When Catholics pray to Mary, whom they worship because they are crypto-pagans, what teachings are they reflecting on...

The bible literally tells you not to worship people or objects.

Thats heresy. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit. We can talk to Jesus, who is God, directly

Because they are pagan heretics

>what do you get from hating saints
I do not hate saints. I have probably read more works by saints than most Catholics.

>I do not get this at all.
Neither do they. Catholics are incredibly ignorant of their own doctrine

Sorry catholics, mary is dead in the ground, she will be resurrected like the rest of us on that day. When the angels say she is blessed, she is blessed by being chosen, that doesnt mean special rank or powers. If you aren't praying to christ jesus, youre praying to satan

You meditate and pray, why can't it be both? Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you?
We do pray to God tho.

Why are protestants always so stupid and butthurt.

Ill ask the mother of god to pray for you

I dont ask dead people, who have no consciousness until the day of resurrection, to pray for me, no. The bible is very clear that we should not attempt to contace the dead. So why ask mary for anything? The same reasoning applies why you need to ask forgiveness from a man, instead of God. Catholicism is pagan heresy.

>You meditate and pray, why can't it be both
They are the same thing. What is prayer to you? How do you personally pray and for what purpose?
>Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you?
No. I only really see intercessory prayer as a way of wishing someone well. Useless if you are not in direct contact with the person at the time of prayer.

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>PRAYING TO JESUS IS HERETICAL
is this peak orthodoxy?

>Why are protestants always so stupid and butthurt.
Because I can't shake the feeling that modern Catholics literally think prayer is some kind of magical incantation. I was really hoping someone would prove me wrong.

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Wow, imagine outright lying because you feel so cornered by Gods word. Jesus isn't dead, he is risen! Praise Him! Im sure that just makes a kike like you SEETHE

Mary and the saints are in Heaven, they can hear your prayers.
Praying is communication with whoever you pray to. Praying to God is talking to Him and asking Him for something. Meditation, in terms of the rosary, is reflection upon the mysteries of the rosary.

I'm Catholic.

We're are asking our holy mother to pray for us. The saints in heaven pray for us, as do our dead relatives and loved ones if they are in heaven or purgatory. We also pray for the souls in purgatory to expedite their cleansing.

No, the bible is clear on this. Heaven isnt open yet. 1 thessalonians is clear on this:

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Read your bible.

Ok pagan. Tell me where i said praying to jesus is heretical. In fact, i stated this is the ONLY person to pray to. Have a nice time in hell.

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The saints, like mary, are dead until the resurrection. 1 thessalonians 15-17

And what about the saints who are in Heaven in Revelation?

>what do you get out of asking people to pray for you??
Protestantism is spiritual lobotomization.

idiot

The dead rise at the rapture, also called, "the resurrection" which, ive already stated.
Stay mad, heretic. Hell is forever

Do you think prayer is like pushing a button on a vending machine? I am honestly really trying to wrap my head around this.

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Ok but what about the saints who are in Heaven as stated in Revelation? What about the woman clothed with the sun who comes from Heaven?

Well what do you do when you pray? Do you make an altar and do a ritual? Prayer is literally just talking to God or whoever you pray to.

Ishtar also known as the Queen of Heaven was part of a Triune god worship with Shamash and Sin. The Sun the Moon and Venus the Queen of Heaven. A title that is carried by many goddesses through history.
What they actually worship is Shamash the Son of Sin.
He is the god of the Sun, Justice, Morality, and Truth. Giver of Law, defender of man during a flood.
But the needed to add the Queen of Heaven in to make the Truine work with a Father Son and Queen of Heaven.
Sin - Shamash - Ishtar
Babylon the Great
The Mystery is Solved

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"The saints" is a bad translation for angels. Hered a video by chuck missler which explains the translation at one point

youtu.be/2cB7a2_z9Z0

As for the woman clothed with the sun, these are part of a vision being shown to the prophet John. Do you even read your bible?

We don't worship Mary. And this has nothing to do with why we pray to her.

So the 24 elders are actually angels? And yeah I know it's a vision, what does this have to do with the sun woman?

You can see the connection from Ishtar
To the goddess Eastre
And how the fertility rituals of Eastre were adopoted to the Queen of Heaven giving birth
Easter Worship

Babylon the Great is exposed
Get Out of her you people!!

"But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day." -Jeremiah 44 17-23

you unironically think we worship wood and not whats painted on it?
if you do not hate them then why is the main point of your religion to destroy everything saint related

So you dont read your bible? Because you havent made a single point, but are just asking diverting questions in bad faith. I have already answered your questions, memeflag

>Well what do you do when you pray?
Meditate on scripture and the exegesis surrounding it.

>theology
kys, also wrong board.

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?XD You said that Heaven is closed and I am asking you why there are 24 elders and a woman in Heaven.

tell me about pizzagate

Oh, so you are a dishonest kike pretending to be a christian. The vision john has clearly states "in the heavenS", meaning the sky, where the stars are. Thanks for exposing yourself rabbi, filtered.

Matthew 6:5-13 (KJV)
>5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
>6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
>7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
>8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
>9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
>10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
>11 Give us this day our daily bread.
>12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
>13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

If you do not pray as Jesus Himself commands you to pray - The Lord's Prayer and ONLY The Lord's Prayer - you are sinning. Protestants can't into prayer either. All of you are going to be cast into the lake of fire.

You make it sound like being a crypto-pagan is a bad thing.

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Just prey to Demeter.

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>destroy everything saint related
I'm not doing that. I'd rather have people learn about them than worship them like pagan gods.

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>reduce theologians down to cheap trinkets to sell to the laity
>and thats a good thing!

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>you cant talk to God directly
100% heretical. I want to stand with my Catholic brothers and sisters as members of the body of Christ, but this is (((Phariseeism 2.0))), plain and simple.

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It doesn't say Heavens
>After these things I looked, and behold a door was opened in heaven, and the first voice which I heard, as it were, of a trumpet speaking with me, said: Come up hither, and I will shew thee the things which must be done hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and behold there was a throne set in heaven, and upon the throne one sitting. And he that sat, was to the sight like the jasper and the sardine stone; and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats; and upon the seats, four and twenty ancients sitting, clothed in white garments, and on their heads were crowns of gold.
Apocalypse 4:1-4
>a door was opened in Heaven
Also, curb your paranoia.

>And he saith: Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee: remove this chalice from me; but not what I will, but what thou wilt. And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping. And he saith to Peter: Simon, sleepest thou? couldst thou not watch one hour? Watch ye, and pray that you enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. A going away again, he prayed, saying the same words.
St Mark 14:36-39
>saying the same words
>the same words
Jesus here not only doesn't use the Our Father but also repeats this different prayer multiple times. You completely missed the point Jesus was trying to get across to you.

Catholics dont worship Mary, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them because she is closer to god. You're probably too brainlet to understand the holy trinity aswell.

Theology has political repercussions. Most of our political beliefs have their origins rooted in theology.

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God wasn't laying down rules for Himself. He was laying down rules for man. God isn't subject to the rules He imposes on man.

>Jesus told us to honor his Mother.
Where? He never said that.

>She intercedes for us,
That's heretical nonsense.

>you cant talk to God directly
Bible says,

" And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full." John 16:23-24

" For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5

And this:

" And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Luke 11:27-28

>If you do not pray as Jesus Himself commands you to pray - The Lord's Prayer and ONLY The Lord's Prayer - you are sinning
Except on multiple occasions Jesus prays different prayers aloud, and so do his Apostles. Jesus is making an EXAMPLE of how to pray (coming before God in humility, seeking forgiveness of sins, giving thanks for blessings), not that this is the ONLY way to pray. By your logic David is in Hell despite writing the most comprehensive book of prayer in existence.

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>I dont ask dead people, who have no consciousness until the day of resurrection,
t. J-Dub heretic

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Christ would've wanted us to pray to venerate Mother and his friends. He loved them, after all. Wouldn't you want people to pay respects to your Mami after death?

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This means that God is a hypocrite because he made rules for men and Jesus is God in man's flesh, yet he does not follow the rules he set himself. This also means we should not try our best to imitate Jesus.

>David is in Hell despite writing the most comprehensive book of prayer in existence.
Psalms was written after the last supper? Or was it written before? Doing something before it is proscribed is not a sin.

You keep saying this, but you aren't explaining why you would do this. Why does it matter that Mary is 'closer to god' in this context? Do you think Mary is a witch that can channel supernatural abilities from an all powerful deity? Isn't the objective of Christianity to obtain a state of moral grace aka oneness with God? How is """""""praying""""""" to God to help you find your car keys or whatever not completely heretical?

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>Christ would have wanted
Is a great way to do whatever you want and ignore what he said

He loved them because they were his mother and his friends, not that they were so capital-D Divine that we should prey to them to.

>Jesus is God in man's flesh
>i am a man in a t-shirt.
>therefore i am a t-shirt

Well, I guess it all depends on the pagan traditions predating Christian culture. I'd guess for the Celts though, you're probably looking a transition from the pagan goddess Brigid.....who was very probably NOT a virgin.

Dumb strawman. Jesus was 100% human and 100% God, basic theology.

Don't sweat it, God forgives all sin so long as you confess your sins to Him and believe that he is the one true God. I'm pretty sure it said so in the Bible. So it is fine to sin, as long as you are a faithful member of the one true Catholic church of St.Peter.

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Fine. How about this. God is our heavenly "Father" and we are "children" of God.
A human father, even though he is a person just as much as his children, imposes rules on his children that he does not himself follow. Earlier bedtimes and such.
That does not make the father a hypocrite. It is a father exercising his authority over his children.

>People actually believe that
Your works don't earn your being saved, but they sure can go the opposite way against you.

On the last day we will not be asked if we honoured Mary or not nut if we keep the Lord's commandments

And God took on the human form, like I said Jesus was 100% human. It is hypocritical because the same rules should apply to Jesus. Anyway it's 2 a.m so I'm going to sleep, hopefully you will repent from heresy when I wake up.

>He loved them
God's love is infinite, dawg.

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>hopefully you will repent from heresy when I wake up
Hopefully you will wake up and repent from yours

Why not just ask God yourself? He’s got plenty of time.

We pray to Mary for her to do what she can for us, she is an intermediary between us and God, praying to any saint is like asking the expert to intermediate between you and God. We don’t worship them at all

>That picture
Agreed that the Catholic Church is the one true apostolic Church, but your picture says otherwise. Where does baptism of water and eating the eucharist fit into that picture?

>sking the expert to intermediate between you and God
So if I don't go through Mary, God can't hear my prayers? Do you realize what you are implying?

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Christ is the Mediator between us and God
Not anyone else
That is literally the entire point of the High Priest and Tabernacle set up to his coming.
That he is the one that is the mediator and he opened up the path for everyone to have a relationship with God. But he is the mediator. Christ is still the High Priest.

Turn it around, it says it on the back of the picture.

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It’s not a magic incantation, it’s a method to bring yourself closer to God and to bring yourself closer to salvation. It doesn’t automatically grant either of those things. It is an addition to doing good things in the world. Such as defending your people (race, family, Countrymen) from Evil and doing your best to help those around you in need

>it’s a method to bring yourself closer to God and to bring yourself closer to salvation
okay, but how does praying to saints do this

OP is asking the wrong question, though hes coming from the right place.

The right question is why do Catholics willfully break Gods law? The Bible is very clear not to create statues, or to bow to them, yet you decide to do it anyway

>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
>Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

user, I...

This, they skip over the BOW DOWN TO part
And jump to saying, we don't worship
Completely ignoring what it actually says
Don't Bow Down to it and then it says do not worship, two seperate things about the idol.

>The right question is why do Catholics willfully break Gods law? The Bible is very clear not to create statues
>This, they skip over the BOW DOWN TO part
Are you seriously claiming that only Catholics carve statues? You think Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Apostolics, and others don't? The injunction is against carving the statue in the first place or making ANY engraving depicting ANY thing.
What does God's Law say about hypocrasy?

Catholicism is deliberately constructed to provide separation between you and God.

This of course involves direct disobedience and omission of teachings from the Bible they will proudly claim authorship of

Protestants do not use the statues as magical conduits.

So then should we all stand in doing what is wrong or should we all reject it?
I reject it where those other groups do it.
Do you reject it when the Catholics do it?

>Do you reject it when the Catholics do it?
Yes. I was born into a Catholic family and was raised Catholic. I attended mass every Sunday and was put through Catholic schools. I rejected the Catholic faith, never taking confirmation.

>Protestants do not use the statues as magical conduits.
Not necessary. Simply carving the statue is a sin.
>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42
Simply put Mary is Called Blessed, as well as Christ. As such a certain level of Respect and Veneration is due.
Also Veneration =/= Worship

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What do you think a graven image is in this context?

Also I forgot Luke 1:43-53 also goes on a similar train

>graven image
A graven image is the engraved, carved, or sculpted representation of an object.
Painting or drawing with ink, which were other ways in which objects were represented at that time is not prohibited as far as I know.

>As such a certain level of Respect and Veneration is due.
>is due
All debts were paid when Christ died on the cross. Tell me this, if I do not 'venerate' Mary, will I go to Hell? Is this what the people of your faith believe? Can you show me what level of 'respect and veneration' is due to Mary relative to God, perhaps on a pie chart? I wouldn't want to mess it up and condemn myself to eternal damnation.

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