Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Socialism is lower-stage communism in Marxian terms, which is the transitional stage between capitalism and communism. Under socialism, the state controls all the major centers of economic power.
The USSR and every other one of those states with a communist party in power had socialism. China, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Vietnam and the DPRK have socialism now. Every single one of these acknowledge that they do/did not have communism, but socialism as they still have a state and money.
The goal of socialist states is to eventually have communism, with the withering away of the state as Lenin described in "State and the Revolution" when we have advanced technology enough to have complete material abundance and most jobs are automatized, but that's in the very distant future. Under socialism, things are produced to be used and consumed, not according to profit. A socialist state's main goal is to improve the living standards for its citizens, which they have succeeded in doing every single time.
There you go, those are the Marxian definitions of communism and socialism.
>The goal of socialist states is to eventually have communism, with the withering away of the state as Lenin described in "State and the Revolution" when we have advanced technology enough to have complete material abundance and most jobs are automatized,
>My political system only works in the case that we have already achieved utopia through magical quantum delivery of infinite goods and resources.
Sounds wonderful. Have you considered using your time to seek gainful employment instead?
The Soviet Union went from a shithole with almost complete illiteracy and frequent famines to the world's second biggest economic power in a very short amount of time under Stalin. They completely wiped out illiteracy, ended the trend of frequent famines, provided free housing, healthcare and education for all citizens and had no unemployment. They had paid maternity leave, subsidised holidays to nice resorts and 8 hours work days waaay before anybody in the West. They defeated the nazis. They built the biggest hydroelectrical power plant in the world and electrified the entire country. They invented space travel, cell phones, led lights and satellites. As some old Russian said: Stalin found us with wooden ploughs and left us with atomic piles.
Caleb Cox
We had communism here. You are full of shit. Typical class enemy.
Andrew Wilson
Yeah, Kleptonomics is nothing if not efficient at centralizing power.
That's not an endorsement of Communism, it's actually an endorsement of concentrating all the power in a small body of men.
Aka; the party.
What you are actually endorsing is aristocracy.
Thomas Walker
communism only exists to betray the working class, it's another false consciousness.
Ethan Myers
OP is a fag. Show flag niggerling. sageru
Jayden Miller
he industrialized a shithole, all other countries around to compete were already industrialized years earlier through capitalism
How do you explain away chinas exponential growth that lifted the greatest amount of people out of poverty in such a short amount of time while becoming a world player shortly after Deng's market economic reforms?
How do you defend lenin having to enact the NEP because shit was getting too drastic?
You're right REAL socialism hasnt been tried because it along with communism is a pipe dream. Go ahead and call me a pseud idiot like all you valiant leftists do while you cram your face into books about early 1800s agrarian ideology and economic policy. Capitalism is fucked but your alternative is not the way forward. Its time for... dare I say.. a modern third position
That's because you sold all the grain to buy machines from the Americans leading to a shit ton of deaths. This just after America bailed you out of a famine recently. You guys are fucking retards.
Aaron Powell
China is currently socialist.
Adrian Jenkins
I live in a third-world country with a government that presented itself as a socialist, and now this place is slowly going to end up like Venezuela. The worst part is that they are trying to do the possible to “show” the outside world that we are living in a paradise, kind of like the shit you’re saying.
Nathan Lewis
Based and breadpilled. Once the proletariat is united, we cannot be stopped.
Sebastian Price
Dude......
Jayden Wood
lol fuckn retard
Carter Fisher
I live in social-democracy that's moving further and further left, its not good.
Its total bullshit and economy is going to shit because of it.
Lincoln Thomas
Communism is jewish ideology
Xavier Sanchez
and all niggers are black but not all blacks are human
Jonathan Barnes
Another important point to make: The socialism we advocate in the modern age is democratically-controlled worker-owned cooperatives, rather than large corporations or the state. A majority of socialists now are seeking to put the workplace under democratic control, not hand it over to the state.
communism=socialism=human rabies it's a fucking disease, you twat
James Jones
socialism is a fucking disease get it through your head socialists are a plague they are violent pests, not people their brains have been taken over by the disease
Sebastian Russell
communism is for boomers >here goy just base your entire economic system on this 100 year old book written when we didn't even have cars
yang is the best combination of capitalism + socialism. $1000.
Daniel Collins
Do you pie in the sky retards ever think about what you type out.
Yeah the neoliberal ruling class is gonna let you out of their tight grasp and you'll form democratically-controlled worker-owned cooperatives.. wow very cool francis.
Start advocating for a total collapse first
Joseph Moore
socialism in Russia is different from socialism everywhere else because nobody wants to live in Russia therefore you can get away with levels of socialism that would turn other places into the most degenerate toilets you can imagine using Russia as an example for socialism is simply ignoring Russian exceptionalism and the fact that it is so fucking cold and desolate there that it is difficult to keep people alive in the first place, so a fuck ton of socialism mostly goes unnoticed
Sebastian Anderson
>here goy have $1000 while we take your gun rights away
Dumbass, why do you think socialists are always talking about revolution? This is a strawman argument. Nobody expects the rich to hand us the deed for free. This is why "Sieze the means of production" is a thing.
Kevin Cox
Both Russia and China did something unique in Marxism
They overstepped the required Capitalist stage of society and went straight to Socialism from Feudalism. Marxist Orthodoxy forbids this. It was such a big deal in the USSR that Lenin and Stalin both had to ass-pull some idea that the October Revolution itself was their Capitalist stage.
>How do you defend lenin having to enact the NEP because shit was getting too drastic? Because Russia wasn't Western Europe. Socialism needed to take place in the West, where the advanced industry and production was. It's also the place where workers had genuinely suffered the most (Russians suffered too, but it was mostly the peasantry who outnumbered the workers massively). Lenin's whole deal was safeguarding Socialism until help from the West could arrive. There was no other way forward, so implementing the NEP and awaiting that day was the best course of action.
Also, Deng's success goes hand-in-hand with the massive emphasis placed on heavy industry via Mao. That kind of emphasis is symptomatic of the Stalinist system which he adopted. So China's success can be chopped up to a mix of Socialist and Capitalist elements, which persists today with state-controlled enterprise being forced to benefit China itself primarily.
William Williams
Bait post, meme flag, Doesn't matter, you're still a fag.
You're gonna get the rope same as the rest of them, you little fucking shit. No tolerance, no mercy.
National socialism is only only acceptable socialism.
Luke Green
>A socialist state's main goal is to improve the living standards for its citizens, which they have succeeded in doing every single time. fuck off tankie retard
Matthew Campbell
>ruling class in tsarist russia is a monarchy on shaky grounds with the people who are starving and fed up with them >millions die in the transition to lenin >pre red china is a loose confederation of warlords states held together by the nationalists aided by a united conflict against the japs >terribly bloody revolution
What im getting at here is that in these formative years these countries rulers didnt have firm grips on power and the population was disgruntled to say the least.
Okay now your dealing with a neoliberal ruling class thats roots are globalized and set up in a way so that you cut off one head and theres another to replace it. Everything is firmly established and people are fat and happy with their distractions.
So not only are you fighting a ruling class thats xxxxxx times stronger the average person is gonna be like "eyyy woah pal i just wanna do the grind and come home and watch tv and browse netflix bud... this revolution shits gonna make my phone bill go up!" While back then you had poor low quality of life literal almost slaves to foment a revolution.
Total bloody collapse is the only way you will ever escape from under the thumb of neoliberalism. Almost everyone will perish in the process and dont think you'll be the smart strong one who will overcome and rise from the ashes and build a """democratically-controlled worker-owned cooperative"
Just think LMAO
Caleb Roberts
They didn't have a firm grip on power because they continually disregarded the will of the people. The Tsars had maintained absolutist rule over Russia for centuries, so much so that the idea of revolution was unimaginable. But people were no longer contented with their lot in life and wanted something different, especially when they were looking at what was happening in Western Europe.
This gets to the heart of the issue. Just because some people want to sit at home and watch Netflix doesn't mean everyone will be happy with that existence forever. When you consider how many people are on the brink of destitution and that real wages are stagnant, while our culture is becoming more and more oriented around the lives of the super rich, then you could absolutely envisage people getting fed-up with the system. Much like the Russians, many Americans are clearly dissatisfied when looking at how things work in Europe (Bernie's campaign in 2016 was practically revolving around implementing the Nordic model). So it's not unlikely that an overhaul of the system could be discussed.
People protest all the fucking time now, too. It doesn't take much for an average person to get upset and want to march on the streets. If anything, it's easier now than ever.
Jayden Barnes
We are headed for a terrible bloody collapse regardless of whether or not somebody tries to build something in the aftermath. Neoliberals are causing it themselves. Of course, you're probably a conservative, so your head is probably in the sand about climate change. Shit is going to get real bad in the next 20 years unless the ruling class make some serious concessions to reality.
Samuel Rogers
Again your equating tsarist russias grip on the people to that of a globalized neoliberal cabal of unimaginable capital with superstructures in place to calm dissent, subvert/obfuscate radical movements, and repair itself.
And again your comparing the level of distrust and struggle of a peasant to that of your average westerner that has just enough comforts.
Im sure those pansy protests will work bro.
Yea keep protesting to own the ruling class
Nicholas Hughes
but you are asian user, did you already forget that? you literal retard.
I'm equating it to Tsarist Russia not because the ruling classes are the same, but because the people's attitudes changed with the times. The workers and peasants would have been happy to accept the same conditions only a century prior, but as the system languished and could no longer provide continual improvements, they rose up.
Yes the systems are quite different, but the subversion and obfuscation of radical movements as you described has always been done through an elevation in the quality of life. The US' best argument against Socialism has always been that people are relatively happy enough. However, there are a lot of signs that people are becoming dissatisfied or disillusioned with the course of things. That sentiment is what stimulates change, radical or otherwise.
>that has just enough comforts Which is changing. Many westerners are painfully aware that they won't be able to do the same things their parents and grandparents did with ease (owning a house, raising a family with a single job, live in a healthy community, etc.)
