I want to talk to real leftists in this thread

Cultural Marxism isnt practiced by communists is the thing. It's a liberal tactic to discract the people from communist ideas. By focusing on petty issues like gender neutral bathrooms and gay marriage etc. They divide the proletariat along the lines of sex/race/gender instead of working on class consciousness.

Real communists still agree with these ideas as anyone can be anything under communism, but we focus on the revolution and killing of the bourgeoisie.

I can pretend to be a communist if you want. Just real one not western sjw version this one is beyond human understanding.

Well you have distinctions, there are some who on the surface claim to be leftists but they attempt to enforce their culture onto people and they participate in imperialism into other states. The only thing making them left is a comparison to the right where they prefer some minor social programs or something.

But on the other hand you have those who go out of their way to create "diversity" for seemingly no reason. Jow Forums doctrine teaches diversity is just random bullshit to kill white people but its obviously more sophisticated than that and I've never found a real reason why diversity and globalism has become the new herald of the left over economic issues and actually trying to help the people already within western countries.

Be honest, materialistic socialism died with the USSR and it was supplanted with these types of globalists like a synthesis of western americanized capitalism and culture and eastern social systems and outlook and I'm trying to understand how and why this is happened and they've reached these conclusions in their evolution across the board. You socialists and communists are critical of liberals so I figured you'd have a better eye than a fucking retard like me who is just starting to get into studying.

Ok, socdems then, I was using colloquial termonology.

>and they are indeed marxist
This is just plain wrong, sorry

I’m not leftist either.
I’m as far right as one can be (and no nat soc is still materialistic and leftist)

Go for the actual sources first, read Marx, Lenin and the Theodore Adorno and Gramci. Then if you want the american perspective read Saul Alinsky (he was the mentor of Obama and Hillary) just so you get a taste of how important he was.

Once you’ve done that you’ll know 99% of what you need to fight against it.

Militarised communism is weaker and easier to kill than SJW communism bc of assimetrical warfare.

If you ignore the dialectical nature of communism you are nothing but a pawn

marxism is jewish shit
your mind is in a jewish prison

Name some true marxist organisations in the west then.
I’m from Sweden and every single party that calls them selves communist follows this political path, can’t say for other countries since i’ve only been active politically in Sweden, a communist party once proposed that mass migration was bad for workers in Sweden, they were totally disawowed and the party fucking split.
Workers don’t care about marxism anymore, only privileged college kids do.

You're starting to hit the mark that I was curious about from the start.

So you're saying the comforts of capitalism blind the proletariat of their class consciousness so artificial internal revolution is made by driving wedges between different cultures, ethnicity, and identities to create instability within the core culture of the nation?

How does that relate to class consciousness? It sounds like it just creates division and makes one "culture conscious" if that's a thing.

Marxism is not real materialism. It is idealisting by nature. They believe that somehow their ideas will BTFO real material world.

This is an excellent analysis, it’s why the frankfurt school is a thing.

So you're essentially saying that the concepts of cultural marxism are a liberal capitalist invention to divide the proletariat?

Why is it that those ideas are nearly universally supported across the board by leftists and you're an extreme outlier for that opinion then?

>Implying workers have time or care for faggotry
Oh sweet summer child, diverging from normal sexual relations is as bourgeoisie as possible.

If you study dialectics you will easily see that they are complete an utter bullshit. Just throwing the word into incredibly long and complicated structures without any relation to reality.

>anyone can be anything under communism
Hehe nice one

Democracy is the way to communism bc it kills individuality and as I said, they are marxist (aka historic materialists) not marxian (classic theory by marxs and engels).

By your standard, nobody was marxist but Marx himself bc his theories were changed to help implementation in every different country.

Take China and Russia as examples of that. These were societies that weren’t even capitalist yet and therefore couldn’t have been marxists by your standards.

Needless to say you are wrong.

Your are absolutely right the workers don't have time to care about faggotry thats why it should be allowed.

Well the new left have the "diversity" line for a variety of reasons. But the chief reason is because they're not racists, but they also aren't anti-capitalist or materialist, so they can't explain what racism really is. So they make up idealistic reasons why you shouldn't be racist. You can see the capitalism shine through in the new left when they say "well immigrants are good because they do jobs westerners won't!", as if economic exploitation of immigrants is supposed to be a good thing.

I won't deny marxism is in a rough spot, but its changing. The rough spot was caused by two things:
1. Nationalism during the cold war. Even some of the most ardent leftists fell into chauvinism and lies spread against Russians. They still do it today, spread lies that Russia interfered in the election because they can't deal with the fact they lost and spread dangerous vicious myths against the DPRK, China and Cuba.
2. The wave of communist movements both before and after WW2 forced the first world capitalists to make concessions to the working classes in those countries to keep them from revolt. This went on long enough for most of the first world proletariat to forget about socialism, but now these concessions are being snatched back and things are on the move again.

This. Most modern corporations and the living conditions of most of the world can't motivate most people to bother to want to revolt against the hands that feed them, especially in the west where there isn't even any industry anymore.

You're think serious marxists in the western world would actually oppose globalism for multinational corporations abandoning their economies to sell outsourced products back to them and depriving us of actual industry and work to provide for ourselves and make us globally dependent on a small handful of multinational corps.

But no, these multinational corps donate money to modern leftist movements and at worst people are only slightly discontent about them and forget at the end of a bad news cycle about how bad and manipulative they are.

Communism is the only way for ultimate liberation of the individual through destruction of economic exploitation.

Yeah, like that DSA convention shitshow?

Despite being utter bullshit, their ideology is the backbone of nearly the entire world though? How is that?

You are taking class conscious as their goal, and it isn’t.

It’s just a means to an end to seize power and make an utopia. It doesn’t matter of they will kill millions like russia or china or smoke weed and suck dick.

Destroying capitalism either by force or by poisoning the very culture that birthed it is the ultimate goal, Afterall, according to their theory, only way for true communism to work os if the whole world is communist as the same time

And LGBT+ people aren't workers also? Not every LGBT+ person is some ranting university student, LGBT+ people represent some of the most poor people in society and are very highly represented among the homeless. They are also heavily exploited, chiefly through the porn industry, in which trans people are made to create porn for men in order to buy their acceptance as women.

>why is this?

because they are accelerationists and want to corner white men into a war after which the surviving/victorious whites will create global communism.

it should be patently obvious that if india, china, africa or the middle east are involved in some transnational global conflict, nobody would give a shit, nobody even bothers learning their history or language.

BUT

if europe or america got involved into another conflict, then the world would stop and adopt the behavior of the winner. lefties are "by any means necessary" die hards, they would kill every single african on the planet to achieve their end goals.

>they are marxist (aka historic materialists) not marxian (classic theory by marxs and engels).
This is incoherent.

You make no sense.
The very core of the marxist theory is historical materialism. They take it for a given fact of life.
amd according to historical materialism every human interaction and idea comes out of ideology.

How about instead of overthrowing the corporations and state, replacing it with a new kind of hierarchy, go down the route of national socialism and rid the corporations money down to the proletariat and not overthrow the people at the top?

Purge the corporations of Jewry, put the state above all, liquidate down the funds to whites and asians, and call it a day?

Communism is about destroying only oppresive elements of the culture. Communism does everything possible to educate the masses and allow them to take part in the cultural life like free theater tickets, mass construction of libraries for workers for example.

>What is your interpretation of the radical shift in tone?
Successful brainwashing/psyops/shilling by the capitalist agencies.
>What is "marxist" about them?
Nothing.
>From my perspective it looks like capitalists attempting to unify society to create more consumers and workers in developing markets
Yes. Global banking/fiat money also is a big part of it, the one people least understand. We're being robbed of our labor's fruit every single day via the FED/EZB.
>Why is this?
Because we (marxist-leninists) lost. I've come to terms with that, not gonna have any kids in this capitalist hellhole, don't work hard to make my boss even richer, don't care about growing old.
>Why the dropping of economic concerns and the sudden worship of everything that isn't white, christian, male, and straight beyond any point of sensibility and reason?
Because wannabe marxists have literally zero grasp of Hegeli's dialectics and believe the perverted "socialist" ideas thought up by way smarter capitalist elites to further their own goal. German "leftists" will unironically support the US, NATO, Israel, more taxes on workers but no taxes on corporations etc.

I personally know other hardcore worker marxists who are anti judaism and islam, trans agenda and globohomo. They even support ethnostates to some degree. And we're right, but we're a minority and most have just given up.

Attached: 1500792620815.jpg (680x1020, 67K)

True.
The only purpose of using dialectics is because with it you taint the very meaning of the words and there is no truth anymore just “narratives” “oppinions” and “points of view”.

In other words, you control the discourse of your opponent and therefore you win.

Think of the Orwellian doublethink.

>banhappy autism
What makes you say that :^)

Attached: leftypol official party stance.jpg (1342x383, 140K)

Good thing about Fascism and Communism is they are economically left. Socialist. Power to the worker. However communism is culturally left. That doesn't work. NazSoc and Fascism is culturally right.

You clearly didn't get a single word Hegel or Marx wrote, but that's understandable. "There's no truth" is a meme.

its not.
Both them and marx start at the same point (historic materialism) but take different paths to reach the same goal.

Their end still remains the same.

Remember, how matters less than why for them.

According to their own theory communism will come after the ultimate development of capitalist. According to that logic they should become capitalists themselves to speed up progress. But when it came to real action they just took over one of the least developed capitalist countries and just destroyed all capitalist elements there.

Well yes they aren't racists, but when did this become such a gigantic voice in everything? Where even within the capitalist media and within socialist meetings race, religion, migration, and anything that defies typical western conservatism takes precedence over all. Women's liberation by being retarded and spreading period blood on university walls, black liberation taught by marxist professors that essentially enables black fascism with official support for their messaging and diversity quotas to push out other "oppressed" minorities for the prime spot. I don't understand where the oppression olympics thing came from when we're probably living in a time where the global population overall is less oppressed than its ever been.

Is it a moral or idealistic thing where they just assume that something that may have culturally been repressed at some point is just supreme due to the poor light in which western culture has been painted? Is there some specific theory that encourages it that I don't know about?

I also agree that these concessions are a big deal, but the way our most of western society looks at the failure of these concessions due to economic problems is wanting more without revolutionary socialism and production ownership ever coming to mind rather than more food in the hand to eat from.

>Cultural Marxism isnt practiced by communists is the thing.
But it is

What about tribalism being monkey level degenerate?

Did the world decide at some point that liberal globalism is a superior utopia to socialism then?

Attached: Open discussion on leftypol.png (864x1719, 152K)

What about tribalism?

>what is china

They won't know OP
>read up on the Frankfurt School

Attached: 1520981908616.jpg (1024x775, 262K)

Just wtf is "unity and struggle of the opposites" it can literally mean anything. And they claim it to be a low

Fuuuuuuck no.
Oppresive power structure is modern nu male communism shat out by Freud and Theodore Adorno.

Your version of class struggle was made in the 60s.

Marx did not believe in the oppresive elements of culture, neither did lenin, stalin or Mao. They used culture in their favor to cement power and control the masses.

They didn’t give a flying fuck about oppression, for they were oppresive themselves.

So China dont overthrew dogmatics and fanaticism for more pragmatic attitude. They are based. Whats the problem here

Don't mean to go against the Jow Forums indoctrination but most national socialist economic theory was tossed out the window and Hitler just nationalised the largest industries and threw their profits at random projects. The entire economy was extremely oligarchic and controlled by three or four massive corporations and a lot of his social programs failed and were abused.

The Natsoc bureaucracy was USSR tier. I'm much more sympathetic to natsoc intentions for their own people but in practice it was a clusterfuck.

Power of doublethink. You don't think you are oppressing. That is what Marxism does.

Is the casualization of serious marxism a global thing then?

I don't understand the concept of being culturally left because there is nothing material to gauge society with.

Muh my tribe is superior to the jewish classes. All nationalities are equal. Bourgeosie uses this divisions to divide workers while they all work together. Only class warfare is the real warfare.

True. The economy was god awful cuz he was constantly pumping all of the money into the military. By the time 1939 came around the economy probably would've burst. Autarky was put in a little early.

>it can literally mean anything
Yes, but that's not the point. By looking at the opposite of an (your) idea and analysing it, maybe combining parts, you make it stronger.
It's also a fallacy to imply that dialectics are used in natural science. It's about ideas, not the physical world.

That is what "cultural marxism" and "communism" boils down to: kikes defending their own interests under the "mask" of egalitarianism: those "SJW" professors love to bitch and moan about "white privilege" and in general shit on white people, yet never ever will they even suggest that jews are powerful in our society, because that would make the kikes look bad. When they did USSR, they nationalised everything and had jews themselves rule the country

Their goal is the same.
Destruction of the western way of life.

I like to think of them as enthropy in a sense.

If you belive in the Lord, it’s diabolical in nature. Nothingness and destruction for it’s own sake.

At least that’s how I rationalize it.

Seriously tho the old soviet commies would be considered conservatives and far right in this day of age by modern degenerate lefties. The Soviets were never for this level of societal degeneracy or race mixing. Ironically they were more pro ethnos than America at times. They probably figured out the Christcuck question and knew Christianity was not going to work out for them. I mean look what happened to Rome when they let Christianity float about and didn't integrate their other regions into the similar culture of the mean capital.

Attached: 161.png (600x427, 516K)

By oppressive I mean those that enforce class oppression like church for example.

He can’t tell his ass from his mouth.

You always look at the opposite idea anyways. You don't need dialectics for that

Well it depends, are you talking about these things among marxist or among the new left? They're nothing new. Oppressed groups have always struggled against their oppressors, from the ancient Gauls against the Romans to Blacks against whites today. Marxism has always advocated these struggles, going right back to Marx. Its just the new left don't identify capitalism as the root cause of all this. They think a black billionaire isn't just as bad as a white billionaire, and that female CEOs won't be just as happy to exploit women as male CEOs. The New Left sees everything as ideals and thought, they think they can just *will* racism and sexism to disappear with stupid slogans or Pepsi adverts without abolishing the material conditions that cause it.

I agree that people constantly want more concessions rather than revolution. This is called "trade-union consciousness". Without a revolutionary vanguard to guide them, workers have trouble forming revolutionary consciousness on their own, and often just resort to bargaining with the ruling class rather than overthrowing them. That's what's happening now, and its also why a dedicated, disciplined vanguard party is sorely needed.

Mao literally changed marxism and created agrarian socialism at the time of the revolution!!!

and china has a hybrid system of economy.

Again, dialectics

Unlike your first claim, you’re the one who doesn’t know shit about it.

The real elites have worked on it for over 200 years (including pre-Marx socialism) with unimaginable resources and some of the greatest minds in history. To be honest it's a miracle that the USSR ever existed, and for this long. Just goes to show how great Marx' work is.

I am oppressive and I couldn’t give a flying shit.

I’m all for aristocracy.

I’m not a socialist or a communist in any wat shape or form.

Communism always stands for the FRIENDSHIP OF NATIONS never segregation.

Not all races are equal. I dont hate them, but there will always be differences in people. On the surface level, we are always human but if you break it down through stats and just knowing them you will discover we are diffrent.

Through Marxism, Marxists want to combine all races and religions into one place, trying to ensure "peace." As the theory says that if everyone is equal, nobody will hate eachother.

Look at Yugoslavia. They died. Because religon and races aren't supposed to mix. I'm sorry friend, but they arent supposed to. I'm not saying we cant communicate, or enjoy their culture. We humans are curious.

What I am advocating for is keeping in touch with your race, your culture. You obliviously can indulge in other peoples music, food, history, religion, and culture. For you see, the only true way to achieve global peace and true multiculturalism is if we were divided into our own groups.

Workers and the preservation of the culture and race are the only 2 things a ideology should truly accomplish. Capitalism is a Jewish trick, and honestly Capitalism and Communism are the same thing if you break it down.

Eventually, the Corporation or the Proletariat will get way to much power. The state is supposed to be there to manage the balance.

Attached: kangs2.png (959x539, 470K)

I oppose tribalism too but the ironic thing is the modern left and liberals put non-whites, muslims, gays, and others on a pedestal in hopes of equality and they're just tribalistic with this newfound attention and power and nobody questions that because it would be oppressive.

First world progressive nations that even get past things like religion and oppression of women will just open their doors in the name of diversity for some reason and welcome hyper religious misogynist and nationalist populations in and just let them go for some reason. Turks and Kurds literally fight in the streets of Germany. What's the point of it? If there is a population issue, why not address the cultural and financial issues that are causing it instead of replacing them with antithetical third worlders who run against all cultural progress the nation has made? Who barely even work, so the financial argument doesn't even make sense? Why?

Its questions like that that make so many confused and outraged people on Jow Forums believe in white genocide. There's literally no reasoning to the behavior outside of "shut up we live in a diverse and equal society" which was deliberately created. It's like Europe wants to copy American liberalism so bad they import their own black population to apologize to.

Brainwashed idiots who operate on nothing more than their ideology don't. The people with shit jobs who vote conservative, the inner city inhabitants who celebrate miration etc. They completely ignore the opposite.

You dont hold power. You dont matter. Just a prole like me.

keep thinking that pleb
there are no intellgient leftists
both left and right are pawns
the right is actually a step up
but both are pawns
leftists are the pure NPCs, they are the the infantry of the globohomo agenda and its propagandists online
rights are the "I took the redpill I'm free"(still pawn) to diverge from anyone trying to "get woke"
and centrists and all the rest are useless
the entire political spectrum is made up by them

Why?

I believe people do the things they do for some reason they think if just and I'm getting sick of attributing it to some jew saying "oy vey dirty goyim".

>inb4 I made a grammer mistake
>hehehe argument invalid!

Church is not immanent but transcendent. They could care less about class struggle.

Again, viewing power structures and exploitation is post frankfur schule.

Sorry to break it to you but you have no idea what you’re fighting for.
As I said before, just another pawn.

Read Julius Evola and Vogelin unpretentiously when you have the time and open your own eyes.

Didn't the USSR at one point enforce "cultural modesty" like a kind of cultural conservatism?

Not that I find that kind of thing interesting, it's just the polar being shilling for no reason bugs me.

Your post was referring to "them", which had nothing it actually referred to. So the last part made no sense because it sounded like it referred to the (larger) communist party, which includes China. Of course they're not a communist state, but my interpretation is that they're utilizing capitalism until they hit a technological utopia because of an infinite energy source.

I have the power of knowledge and I have power over my own decisions.
And I’m not a materialistic I don’t give a flying fuck about “power” as you see it.

You and me are not the same.

They are not the same, but they are obviously born equal. Inequality is the product of environment. Yugoslavia dissolved because of bourgeois ie conterrevolution that used national card to divide working class. "Divide and rule" as always.

Very well put user.

Yes we are. We are both proles. The only thing that separates us is our culture. Brazil is such a beautiful country.

>checked
you got lucky it matches your memeflag
>only kikes use those around here

Also this
>Fellow White People

Attached: 1565323459092.png (5052x2526, 1.44M)

>still can't tell the difference between centrists and worker communists
The church dabbles a lot in economy and politics for not giving a shit about reality.

Ethnostates are the opposite of segration. Internationalism is between nations and people of different cultures, globalism is a world "nation" with one uncultured mutt race. Fuck Adorno, fuck Habermas, fuck Horkheimer. Bourgie scum.

Church always serves the rulling elite and claims that higher classes are put there because of God's will. And throws lower classes to apathy through offering of eternal life n shiet

Not a lefty, but I think I know more than the average Jow Forumsack about the subject.

Socialism/Communism was a kike tool to bring down Western civilization. It demonstrably failed early in the last century, and the core of Jews who had sustained it finally abandoned it around WW2.

These Jews decided to re-evaluate their tactics and formulated a plan to attack us via culture/race rather than economics (critical theory), and this has proven a much more effective tool.

Technically, what we call "cultural marxism" isn't "marxist" at all (it has nothing to do with class struggle, workers revolution, etc) , it's just where many of the people who used to push marxism (mostly kikes) migrated to. The only major carryover is Hegelian dialectics, wherein "bourgeois & proletariat" have been replaced by "oppressive whites & oppressed POC".

Modern-day Marxists (socialists) are just useful idiots who got left behind. They think that "cultural marxism/critical theory" is "just neoliberals being dumb", and they refuse to recognize the enormous migration of their former comrades into this line of thinking. They (the useful idiots) truly believe in Marxism, and they cannot conceive that a huge chunk of people in the past (namely kikes) pushed it as a means to an end (the destruction of the West).

These modern day Marxists also claim to be "too smart for ID-pol" or whatever, but are COMPLETELY INCAPABLE of dealing with it. Critical theory defeats and dominates them more and more every single day. Your average modern Marxist would take a fat dump on Lenin's corpse and wipe with Das Kapital if a tranny told them to do so.

Marxism is dead.
"Cultural Marxism/Critical Theory" is the true threat.

The PC-USA Has Died From IDpol:
youtube.com/watch?v=JBKYA2aeXHA
(trannies and degenerates destroy US-based Communist party)

E Michael Jones on the Baader Meinhof Gang and the End of the Left:
youtube.com/watch?v=6C05yFUPfM0

Attached: 44e.jpg (400x400, 28K)

I have no idea. Truly.
My only guess is that once you destroy your inner self so much fighting for the collective and materialism that you lose your sense of purpose and magnify enthropy.

Take for example a deug addict. He destroyed himself seeking cheap pleasure and now will drag everyone around him to the gutter because the normal life other people have is so far away from his that his very presence breaks cohesion and harmony. This always happens regardless of his personal intentions

Soviets were hardcore Nationalists too
like you said, the left has gone so far off the deep end they really aren't even a threat
>Democratic Socialists Convention
topkek

Attached: 1524100436810.jpg (949x918, 370K)

>I know more than the average Jow Forumsack about the subject.
>Socialism/Communism was a kike tool to bring down Western civilization.

Haha yeah stopped reading there.

Ethnostate as any other state will be unnecessary after achieving communism.

They are not born equal. Your race is unfortunately your defining feature of your life. Honestly, it is. Marxism promises you this escape from discrimination. They blame whites for the problems. Honestly, what happend to the the worker shit with communism? Communists no longer care about things like workers rights.

Off topic. But honestly communism is a failure of a system, with good intentions but just simply falls dead on the spot.

good for you

Attached: Lev Davidovich Bronstein.jpg (1000x1260, 169K)

Okay, so I'm beginning to piece together that this isn't inherently a marxist thing, it's a new left liberal thing. But that still doesn't make sense, or explain why this way of thinking is found in nearly all liberals and marxists aside from the purists.

Its as if they are fabricating causes for oppression for the sake of it to combat an oppressive culture so they can make some kind of social revolution where every single deviation between humans good and bad is accepted. Even though they blatantly fabricate much of the oppression out of thin air for no clear reason that I can see. Like screaming a white person in college for being responsible for slavery despite having no connection to it, or a black person who is 150 years disconnected for slavery somehow still being oppressed despite actually having a universally better and blatantly privileged life through diversity scholarships and preferential treatment within their school system solely on the basis of race. And ironically all of this is in the name of "equality", but in practice its just the white population bowing their heads to black, gay, and female chavinism to goes to the point of genocide and violence tier extremes while white people clap for people who blatantly threaten them?

Its as if white people and western culture itself was made out to be a physical bourgeois class to be internally dismantled and destroyed, completely disregarding any sort of material or rational explanation that a purist marxist would usually have but in recent decades hasn't.

Also, how do you raise revolutionary consciousness when society as a whole does not want a revolution but rather internal reform for concessions?