A Value Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It is a fair tax and it makes it much harder for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
Additionally, we currently spend over 1 trillion dollars on health care, incarceration, homelessness services and the like. We would save $100 – 200+ billion as people would be able to take better care of themselves and avoid the emergency room, jail, and the street and would generally be more functional. The Freedom Dividend would pay for itself by helping people avoid our institutions, which is when our costs shoot up. Some studies have shown that $1 to a poor parent will result in as much as $7 in cost-savings and economic growth.
Our economy is now incredibly vast at $19 trillion, up $4 trillion in the last 10 years alone. A VAT at half the European level would generate $800 billion in new revenue A VAT will become more and more important as technology improves because you cannot collect income tax from robots or software.
Also, Putting money into the hands of American consumers would grow the economy. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy will grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $800 – 900 billion in new revenue from economic growth.
In our plan, each adult would receive only $12,000 a year. This is barely enough to live on in many places and certainly not enough to afford much in the way of experiences or advancement. To get ahead meaningfully, people will still need to get out there and work.
Thomas Brown
Just lower my tax by $1000, does the same shit AND I don't have to pay for extra vat tax
Liam Lee
>Wouldn’t it cause employers to pay less?
Employers are already paying their employees less for doing more. Corporate productivity is up 72 percent since 1973, but American wages are up by only 9 percent. UBI would put power into the hands of the workers—with consistent, unconditional cash to cover their expenses. Americans will be able to be more selective about the working conditions they’re willing to accept.
With UBI, people may afford to take jobs that they naturally want to do – like being a teacher, or coach, or artist – even though it might pay a little bit less. Employers will also have to pay more to people who take undesirable jobs because workers won’t be forced to take jobs for financial reasons
And who pays the VAT taxes? Why, you do with higher prices on everything. And not JUST the tax itself, but the massive tax codes, bureaucracy, software, and compliance infrastructure that goes with it! Isn’t that exciting? We can add insane new layers to both the tax code and the bureaucracies at the IRS and Treasury!
Matthew Barnes
>This is barely enough to live on in many places and certainly not enough to afford much in the way of experiences or advancement.
Noah Thompson
People would still have to work, but now they can be more decisive about what jobs they choose.
Luke Rodriguez
That yang gang no neet life foor you
Christian Richardson
$1000 is enough for survival if you're a minimalist, a job would still be needed for luxuries. I just don't believe anyone should have to starve because they can't find a job.
Leo Lopez
It would still defeat wage slavery, she was right. You will still have to work, but your not living paycheck to paycheck to survive. It will give people a safety net, and at the same time people would still be incentivized to work because it’s barely enough to live on.
Jaxon Smith
not when robots take your job and you cant get a new one because they took all the entry level ones for everything else too
Where is the fucking money coming from, faggot? Do you think Bezos is going to pay for it out of his cut? That isn’t how it works.
Brody Brown
Wtf is a shareblue
Adrian Wilson
> Ill be pissed if robot took over and can't get to work at a factory as well
Camden Gutierrez
I spent the entire thread saying where it’s coming from. If you still don’t understand, look it up or something idk.
Noah Adams
The middle class will pay for it. The rich will find loophole or straight up lobby the government.
Ryder Barnes
>WHY DO WE EVEN NEED UBI
Since 2000, technology has replaced the jobs of four million American manufacturing workers and decimated communities throughout the Midwest. With new developments in technology, experts are predicting that one out of three Americans will lose their jobs to new technology in the next twelve years.
Truck driving alone is the most common job in 29 states with 3.5 million drivers – 94 percent of them male – and an additional 12 million workers supporting them in truck stops and motels across the country. What happens when the trucks start to drive themselves?
We are experiencing the greatest economic and technological shift in human history, and our institutions can’t keep up. Without the Freedom Dividend, we will see opportunities shrink as more and more work gets performed by software, AI, and robots. Markets don’t work well when people don’t have any money to spend. The Freedom Dividend is a vital step to helping society transform through the greatest automation wave in human history
Eli Campbell
Yang is the Kaczynskyist vote and
I CAN'T WAIT FOR YANG TO CRASH THE GLOBO-HOMO INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY MACHINE WITH NO SURVIVORS.
Kayden Williams
Study the Gypsy Question of Communist Europe to understand how hard and fast it will fail
Colton Johnson
Then roll over and let the rich kick you while your down.
Luis Hughes
No, you haven’t. You’re a lying cunt trying to imply that the businesses will pay it when everyone knows they’re going to pass all the costs straight to the consumer and we’ll be the ones getting it up the ass for another 20% of our income in taxes. Go dilate yourself.
Adrian Ward
>THIS IS COMmUNISM AHhHh
No. Communism is, by definition, a revolutionary movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order built upon shared ownership of production. With Socialism, the core principle is the nationalization of the means of production – i.e. the government seizes Amazon and Google. The Freedom Dividend represents neither of these concepts and actually fits seamlessly into capitalism. It is projected to boost the economy by $2.5 trillion in eight years.
Really, the universal basic income is necessary for the continuation of capitalism through the wave of automation and worker displacement. Markets need consumers to sell things to. UBI is capitalism with a floor that people cannot fall beneath.
Tyler Torres
>these fucking machines are take over my jobs - some guy during the industry revolution
Nice try shilling for the government by using fear
it should be noted commies like Bernie Sanders hate UBI part of how we know UBI is on the right, capitalist, side of history
Gabriel Rivera
All politicians are kike shills
Jose Brooks
good hopefully those people will become survivalists and soldiers.
Jeremiah Hill
hes already trying to replace them with robots either they're fired with a UBI to fall back on or they're fired without anything
Jonathan Johnson
We are going to take capitalism to the next level! We need UBI to prepare us for an automated 21st century.
Evan Smith
>Has never said you will get any money holy fuck are you guys stupid
Gavin Cook
Anyone shilling for UBI is by definition a redistributive communist. Sat Cong, fucker.
Noah Walker
Ok I'll accept $1000 but you have to let Trump build the wall first. Is that ok?
Mason Allen
adding a tax to the already existing taxes ?
Ian Ward
> YOU WONT HAVE JOB YOU MUST FOR YANG HES OUR ONLY SAVIOR
Gabriel Cook
Good job getting any of the major corporations to pay for this. All it'll accomplish (besides making money even more worthless) is making even more mid-to-small businesses bankrupt, and there goes all the people they employ.
Elijah Hill
>he didn’t say you would get it... Ahem.. “putting money into the hands of American consumers” One AI and automation is at its top level, it’s very possible that neither of us will be able to find a job. This isn’t like the industrial revolution, this is the biggest wave of automation in history.
Josiah Ross
It's barely enough to live on *now*. After the VAT tax gets passed along to consumers in the form of price increases, and rents raise as the landlords take into account that their tenants have and extra $12000 burning holes in their pockets, it will be *a completely inadequate amount to live on*. Inflation will run rampant and the dollar will become worthless.
“We find that 94% of net job growth in the past decade was in the alternative work category,” said Krueger. “And over 60% was due to the [the rise] of independent contractors, freelancers and contract company workers.” In other words, nearly all of the 10 million jobs created between 2005 and 2015 were not traditional nine-to-five employment.
Pic related, U6 accounting for gig workers. If you walk dogs and make $3,000/year, or drive Uber/Lyft and make $10,000/year, then you're considered to be employed by government statistics.
The temp and gig economy is falsifying the unemployment statistics.
This, I currently live in a van and only make enough for gas, food, and insurance. Work minimum wage and enjoy the life I have, no luxuries needed.
Gabriel Thomas
>it will cause inflation
The federal government recently printed $4 trillion for bank bailouts in its quantitative easing program with no inflation. Our plan for UBI uses mostly money already in the economy. In monetary economics, leading theory states that inflation is based on changes in the supply of money. The Freedom Dividend has minimal changes in the supply of money because it is funded by a Value-Added Tax.
It is likely that some companies will increase their prices in response to people having more buying power, and a VAT would also increase prices marginally. However, there will still be competition between firms that will keep prices in check. Over time, technology will continue to decrease the prices of most goods where it is allowed to do so (e.g., clothing, media, consumer electronics, etc.). The main inflation we currently experience is in sectors where automation has not been applied due to government regulation or inapplicability – primarily housing, education, and healthcare. The real issue isn’t universal basic income, it’s whether technology and automation will be allowed to reduce prices in different sectors.
Ryan Cox
>I fucking love inflation
Liam Lopez
> Not in our lifetime. They promise a mars landing by 1990, never happend
Samuel Sanders
This won’t cause inflation.
Nathan Cooper
so your against white gibs? because we'll never get rid of black gibs you realize right?
Wyatt Miller
He will announce a space elevator and give everyone 10k a month instead
Adrian Jones
It will reduce purchasing power. When everyone has $1,000 no one has $1,000.
Chase Foster
That's why the underemployment stat exists. How's that doing?
Jace Stewart
I like him. Gib Monie
Ryder Gutierrez
bull shit the US is not a 20% unemployment. ive been down there its quite nice not great depression levels of unemployment.
You always see the same lazy, uninformed arguments in these threads. Always. Over and over again, multiple times in the same threads. It's as if none of them even bother to read Yang's UBI plan on the website before coming to argue against it. Thanks for quoting from the website, it becomes very tiring to do after the 100th time.
Wyatt Turner
it only reduces purchasing power if you spend over $120000/yr, Yang predicted $140000/yr at one point because he doesn't want food/cloths to have the VAT
Dylan Price
So true. The right is all taxes this taxes this, when we usually have plans to pay for it that doesn’t involve taxing working people.
its masked by the current gig economy we have going on also they don't count people not actively looking for a job in unemployment statistics anymore for some reason
David Howard
Why fuck do you trust the government to handle your money. they can't budget shit. So much money already went to corruption and you still shilling to make me pay for more taxes.
The government handles money all the fucking time. That’s why we have roads, schools, police departments, we’d be nothing without it.
Jordan Hill
Fuck you. Fuck your VAT. Go back to Taiwan.
Eli Jenkins
central banks decide about whether or not there is inflation she is so hot youtu.be/j3UuSER4hPg
Ethan Hall
Thats part of the beauty of UBI eventually we can replace other, far more bureaucratic and administration cost filled forms of welfare with the UBI as we raise it UBI is very lean compared to all other forms of welfare
Elijah Ortiz
Everything you just said is completely meaningless. Companies will raise prices to pass the cost of the VAT along to consumers, landlords will raise rent to take advantage of renters having more disposable income. It doesn't matter whether the money for UBI already exists in the economy or not, inflation will happen.
Henry Moore
The 20% includes long-term discouraged workers and marginally-attached workers as well as those forced to work part-time because they cannot find full-time employment.The official U6 statistic does not include long-term discouraged workers, which is why the the ShadowStats U6 is always 5% higher than the official U6.
The gig and temp economy shot off after the recession. You can see this in the graph, how before 2010 the ShadowStats U6 closely mirrored the trends of the official U6. Basically, like in the article that I linked to, almost all job growth since 2005 has been temporary, gig or part-time positions.
David Ortiz
> Totally ignoring corruption and the part where they spend money on useless shit
We better get our fucking roads for all the shit tax we pay
Jacob Price
you are basically saying consumers are irrelevant
Alexander Gonzalez
>We can destroy the dollar WITHOUT NEW TAXES
Wow, what a great point
Blake Evans
Yes, the the job market IS booming, as long as you're willing to get a job using an App to deliver food, drive people around, walk dogs, babysit, or get a part-time minimum wage job at McDonald's or Walmart.
Those tax cuts really did "trickle down"!
Brody Barnes
Because of the Tragedy of the Commons, yeah, pretty much. Sorry bro, 'muh free market will fix it' just doesn't work.
Hunter Miller
everyone loves the dollar, except russia, china, iran, the ones being targeted
Dylan Foster
I'm thinking of starting my own business, but who will be my clients ?
William Turner
You want to tax economy of anemic growth even more. You are robbing future generations. Economy does not grow faster when Government redistributes but slows down. Take away from most productive people who have most ability to acquire knowledge thus building wealth and give it to slackers. You are a Communist.
Isaiah Morris
>A Value Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It is a fair tax and it makes it much harder for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share.
Yeah, just like corporations cover sales tax all on their own too, right?
Jaxon Jenkins
ecb ?
Daniel Gutierrez
Lol. The right thinks everything center of left is communist. Read above.
The right thinks people who want to tax me to give the money to other people need to be shot in the back of the head and buried in shallow graves. Sat Cong.
Juan Morris
i've put some thought into it over the past few weeks and UBI is the way to go. first, it will be the first step in dismantling our disgusting and dehumanizing wageslave culture. second, it will bring down the huge costs of the externalizations of poverty. i got to witness this first hand in downtown san diego where sections were quarantined due to so many homeless people shitting everywhere that it led to a hepatitis outbreak. it's ridiculous that the city spent millions to attempt to control a plague rather than giving those people money so they'll have better options over where to take a dump (among other things).
Robert Johnson
com·mu·nism /ˈkämyəˌnizəm/ noun A political theory advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned.
>Jews hate him! >Oh, he loves Israel now? Damn... >... >Billionaires hate him!
Dylan Peterson
Safety net is still capitalist, doesn’t sound like public ally owned property to me. I’ve actually read a lot of Marx/Lenin and your far off. By your safety net theory, most of Europe is communist.
Ethan Watson
The American dream: take a shit in public, win big prizes.
Landon Barnes
> i got to witness this first hand in downtown san diego where sections were quarantined due to so many homeless people shitting everywhere that it led to a hepatitis outbreak.
I wonder if the government have to do with that, oh wait regulations. I can't government cause those problem and now they want even more taxes to pay for them. The government is FUCKING GENIUS
Ryan Roberts
VAT taxes are regressive, you ignorant bint. They’re not going to do any more to help poverty than the service economy did. It’s nothing but a fucking circle jerk that makes everything that much more expensive because of the stupid levels of regulations and enforcement that go with it. All of that has to be paid for, too. God you people are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.
Anthony Perry
>they won't just pass on the cost to the customer I hate these shills.
Justin Hughes
>Provide a receipt for an appropriately-sized gun locker, or trigger lock per registered gun. Funny how that's underlined. A trigger lock is literally 10 dollars, and you only need to provide the receipt. You don't even have to ever use it. Why is that a big deal?
Gabriel Johnson
>Putting money into the hands of American consumers would grow the economy. NO it will not. The money will be spent at wal-mart and the other low-price places that import goods from China. China will also open up more companies on USA soil to grab that huge amount of money.
In the end, the majority of UBI will end up in the hands of the Chinese due to Clinton's Most Favored Trading Nation treaty with China. It will only help China continue to take over the rest of the world's resources.
The other part is that UBI is declared available to everyone. Past federal court precedents have shown you cannot "carve" out exceptions in something that is offered to everyone without being discriminatory. Thus, having UBI with a carve-out provision of "except when you have welfare" will eventually be ruled on appeal as being racially discriminatory. Thus, minorities will be able to receive UBI along with their existing social welfare payments.
If UBI is so good, then why not just give a $1000 additional tax exemption to everyone? This instant exemption is applied at the bottom line final number resulting in a new final line on the IRS income tax form 1040 which means UBI requires itemized returns.
As for UBI VAT taxes on goods, the corporations will pass the costs to the consumer. So there is no net gain in the end because everyone consumes a substantial amount of taxable goods and services each year (medical services, food, drugs, drinks, housing, telecom, utilities, clothing, general services, tickets/licenses, etc). The prices of all those things will go up as the corps pass their indirect VAT taxed production and distribution costs to us. Then at the register, we get hit again with the direct VAT on all but food.
The effect is that UBI actually increases the burden for those who work relative to those who do not work.
All that green-space money is the reason i'm employed. It generates the purpose of my role. It feeds the company that has provided me employment If the company didn't profit there would be no company and I would be unemployed.
If you think that is not true, then what are you waiting for? go freelance and work from home.
Agree with the taxes stuff though. Fuck tax.
Leo Scott
I that why i fucking hate the government, they created these problem in the first place complains about it and now wants more of your shit
Ryan Richardson
Or better yet: "Hello there tenant, an extra $1,000/month you say? Well shit, I need more rent from you then."
The Roosevelt Institute found that adopting an annual $12,000 basic income for every adult U.S. citizen over the age of 18 would permanently grow the economy by 12.56 to 13.10 percent—or about $2.5 trillion by 2025—and it would increase the labor force by 4.5 to 4.7 million people.
This is because putting money in people’s hands grows the economy, particularly when those people need the money and will spend it. Imagine a small town in Missouri with 5,000 qualifying residents. A guaranteed income of $12,000 would bring an extra $60 million of additional income into the community, most of which would be spent locally. Then imagine that playing out in every community in the country, big and small. Communities everywhere will have more vibrant local economies, creating more jobs and leading to new businesses.
