If we accept the premise that Christ founded a Church (singular), which is written in the Bible, then apostolic succession is an absolute requirement for someone to call themselves "Christian." And that's it. Either Christ was telling the truth when he established one Church, or he was lying.
Protestantism is a group of non-Christian religions
Oliver Wright
Jace Johnson
When the Bible refers to the church, it's not referring to a specific denomination or institution, but to the collective body of all believers. So of course there's only one, by definition.
Thomas Russell
No to be Christian you must be a follower of Christ, fuck off mutt
Henry Nguyen
>reminder to type "sage" in the Options field, so your post does not bump shit threads
Xavier Bell
>Was god lying when he first said the jews were his chosen people?
The catholic church is corrupt to the core, their main interest is money and power, just look at the pope's support of the othodox genocide in serbia, even in the 1940's the catholic church felt genocide against christians to extend their influence over eruope was ok.
This doesn't really need arguing over, all churches are corrupt and fucked up now with pro gay and tranny shit (yOu mUsT lOvE YoUr ChID mOlEsTer nEigHbhour)
Aaron Barnes
You can't follow Christ your own way.
Camden Parker
>>Was god lying when he first said the jews were his chosen people?
No. God cannot lie. But the Old Testament is a large account of Jews disobeying God, and that spirit of rebellion culminates when they killed Christ. After that, they changed their religion to rabinic Judaism.
The promise of God to the people of Israel is still valid, but the people of Israel are now the Catholic Church, mystic body of Christ on earth.
Carson Clark
Nice headcanon, but unfortunately for you it's heretical
Thomas Robinson
Then why is there heresy in the catholic churches, catholics believe the popes have the power to change the gospel and they are fucking wrong
Ryder Stewart
>And then jesus built the church directly on top of peter
Zachary Roberts
>catholics believe the popes have the power to change the gospel
Where do Protestants get these talking points? There is no Catholic who would say such a thing, because it isn't true.
Jaxon Clark
Christ never founded a church, stop taking things so literally.If He did, do you really believe it was part of the plan founding the most corrupt institution on earth?
Chase Perez
Go on nigger justify the Orthodox genocide
William Rodriguez
From catholics, I don't care what you think and neither does the pope
also is fucking retarded Ephesians 2:8
Thomas Smith
>Go on nigger justify the Orthodox genocide
The what? Give me some details so I can look it up.
What I can talk about is how the Orthodox Church aligned herself with the Soviet regime to suppress the Catholic Church, killing and persecuting clergy.
But I'd rather talk about the Protestant barbarism against Catholics, particularly in France, the Netherlands and England.
Brody Ortiz
>protestant barbarism
Explain mutt
Isaac Rogers
>If He did, do you really believe it was part of the plan founding the most corrupt institution on earth?
"The most corrupt" is a bit much, but the Bible says few will be saved. Maybe the scandals are meant to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Thomas Ward
>Where do Protestants get these talking points? There is no Catholic who would say such a thing, because it isn't true.
Not true? Soooo...who changed the "official" sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday?
Catholicism is a satanic death cult that operates in the color of christian faith. Catholics don't seem to understand this fundamental truth. All religions are of satan to a degree, because all religions exist to stop you from following Jesus Christ.
The Father did not come to earth as a man, and tell us "go on, pick a religion and follow it". He came and said FOLLOW ME.
Jack Thompson
Maybe you're the chaff
Benjamin Carter
Where do I begin? The Calvinists in France would go into the cemeteries of Catholic Churches or Cathedrals, they would drag the uncorrupted bodies of saints into the streets and burn them, they would destroy precious writings, they would commit sacrilege by taking horses into the altar, they would trample over the Blessed Sacrament, they would invade monasteries and convents to strip the brothers and sisters naked, they would rape the nuns, castrate the brothers (that happened a lot during the French Revolution).
In the Netherlands, we had the iconoclast savages who destroyed so many artworks and architectural treasures.
In England there was opened hostility towards Catholic after that fat adulterer invented his cult, and to this day, no Catholic can ever be a monarch in England. A Muslim can convert to Anglicanism and be on the list for the throne, but never a Catholic.
You really must read about history of Protestantism because it was not what they tell you.
Gabriel Thomas
>Nice headcanon, but unfortunately for you it's heretical
The word "church" in the Bible means the body of faithful, born-again Christians.
The apostles, and all Christians, were commissioned by Jesus according to the Great Commission to go into the world and preach the Gospel to all creatures. Where, in the gospel, does it say anything about signing up for some satanic cult aka "religion"?
It doesn't, because to be Christian means you FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST in faith and action.
Ayden Miller
The word "church" in the Bible means the body of faithful, born-again Christians.
The apostles, and all Christians, were commissioned by Jesus according to the Great Commission to go into the world and preach the Gospel to all creatures. Where, in the gospel, does it say anything about signing up for some satanic cult aka "religion"?
It doesn't, because to be Christian means you FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST in faith and action.
Charles Thompson
>who changed the "official" sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday?
The Apostles. Sunday as "The Lord's Day" is even mentioned in the Bible. Saint Paul also talks about not putting the yoke of a law not even the Judeans could bear on the necks of Christians.
Luke Moore
what do you know about the superior general of the society of jesus? roman catholic knights of malta? tavistock institute? the black pope?
i'm legitimately interested, we need to have a common ground.
Matthew Collins
You're a Seventh Day Adventist. You're a member of a heretical cult who worships St. Michael and pretends he and Jesus are the same guy (they aren't.)
John Wilson
Find me a single biblical verse that endorses apostolic succession, I'll wait.
Elijah Garcia
>The Apostles. Sunday as "The Lord's Day" is even mentioned in the Bible. Saint Paul also talks about not putting the yoke of a law not even the Judeans could bear on the necks of Christians.
Wrong.
Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine:
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.
-----
In the out-of-context statement you mentioned, Paul the Apostle was referring to the laws of Moses that the israelite descendants did not want to give up. He was not referring to the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and is to be set aside for God and for rest.
The sabbath is one of the 10 commandments, which we are to keep. Please learn context and don't misrepresent scripture to fulfill your delusions.
Andrew Perez
No, I'm not a "member" of anything other than the Body of Christ.
Catholics are really of this world. They cannot understand that they are not saved, and that in 2019 their willful ignorance is a CHOICE.
Isaiah Ramirez
>trust me bro
Jonathan Flores
Imagine believing that the perfect love of Jesus Christ has anything to do whatsoever with the Catholic child molesting church.
Lincoln Sanders
alot of talk for someone who doesnt preach on the streets as they were commanded to
Nathan Garcia
>Find me a single biblical verse that endorses apostolic succession, I'll wait.
It's implied. But I can play this game too: find me verses justifying divorce and remarriage, sola scriptura and so on.
Jaxon White
We should congregate together in churches tho user, I repsect having denominations that disagree, in the end it won't matter we will all go to heaven and god will correct every flaw
Ryder Anderson
prots ruined europe with their enlightenment cuckery
Jace Robinson
Find me scriptures that say the pope is the successor of Jesus just because the previous pope said so, I'll wait
Jacob Morgan
The "father" did not come to earth. The son did. The son is not the father.
Eli Martinez
>"The most corrupt" is a bit much, but the Bible says few will be saved. Maybe the scandals are meant to separate the wheat from the chaff.
To say that the vatican, and by extension the cult of catholicism, is the "most corrupt institution that exists" is hardly an overstatement. Many will be lead to condemnation for their allegiance to the idolarty and distortions of God's word that the catholic church espouses. Additionally, the vatican itself exists to undermine human society...and still does to this day.
The Treaty of 1213 has never been repealed. Educate yourself. Satan is playing the fools who sit upon tradition, unwilling to learn the truth...and those who stand against the truth stand against Jesus Christ - the ONLY truth this world has ever known.
Jayden Mitchell
>They cannot understand that they are not saved, and that in 2019 their willful ignorance is a CHOICE.
No one alive is saved. Proclaiming your salvation is to usurp God's position. Our salvation depends upon judgement after death.
Gavin Phillips
Catholics are more cucked today than any other denomination, the enlightenment wasn't gay until (((Cultural Marxism))) co-opted it
Nicholas Sanchez
Or, maybe the Catholics are full of shit.
James Diaz
Ephesians 2:8
Benjamin Hill
What was the point of Jesus then? If I can earn my own salvation by being a good person, why did Jesus have to die? Why did God upset his already-established order?
Go read the book of Romans and get back to me.
Nathaniel Myers
>We should congregate together in churches tho user, I repsect having denominations that disagree, in the end it won't matter we will all go to heaven and god will correct every flaw
The Bible is very specific about what is required for salvation:
1) Repentance - turn away from sin and the lusts of this world. Lusts meaning "worldly desires", not exclusive to sexual desires.
2) Be Baptized in water - by a true born-again Christian that does not identify according to some false "denomination".
3) Receive the Holy Spirit of God - this will manifest depending upon your level of faith and the degree to which you seek Jesus Christ in truth.
And in a nutshell, it really boils down to accepting the simple fact that this world is a lie - everything in it - and that the ONLY truth this world has ever known is Jesus Christ. That brings with it the implication that the Bible is to act as a filter for truthfulness and righteousness according to God, so that anything that speaks againsts God's word is a lie. People don't get that...and often fail when they read Genesis 1:6-8 and think it's talking about space balls and galaxies...no.
Levi Bennett
This truly highlights the gross heresy which is protestantism. According to this idea, if one has faith but is a terrible person, he's justified nonetheless. It also contradicts the Bible itself which says there will be a final judgement. Why a judgment and why the commandments if all that's needed is faith?
You people need to free yourselves from the wings of satan, who you follow.
Adrian Ward
>The "father" did not come to earth. The son did. The son is not the father.
Wrong. Jesus the man is the Father made flesh. There is no "three persons". That is nonsense. God explicitly identifies himself as ONE, and Jesus confirmed that HE IS THE FATHER multiple times. Read the Bible before speaking about it.
Aaron Lopez
>If I can earn my own salvation by being a good person, why did Jesus have to die?
You CAN'T earn your salvation, but you must obey what Christ taught, otherwise you're not following him. I mean, the final judgement is in the Bible itself.
Henry Hernandez
>inb4 I heard it in church
Samuel Harris
>No one alive is saved. Proclaiming your salvation is to usurp God's position. Our salvation depends upon judgement after death.
Where doe these idiots spewing false doctrine come from? Salvation comes by placing your faith in Jesus Christ WHILE YOU ARE ALIVE IN THE FLESH. Jesus is sovereign over all, he already owns us entirely - we are granted exemption from condemnation if we repent and are baptized. The Bible repeats this ad nauseum...but apparently you didn't read it.
Adrian Taylor
>the world is a lie
No, there are things that are true that can be proven and must be assumed to be true that the bible doesn't address like math. Anything contrary to the word of God must be assumed to be false no matter what, but outside of God we'll have to wait to get to heaven.
>Spaceballs
Not really sure if space is real user
Aaron Morris
Did you read Ephesians 2:8?
Mason Richardson
>orthodox
>false teachings
You guys aren't even trying
Matthew Fisher
>This truly highlights the gross heresy which is protestantism. According to this idea, if one has faith but is a terrible person, he's justified nonetheless. It also contradicts the Bible itself which says there will be a final judgement. Why a judgment and why the commandments if all that's needed is faith?
True or False: God calls all men [and women] to repentance?
TRUE.
Faith WITHOUT works is void. If you do not back up your claims of faith with acts that reflect your claims, you are a liar and therefore are lukewarm. Repentance is the first step in the salvation process, and you cannot repent if you have the intention of living in sin.
>You people need to free yourselves from the wings of satan, who you follow.
Catholicism enables living in sin. By tithing the church you can "absolve your sins" which also would remove any political charges of crime against you. In 2019 it still does...which is why you often see the wealthiest criminals "settle out of court" for heinous crimes.
Catholicism comes from Rome, rome was a saturn worship cult that rebranded themselves as pseudo-christian to stop the rapid spread of true Christianity through Italy. It failed to stop Christianity, but the cult of catholicism still stands.
Justin Wilson
Memes aside, the orthodox church believes a lot of nonsense
Michael Phillips
Not to mention how catholics can pay to get dead relatives out of hell or purgatory
William Edwards
>You CAN'T earn your salvation, but you must obey what Christ taught, otherwise you're not following him. I mean, the final judgement is in the Bible itself.
The final judgment is for those who do not repent and turn to Jesus while they are able to. Salvation is not earned, it is a GIFT from Jesus which is made possible by the sacrifice he made when he was yet a man in the earth.
Daniel Harris
I repeat: Why a judgment and why the commandments if all that's needed is faith?
Aiden Baker
>By tithing the church you can "absolve your sins"
Not by tithing. Read John 20:23.
>which also would remove any political charges of crime against you
Not true.
>In 2019 it still does...which is why you often see the wealthiest criminals "settle out of court" for heinous crimes.
Literally WHAT?
Elijah Davis
It's for unbelievers
Aaron White
>Not to mention how catholics can pay to get dead relatives out of hell or purgatory
LOLWUT
Cameron Sullivan
>The final judgment is for those who do not repent and turn to Jesus while they are able to.
Citation needed.
Caleb Taylor
It's not works that qualify you as saved, but as a demonstration of your being saved. You can't just say you're saved, then never repent the sins you continually commit. It's dishonesty to Jesus. You all act like it's a catch-22 you caught the Lord in.
"No no no now Jesus, you can't count that rape last night against me. I said I was saved two weeks ago!"
Parker Cox
>Thyatira
Yes, this church, off to the north east of all the rest is the roman catholic church. Nevermind that Paul had already written to the church in Rome at the time, so the church in Rome already existed when John wrote Revelation.
You ought to go actually study catholic history, traditions, rites and sacraments and justifications instead of just taking the word of your Judaizing pastor.
Jack Sanders
>No, there are things that are true that can be proven and must be assumed to be true that the bible doesn't address like math. Anything contrary to the word of God must be assumed to be false no matter what, but outside of God we'll have to wait to get to heaven.
Does God have an aversion to numbers and math? Does the Bible not employ encodings which can be understood by processing numbers? Math in its base form is fine - but so-called "advanced math" or "theoretical" math is false. Those who try to justify reality by using nothing other than "mathematical models" and no physical observation/experimentation lie with numbers.
Math itself is not a truth, it is simply a tool, and our ability to understand numbers comes from God. Satan twists this to delude people into believing they are unlocking imagined "secrets of the universe", not realizing that we know what God wants us to know.
>Not really sure if space is real user
It's not. God spent an entire day of creation on the Firmament... It's important, but let's replace that with "expanse" and pretend star trek is real. The entire thing is contrary to the Bible, and therefore a lie.
Ayden Powell
>Infant baptism
Gavin Cooper
They are, and so are protestants, and all other schismatics...
Asher Garcia
The Orthodox Church believes what the ancient church believed. We have the historical continuity. Rome split from us in 1054. All Protestant churchs were founded in 1517 at the earliest by definition. These are facts. I'm sorry if they're inconvient for you.
Holy Orthodoxy is the fullness of the faith.
Lincoln Gutierrez
stirring up a squabble over the same thing being different is , although interesting, not a nice thing to do
Blake Rodriguez
>I repeat: Why a judgment and why the commandments if all that's needed is faith?
Who has repented, relative to the total number of souls that have existed in the earth over time? Many will face judgment and condemnation. If you do not die in Christ, you will face condemnation because there is NOTHING any one of us can do ourselves to absolve ourselves of sin.
We are ALL SINNERS, and because we are sinners we require laws. The commandments exist, so that in the most simplistic terms, we can understand WHY we are sinners and an affront to the Heavenly Father.
Why do you know intrinsically what is right and wrong? Even before anyone told you, your conscience would kick in. You can choose to ignore it but where does that come from? Genesis 3:5
Christopher Thompson
>Weak denials; attempting to justify catholicism by scripture.
Tithing is a catholic thing, it's not in the Bible. Nobody can buy their way out of sin. Get over it.
And it is absolutely true that you could pay the church to have all criminal charges against you dropped...for the simple fact that all of those governments operate under the pervue of the vatican. Kings who disobey the vatican would be excommunicated. Get a clue.
>Doesnt know the nature of the world
Do you still think that the "United States" is a country?
Hudson Kelly
>Citation needed.
In true catholic form, he has yet to crack open a bible. Let's hope he picks up a KJV and not the nutty NIV or NWT that the jehova cult likes.
Easton Barnes
What about Ephesians 2:7?
This is what Prottys don't get. The bible wasn't written as chapters and verses. It was written as letters and books, those divisions in verses are arbitrary and for reference only. You can't understand it if you only pick out one verse to read.
Logan Flores
>The commandments exist, so that in the most simplistic terms, we can understand WHY we are sinners and an affront to the Heavenly Father.
Didn't you say that judgment was for unbelievers? If they don't believe, why would the commandments be effective against them or serve as a basis for any judgement? You probably know the Calvinists believe people are pre-destined to salvation or damnation, so to them, there's no point even in preaching.
Daniel Davis
More Jewish-Protestant "Judeochristian" Propaganda.
Sebastian Ross
Benjamin Cox
>Tithing is a catholic thing
Citation needed.
Over here it's the protestant houses which actually charge people money, some, the most successful, have been caught demanding to see people's paycheck to know if they were giving 10% of their earnings. Evangelicals worship money and Israel.
>And it is absolutely true that you could pay the church to have all criminal charges against you dropped
Okay, there's no point arguing with you.
William Adams
>Didn't you say that judgment was for unbelievers? If they don't believe, why would the commandments be effective against them or serve as a basis for any judgement? You probably know the Calvinists believe people are pre-destined to salvation or damnation, so to them, there's no point even in preaching.
Did I say that? Why not quote me if I did? Because I did not say that.
Faith is not belief, champ. Faith is TRUST AND LOYALTY. Belief is a whim that can change. True faith is absolute.
Those who DO NOT REPENT will face condemnation. It's really simple.
God's creation is a book he wrote. God knows how it plays out, and how it ends. We do not, therefore we proceed into the unknown. Our only assurance from God are the promises he made to us in scripture and also while he was in earth as a man, Jesus Christ.
Jace Miller
>find me verses justifying divorce and remarriage
Nice moving the goalposts.
Also, if you're considering Old Testament Law it's pretty black and white.
Now answer the man
Jayden Sanders
>Over here it's the protestant houses which actually charge people money, some, the most successful, have been caught demanding to see people's paycheck to know if they were giving 10% of their earnings. Evangelicals worship money and Israel.
Really? Wow, that's nice. As if pointing out what one cult is doing makes the cult of catholicism better. You are very fond of labels, because you are firmly of this world and do not have a spiritual knowledge of Jesus Christ or his teachings.
Salvation is your choice, and is a FREE GIFT from God that he paid for with his own blood. All you would need to do is repent, but to repent you have to wake up.
>Okay, there's no point arguing with you.
You are not arguing with me, you are trying to affirm to yourself that your misguided beliefs in worldly [satanic] institutions is "the right way", and you are standing in denial of simple biblical truths.
William Lopez
Tithing is in the book of Malachi, and Leviticus, and Numbers, and well, a lot of places: biblegateway.com
However, it's not the Catholic Church that preaches tithing, because that's part of the Levitical Law. The church preaches charity and offerings, but tithing is a purely Jewish/Protestant gig.
Hudson Flores
Reminder that all these extremely vitriolic Catholics come from cripplechan's /christians/ board, which has been taken over by 14 year old trad caths who are banning everything not strictly adhering to Catholicism (up to and including banning someone for posting a picture of the Hagia Sophia in a cathedral architecture thread).
It is always the same Brazilian/Norwegian posters fanning the flames of interdenominational conflict on Jow Forums.
Be aware who you are talking to.
James Brooks
Faith without works is dead. You act like this is some Catch-22 you've caught the Lord in, which you would know is bullshit if you had actually read the Scripture.
A person who claims faith in Christ (ie not just believing, for even the demons know Christ and "believe"), but still sin unrepetently, does not have faith, and will not be saved. A person who claims faith in Christ, yet still sins as a result of our inherent sinful nature, but repents, will be saved.
This is theology 101 stuff, brother.
Ayden Sullivan
>Tithing is a catholic thing, it's not in the Bible.
So the little old widow who gave her only coin gave more than all the rich.. etc etc
BIBLE
JESUS
hello Bif ? Go wash the car.
Colton Wood
Gatekeeping the Lord behind a paywall and adding on heretical flimflams with the sole purpose of funding your church like its a tax exempt business doesn't strike me as very Christian. Then again, neither does raping prepubescent boys, so what do I know?
Justin Jenkins
Don't confuse donations to apostles in support of their efforts of spreading God's word with catholic tithing...whereby catholics accept payment for absolution of sin.
Or are you going to sit there and say that catholics do not:
- Expect you to confess your sins to a priest.
- Claim that saying "hail mary" a few times is "penance"
- Rinse and repeat every week.
The old catholic churches used to have menus of "absolution", with the prices required to be forgiven depending on the particular sin. They even had "all sins" for a lofty price. Of course, only the 'nobility' could afford these prices.
As I said, the "out of court settlements" you see today is tithing [to the vatican] in action today. Facebook just paid what, $5 billion or something like that...
Treaty of 1213 - the vatican believes it owns the world, and in many ways it still does since the constructs that operate under the pretense of being "government" are actually loyal to the vatican.
Dylan Parker
>>>Didn't you say that judgment was for unbelievers?
>Did I say that? Why not quote me if I did? Because I did not say that.
Sure. Here you go:
>The final judgment is for those who do not repent and turn to Jesus while they are able to.
Ethan Phillips
>So the little old widow who gave her only coin gave more than all the rich.. etc etc
>BIBLE
>JESUS
>hello Bif ? Go wash the car.
What sins was she paying to have absolved, champ? Try to follow the conversation and to make references in proper context...
Daniel Lewis
Please shut up and go to a different website with your annoying cult, "peepee poopoo this version of dumbdumb kike religion is the most baste!!"
Carter Roberts
>What sins was she paying to have absolved, champ? Try to follow the conversation and to make references in proper context..
LMAO YOU FUCKING RETARD
Did not JESUS himself declare ?
Lincoln Powell
>Tithing is a catholic thing, it's not in the Bible
You're confusing tithing (which demands that 10% of your first fruits be given to support the Lord's church, and is absolutely in the Bible) with indulgences (which allowed wealthy people to "buy" their way into receiving pointless mortal forgiveness by a priest, which is absolutely NOT in the Bible).
Ian Diaz
There are two judgements in the scriptures. One is the judgement seat of Christ which is for saved believers and the other is the white throne judgement which is for all unsaved people who will be condemned to Hell
Zachary Bennett
>Come on Jow Forums
>Some stupid Brazilian is babbling about Christianity
This site gets worse and worse every day.
Nathaniel Phillips
>whereby catholics accept payment for absolution of sin.
Please stop. You're lying and that's a sin. Read about the things you want to criticise before doing so.
>Or are you going to sit there and say that catholics do not:
>- Expect you to confess your sins to a priest.
John 20:23
>- Claim that saying "hail mary" a few times is "penance"
There are various types of penance which are at the discretion of the confessor.
>
The old catholic churches used to have menus of "absolution", with the prices required to be forgiven depending on the particular sin.
Citation needed.
>As I said, the "out of court settlements" you see today is tithing [to the vatican] in action today.
LOL
Easton Long
You are claiming that this:
>>>>Didn't you say that judgment was for unbelievers?
Equals this:
>>The final judgment is for those who do not repent and turn to Jesus while they are able to.
The straws are still out of reach, bro. It's time to stop denying truth and start accepting Jesus Christ. The Father left his throne in Heaven, came to us as a lowly man and servant, and you can't even be bothered to read the book he left for us...but you believe you are so devout and pious because you adhere to man-made catholic doctrine that perverts Jesus' teachings for its own gain.
Repentance is an act of faith, where you ACKNOWLEDGE that you are a sinner and ACKNOWLEDGE that you are only able to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ - and nothing else. Faith is LOYALTY AND TRUST, all of which you place in Jesus Christ. It's not belief. We KNOW God exists, we KNOW Jesus was a man among us about 2,000 years ago...these are historical facts. What is there to believe?
Josiah Diaz
>"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR SEXUAL IMMORALITY, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
>Matthew 19:9
Lemme explain in case your english can't keep up. That means that if your wife cheats on you you can divorce and remarry.
Easton Flores
>>What sins was she paying to have absolved, champ? Try to follow the conversation and to make references in proper context..
>LMAO YOU FUCKING RETARD
>Did not JESUS himself declare ?
No, you can answer my question or stop talking. You don't have an answer, because she was not buying absolution. She was granted forgiveness for her selflessness...because the money she gave up was all that she had. You completely miss the point.
She was not paying money to a church so that she could continue living in wickedness and sin - which is explicitly what catholicism enables.
Jordan Russell
>The Father left his throne in Heaven
I'm not surprised a non-Christian would have such poor understanding of Christianity.
The Father did not left the throne. Christ was triune in nature: man, God, and Holy Spirit, but that doesn't mean Heaven was empty.
Connor Thompson
Acts 1:21-26, 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, the writings of Clement, Ignatius and others who learned directly from the Apostles.
catholic.com
catholic.com
"Ignatius and Clement aren't in the bible they don't count", okay, but 2 Thessalonians 2:15 explicitly says "So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter."
It explicitly states that they were taught by traditions that were NOT in the Bible. (And how could they have been taught by the New Testament epistles of Paul, Peter, John, etc, when those epistles were written AFTER they started the church?)
Jackson Gutierrez
"When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” (St. Mark 10:10-12)
Nathan Carter
>You're confusing tithing (which demands that 10% of your first fruits be given to support the Lord's church, and is absolutely in the Bible) with indulgences (which allowed wealthy people to "buy" their way into receiving pointless mortal forgiveness by a priest, which is absolutely NOT in the Bible).
No, I'm not confusing anything. I'm not an israelite living under the law of moses. Maybe you are, but that is the origin of that 10% tax to the church thing. It was long since done away with; we are under the blood covenant of Jesus Christ. There is no taxation involved. And semantically, tithing & indulgences are pretty much the same in effect - you are voluntarily giving money to the institutional church, under the pretense of it coming back to you as a blessing.
Joseph Reyes
>>whereby catholics accept payment for absolution of sin.
>Please stop. You're lying and that's a sin. Read about the things you want to criticise before doing so.
What did I say that is a "lie"? Because you failed to quote me saying that believers avoid judgment or whatever, now your making up more nonsense. You are wrong, and continue operating in ignorance. It is you who has some reading to do.
>>Or are you going to sit there and say that catholics do not:
>>- Expect you to confess your sins to a priest.
>John 20:23
Did you even read that, chump? I think not. It says nothing of priests in there, and furthermore, it is referring to the authority that Jesus granted his apostles because FORGIVING SIN = HEALING THE SICK. Read the Bible in its entirety. You clowns think a snippet makes your case for you? No, it doesn't.
>>- Claim that saying "hail mary" a few times is "penance"
>There are various types of penance which are at the discretion of the confessor.
And they're all bullshit. Forgiveness from sin is salvation, which is a gift from God. It cannot be earned because Jesus did all that is required to earn it on our behalf.
>The old catholic churches used to have menus of "absolution", with the prices required to be forgiven depending on the particular sin.
>Citation needed.
Is your reddit "debate tactic" of responding to truth with a one-liner working out for you? By failing to refute my statement you've only confirmed it. Thanks for that.
>>As I said, the "out of court settlements" you see today is tithing [to the vatican] in action today.
>LOL
The fools will laugh often.