Looks like the regular ETM OP isn't on tonight, so here's a slightly late thread dedicated to his absence:
Welcome to the Earth To Mars General. The true future of the European is to be out there amongst the stars, so how are we going to achieve that future?
This thread is dedicated to the discussion of creating a European Colony on Mars, not by direct funding, but through the commercial emigration scheme that will eventually come into play.
At the moment /etm/ is normally posted once a week every saturday around 10pm UK-time and is a place on Jow Forums to speak about all things space related. Please try to ignore the flat-earth fags.
>Recommended Reading The Case For Mars, Robert Zubrin. The High Frontier by Gerard O'Neill. Colonies in Space, by T. A. Heppenheimer. Rocket Propulsion Elements, Sutton. Aerothermodynamics of Gas Turbine and Rocket Propulsion, Gordon Coates. Space Mission Engineering, the new SMAD, Wiley, ed. Fundamentals of Astrodynamics, Bates, etc. International Reference Guide to Space Launch Systems, Steve Isakowitz. Mining the Sky, John Lewis. Rain of Iron and Ice, John Lewis. We Seven: By the Astronauts Themselves. Voices from the Moon, Andrew Chaikin. The Millennial Project, Marshall Savage. Modern Engineering for Design of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines, David H. Huang. Mars trilogy, Kim Robinson The Martian Way, Isaac Asimov Foundation Trilogy, Isaac Asimov The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, Heinlein
Even though I think it'd be great for the USA to be the first to Mars, it'll likely be a collaboration between the USA, EU, and probably Russia desu Or just USA solo.
Hunter Ross
Waste of time to visit this dead rock and catch cancer. Better not bother with it and focus on something else. Like faster internet for everyone.
depends, SpaceX's Starship development is coming along very quickly, if they choose to they could do it independently instead of waiting for NASA to crew rate them the same way they're crew-rating dragon 2, which is always a slow bureaucratic mess
Just an update on SpaceX Starship development, the 20km suborbital 'hop' will be very soon. Really hoping it goes well. They're also starting on the Superheavy booster, that'll be interesting. The first crewed Dragon 2 flight to the ISS will also be sometime in mid-november
I don't see the mission to mars until ~2030 at the very earliest. The USA will be back around and on the moon by ~2024. According to the plan the Deep Space Gateway still needs to be built.
The Gateway is completely unnecessary, it's an 80's idea for 80's hardware, aka the SLS. Orbital refueling is far simpler, and less expensive than building lunar infrastructure
Evan Cox
>226568465 >226568705 the two extremes here to derail the thread
Lincoln Sanders
The only thing that gets me really excited is when a fucking epic rocket enters the mars atmosphere. Fuck I get goosebumps thinking about it.
Adam Davis
look at what im posting, you really think we are not in space already? lmao
Henry Jenkins
Same here, and the implications for the future space industry too. It'll be one of the biggest (or THE biggest) industry on Earth soon. I agree, but NASA likes to follow the plans they have. I do like how Trump said if NASA can't get their shit together they'll use private tech/rockets. Say what you want about Trump, but on space he's spot on.
Brody Reed
original OP of /etm/ here. last week jannie 404d three threads. i thought it would be a good idea to stay quiet for maybe a couple weeks.
so far, jannie hasn't taken this down though. so that's a good sign.
friendly reminder: /ETM/ is political, as is all discussion regarding space exploration and colonisation. on top of that, /etm/ has been stickied twice (pic related), so until jannie can give a decent reason as to why /etm/ should not be posted on Jow Forums, i'll keep making it.
maybe not as regularly over the next couple weeks, but for everyone who is paying attention, you know I post here between 8pm and 10pm every saturday.
As cool as NASA are, they're crippled by both stupid congress and boomer OldSpace companies like Lockheed, Boeing etc who use it as a state jobs program, private enterprise has proven to be far more efficient where they have to make a working product or go bust
Probably still needs to be designed and has to go through bureaucratic hoops. That's why companies like SpaceX evolve that fast. They can do whatever the fuck they want. If they think something is cool, they just do it. That is why government projects are doomed to fail (and this lunar gateway as well), it always involves politics, everybody needs to get their fair share. Nobody does it because they "can" or really want to innovate.
Evening! no problem, i've missed them myself for the last month or two, been busy with personal stuff, managed to get into college for electrical installation diploma which starts monday actually, hope to work on solar in the future
That was really odd last week. Glad you could make it. Yea that's one of NASA's biggest problems is the bureaucracy. They moved into observational astronomy, astrophysics, and cosmology for a few decades which I think is great but I'm glad Trump reoriented NASA towards manned exploration. And yea the private companies are thriving right now which is a great thing and just. Bullshit
Nicholas Reyes
Explain how tides work then.
Matthew Anderson
yeah, or fuse boxes and wiring in housing. Solar specifically is the endgame though, Mars and the moon colonies will definitely need installation and maintenance engineers. The more people arrive, the more panels we'll need, not to mention a booming future industry on earth too
NASA (and JPL) should have sticked with providing the launch infrastructure and rocket development etc imho. Let the universities to their thing, and design the instruments. Would be more efficient imho, these large projects are almost always a big shitshow.
Jordan Rivera
Basically yes. I see the first non-military post office opening in about 30yrs would be my guess. Moving expenses would be comped, just in time to retire and never see another fucking human for as long as i live.
Jackson Gray
>Pedovores and their legacy and social media protectors will be delivered to justice
Hubble is fucking amazing though, but I see your point. They still provide all the launch infrastructure for spacex except the landing pad in the ocean I think.
Isaac Butler
That particular German is a regular in /ETM/ and any space exploration threads and he always shits on the idea with no reasonable arguments.
Nicholas Wright
There's a leaf in Atlantis/Antediluvian threads that does something similar, except spams 50+ posts.
Michael Scott
actually sounds comfy desu, there's a whole planet to retire on in solitude kek
I mean, look at the James Webb Telescope. Jesus fucking Christ that thing is expensive. Why? Because they have to change contractors because of politics. If they would have tasked the universities with designing the instruments, and let them take care of that the project would have been finished 5 years ago. With launch infrastructure I also meant the actual launchers (rocket development), my bad sorry. But indeed, Hubble was (is) pretty amazing. You have to check "adaptive optics" and beam combiners for ground-based telescopes. That shit is really interesting imho (if you are into that).
The JWST will be incredible for observational astrophysics and cosmology though because it'll be able to see farther (and therefore deeper into the past) than any other telescope. It's just taking so fucking looooonnnnggggggg. It's ridiculous actually. Its planned LAUNCH was before 2010, and they've pushed it back a few times and I think it's set for 2021. And the adaptive optics is cool, it's how they were able to resolve the center of the milky way iirc
Can imagine the view, enjoying a few beers next to a river, looking upwards, dreaming of things to come. Would be unreal I think. The born to early / born to late meme is real.
JWST will indeed be amazing. Cannot imagine the stuff we will be seeing. Personally think the gravitational lensing use-cases will be super interesting, would give us more insight into some cosmological parameters. From that perspective, I'm more interested in LSST lsst.org/ -> for this you have to imagine that it will be able to resolve the (almost) complete night sky in 1 observation night. For the study of population parameters this still will be ideal. Then we can build up a distribution on how particular structures are in general (e.g., the masses of the gravitational lenses, dark matter substructures etc).
> And the adaptive optics is cool, it's how they were able to resolve the center of the milky way No that's something different, it has to do "beam combining". But instead of doing it with a vacuum tunnel, you let a computer integrate the data from posts spread across the Earth. That's why they were able to resolve it.
Working my but off to make it happen ASAP. But we need a ton of money for R&D. Especially over here in Europe (it is sick how much money US universities have, it's nice for the researchers though). The only universities in Europe which really have a lot of money are the Swiss ones.
Keck, which this specific study used, did have adaptive optics. Not sure if it was "beam combining" but I know they used the laser as a 'guide star' for the adaptive optics. skyandtelescope.com/sky-and-telescope-magazine/beyond-the-printed-page/adaptive-optics-before-and-after/ Oh wow, actually hadn't thought about using it for observing gravitational lensing, that's a good fucking thought. It'd still show up too in the infrared but will look wild and possibly clearer than optical. >500 petabyte set of images and data products DAMN. Not very familiar with the LSST but going to check out info about it.
Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about the black hole in M83. My bad, indeed you are right. Because they point the laser, they create an artificial star in the upper atmosphere, which they can track to correct for imperfections in the motoring system. Additionally, because you are shining a huge fucking laser into the sky, you can actually measure the disturbances in the air column above you, which you can correct for by changing the form of your collection mirror (hence the adaptive optics).
> Not very familiar with the LSST but going to check out info about it. LSST is going to be wild. Butload of papers are getting pushed out just dealing with the speed of "approximate inference" of the parameters of something they are interested in + actually finding them. You can actually download the complete LSST simulation chain to test your algorithms.
These slides explain the "combining" pretty well (check slide 9+). It shows it for radio astronomy, but the same works in the optical wavelengths. Engineering is a bit more complicated because you actually need to build a vacuum tunnel to push to combine the light coming from different telescopes.
Andrew Mitchell
Whites won’t make it to Mars without help from Asians. I’ve been to tours at SpaceX and 30% of the engineers there are Asian.
No Eurofag country is producing a manned spacecraft. They’re gonna rely on the fats.
Not even Lockheed Martin/Boeing have tested the SLS.
Chinks already have built their rocket that will take them to the moon. Launch a few of them, and you can create the proposed Mars Direct Mission.
Meanwhile half of the Euros in this comment section think the Earth is fucking flat. Nearly half of the Americans reading this think the earth is 6,500 years old.
You guys are gonna get beaten by the Chinks.
I’m an actual aerospace engineer. Feel free to ask me any questions.
