Neoreaction is great at identifying how the current system actually works, but what we're left with is am extremely bleak and hopeless view of the future. Is there a viable solution to the cathedral question? Moldbug and Nick Land only have pessimism and weak suggestions. They continue to gain power and shut us down, and while I agree that leftism is entropy and will eventually destroy itself, history shows that civilizational falls are centuries-long processes.
And who's to say that if we ever replaced the system with something more favorable to us, our elite wouldnt turn into insufferable leftists because that's what aristocrats just tend to do.
The answer you seek is found in Evola's Ride the Tiger, and also Christianity
Jason Nguyen
I honestly feel a huge amount of domestic issues would resolve themselves if you deported all the illegal aliens, limited immigration to around 100,000 a year, and maintained firm control of our borders. Unfortunately Trump didn't do shit and even considered amnesty for the Dreamers.
>housing Solved >cost of living Solved >stagnant wages solved >lack of jobs solved >lack of employer funded career training solved >drug problems solved >growth of welfare programs solved >terrorism problem solved
Leo Edwards
Assuming that technocratic, globalist, post-national capitalism eventually achieves uncontested hegemony, would it still require the moral justification of the cathedral? Might we not get to the point that "market meritocracy" is self-justifying and we don't need the cathedral to "trick" people into buying into it? At this point something like Patchwork could begin to emerge; without the moral hysteria of muh Nazi racist fascist etc. etc. (because such groups' ability to take control of the whole system has been effectively neutered), would the system really care if a private investor bought a patch of land out in Montana and declared it a white ethnostate? As long as it wasn't perceived to be challenging or undermining the market's hegemony
Justin Hill
This already happens, and you have kike lawyers and organizations like the the SPLC which come along and hammer these places using the cathedral's "free market" legal framework.
Henry Butler
Well maybe if more people did they'd quit setting themselves up as easy targets to vindicate the left's seizures of power over everything
Yeah and how do you accomplish that? Deporting all illegals has been a popular stance for as long as pollsters have asked the question yet no politician will seriously take it up as an issue. The government is unwilling to do it and their peripheries (media, universities, etc) are all vocally opposed to it. What the majority thinks literally does not matter.
We start wars every few years just to harass governments that arent liberal democracies under our sphere of influence. A white ethno state on American soil would never ever be allowed to exist
Charles Cox
Yes, because the cathedral is still alive and well. The system is still in the process of dismantling nation-states barriers to universal market integration. Once that's been achieved, and the system no longer derives utility from using the cathedral as a moral bludgeon to achieve its integrationist goals, the moral force of the cathedral would (theoretically) atrophy, to be replaced by market meritocracy being self-justifying and taking the place of the cathedral's universalist egalitarian / humanist fanaticism. In such a scenario, the establishment of a (limited, not threatening to the global market order's hegemony) white ethnostate would be regarded with the indifferent judgment that if it can survive in the market, then so be it
Zachary Bell
the final part of Gentle Introduction is all about building the Antiversity, baby. it's already being built.
Josiah Evans
>civilizational falls are centuries-long processes.
How many centuries into the fall do you think we are?
Anyways, we all chafe at inaction, which makes neoreation frustrating. What a lot of people seem to get out of it is what you basically said: hold on to your butts because it's going to get way worse. Impatience and desire for direct action surely, albeit indirectly, contributed to the rise of the alt-right. Unfortunately, the alternative right was worse, from a solutions standpoint, because their main figures were incompetent like Spencer, or degenerate like Enoch. Or both, like Heimbach. The alt right also operated on the underpants gnomes theory of politics: Step 1. Tell everyone about the jews Step 2. Step 3. Profit.
Which of course is no solution at all. The hyper focus on the awful and subversive behavior of jews opened the alt right to infighting, sabotage and purity spirals, combined with lackluster figureheads led ultimately to nowhere. So what now?
The neoreactionary formula "become worthy, accept power, rule" may shed some light on how to get from point a to point b. What does worthy mean?
Eli Smith
Our intent in doing so, though, is to integrate them into our global market order; actually caring about muh freedumbs is mostly a smokescreen for business interests
Kayden Price
I don't think Moldbug even believe's something like that is possible. You can't topple the columns and expect the structure to stand.
Current trends will continue, and the status quo will reign until the system is shocked somehow. The status quo never willingly decides to transform itself, or tries something different, of experiments with something new out of nowhere and for no reason. That's the key to the cyclical nature of history.
Michael Green
Peak libertardianism
Chase Carter
isnt nick land praised by leftists who label themselves as "accelerationists"?
Easton Ortiz
(((The cathedral)))
Lincoln Gray
Well what's your impression of how he thinks Patchwork could become a reality?
what a mess.. invariably so. pls stick to programming, csaspies.
Dylan Myers
DESU, I haven't read him in awhile, and I mostly read blogs and things that claimed to be derived from his thought.
I recall patchwork becoming a reality through shocks or general collapse due the fragility and the nearsightedness of globalist projects. If youtravel the US, you see that it really is already a patchwork nation, but their is a lot of centralization going on as well.
Robert Moore
shut the fuck up you ugly dumb kike
your shit is weak and annoying
fuck your (((synagogue)))
Daniel Ortiz
Stfu I do. His analysis on the cathedral is well thought-out. Anyone with a brain left on pol should read unqualified reservations.
Connor Torres
Bump
Leo Bailey
YOU WILL EAT THE MOLDBUGS
Eli Russell
No I don't want any Moldbug burgers!
Josiah Hernandez
NRX is dead, bub.
Brody Ortiz
lol shut up kike you’re a total bitch
why can’t you talk about your synagogue
you’ve never been into a cathedral like me
Landon Russell
>well-thought out
word salad does not make one intelligent. echo chamber cults full of tainted jew blooded half wits worshipping their master blog jew man is a form of idolatry.
i legit hope you die
Sebastian Campbell
Shut up mutt
Hudson Myers
It's yet another redneck circlejerking completely missing the point. This is inevitable given most of you can't understand this from the jewish POV of narratives, cults, manipulation and generalized scamming. It's too abstract.
Isaac Thomas
>moldbug >redneck
Angel Cox
I feel like I've seen you in nrx threads before
Kayden Rodriguez
great argument. i used to like moldbug but now i've read that his blood is impure this is sufficient reason to discount his entire corpus.
Hunter Cook
Essentially you need support from an established power center in order to effect change. "Grassroots", "Democratic" change is the great lie of the modern era. Every effective social movement had well-heeled patrons pushing its agenda and funding it. See: Civil Rights, the Sexual Revolution, et al ad infinitum.
This is why Moldbug spilled so much e-ink trying to appeal the the essentially elitist nature of educated progressives. He wanted them to realize they were essentially absolutists who did not really like democracy all that much and in their honest appraisal of their actual position, come over to his side.
People should not be allowed on Jow Forums until they have read UR, desu.
>deported all the illegal aliens This solution is absolutely precluded by democracy. Very, very important centers of power have a lot to gain by having massive amounts of spics diluting white populations and providing captive, cheap labor. Good luck on that buddy boy.
Moldbug is completely right, we need a neofeudalistic/capitalist monarchist state. The ultimate private government, and because a lord gets his power from his land, he will have to increase the strength of it.
>civilizational falls are centuries-long processes. I'm pretty sure Tainter demonstrates that collapses are relatively rapid. The question is, how long until the collapse and how much further than innovation and technology artificially sustain us and how much harder will be the coming collapse because of that.
Shut up, retard. Everyone knows who he is. He's very influential even though he remains lowkey and doesn't whore himself out like an e-celeb. These days he makes good threads on Twitter. Here's a recent one: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1167485529040007168.html
Mencius Moldbugman isn't actually Moldbug... is it?
Kayden Roberts
Why wouldn't it be? Regardless, it's still a Twitter account well worth checking out.
Oliver Taylor
I think most people here already have the intuition of what he lays out explicitly. He does a good job explaining it. He writes like a programmer.
Hunter Foster
Yeah I follow him already. Good account. I was under the impression that Moldbug dropped under the radar and stuck to nerd tech shit.
Jonathan Peterson
>step 1: tell everyone about the jews >step 2: >step 3: profit
This sort of thing suffers from the same disease modern leftism suffers from: it's impossible to tell the difference between the genuine and the parody. Is our own side so blinded by their rage against Jews that they cant leave ordinary conversations alone without frothing at the mouth, or do Leftists know they can derail us by screeching about Jews? Is it both? I think so, but having been around alt right types irl and having heard "let me tell you about the jews" six million times, I've started to think that the unfettered rage inhibits us more than it helps us.
Anthony Young
wrong. a bunch of white house advisers (now already fired) were trying to get everybody to read him in the 1st year of the admin. fucking people at the Claremont Institute read him.
Brody Jones
>These days he makes good threads on Twitter. that isn't him. he is not on social media to anyone's knowledge. if he is he's lurking or larping as somebody else
Brody Sanders
>monarch You of all nations should know that when you have a king, he uses its people to fight wars for amusement, or to increase gain. Or keep up with his royal relatives.
Chase Powell
Have you really talked to them IRL because the ones doing the actual legwork (like at Arktos for example) are far more nuanced than that. Chatting on a Peruvian alpaca husbandry discussion forum will fuck up your perception of reality because only a handful of the people here are genuine. Others are shitposters, shills or dolts who shouldn't be posting.
Jaxon Davis
>Wars for amusement Kek, for laughs? Well that never happened.
>To increase gain Now I will describe the benefits of a monarch. You see, a monarch and his dynasty gets his power from his Kingdom, thus he will need to strengthen it to remain powerful, and since the monarch relies on tradition to remain legitimate, they must keep tradition. The problem with the British monarchy is that the monarch has little to NO POWER. King Charles I was beaten by parliament and Britain moved towards constitional monarchy, and then in 1911, the lords veto was removed, ruining the last traditional power in Britain. We were not sold out by our monarchy’s, but by the parliamentarians.
Evan Adams
> you will never read another new xenosystems post
Neoreaction is focused on how we got here and the nature of power and government. The alt-right is just white nationalism,
Dylan Perez
stay mad brainlet
Jason Smith
Broader. The neoreactionary framework encompassed techno-futurist ancaps, theocratic absolute monarchists, and ethno-nationalists. So the alt-right is kinda just one strand plucked from the full set. Also Moldbug was also big on formalism - the idea that the de facto power should also be the de jure power - which is he sort of constitutionalist theory stuff that the alt-right doesn't much care about.
Neoreaction isn't focused on solutions other than saying the current order is bad and needs to be replaced. The real focus of neoreaction is an understanding of history and our current cultural direction.
Daniel Evans
so is it just defunct and everyone lost interest, or did it fail in some big, hilarious way like the Alt-Right did?
Brayden Cooper
It was overtaken by the alt-right because it's easier to understand for brainlets.
Julian Morales
It unironically seems like an airtight case for the correctness of the whig view of history. Everything moldbug and land wrote about makes the case that encroaching leftism and the disaster it will bring is completely inevitable. The terms "unprincipled exceptions" and "applied christianity" in particular are so blackpilling and just makes me cringe when I hear people on the right talking about how if we rediscovered christ all our problems would work themselves out.
I think the alt right is also more optimistic than neorx, like if we just make white people realize how much the left hates them they'll wake up and fight for their own best interests. The problem is that whites are as addicted to pleasure as anyone else, and poor whites are becoming the broken, dysfunctional mess that the black community descended into in the 70s and 80s. They held out a lot longer than blacks did, but if you dont see that they're becoming just as bad then you're blinded by Jow Forums's optimism and a lack of contact with the outside world
Aaron Rivera
alt right was just one particular flavour of counter-enlightenment anti-cathedral effort
Justin Gray
all these people saying moldbug had no solutions really need to read the final gentle introduction piece about the antiversity, sure he doesn't go into much detail but he lays out pretty much exactly what ought to happen
Josiah Howard
what is the cathedral?
Austin Evans
One of the main differences is the alt-right believes in success through civil war while NRX doesn't.
NRX thinks you have to create parallel institutions and try to change the system as it collapses offering something better.
I don't entirely agree with this but just pointing it out since I was just talking about solutions.
Asher Kelly
It was a local TRS group. I got tired and left because they just wanted to drink and tell me about the jews. It got tiresome.
