Catholic/pol/

As they say, the Bible without proper instruction is just a subversive book. Good job being dense, user.

So why exactly do you pray to people who are not God?

We don't. All our prayers are to God.

Nothing. Why would you think there is something wrong with it?

Based thread. Keep posting. Fuck Jannies.

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We ask for others to join us and assist us in our prayers to God. We pray for those in need and help them with our prayers, and we ask the help of those who are willing to pray with us since more prayer is more heard. We ask for the prayers of those who are in Heaven, especially the Virgin Mary, because their prayers are worth so much more than ours, and they know much better how to pray and what to ask for, by virtue of their holiness and unceasing commitment to the praise and glory of God. It is much safer to ask Mary to send your prayer, in her grace and purity, than to send an unclean prayer from your corrupt and ignorant self.

"Sup Peter. I'm going through some hard times now and I have nobody else around. Can you pray for me please?"

Put janny it the scope.

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Feel free to improve upon it. This isn't my best work.

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>be Catholic
>be part of an organization led by literal homosexual lavender mafias, pedophiles, and a Satanic globalist Pope
yeah no thanks

Oh my god you just dismantled the entire church and eradicated the entire foundation for Christ's entire church and religion.

Could you please explain further so that others can be freed from this horrible bond? Not everyone is blessed with the intrinsic knowledge and awareness of the world that you are.

>I am silly
good one bro.
we all worship Jesus Christ no need to fight on an Indonesian cutlery forum
remember John 3:16 brothers

Quit copy pasting this bullshit.

Did a demon give me bipolar?

Shut up s0iboi.

Is this what it looks like when boomers and roasties try to use irony? You just posted cringe. I expected this from a leaf but not from an Aussie. For shame.

BASED

>Mary is God
Heretic

whats it like being an adult that believes in fairy tails? how does your 47th chromosome feel?

How about two?

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We ask Mary and the Saints to intercede for us, we don't pray TO them

That is not Catholic dogma, user.

btw you should post more links such as the Nicene Creed and a link to Saint John Chrysostom's eight homilies against the Jews to bolster apologetics

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Those trips

Nice semantic games. Why do you need "intercession" (praying) to begin with when you can just ask Jesus directly?

Christ is the perfect being, he follows all the commandments to the letter, as such, why not ask his mother to intercede for you, his mother whom he respects as the perfect son?

You're not answering the question. Why do you need intercession to begin with when you can just ask God directly?

Hard to respond to such wit, I'm just a humble man sincerely asking for guidance and freedom from my bondage to this evil organization.

Nicene Creed yes. as for the apolegetics... I wish for them to be saved. We MUST become BEST doctors. We must lead sinners (Jews and gays included) to the church to be cured. Jesus is the Doctor, the Church the hospital, and Holy Spirit the cure. We must bring the Good Doctor sick to be cured. Pic related

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Why ask for the prayers of friends and family, user? Why pray for others? If some prayers are more efficacious than others, why not request those? They all lead to Our Lord any way, but some petitions are more meritorious.

Christ on earth was a King crucified. But in Heaven He is a Triumphant King. You are not usually granted an audience with the King, but His court is quite vast. We deliver our prayers to our immediate moral superiors to pray for us, that's all. If Christ is King and giver of Eternal Life, then those people are all very much alive in the great court of Our Lord and they all work for the salvation of the faithful. This is a sign of obedience and docility, it's an acknowledgement of the better examples of the faith and our petitions will be delivered to Our Lord regardless. We don't believe in pantheonic gods, user, only in the people sanctified through His Grace.

what sect hates jews the most and wants to kill them?

The pestilence is ALL OVER. It is...sickly

in Minecraft of course

Question: how is faith important and useful in politics, if it can be seen as on either side of the spectrum?

Same reason I would ask my friend who is stronger than me to help me move furniture. The Saint's prayers are worth more than ours, and extra prayers are better. Prayer is not wish making, more prayers are worth more. Prayer from a holier source is worth more. Prayer through the Saints and through Mary shows humility. Venerating them and asking their intercession is confirmed by God through his miracles, and not accepting help that God offers you and expects you to take is pride akin to rejecting Christ because you believe you can 'ask the Father yourself', or rejecting God because "You can stand on your own two feet"

Can't really put it better than

Homosexuality is a natural part of life. You don't have to like it, it's just there. You really think an all powerful god would care where you stick your dick? I know only that God is too complex for Christfags and their jewish propaganda.

>Also dodging the question
Praying FOR others is not to same thing as praying TO different beings. How does Catholic theology justify intercession?

>You are not usually granted an audience with the King
This analogy is heresy. The Bible is clear that believers have a direct relationship with God.

>The Saint's prayers are worth more than ours, and extra prayers are better.
>more prayers are worth more
>Prayer from a holier source is worth more.
Where are these claims coming from and how are they justified? There's nothing in the Bible which states this and if you're taking it from Catholic theology let me see the sources.

>Natural part of life
>Largest supporters of homosexuality are Jews
>highest rate of diseases
>Historically known for pedophilia

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Pleasure is NOT happiness. We wish for people to be happy. but the ONLY way is through repenting and coming home to Christ

Nice trips OP,
Also, daily reminder that Catholicism attempts to suppress the true teachings of Christ and serves the Jews/ modern Pharisees

Obsession with sensual pleasure is a natural end to indulgence in beastly nature when all needs have been met and divine nature is not sought. All sexual immorality, from fornication to masturbation to homosexuality, creates a barrier between yourself and the spiritual world/God, and is bad for the salvation OF YOUR OWN soul. Sure, it should be no one else's business whether other's choose to move towards damnation instead of salvation, except that the vocation of the liberated in literally to admonish sinners and guide them, for their good and the good of all lost and damned souls.

>ITT: followers of a magical sandnigger on a stick bicker about details of their mythology

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>Praying FOR others is not to same thing as praying TO different beings.
Exactly. That's the point. As you ask your mother to pray for you, we ask the Blessed Mother to pray for us all.
>How does Catholic theology justify intercession?
What if you are an obstinate sinner and God doesn't give you the time of day to hear your prayers? But what if your pious mother praying for you grants you this grace? Is this intercession? How is it wrong?

>The Bible is clear that believers have a direct relationship with God.
Right, we too hold this position. But if you believe that God treats us all equally, you are ultimately denying His justice. And at the time of your demise, you will meet a just Judge.

interested to see the answer to this

>What if you are an obstinate sinner and God doesn't give you the time of day to hear your prayers?

that isn't how that works

jesus wants sinners to reach out and seek him

>What if you are an obstinate sinner and God doesn't give you the time of day to hear your prayers?
This is again heresy. God listens to everyone and is perfectly compassionate regardless of how much of a sinner the person is. If anything, it's the sinners asking for help who need the listening the most.

>But if you believe that God treats us all equally, you are ultimately denying His justice
This is a strawman. I'm not denying that there are consequences to rejecting God. The claim would be that God listens to us all equally, not that the treatment and consequences are the same.

Isn't even 1 false execution too many?

The only people executed were repeat offenders, Saint Joan of Arc aside because the Anglos rigged the trial deliberately.

Islam

>Assuming it is false
> assuming the evidence was not overwhelming nor enough too warrant execution

To be considered fir for execution You have to be ONE Hell of a fiend to be fit for execution. Still more fair and effective compared to Secular courts. In Spain. defendants were known to blasphemy JUST to have the Inquisition take over. Secular courts, at least in Spain, were REALLY bad

Um it isn't a claim so much as an observation of common sense?

Do you deny that the Saints performed miracles through will will and glory of God? Do you deny that a Holy man who is perfect in his prayers and virtue is more likely to be granted a miracle than a fool? Do you disagree with the sick and the poor being blessed by priests and holy men and being prayed upon by them, because they could ask for and receive the same grace themselves?

Those who are more Holy are by definition closer to God, more perfect in living out God's Holy Will, and more perfect in their prayers, and are so better able to channel the power of prayer to meet the petitioned for ends.

The Bible is a consistent story of this. The Bible is not a rule book or a book of quotes to guide your subjective opinion.

You can explore the theology by reading the Church Fathers and early Church writings. These aren't technically Catholic theology so much as Christian theology which is adopted by Catholics.

I'm sure that He does. We just don't believe that all prayers are equally heard. If you pray for death, would God grant such a thing? If you are a great Saint, aren't your prayers more readily heard? This is why we believe in penance and doing acts of contrition, if you have an honest heart and you're diligent in fighting sin, God will fill you up with graces.

>If anything, it's the sinners asking for help who need the listening the most.
That may very well be the case. But we don't quite understand it that way over here, some sinners may indeed be granted extraordinary grace but some may just be praying for the wrong things, and we believe that the prayers of some are more efficacious than others because they are more filled with grace. Because the Bible teach us there are the lesser and the greater in the Kingdom of God, we understand hierarchy and that being in a state of grace is not binary, it is in fact a scale.
>This is a strawman. I'm not denying that there are consequences to rejecting God.
I apologise, I didn't mean to misrepresent your views. It indeed isn't beyond the power of Our Lord to hear all of our prayers. We just hold the position that the Saints and the departed aren't just ethereal energies floating about in Heaven, they have consciences and they have will. And because they can pray for us, we can humbly seek their intercession with the Lord our God.

Friendly reminder to OP and others that you can't shave off time off the purgatory because it doesn't exist! Salvation has always been given to anyone willing freely by the grace of God through faith; if you're trusting your own prideful works to be saved, then you're not placing your full faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:6 KJV
> And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:5 KJV
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
>8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
>9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If works were required for salvation, then all the "believe and be saved" verses from the gospels and the NT would say "believe and work to be saved" including

John 3:16 KJV
> For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

True salvation is simple. All the hard work has already been done by Christ. All you need to do is lay aside your own pride and accept the gift of God by believing Jesus Christ did it all for you.

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>it's common sense
Not an argument and you still have no sources (Catholic, Biblical, or otherwise) to justify your claims. And yes you are making truth claims with regards to prayers:
>The Saint's prayers are worth more than ours, and extra prayers are better.
>more prayers are worth more
>Prayer from a holier source is worth more.

>because they can pray for us, we can humbly seek their intercession with the Lord our God.
My question is why is this even necessary? Why is praying to God not enough? I know you guys are giving me your personal justifications for it but I'm looking for a more authoritative treatment on the matter. Where in the Catholic faith does it say any of this? Which writings talk about intercession?

You known, you dropping pasta doesn't make for good conversations.
>Purgatory
Listen to this, you'll find it interesting.
youtube.com/watch?v=IwIn1MYg_Y4

Catholic Practices vs Actual Scripture

1. Mary Worship (muh veneration) & statues.
Exodus 20:4-5 KJV (1st/2nd of the 10 commandments removed by the catholic church)
>4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
>5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

2. Papacy
1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
> For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

3. Saying father to priests or the pope(means father)
Matthew 23:9 KJV
> And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

4. Calling Mary Mother of God
Matthew 12:48-50 KJV
>48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
>49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
>50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

5. Calling Mary queen of heaven vs how God feels about it.
Jeremiah 7:17-20
>17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
>18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
>19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
>20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

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6. Rosary - hail mary repeated 50 times
Matthew 6:7-8 KJV
>7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
>8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

7. Eucharist & Transubstantiation
Leviticus 17:10-12 KJV
>10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
>11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
>12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

8. Purgatory
>Nothing in the scriptures

9. Work Salvation
Romans 4:5 KJV
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith counted for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
>8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
>9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10. Saint worship (muh veneration)
Acts 10:25-26 KJV
>25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
>26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

11. Priest Celibacy
1 Timothy 3:1,12
>2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
>12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

What do Catholics truly believe? What the bible actually says or their traditions of the church? Which of the two has more authority?

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>My question is why is this even necessary?
It's not. Nowhere is it taught that it's necessary for salvation, user. We just keep these devotions because they bring us closer to God, regardless of what you might think.
>I know you guys are giving me your personal justifications for it but I'm looking for a more authoritative treatment on the matter.
These are not personal justifications. You can read a catechism and find it out for yourself, you have two of them linked in the OP.
See: catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/PiusX/pcreed09.htm

Figured this article describes the protestant faith (inb4 Fox New, Not a lot of sites that dO NOT risk giving me a computer virus

foxnews.com/us/church-leaders-charged-forced-labor-conspiracy-homeless

Why would I pray to a jewish god?
Please, no christian has ever given me an answer to this question

What are you asking for a source for? I'm giving you self-consistent statements that are correct in reality. The miracles attributed to holy men both within the Bible and in the history following it, and the absence of miracles in the absence of holiness or intercession, serves as my proof.

Sources: the Bible, any documented story of Saints providing miracles. Any statement attirubting miracles to the intercessions of the Saints.

Further supported by Marian apparitions, e.g. at Fatima.

Further supported by ongoing intercession as provided by Saints by the likes of St Charbel in Lebanon.

We might argue that the devil is providing miracles to distract from God, but the fruits of all these intercessions is the praise and glory of God, and brings people to Him through Christ. The Saints in question who are providing the intercession lived and died pointing to God, and are proven to be in Heaven and be continuing this mission through this.

If you continue to deny in the face of such clear proof without providing valid counter-statements then you will be turning your back on God and his True Works, and damning yourself.

:)

But protties are basically catholic lites especially now a lot of catholic doctrines have crept in. They even have dyke pastors now with pride flags out the church

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>Catholic doctrines crept in

Oh... and which would those be?

I'm going to take a break from the internet for a few minutes, so have a picture of cute doggo girl.

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Baptists are protestants. There is no indication that their theology even existed in the 1st century. Most of what they preach is very much contrary to the orthodox understanding that was ubiquitous until the XVI century.

Ah so you adopted secularism. Would expect nothing less from protestantism.

>Inb4 homosexual pedo
1st Gross and wicked 2nd Mortal sin to fornicate 3rd Heresy

Half of the protties pretend not to be protties. Take "non-denominationals" for instance.

>See: catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/PiusX/pcreed09.htm

All I see with respect to intercession there is this statement
>the Saints pray to God both for us and for the souls in purgatory; while we on our part give honor and glory to the Saints, and are able to relieve the suffering souls in purgatory by applying on their behalf indulgences and other good works.

Where does it say that praying TO these saints for intecession brings us closer to God? Show me specifically where, don't just tell me to read the whole catechism.

>self-consistent statements that are correct in reality.
This is another way to say "it's common sense". Your statements of "proof" are dubious and even if they are to be taken as good arguments for intercession I'm looking for a Catholic authority that justifies these claims to begin with. Where in Catholic dogma, theology, the Bible, anywhere does it argue for intercession being useful or necessary?

Any explanation for this?

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Is this a Christian symbol as well?

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Please, I have no dishonest intentions. Why should I or anyone elso who is not semitic follow a semitic deity?

else

didn’t a saint get crucified upside down, yeah I get that people do an upside down cross for an inversion of christ but it could also be a saint

whoooo shit

It was Peter.

>Where does it say that praying TO these saints for intecession brings us closer to God? Show me specifically where, don't just tell me to read the whole catechism.
When you pray the Rosary, you're mediating on the life of Christ. Christ is front and centre in all Catholic devotions, user. We fill our minds with Christ, we fill our hearts with Christ. The great examples of the Saints inspires sanctity in us so that we can fight sin more diligently and little by little become more worthy of His glory.

It's a Petrine Cross. What about it?

Yes. That's the Body of Christ in which He is truly present.

Not that you will actually bother considering or responding but just misdirect again, but here you go, plenty of biblical basis and reaffirmation by those who were much holier and more knowledgable about these matters than you are:
openbible.info/topics/intercession_of_saints
web.archive.org/web/20090619002648/http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp

From Catechism: " The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."

What do other Americans think of these guys? Subverted or no?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

Reread the section you just quoted. You're not answering my question. I'm not looking for personal opinion I'm looking for authoritative justification. You don't actually know, do you?

>From Catechism: " The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."
Your claims were with regards to prayer, user. Even if one accepts that saints do intercede for us, this doesn't address the necessity or the useful of PRAYING TO them. So I will ask once again:

Where in Catholic doctrine, exactly, does it say that it is useful to pray to saints for intercession?

>you will just misdirect again
Nice projection btw.

John Paul II was the antichrist and not a valid pope
youtu.be/mklekBxPiGk
Francis isn't a pope and the Vatican 2 sect isn't Catholic.
youtu.be/a3AnX_GBWJw
You are a Protestant.
You can't as a noncatholic use scriptures against Catholics.
Without being Catholic you have no reason to believe the bible is the word of God.
Catholics wrote the Bible and you claim Catholics are wrong about so much.
You have zero reasons why the bible is the word of God if you believe the church that wrote it is wrong.

PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!
>PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!
PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!
>PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!
PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!
>PRAISE BE TO THE HOLY CHRIST!

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Beasty trips op

Statue of "The Resurrection in Vatican
youtu.be/PcR85Ojhx6M

10 Reasons why the Catholic Church is satanic
youtu.be/5g4BZCNCD1g

Catholic Hocus Pocus Highlights
youtu.be/tSHJdoZd-zE

Catholic Hocus Pocus Full sermon
youtu.be/KMIzckC7ehI

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>enters Catholic/pol/
>uses crusader flag
>is not even Christian

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I'm not sure why you're being so argumentative. I have told you what the prayer practices of Catholics are and what are we supposed to draw from the lives of the Saints. This is not "personal opinion". This is Catholic life.

I have said to you in no uncertain terms: you will not find one single catechism that teaches you that you need the Saints for salvation. This doesn't mean that it is illicit to ask for their prayers or that doing so doesn't beget grace.