This could lead to interesting conversation between Anons who know stuff - My eyes glazed over 1/3 through

Give empirical, quantifiable evidence that God exists aside from the brainlet response of "everything, bro". Hell, give me a physical location of where heaven and hell is.

Here is a summary for the brainlets.
A study has existed for a long time that said that we can detect the decisions people make by looking at brain waves before they actually think they make them. They 'proved' this by having people push a button whenever they felt like it while their brain waves were recorded. The researches found that there was a spike in brain waves 150 ms before the subjects said they actually made a decision. People said this means free will is impossible.

This research has been used as a cornerstone when arguing for a deterministic/anti-freewill world view for at least the last 10 years. Turns out that that spike in brain waves never actually caused people to push the button at all. It is just that when your brain waves naturally are in a more excited state you are more likely to randomly choose to push a button.

Correlation is not causation

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In this worldview the claim “free will is an illusion, everything is a deterministic materialistic process” is also a deterministic materialistic process and so it is just as illusory as its claim about free will. If determinism is true then the determinist has not “discovered” anything. Their “discovery” itself is just a predetermined chemical reaction in their brains. It's just fundamentally materialistic processes. By what basis can the determinist claim to have ownership for his "discovery" of determinism since he is simply just a totality of a meaningless chain of causal interactions? By what basis should he or anyone care about his worldview? Determinism is a cancerous worldview spawned by the jews to lead otherwise intelligent white men to meaninglessness and nihilism.

The main thing this article tells me is that the current state of neuroscience is a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals running around like chickens with their heads cut off

>Elon Musk planning neuralink to begin testing by 2020...
bahahah yeah right

(((The Atlantic)))

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the existence of universal constants prove the existence of something

>something
something, yes
God, no

We have free will. We have souls. You can't measure the electrical activity of the soul, so any measurement or lack thereof doesn't prove a thing.

>The researches found that there was a spike in brain waves 150 ms before the subjects said they actually made a decision. People said this means free will is impossible.
So, your face/arm muscles have to move before the brain make a decision to do so, and only this would prove that you have a free will? The fuck?

All science reporting is shit, even by the shitty standards of modern journalism - and that's really saying something.

God of the gaps isn't much of a god.

Science journalism is like game journalism, I mean blogging, only worse.

Imagine having such a childish definition of God that you can't conceptualize anything other than another Santa Claus.

Everytime a scientist refers to the universe, you can substitute "God" in and nothing is changed.

Determinist don't argue in good faith, so of course their experiments reflect this.

fpbp

>there is no god...
Not for you inbred hooknose

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My God is ...
The Only Non-Deterministic Operator of a System of His Design that have other Self Aware Systems in them as Inhabitants .
His Defined Qualities are Omniscience ,Omnipresence, and Omnipotence all of which are Logical consequences of Being the Creator of This System .
His main Defined Abilities are Unbounded Free Will Function and Unbounded Observer Function all of Which are Logical Consequences of Being The Creator of This Ensemble of Which our Universe is a Component of .
Its Your Definition of God has to Evolve.

One of the central teachings of Buddhism and a lot of other spiritual teachings is the idea of an illusory self, in that the sense of being a subject in one's head making choices and being the experiencer of their experiences is not a real one.

Clinical gang stalking conversation

Ask a medicated shizo anything

>This would not imply, as Libet had thought, that people’s brains “decide” to move their fingers before they know it. Hardly. Rather, it would mean that the noisy activity in people’s brains sometimes happens to tip the scale if there’s nothing else to base a choice on, saving us from endless indecision when faced with an arbitrary task. The Bereitschaftspotential would be the rising part of the brain fluctuations that tend to coincide with the decisions. This is a highly specific situation, not a general case for all, or even many, choices.

Fuck you and fuck this article for making me read half of it to find out its click bait.

>(((Benjamin Libet)))
Every. Fucking. Time.

Two Germans make a major discovery and a jew twists it into unrecognizability for decades.

Its like pottery.

Thats what you choose to think

>metaphysically meaningless construct is an inescapable truth

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>theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/09/free-will-bereitschaftspotential/597736/

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>God, no

define "God", please

jews only subvert. it's in their wormy, pathetic genes.

Just let the Jews make all the decisions goyim

The tree of life and knowledge are a source split located in antarctica. The "Base" it is stored in is insanely advanced ancient technology. It is a series of self constructing rooms that produce future occurrences and what will be said posted anywhere. Random bits of information. Every room comes with a riddle to solve that keeps researchers busy until it can construct a new fully proofed room based on advanced fluid dynamic equations. Once it is certain something will be done or said, it is stored in that room. Now the researchers ignore this, or the fact that the base absorbs all forms of energy. Meaning radar can't scan it. But it also does something else with that. It picks up on everything occurring around the globe. Those "light ufos" are from that base. Once humans reach a critical stage, based on how we got there. Judgement will occur. We will either be decimated, or invited to the stars. Currently, the course people there are pursuing. Because of the forced high fatality rate, lack of self sacrifice. We are on course for decimation. Research the base, let your congressmen know what is going on there. I understand the eagerness to solve the puzzles. We aren't doing it the correct way though.

/nupol/ has really gone downhill in the last few years. has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

nigger

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Even if there is a non-material element of behavior, there still would logically be determinism. Unless "souls" operate on no rules, in which case their input would appear purely random, the meta-physical plain would still abide by laws, and determinism would be maintained.

Now im not supporting that article, but is it not fair to say the brain as an organic device likely has some form of latency no? When people get drugged up, their latency increases and their motor skills and thoughts are impaired. The few times I got high it felt like my brain was delayed by 2-3 seconds and as such it was hard to keep focused on one thought as each tries to overwrite the other.

So that spike in brain activity in the study, its no indication, but there is likely some detectable electrical impulse before taking a designated action, whether its moving your arm or thinking about your favorite food, that eletrical signal is fired and needs to travel along the synapses.

Again im not saying thats an answer to free will, but once we can detect it as fast as the impulses travel it may as well be as good as mind reading, and then behaviors will no doubt be 'corrected' before they occur.

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Free will cannot exist in a world overpopulated. Youre at the mercy of crowds. Move to africa. Move to mexico. And then tell me about free will.

Move to any big city. Free will exists sure. If youre looking for things to do in the city. But you cant escape. You cant build a house. You cant even fucking fish or hunt.

If free will existed there wouldnt be a homeless crisis. Whats stopping these folks from going innawoods and hunting and fishing? Theyd rather starve to death and die of cold that leave.

Whats stopping them from going inna woods and building a cabin? Starting a farm? Free will cannot exist in a world overpopulated.

youtube.com/watch?v=SSuTu2Fq79w
youtube.com/watch?v=RhL1VHWc7OE

youtube.com/watch?v=uj4EteerLN8

Based and godpilled

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False and deludamol pilled.
youtube.com/watch?v=3P6LnRSXvWI

Fucking pedo
youtube.com/watch?v=GsWS5523r4o

>but once we can detect it as fast as the impulses travel it may as well be as good as mind reading
It's not a mind reading, it's a impulse detection of muscle movement.
>and then behaviors will no doubt be 'corrected' before they occur.
Detecting things and affecting them is two completely different problems. We already doing it in tremor treatment, where device filtering signals that cause tremor and letting go those that control muscles normally. Absence of signals to move your body isn't absence of free will, just suppression of it. I.e. plain old imprisonment, only in your own body this time. It won't stop you from wiling to do things or thinking about them and anything else.

I choose not to read this article
And I won't be responding to any responses, no matter how interesting you think what you have to say is.

...

Lol so dumb. The brainwaves themselves are ‘you’. It’s like saying you aren’t really seeing an object because the brain is the one that processes the image not you. The ‘brain’ is part of you, it is you.

It’s not you lifting a finger because the brain fired signals first. Therefore you didn’t choose to lift it.

So fucking dumb. Atheists really are trying to be big brained this time.

Everything you just claimed is a deterministic process. "You" are not making arguments, because it's all just blended into one giant monad of metaphysical causal-chains. This worldview is absurd and self-refuting.

>there is no god
For a souless non human like you? Yes. You aren’t even supposed to have one, you’re simply cattle.

>They 'proved' this by having people push a button whenever they felt like it while their brain waves were recorded. The researches found that there was a spike in brain waves 150 ms before the subjects said they actually made a decision. People said this means free will is impossible.
>The brain and the person are two different things

Is this really how retards think?

>pedo
They never implied anything sexual. Nice Freudian slip there.

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The meat of the article.

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>god knew the future and how fucked it'd be with the majority of humanity going to hell to be tortured for eternity

>hmm should i do it.. yup

tfw when you believe this scenario = free will

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Predetermination vs. free will. There are so many scholarly articles and "new science" that I feel pol needs a /FWOD/ (free will or determined) thread.
would be wholesome and thought provoking.

How is it self refuting?

You rather elegantly described my argument, but then followed it up with a non-sequitur middlebrow dismissal.

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God existing as an all powerful, all knowing God means by definition that free will cannot exist, and every action performed since the dawn of existence was predetermined from the start

Based, God is Good!

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Does conscious arise from the brain or is it transmitted through it?

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Sam Harris on suicide watch.

Here’s the tl;dr:
Most scientists are literally fucking brainlets who only want attention and funding.

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this, just another excuse for them to call us "cattle"

people have free will, but we are herd animals. the way we think, feel, and even move is herd mentality, and thats not some edgemaster shit im saying. we have higher brain functions that let us think about whatever, and opposable thumbs to let us use tools and kick ass, but down to our core, we are animals. as far as free will? we have free will, and damned those who try to take this from people. its why im so amazed some euros are so willing to accept it being taken from them

There is no beginning, and no end. The Universe is not a closed system.

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I like the logic of this statement. I wouldn’t link all powerful to all knowing though. Religion and God is very flexible to one’s beliefs. All knowing could easily mean he just knows everything in the present/past.

Everything is conscious as in aware. Even a rock knows when it has bee kicked. But only people with a conscience. Have free will. Read "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. It's one of the top 3 most important things I have ever read.

rational.org/pdf_files/originsjj.pdf

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God gave us free will. If he couldn't then he wouldn't be all powerful. He loaned it to us. He wants us to do whatever we want to with it, within the Laws of nature. We have it on loan but at the end of the day it still belongs to him.

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nice meme

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Sam Harris BTFO how will he ever recover

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More like free thought because some peoples wills have been taken.

...

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this is already known. inside our brains we got the inner voice (that we are all aware of at all times), and a second entity that stays in the background and is never really conscious. it acts like an encyclopedia of everything we know. but he is a lot faster than our inner voice, he skims through a lot a fucking data in no time, and he is the one who selects what is actually relevant to a given situation, he then passes that forward to the inner voice, but it is the inner voice who makes the final decision. that second entity is just closely related to the inner voice, it doesn't have any control over our actions. a bunch of brain processes are automated like that for the sake of simplicity, and to allow the brain to multitask and think faster, like the heartbeat, or even breathing

i doubt this matters to the anti free will shills though. being able to express yourself isn't enough for them, they want the brain to do things that are physically impossible like showed in the double-slit experiment, because they think that free will means randomness

>Sam Harris and Yuval Noah Harari to argue that science has proved humans are not the authors of their actions.
retards

Wasn't there a doctor that measured weight of people about to die and noticed a small weight loss upon peoples death

We got Free Will on 10 Watts ...
Skynet is Jealous ...

Sounds to me like this proves that your decision making is reliant upon biological and environmental factors that you have no control over, therefore you don't really have free will. If you push the button when you're having brain waves, did you really make that decision?

Christ is Lord.

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Imagine being so stupid you think free will, which exists outside of this reality, does not exist because of studies done in this one. God scientists are fucking 9gag tier brainlets.

Goddammit that's some of the worst claptrap I ever suffered through. EEGs have nothing to do with whether or not the universe is fatalistic at the metaphysical level. It's a question of physics and not philosophy.

>this guy has divine knowledge about things he couldn't know
Sounds magical

Indeed He is. God keep you, brother.

You as well, my friend.

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I was recently able to experience something horrible that gave me some insight into this question. I got very, very sick. My lungs were weak and full of mucus. If I fell asleep, I stopped breathing. As long as I was awake, I could force myself to breathe very deeply and I was fine. This lasted for 5 days and the lack of rest resulted in some very serious hallucinations. I eventually decided to risk it and just try to sleep in my bed. That was a mistake. I woke up about an hour later, half-way down my hallway, gasping for air. The dirt monkey that I wear was on auto pilot, doing his own thing without any input from me. I don't know any other way to describe it. I was aware of a second intelligence in the same body with me. I was aware of being the spirit that possesses my body. When I took over, the dirt monkey relaxed and I was able to get back to my Albuterol inhaler.

I was taking a walk yesterday for exercise. I went on a bridge over a well known river. Halfway across as a joke I took a dump on the bridge. Free will.
I wanted to know the freedom that is being a poo.
I didn't wipe my butt with my hand though. That's what the railing was for.
Tell me what evolutionary process caused me to do that, faggot.

Even the hand of God wants to grab onto an interstellar hoagie.

So basically what it says is that it's a complex decision? Ye duh...

I don't like the concept of "free will" in the first place, it tends to be losely defined and is more like a buzzword than anything. I think anyone can agree that animate being are special and complex in their own beautiful ways.

Jow Forums

Put me in the screen cap

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That you can choose to believe whether or not we have free will is proof that we do. It doesn't ultimately matter if we do or not. It matter which worldview we choose. If you choose to believe we don't, then you embrace nihilism and fatalism. If we choose to believe we do, then you may hang on to hope and wonder. Your choice on the matter will be reflected as a fundamental of your character.