I am convinced. Atheists are intellectually inferior...

Okay asshat, then you need to prove to us how and why the universe exists. BUT YOU CAN'T because you don't fucking know do you? Fine, then pull your shit out of the public school system if it isn't fact. Why should children be taught shit that we don't even know is true or not? "Muh quantum mechanics" So? Quantum mechanics has a cause and you need to explain what that cause is.

There is plenty circumstantial evidence.

Of course. Only a fool says in his heart, "There is no God", which is the definition of an atheist. To know such a fact, for certain, would require infinite knowledge. And then I would be confronted by a person with infinite knowledge telling me that no being with infinite knowledge exists.
Fools.

It's correct literally by definition. If you want to back off of an indefensible position, call yourself an agnostic.
Which is synonymous with ignoramus, in the latin.

Right. I would consider atheists as "wannabe intellectuals." I do not consider someone who is too lazy to consider ALL possible variables to be intelligent at all.

>energy cannot be created nor destroyed
>therefore energy must have been created
kek

There is far more evidence for the existence of Bigfoot than there is for Yahweh.

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too bad for you god is logically sound

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*this is deism btw...

You do, actually, whether you think you do or not.
The existence of the universe has three, and only three, possible sources.
1. The universe is infinite.
2. The universe created itself.
3. The universe was created by something outside of the universe.
Those are your choices, Leaf.

I define atheism as the lack of belief in any gods.

youtube.com/watch?v=14YM7MP6HzY

I define you as a being from Mars.
How's Mars doing these days?

Great quote.

I think that we exist is plenty enough evidence for a creator.

It cant. Our laws which govern thermodynamics says it cant.

but at some point it was...at least once it was created...not hard to understand.

When intelligence is illuminated by love and belief, that is faith. Faith supplies the need of evidence the individual carries, it is a belief which may be not true.
Do you believe that hard problems exist in computer science, or are they merely an illusion that we will learn to see past? If we never learn to see past the illusion, is that not evidence that hard problems are a fundamental fact of the universe? Likewise, God must be unknowable beyond divine revelation to the individual.
We likely will never know for sure, but one thing is certain, you either have faith or you do not. I choose to augment my intelligence with love because it makes life more beautiful and meaningful to me.

>afraid to research what they don't understand.
What research are atheists avoiding?

Pretty good. Nice weather today.

Therefore energy must have come from outside, to create this universe.
Deism.
Keep going, Theism.
Keep going, Christian.

>at least once it was created
Or it simply exists.

Or study physics to a sufficient extent that they find where human knowledge breaks down

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4) created by something part of universe

Option 1, with a load of asterisks on that word infinite.

So why should I believe in a creator over those other two perfecty reasonable choices?

Er, faith is just the human ability to belive something that you have not seen. Everyone has faith. It is the object of that faith that is crucial. Faith in humanity will always fail. Faith in the angels will always fail. Faith in the risen Christ Jesus will never fail.

>at least once it was created
What evidence is there to suggest this? Rather, prove that the universe and the energy within it have not always existed without any act of creation.

Ha!
No internet connection to Mars proves you lie, and do so flippantly.

It's evidence, but not good enough evidence.

I think Sagan's point is that we have to be open to the possibility that a God exists, without blindly believing it either

>Therefore energy must have come from outside, to create this universe.
Nope.

definition of atheism...

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

except that nobody can prove or disprove god...so atheists are in the same bind at theists.

>Christian why that over anything else?

If you keep pushing the creation of the universe "backwards in time", you eventually come to the same conclusion that Aristotle came to.
There must be a First Cause.
There must be an Unmoved Mover.

Yeah, I don't shit turds, they just make themselves in my toilet.

Probably because he revealed himself to mankind as the most famous person in history written of in the most widely disseminated books of all time.
Or, if you have a scientific bent.

We clearly do have internet connection to Mars though. You defined me as a being from Mars. Therefore, the planet I am from is called Mars by definition. The planet I am on is the third from the sun.

This

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And the creation of that "part of the universe" that created the rest.....where did that come from, again?

>There must be a First Cause.
The first cause is the beginning of the universe.

Yup.
The power of God in creation is undeniable, and in denying it, you stand before God without excuse.
Infinite downside.
No upside.
Are you a rational actor?

this

>There must be
It is equally logical to say that the universe has always existed. Only those with a biased agenda to push declare that "there must be" anything when no evidence supports that declaration.

Not really. They have yet to explain the causes and reasons that everything exists. To say "Everything exists simply to exist" is a logical fallacy.

Because it's centered on the person and divinity of Jesus Christ, God the Son, the creator of the universe, and its redeemer through his finished work on the cross, as proven by his resurrection.

Yes, thank you for again illustrating my point that in redefining words the way you want to, you lack all capacity for communication with others.

Burden of proof goes both ways.
On the one hand, we can't prove that there's a mystical all-powerful creature who's omnipotent and omniscient.
On the other, we can't prove that there's no such thing.
At the bare minimum, God is a set of ideas. Patriarchal family for one. The Ten Commandments for another. Many more stories and principles like that are observable.
These ideas do exist. In that capacity, God is real.
Anything else is of no significance.

Where is your evidence to support that the universe has always existed?

The only evidence that I have of God exists is by means of testing his scriptures philosophy and seeing if they bring me peace.

Not allowing gays in your world does bring peace, so God exists.

Check and mate, now king me.

>The power of God in creation is undeniable, and in denying it
How can it be undeniable if I can deny it?
>Infinite downside.
>No upside.
Only if you are correct. If not, then it's quite possible that you're the one with infinite downside.

The story of Jesus wasn’t original. Most of Christianity isn’t original.

So you believe the universe created itself.
If I create a painting, I pre-exist the painting. X => Y.
By you saying the universe created itself, you say X precedes X, and that X, the existence of X, precedes X, the creation itself. X => X. Logical fail.

cause and effect is a law of the universe.

This

Is Joseph the original cuck?

Only those with a loose grasp of the laws that run this place would think the universe could be infinitely old.
Heat death, much?

>you lack all capacity for communication with others.
Clearly I don't though, as we are communicating. You can define words any way you like as long as you are clear on your definitions.

Faith is a product of intelligence. It can be wrong, but if you have no intelligence you cannot believe in anything.

This is one of the most pointless cliche threads I've seen on this board. What are you sliding?

You're quite wrong.

You think Epistemology and Ontology are the same: they aren't.

And, by and fucking large, any self-identifying Agnostic is an actual Agnostic Atheist too afraid to own their Atheism due to its negative baggage, so they hide behind Agnosticism alone to appear as middle-men.

>disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Correct.

>except that nobody can prove or disprove god...so atheists are in the same bind at theists.

Huh? Lacking belief doesn't need to be proven/disproved. The Gnostic Theist is in the bind here as they need proof behind the "knowledge."

BBC is the white man God now.

aliens made us. get based.

Of course we can. His inspired Word of God tells the future precisely, demonstrating knowledge of the end from the beginning.
You have to discount and discard all of the evidence in the bible to say that there is no evidence, and in doing so, you do nothing but reveal bias. Not you personally, but in general.

>So you believe the universe created itself.
No, the universe would simply exist and be the first cause.

Because God is empowering you through a grant of sovereignty to reject his offer of eternal life.
Your agency is real, and God will respect your choice.

It's unique.
the stories you think precede and predict the story of Jesus, were changed after the lifetime of Jesus.

>Because God is empowering you through a grant of sovereignty to reject his offer of eternal life.
Prove it.

Nope. It's like sight, sound, touch, feel, and taste. It's human, and not correlated with intelligence. In fact, if it is correlated, it's correlated inversely.

That's the point, there is no evidence supporting either position. Both must be considered equally possible and therefore any definitive statement which excludes one is based in bias.

But the Bible can be demonstrated to be fiction. For instance, there is no evidence to support the Exodus narrative coming from the Egyptian records. Furthermore, the origin story of Moses is clearly copied from that of Sargon of Akkad. The Bible is filled with such inaccuracies.

Exactly my point. Fools pretend to be in the middle of the road, when there is no middle of the road to be found, only cowardice.
Be a proud fool.
Be a loud fool.
It's all you have.

Does a roach believe or disbelieve humans exist?

No. It just dies when sprayed with Raid. Roaches can't interact with humans nor can disbelieving in them stop the inevitable death by them.

Let's mock Christians who seek to talk to God and not have Him dead us, cause He can at anytime.

In case you were confused about God and His Existence.

So, eternal.
The universe is eternal.
Despite us not being in heat death right now.
I don't think you understand how the universe works.

the bible says that jews were slaves eho built the pyramids, but we now know that isnt true.

why did god lie?

if jesus was taking the middle east by storm, why did historians like josephus and pliny the elder not write about him but extensively write about mundane political events in Rome?

Yes believing in a man who lives in the sky and controls everything is VERY VERY SMART!!

Panhandle is correct. Kant made a similar argument — one can neither prove nor disprove God with logic and reason, but Kant does make an interesting argument that their are objective morals, something a human is incapable of creating, which means they stem from a higher intelligence, or God.

If so, then the "universe" is God.

God is eternal too.

Based and redpilled

>The universe is eternal.
If you define eternal as existing for all time, then yes. If you define eternal as not having a beginning, then no.
>I don't think you understand how the universe works.
I don't think you understand spacetime.

You're defying the will of the Almighty, right now, that wants you to believe, and be saved.
You are your own proof of your own sovereignty, because it is God's express will that none be lost, but you're demanding it.
And God will honor your choice.
He will not force you to return his love, or live with him, ever.

Actually we do. We’re made of shit that stars cooked up. We came from stars. Or a more annoying answer is we came from our mommies bageegoo

You cannot point to a time where god did not exist in the mind of man.

This is the key framing issue that a-tards seem to win, that the existence of god is not the status quo.

To me it is blatantly obvious that the burden of proof falls on the accuser and therefore the atheist who accused god of inexistence.

To me god is simply the sum aggregate of everything that existed, exists and is yet to exist material, mental or otherwise. The seed from which everything came and will return to.
To argue that God doesn't exist is to argue that you don't exist. Ground I'm more than happy to conceed.

I see where you are coming from, but what possesses faith with no intelligence?

Nah, faith is looking to the future a d knowing your works will show its benefits.

Which is concrete evidence, buy basing it on evidence that takes time to propagate.

Faith without works is dead, and Visa versa. Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for.

Essentially, the opposite of instant gratification, which is a clear sign of lack of emotional control and intelligence.

You're wrong.

Why would I call the universe God when universe is already a perfectly good word?

Massive Egyptian accounts that can pin the Exodus to a certain pharoah whose second son took over, 1463ish BC, including a depiction of the event carved into cliffs in the Valley of the Kings.

Prove that any of that is true.

What isn't smart is making assumptions that everyone shares the same concept of what God is.

I know you didn't read it otherwise you'd see that we're living Revelations as we speak. You better hope Jesus doesn't decide to return to us or you're fucked

Yup, which is why he made mankind eternal, from conception forward.
God has no origin.
There is no "time" before God, because God is the Great I Am, I Am That I Am, aka I Will Be That I Will Be.

Creation.

I'm sure you don't, because you're implying that things with origins are eternal.