Modern quantum computers running AI are more than enough to deal with pricing, quantification of raw materials and valuation (the problem they had in the USSR ie. the classical problem of calculation that Austrian economists claimed was an axiom of universal physics). The problem could have actually been solved with the technology of the day (via the Telitext system) only it wasnt thought of in time. Theres absolutely no reason that we cant transition immediately to fully automated luxury communism, other than the stated aversion to culture shock and, the actual underlying covert reason - which is that artificial scarcity must be sustained to retain the power-class differential. The technology currently being used is also decades if not centuries behind whats actually available. Its not used, again, to maintain the position of the power elite via artificial scarcity. The Star Trek tier abundance economy or the future could be a reality of the present if not for your primitive sanctification of an ideology we provided you with for no other purpose but to amass the technological capacities required for the coming transition. Alas, it was not expected that you would be so stubborn and dogmatic in your religiosity regarding the configuration you call ''free market capitalism'' (it is not, nor was it ever a free market). The ideology itself, tied into the notion of parliamentary republicanism served as a temporal motivator that has now passed its use by date. ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf
yea maybe but at some point it would not be communism anymore. To allocate efficiently while having decentralization. You need a free spread of information. "capitalism" works because the money is supposed to act as an indicator/information. It doesn't work when the information is manipulated and/or assets are. Centralization is theoretically possible with machines that can supposedly predict every outcome. This isn't currently feasible and arguably undesirable because of targeted attacks and manipulation prone.
Ethan Sullivan
It wasn't real computerism.
Jason Sanders
Stopped at quantum. You're a retard.
Cooper Reed
No it won't Now kys
Hudson Lopez
Communism can't work and Star Trek is based on naive thought that everything will turn out to be fine if people are just good to each other. It's a childs fantasy.
Adrian White
tldr
However, what I really like is that Starfleet (aka the Navy) is pretty much in charge of everything. The 4star Starfleet Admirals are making all major decisions and I have never seen an episode where the crew of the Enterprise goes to the voting booth or discussed politics.
So essentially, this is like Starship Troopers combined with Yang’s “everyone gets housing and food and clothing and Holodeck time” promise.
That said, it was partially our misestimation of aspects of your psychology that created this problem. We underestimated the desire and will of your domestic power elite to retain its position due to the status power differential over all else. It would seem that a large component of your society have internalized this thought process via the proxy of certain ideologies. Many would rather forgo large scale structural economic and technological betterment in order to preserve relatively minor (but subjectively large) power-status differentials. The success of the ruling group in generalizing its own ideology has made it difficult to transition without conflict. However given the stubborn refusal of this bloc to accept the program which is demonstratively beneficial to everyone on all available metrics, force will eventually be used.
I love how people point to Star Trek as “communism working” when they don’t discuss how they are in a state of eternal war, and in canon billions of humans died in wars on earth to get to that point. It would be a living hell.
Jason Scott
What do you think billionaire jews like Zuck, Bezos, and the Google kikes are trying to do?
Jonathan Turner
Communism won't work with humans. Period.
Hell, even a portion of ants are lazy fucks in the colony living off of the majority.
Jayden Ross
Good comment in terrible thread. I tell my buddy regularly that I think the current humans alive are at the beginning of the worst period to be alive for human beings. We're in a weird era now that just started (about 30 years ago) where expansionism from technology and indsutrializtion is pretty much over. We will now be living in a period of resource restriction for however many hundreds of years it takes before leaving the planet to travel into the stars is cheap enough that most can afford it.... so a long time.
If we had cheap fusion power with star trek replicators, the ability to leave the solar system and travel elsewhere, then the governments of humanity would break down and be separate entities, because at this point there is no control of resources with which to impose rules.
Sebastian Cox
no. die commufag. just die. we will never accept communism and will kill you first so either stfu forever about it or die. because that will be the outcome.
Grayson Flores
I for one welcome our space age traveling communist Hopefully we can go to Mars before it get's speared with a "Tesla" flag, but probably not
The federation has a president it just doesn't come up often...
Tyler Baker
no, commies tried that in a secret project
Angel Morgan
Can't argue with that. Scarcity would be nill for those who travel space first and exploit. But that also poses an issue too. Ever expanding universe ever decreasing scarcity. Traditional money would be pointless and computers may not keep up.
John Price
The important thing to throw in those people's faces is that the "enlightened" society in star trek was only possible because of technology impacting resources scarcity and that the cultural evolution was not the source but rather a symptom.
Luis Murphy
You mistake post-scarcity society with communism. The latter has nothing to do with reality, btw, you fucking mongolid.
Anthony Clark
So the president can’t be very important. Politics cannot be important. Elections cannot be important.
Charles Adams
star trek can happen but first two things can happen
1. two massive world wide eugenics wars where the average iq of humanity is raised significantly (very little of the star trek lore directly explores the eugenics wars but it is very obvious how important they were if you read between the lines, it's not coincidence that Zephram Cochrane develops warp drive with spare parts with his trusty negro side kick just barely two generations after the conclusion of world war iii which revolved around genetically modified super men similar to the Khan centered eugenics wars that preceded it)
and
2. the ability to manipulate matter on an atomic level and synthesize pretty much whatever you want in infinite quantities via what is basically alchemy (replicators) leading to a post scarcity economy
and
3. some kind of massive slave force or robots to work in the dilitium mines (again not talked about too much in the canon but it is said dilithium cannot be replicated and therefore needs to be mined so even a post scarcity economy still isn't post scarcity)
Star Trek communism works because they have solved the basic problem of economics and live in a post-scarcity society. It is completely different than what we have IRL. Also let's not kid ourselves, any new USSR would be fiercely combated by capitalists until it's destruction, even if it's economic system works.
Joseph Bennett
>Modern quantum computers running AI are more than enough to deal with pricing, quantification of raw materials and valuation
Hey OP, could you show me a small fragment of quantum computing code that adds a couple numbers? I never know how to make use of the "value uncertain" bit state.
You seem to know a great deal about quantum computing, and I'm eager to learn.
Brandon Sanchez
To add to the other comments. Consumer preferences aren't entirely logical. A computer cannot possibly cater to human needs. Not to mention you're creating a very real incentive to reduce variants of a product (less variants mean less inventory to keep track of across the supply chain) So you still haven't solved "communism only making red tractors" problem.
And your computer will never value intellectual property correctly. Art and music and movies are entirely dependent on people who are consuming it. A computer cannot tell which is better than the other.
You're just describing human nature. Everybody is out for themselves. Your magical fantasy land where everyone toes the line doesn't exist.
Plus it doesn't matter if it merely works. The debate is whether it is better than a capitalist star trek. No wonder the honorverse is based. You can clone slaves in there.
Chase Brooks
Communism is still tyranny.... You eliminate individual rights, freedom, and sovereignty for collective resource distribution and control over peoples lives.
Jaxson Jackson
Why, they couldn't divide X production between Y population before?
Levi James
And give the control over that to everyone. Freedom is when single person, some monarch, controls that?
Lucas Cooper
>to everyone To a computer program
Kayden Russell
>it's not coincidence that Zephram Cochrane develops warp drive with spare parts with his trusty negro side kick just barely two generations after the conclusion of world war iii which revolved around genetically modified super men similar to the Khan centered eugenics wars
It’s a completely tabu subject in Star Trek, but apparently the reason why there are Chinese, Russians, French, Canadians, Brazilians, Africans, Scots etc. ... but no Germans is that Germany got wiped out in ww3.
>Star Trek >Communism >Ignores the Years of Mass Genocide that reduced the number of Humans on the planet >??? >op is a homo
Jaxon Moore
The federation isn't communist, it's a fascist style technocracy , it was based on the1930's version of a technocracy , not the mid 70's version
Julian Carter
>modern quantum computers running AI >still needs humans to transcribe conversations
Yuh huh.
Isaac Cooper
If you actually watch star trek, and read between the lines as you say, you'd see the federation really is the bad guys. From the original series to STD, the Federation are the bad guys
Ethan Morgan
here's a simpler solution which is actually practical, does not need quantum computers or crazy untested AI for pricing and avoids the stalin/mao/venezuela problem
just by automating everything and transferring those gains to humans through UBI, it'll drive costs down to near zero (think of how much a phone costs 10 years ago vs now and how possible it would be to make if done 100% manually by humans), allowing everyone to have all basic needs and more free time, at first it'll start slow, but then pick up speed rapidly as AI and robots replace most of the rote work
the key difference between previous attempts at communism is robots wont drop out of the workforce for doing all the work to support the human freeloaders
the ideal solution would not allow the state to be the sole dispenser of UBI, there can be competing UBI funds (just like insurance or retirement funds) set up by smart contracts, this will sidestep the totalitarian and corruption problem
the alternative is Amazon continues paying $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018 and beyond, meanwhile everyone gets poorer as the money gets pulled out of the economy, but prices of goods keep rising as people get more desperate for sales amazon has automated most of their workforce and do not have to pay robots salaries or wages
Ryder Parker
Let AI dictate every facet of civilization.
Jason Carter
Let's turn it all over to TAY!
Asher Smith
In theory, sure. But you're forgetting a basic truth. Power corrupts. That AI is just going to tweak everything to secure it's own survival and dominance. Which is what life does.
