In fact, most of our military is made up of adult professionals. 18-19 year olds often do a year of voluntary service in the army, but it's as much a chance to exercise, gain job opportunities and education, and fuck about while deciding what to do next, as anything else. But it is an interesting question, i'm still trying to orient myself on this topic

Why not show your flag here, user?

That's just not true. Yes, Zürich was overrun with shitskins and disgusting muzzies when i visited 4-5 years ago, but if you look at the proportions and the absolute numbers for the country as a whole then it's obviously nowhere near as dire as the situation in Sweden, Germany, the UK or France.

Because I am abroad

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Zudem werded Schwiizer au immer dümmer und hend keinerlei verständniss ver was ide welt abgaht. Die denked das so wies ide Schwiiz isch überall au so wäre wenn mer nur die ganze neger us de welt wuerd ine schwiizer Schuel tue.

Ah bon, je comprends.

>we voted about guns
Discount razorsfist aka styxhexenhammer666 talked about this.
What was the outcome?

We accepted the gun law reform.
Which ultimately simply means that you need a new piece of paper that says that you're responsible enough to keep your weapons safe. Oh yeah, and you need to shoot more often at shooting ranges.

Swiss were so absolutely retarded to vote to basically be regulated by the EU

Also they voted that their votes now could be overturned anytime by European judges

So... Now Switzerland is not a fully sovereign direct democracy anymore and everyone who says otherwise should be shot.

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People who net take from the state obviously are for more State and welfare, as well as more power by the state. To only allow net tax payers to vpte we need muh great purge first tho

Btw let me quickly shill the swiss .gg MDtvKp discord, despite being pretty sure, that you are allready on it.

Yes and that will never happen. The last of all countries is Switzerland where any type of "purge" will happen.

Man, you must be one salty fella.

I don’t think that the general public will ever vote on every bill purposed by Congress, and there are lots of them. What we would end up with is maybe a couple thousand people who are really interested in politics voting for our laws, and not the general public.

Representative democracy is good because the general public can vote on who they want to represent them, and those people can meet together in a relatively small room to talk things out and make compromise.

Thanks but I don't want nothing to do with it. Switzerland is a lost cause after its own people VOTED that their own initiatives can be rejected by EU judges.

I would argue that this is a level of stupidity and cuckoldry that proofs the average person should have absolutely no rights what so ever.

Yes this really was the last straw for me?

We cannot blame anyone for this but Swiss people themselves.

Oh, so not that much, since in the end you can keep your arms.
I hate the EU so much. They sent their representatives here to try and get our government to abolish the death penalty, which is by hanging. This is because of some about human rights.
Human rights has been corrupted into that stupid victimhood culture that's been plaguing western nations.

But thankfully, our government flatly refused because no one here is willing to accept a tax burden which will go to paying for the upkeep of a convicted murderer serving his/her life sentence.

Also the immigration thing. Where the Politicians refused to implement the will of the people...

There was a "Durchstungsinitiative" and Swiss voted against it.

hahahahahaa

Yes your Botswana government is definetly less brainwashed and more "Bauernschlau" than the average swiss person.

So you seem to be an unironic swiss nationalist party voter who keeps getting angrier and angrier.

Based and red pilled. Its sad that media has SHUT IT DOWN and never talk about it.

Also but not only. I was getting around by rent-a-car and got to see a bit of suburbian and provincial Switzerland and was left with the impression that diversity certainly has set foot there as well.

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This
Purge will eventually come, I am sure.
And when it is the loosers starving under communism

Any such system must be deployed in parallel to comprehensive education and media reform

Well it's kind of obvious. But im only getting angry whenever threads like this come up and I contemplate what has been VOTED into law in the past year.

Plato was 100% right in his "The Republic" and view on Democracy.

So what did you vote on the Gun law thing and Foreign Judges initiative?

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Yeah this guy is seething, obviously a tranny that hasn't chugged papist kike cum in about 12hrs

Look at France. It will go very far this communism and Switzerland has deep pockets to pay to keep the low caste people happy.

Switzerland now is some kind of hub for globalists corporations.

Do you vote for the party without giving a shit about who's on the list, or do you vote for specific politicians?

>7.72% muslims in Glarus
How did that happen?

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its the only acceptable way, every other nation gets cucked by their gov

I simply think most people don't understand what
"sovereignty" means

>the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.

>supreme power or authority.

>a self-governing state.

If the people vote that foreign judges have the power to overturn Initiatives that are voted for by the Swiss citizens, then Switzerland is not sovereign anymore.

And what makes me angry is that almost nobody seems to understand that.

As just has been demostrated by this guy saying the Gun vote was just about getting a piece of paper

No but you simply implied i am a "nationalist" there is no party with this exact name.

And if there is a initiative I don't care about what party is behind it it is about the will of the people

That is why it is a "direct democracy" and not "representative democracy" but you seem not to understand that like most Swiss people.

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>We cannot blame anyone for this but Swiss people themselves.
Actially, they gave women rights, and now women are destroying their culture resp civilisation just like everywhere else.

We're a semi-direct democracy.

But if you guys directly vote to let the EU/ECJ have some judicial authority or influence, as you say (sorry I'm quite green on the facts here), how is that not the will of the people and thus an instance of self-determination/sovereignty being expressed? I reckon that you're all for Swiss self-determination unless it goes against your own personal preferences and interests, and when outcomes are less preferable you screeech about foreign influence and muh voter turnout

>Would you welcome it or do you have less faith in the general population than in the politicians when it comes to deciding certain matters

For a small, high IQ alpine nation I'm sure its fine for most things, that is if women can't vote. From my understanding die Scwheiz was one of the last countries to give women the "right" to vote, most cantons in the 70s with one holdout (of course a German one) in 89 only through the jewdiciary, not a vote.

Remember that recently Switzerland just voted to further restrict their own firearm rights via a federal registry for weapons to be shared with the EU. Swissanons correct me if I'm wrong.

I think giving anyone with a pulse over the age of 18 a vote is beyond retarded. Even if its men only. I think an earned democracy is the only way it can work if we manage to rebuild shit post collapse.

This will require mandatory basic military training (not service, fuck training men to be zog fodder) for all able bodied males. The purpose of this is to beat the soi out of urbanites and teach them basic man shit that all fathers and grandfathers used to teach their progeny.

Reqs to vote, must meet all 4.

1. Pass basic training without issue (no awol)
2. Own land outright, not a (((mortgage))) owner
3. Have produced children in marriage
4. Pass a test, 1 time, much harder than current US naturalization test, which most white burgers as is couldn't pass. Euros I'm sure you have something equivalent.

In this way every voter would be a
Soldier
Land owner
Father
Roughly above 115 IQ

This does a few things. First it ensures voters aren't stupid enough to be gaslit by the (((media))) or anyone else. 2nd it ensures that all voters have a stake in the future of the nation. It also has a permanent healthy set of incentives for men to aspire towards. Nobody would be born with the ability to vote the second they turned 18, no matter who you were you would have to earn it.

Which Immigrant Groups do you hate the most? For me its a draw between albanians and Eritrea niggers.

Imagine being this retarded.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-48328867

Voters in Switzerland have backed a tightening of gun laws to conform with European Union regulations. Almost 64% of voters in Sunday's referendum supported tougher restrictions on semi-automatic and automatic weapons, final results show.

>to conform with European Union
>to conform with European Union
>to conform with European Union

What they explicitly said are that future changes in the gun laws of the European Union will be also changed in Switzerland.

> Not a sovereign state

We are not we were NOT before.

And you don't mind?

This is an important point. So i gather from this thread that it works, and obviously seems preferable to us foreigners who sign off all decision-making powers to retard politicians, but direct democracy has its clear limitations in terms of practicality and the policy outcomes it can produce

memeflaggot is mostly correct, though. the other guy is some lefty from the french speaking part.

Sei sicuro?

Well to explain it in a stupid way.

If you are a mentally retarded person in Switzerland you can:
>einen vormund beantragen
>apply for a guardian

One could argue that this is what Swiss voters did.

And yes since we are a direct democracy that is possible.

Its like Alladins telling the Jin in the Bottle with his first wish, that the Jin can decide to reject his next 2 wishes.

Btw this is a fountain depicting a jew. Just to show you how based the Swiss once were.

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ultimately it doesn't matter. your talking points are so repetitive, they're becoming recognizable to anyone lurking through more than one switzerland related thread.

This is why The Jews killed Gaddafi. Also he had begun orchestrating an "African Union" of which many North African countries signed up to join, that would begin printing its own currency to replace The US Dollar.

Now do you see why (((The International Bankers))) had to kill him?

If women, elderly/boomers (50+), shitskins/foreigners and illiterate men are foribdden to vote, then I am all for it.
If all those groups can vote, then I might as well not vote, because my vote doesn't make any difference, due to a simple fact that young white men make up less than 20% of the population, thus can never be a majority in any vote and statistically can never win.

Your democracy is wrong because it allows irrelevant/hostile people to vote. Women, old people, shitskins and dumb degenerates can't make informed decisions due to their lack of mental capacity, and whats worse - they are openly hostile towards white men, especially young ones, and wish to parasitise on our labour.
You don't need to ask their opinion, because you, young white males, make up the whole 80-100% of your countries military/law enforcement power. You protect them from foreign invasion and police their country, so you can enforce a law that will only allow young white males to vote.

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Just make a new referendum and try to convince the majority that this time, the new theoretical gun law reform is so terribad that it must be rejected. After all, according to the swiss nationalist party, the majority is always right.

Just going with the honk and leeching off the welfare(laundering income) would be my way to go

Gadaffi being killed was a good thing. He was mean to us Swiss and wished that we be divided up and be given to our neighbors. That earned him our eternal enmity.

Most of all I hate Swiss people who are leftists retards and vote for the destruction of our state. (Like this guy in the chat)

Albanians are based and watch out for their own interest while applying fascist strategies in street combat.

Eritreans simply come for free gibs which they get plenty of (Smart of then no?)

I truly despise these modern NU MALE Swiss voters more than anything.

Btw. Look how backwards Albania is in creating a commons.

I lived there actually and its pretty cool, but people hate the state but not the ethnic group.

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Thanks for actually clarifying your position user. I'm just as opposed to the EU and its creeping power and jurisdictional overreach as the next guy. We've voted "no" to membership on two different occasions, but still implement more EU laws, directives and regulations than most full member states and our government fawns over the Brussels elite. So I can absolutely sympathize with the feeling of your people and whoring the country out to the (((EU))) in the name of good intentions and/or for personal gain.

That pic is based, I think I've seen something similar in Spain

That pic is absolutely based by the way.

>I lived there actually
Literally why?

People like this guy are exactly the people i despise. Here you see how they are just look at the stuff he wrote.

Leftist swiss try to be funny and make retarded jokes like the Nu males meme smiling on the photograph.

Be careful, user. Being really angry on the internet is not good for your health.

Why not. I can go wherever I want and in Albania i could hoot guns outside very cheaply and they have good food and bakeries and everything is cheap. Great weather...

Also its kind of libertarian.

Yes I need to go outside here in the nice country I am at and go eat something. By by Anons

Good luck in the culture war!

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Well, if you do like Albanians and living in their country, that means you're quite fine with Muslims. So, have a nice day as well.

Not like we couldn't outbreed them, when we would take our womans rights away

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>I dont hate islam, just the shitskins
Islam is acctually pretty based in my opinion

reminder that pestalozzi was a bad guy

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They practically blackmailed us into this one but I agree. What did you think of the Vollgeld-Initiative?

Yeah in its least barbaric and virulent forms, maybe. I actually agree with the sentiment that I don't hate the religion as much as the subhuman races that practice it. Just like direct democracy (apparently) it's a based system that is being cucked by the worst human elements of its subjects

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something about jews and unity or lack of?
translate it