Can someone explain to me why I shouldnt be a socialist? And can you do it without approximating a Thatcher quote?

i literally just said i want the workers to hold the majority of power in society. i never said anything about the government doing everything. do you have a brain parasite?

can you explain this? ive heard this a million times and cant intuitively understand because its never a thought that is explained. every boomer with an RV just sort of says it and expects everyone to agree

>want for workers to hold majority power in the world or my understanding that the profit motive is in direct conflict with human welfare?
This comes entirely from an inability to think vicariously.

Do you understand supply and demand?

I had a friend who was getting government assistance when it comes to health care. And literally user. LITERALLY. Every time they got a headache they went to the emergency room. That’s money coming out of yours and mines pocket. At least I was able to redpill another friend with this situation.

no i think ive come to this conclusion because i can think vicariously

i get this but i dont think thats emblematic of whats wrong with socialism but rather whats wrong with our system of healthcare where the tax payer has to pay for hospital profit loss. dont you think if everyone had socialized medicine things like this wouldnt be a problem? why should healthcare be for profit?

Socialism is great, if you plan to do nothing with yourself and scrape by on government handouts.
Of course should you plan to actually achieve something for yourself and in the grand scheme of things all of society, don't worry socialism will have you regret that idea when you realise you're being robbed in broad daylight just so lazy worthless fucks can live and breed making more worthless lazy fucks on your blood sweat and tears.

You have no relationship with your parents and want the state to fill that hole.

>Can someone explain to me why I shouldnt be a socialist?
Why would you want to be a slave of the state?

Private ownership of the means of production has demonstrably higher allocative efficiency because of incentives to minimize cost and maximize output.

That doesn't mean that you can't have a robust civic society within a Capitalist system, but you have to carefully analyze what you're doing to avoid abuse. A sense of civic identity and a high level of social trust are key, and as we have seen, multicultural corporate lliberalism actively undermines all of those things.

You would need, at the core of it, a serious overhaul of our civilization in order to make such a system work--but nothing will ever make hard Socialism work.

Hospitals can charge whatever they want and that’s the problem why prices are so high. Going to a socialist government won’t help that. Look at college tuition prices. They have jumped so high cause of government assistance. Colleges can set whatever prices they can set cause the government will pay for it. But when you leave college your stuck with the bill.

Do you trust the government?

Market economies are based on freedom of choice, speech and association.
Command economies are inherently authoritarian and don't give a fuck about nonsense like individual freedom.
Case in point: during the cold war many people in the US were part of political collectives such as communes and work unions. This was not illegal and even encouraged in some circles.
In the USSR any attempt at capitalism was actually just an illegal black market and could have you sent to the gulag.
That comparison alone tells me all I need to know about market v command economics.

>just so lazy worthless fucks can live and breed making more worthless lazy fucks on your blood sweat and tears
this phenomenon is happening in america and we are FAR from socialist

What is welfare?

>being a member of a social species
>not realizing that you directly benefit if everyone around you benefits
Wow

>laws of humanity and nature
You do realize natural laws are descriptive and not prescriptive, right? Like gravity doesn't work the way it does because we say it does.

because corporations are far more ruthless and totalitarian than any state could ever be.
no i have a great relationship with both of my parents. when was the last time you talk to yours?
i understand this but i dont worship the market user. how efficiently other people make profit means very little to me. and by little i mean it means nothing at all.
yeah thats a problem with capitalism bud im glad you understand

Become a communist

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I wonder if that cat got away.

>hey, you should want a market solution when you think market solutions are bad
Why can't capitalists conceive of societies that aren't capitalist? Capitalism has only existed for a few centuries, humans have lived with capitalism before [spoiler]and most certainly will again[/spoiler]

we have a welfare system that rewards anti social behavior. like breeding when you cant afford to have children. that's not a problem with the idea of welfare but the form we have

absolute faggot fuck off

You need to consider that individuals need a driver.
If one receives without effort, then no effort will be given. People do not behave in the hairy fairy 'I'm doing my part for the greater good' horse shit way that startrek will have you believe.

That's socialism, you aren't as capitalistic as you think.

>profit is the problem but getting rid of profit will only make people profit more

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that's literally not workers owning the means of production. nice fox news talking point

Gotem. Left wing destroyed. Fucking retard

>yeah, cuck yourself to the rich because I'm scared that I'll have to cuck myself to the poor even though that wouldn't happen

Because there isn't any incentive for innovation if you get paid as much as the people you are hiring. Plus it won't work in America as no one will become a doctor if you get paid as much as a burger flipper

That would be communism.

because all political ideologies are a scam
they are all the exact same thing
prove me wrong

>imagine living in a multiculty mutt hellhole and giving a shit about "everyone"
Do you think those strangers care about you, you weak white faggot?

As a life long democratic socialist, basically because the socialist movement has been co-opted by the mentally ill and totalitarian communists and is no longer a tenable ideology because instead of it being primarily about supporting the working class to power a nation it has morphed into the unquestioning support of the non working class. Socialism works when you have a strong national identity and homogeneous cultural and ethnic society, oitherwise it falls to pieces, all over niggerfied europe are the hallmarks of societies in decay because of socialist policies that no longer work when so many fail to contribute.

is that what socialism is? fast food workers making as much as a doctor? wow you guys are so enlightened here. and that thing about innovation its interesting how cuba has cured AIDS in fetuses when they're in utero and have developed a vaccine for certain cancers when there's no profit incentive.

This is why.

youtube.com/watch?v=t3lBdyFvPps

Have you ever run a business? Do you have any idea how hard and just how much talent it takes to make one successful?
A lot harder than being a blue collar pleb I tell ya.
And don't forget they've actually created something! the "poor" (more accurately lazy welfare leeches) create nothing, they just take which in itself is a crime.

yikes! i think about someone other than CEOs of corporations Im not apart of and this ancap hillbilly gets upset. do you think anyone running one of your totalitarian companies you like so much gives a fuck about you? if they had it their way you would make just enough to buy whatever shit plastic foodstuff they produced and that's it. human value is more than what their labor value is in the market.

>Can someone explain to me why I shouldnt be a socialist?
Nothing wrong with National or clerical socialism.
Don't be a faggot marxist though

Is it not enough incentive to receive the full fruits of your labor, and to do with those fruits what you will or exchange them with others for theirs without exploitation? Markets promise that such a thing could happen, but make it impossible through the existence of profit.

Not interested to shit threads, sage.

why not a marxist?

Because marxism leads to atheism which in turn causes absolute degeneracy.

>implying that running a business is even something anyone should do
Yeah, just keep cucking people out of the fruits of their own labor, making money off of their work. The workers are the ones who keep the business alive, if you think a capitalist-only company could survive, you're insane. Oh, but please tell me how workers are the leeches despite capitalists at the top leeching from their labor. Co-ops succeed and fail at the same rate as capitalist-owned businesses, even within an overall capitalist society.

In its pure form, it can’t work because inducing democracy into the workplace is retarded. In its vulgar form, it won’t work because government tends do an economy ill when it overextends itself into an economy and tries to redistribute things to betterment. Capitalism, in spite of its flaws, yields generally better outcomes.

dont you think degeneracy is caused by the decadence of capitalism? how degenerate are the workers in Pyongyang?

Take your schizo pills. Nothing you've said makes the minimum sense.

Because it’s cringe and gay

Do you like being a human or a node or an economic landscape where your efforts do not scale with reward?

Garfeild?

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>muh duhgenuruhseeeee
Yeah, we should instead return to human sacrifices to appease the storm god instead of having a drag queen read a picture book to some kids every once in a while. Please, go fuck yourself.

If socialism were worth it, socialist firms would have outcompeted capitalistic ones.

reading the replies to this thread i think i just might

If you're not receiving the "full fruits" of your labour, then there is a over supply of labour or failure to negotiate an employment contract issue there.
The beauty about this system is if there is an over supply of labour in that field, there is a driver for citizens to move to another, and the supply-demand game balances once again.

Be wary that what many consider the "full fruits" is incorrect, say your job is to build a house, you cannot receive the profit from that for the project has many stakeholders each of which are taking their cut based on their market value (an architect will earn more than a builder) and many overheads (offices, design equipment, reception staff etc).

that is fucking retarded

The labor theory of value is patently wrong. The capitalist isn’t stealing your magical labor power by employing you. Co-ops, the producer-run ones operating like businesses aside, are utter memes that have have failed to present a viable alternative to the private business model. Even with well over a century of experimentation.

I do. Why should my money go to support welfare queens and their little bastards? What socialists call for with absolute equality is dysgenic because it advances the ability of the dregs of society to be able to reproduce while directly inhibiting those who are more fit and able to reproduce.

Call it what you want. It is the reason the prevailing economic system is capitalistic. Capitalistic societies out-competed socialistic and feudalistic societies.

>meanwhile, he doesn't know that co-ops succeed and fail at the same rate as capitalist-owned businesses even under capitalism
Hmm

Have you had anything to do with a govt department lately? Do you really think the fucking govt. should run businesses?????

but i know plenty of people who are christian and worship the material because they live under capitalism. im asking YOU if you the WORKERS IN PYONGYANG ARE DEGENERATES?

This is it my lads, ending it all on stream.
>No Sleep in 30 hours
Stream Link And Manifesto:
www.discord.com\invite\F8CyctF

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Great so lets take a look at the whole wide world and see the results of these co-ops...
Wow...

If the employer profits, or the company you work for profits, that is directly the result of the results of your labor being stolen. You then go on to say how things work in a market system when I'm advocating moving out of a market system. I get that that's how things work right now. I'm saying that's a bad thing.

so thats why i shouldnt be a socialist? because capitalism is the defacto world order?

That owl missed the throat which means that cat got away

Co-ops succeed and fail at about the same rate as capitalist-owned businesses, it's a meme that they're failures and you're buying into that hard. The capitalist is not stealing magical labor power, they're stealing what you produce as a worker through profit.

Have I said anything about the government?

The employer should profit because he did the hard yards to give you somewhere to work you muppet.

You are literally making the argument that the slaves built american railroads, when without instruction they couldn't even make steel let alone a fucking railway infrastructure.

I'm sorry that a co-op will never get you a multinational chain like Wal-Mart, but that's not the point of even most capitalist-owned businesses. Do you support monopolies?

And yet, how many are leaders of industry? Innovators and pillars of economic life? How many are purely abiding by their magical coop formula? How many more have demutualized as time has gone on? Why, if they succeed at the same rate as capitalist businesses, are they not more widespread? Especially given the fact that they’ve been floating around as an alternative to private business for more than a century, with varying levels of political support?

If not a govt.
If not an employer.
Then who is going to do the hard yards to give you a job?

What would the employer's "place to work" be if there were no one to work it? Being the leader on a project doesn't mean you get to scrape part of everyone else's worth off just by the merit of leading the project.

>Defending drag queens
Are you brainwashed or a fag yourself?

Workers, of which I am one, presumably. People get together, have a thing to do, and need other people to help them do the thing. It's not an especially difficult concept to wrap your head around.

There are never enough people paying into the system to offset all of the people who want to take from the system. Add a giant government buricratic machine to run all of it on top of that and you get why it fails.

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This is what you're looking for, Op

mises.org/sites/default/files/Socialism An Economic and Sociological Analysis_3.pdf

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>prefers human fucking sacrifice to drag queens
Surely you're not actually this stupid in real life.

Dude seriously you have absolutely no fucking idea just how hard it is to be a project manager, or worse start a business employing people from nothing. Absolutely none!

Try it, seriously try to start your own business, one that employs people directly, no contractors, no one man band (which in itself is a fucking nightmare too)

>Christians make human sacrifices
How does it feel to have room temperature IQ?

>this whole thread

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>impact font meme describes profit as exploitation
>claims it's socialism

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Doing a hard job doesn't mean you get to take some of the worth other people produce

>christianity has existed forever
I thought older was better? Why start at Christianity? Christianity is surely degenerate compared to pre-Late Bronze Age Collapse religion.

The project manager is providing worth, he prevents the pic related, but consider a typical project has a billion things that can go wrong.

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Yes, and he is entitled to the worth he produces. No one else is entitled to his worth. He is also not entitled to the worth of anyone else.

They are failures, you dipshit. Swaths of them failed to compete and embraced private ownership, as time’s gone on. Or, at the very least, cucked out on their ideas into petty oligarchy. It’s been tried time and time again and yielded no major gains or viable alternatives to the private business model. Is Ocean Spray a magically democratic workers’ paradise? A leader in its industry? The only near to coops with any vague levels of success are employee-stock owned companies, which are not the pinnacles of worker self-management thought of by socialism. Finally, profit is but the excess monies from an operation. Not the fruits of stolen labor power.

>I thought older was better? Why start at Christianity? Christianity is surely degenerate compared to pre-Late Bronze Age Collapse religion.
Why are you pretending to be retarded now? No one said that.

you should be socialist, tha nationalistic kind