Seeing how Elon Musk wants a city on Mars...

Is Elon a African American?

When they achieve complete self sufficiency and no longer need Earth to sustain life and comfort.

At that point they will feel like any political control over then is irrelevant and revolt.

Total ban. The economy for the first 100 years will be so limited that importing or producing gunpowder or related materials will be infeasible, and there's no fucking chance guns are going to be left around in plastic domes for any reason.

500 years down the line, I can see Mars having a lively shooting community. Most habitats will probably be underground so that means you have the equivalent of Earth's land area to fuck around in. You have 0.3G there too, so I can imagine very long range (2 km+) shooting will be a thing.

Can you imagine airsoft on Mars? You could feasibly have CO2 powered jetpacks there. Fucking hopping jetpack airsoft battles.

>lead projectiles
Not happening. More than likely you'll see makeshift swords and maybe archery making a comeback.

>Fucking hopping jetpack airsoft battles.
HNNNG

It will turn into an ancap rapefest in 24 hours

>500 years down the line, I can see Mars having a lively shooting community.
not likely. if there is a total ban to begin with, there will be generations that have never known gun ownership. you might have a few that have experience with firearms or what ever their police/military use, but that will be it.

With a sparse population and no known extneral threats to said population there would be no need to guns. Everything goes out the window the moment other groups show up with Civilians.

>you might have a few that have experience with firearms or what ever their police/military use, but that will be it.
Unlikely. Guns are just too damn fun.

If you're interested y'all should read this series.
A Martian revolt is a big part of the series.
It kicks off when Earth starts using Mars a dumping ground for refugees and the Martian delicate culture that developed in the early days of colonization is being swamped.

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Honestly, I'd just give Mars independence if they ask.

Just saddle them with the cost of shipping everything over.

After the development of the Epstein drive

Guns would be extremely rare due to a very simple factor: Mars has very little nitrogen. Propellants need nitrates. But so do all living things.
All native Martian nitrogen would be heavily controlled and relegated to farming.
Can't have guns if you have nothing to shoot.

Even if that wasn't the case, people wouldn't want guns for defense because communities would only allow people in that they accept. Every community can only be entered by airlock. Whether it's underground or domed. You're going to need to pass an airlock to get in. Which means that there is extreme control from the people inside on who gets to come in.
Crime happens when you have a lack of homogeneity, be it cultural, racial, or economic.
The only people in a community will be those that the community has explicitly allowed in.

Absolutely, yes. That is a fantastic series!

Odds are they won't ask until they're comfortably self-sustaining.

>low g paired with low atmo
I could see some rifles easily firing over the horizon.
>ywn live to see competitive indirect target shooting

>>ywn live to see competitive indirect target shooting
We have that now.
It's called war

In which case we'd have gotten our money back with interest.

Win Win?

It's not the Martians we have to worry about rebelling.
It's the damn Moonies. Luna is in a tactically supreme position over Earth. Dropping rocks would be easy for them

They would need to be 100% self sufficient before they could revolt. That isnt happening for a long time.

>mars colony revolts
>mars colony wins revolt
>h-hey Earthlings. Sorry about the revolt and all. Can you please keep sending supply rockets to us at about 50 million $ each. We are running really low on food and medicine. Thanks!

>That isnt happening for a long time.
Not really.
Due to shipping costs, it's going to be far more efficient to give the Martian colonists the ability to make everything they need on their own.
The goal of any colony program would be to make the colonists self-sufficient as fast as possible.

The first waves of imports aren't going to be tools, they're going to be machines to make any tools the colonists need.
Like, we won't be sending fish to Mars but fishing rods.

How would ruling colonies on mars even work?

You don't really think Mars is gonna be filled with normal people do you?
Its going to filled with elites that have no reason to rebel.

Do what we say or we drop a bit of Deimos on you.

Elite wrench turners. Elite electricians and plumbers. Elite welders. Elite factory operators.

Elite don't like working. There will always be an inherent danger of the plans rebelking. Even more so when you don't have to worry about NATO and the U.N. and "foreign aid"

All that will be automated by the time a mars colony is feasible.

Not so "off" roman war god was ( mars)

You should check out Red Rising OP. It's a similar concept but it takes place after the solar system is colonized and organized into a caste system of colors. The synopsis of the first book sounds a bit like the hunger games, but it's not similar at all.
>tfw you'll never participate in an orbital invasion against space nazis

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Still need people to fix your automated shit.

>how long until Mars declares it's independence and wages a war for independence

Not soon enough

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I don't think It'll happen until they find a way to be self sufficient. Early on, they'll be reliant on shipments from Earth so they'll keep in good graces with those sending the shipments. Maybe once teraforming becomes viable or they find a way to get everything they'll ever need from Mars it'll happen.

Best not to bite the hand that feeds you, ya know?

Martian warlord thread?
General Fully Clothed reporting.

Some time between when Mars hits 500,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 population.

Unless they suddenly get some kind of technological edge on Earthers like they do in much Sci-fi because of the Martian need for technological resources in order to live.

An event such as the singularity could easily make it possible within 50 years.

Basically, depending on the rate of advancement and population growth it could be as soon as 50 years, or as late as 300 years from now.

Definitely,
Fucking Dusters love to hoard tech.

>Mars declares it's independence and wages a war for independence
Will planet Mars then be called "A-Mar-ica"?

I'll see myself out.

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>

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If Musk builds a city on Mars, it will already be independant. What they need to do is make it self sufficient as soon as possible.

>Earth soil: nitrate content 10-20 ppm
>Martian soil test samples per Curiosity rover: Nitrate content 1100ppm
We just take nitrogen from our air, mars will get theirs from the dirt.

That's not very much in the soil though. When we used mineral sources for saltpetre, we'd use guano and riverbeds .Neither of which are viable on Mars

Never, because there is no real reason to settle mars (nothing of value you cant get cheaper from an asteroid) so Mars will likely never develop enough of an economy to support a war of any kind, much less one for independence.

Never Mars will never (at least for hundreds if not thousands of years after colonization) be self sufficient enough for that.

No matter where you go someone's got to clean the toilets.

I remember reading the first book in that series. Holy shit what a slog that was. Endless, endless descriptions of Martian landscapes.

The second they land.

>We're gonna build a wall to keep the refugees out, a big bea-
>Fuck me they're dropping in from the skies
And then Martians built the most comprehensive surface-to-orbit defense batteries known to man. Works better than Earth because of the lower gravity too.

The moons make for nice gas stations for going into the outer planets

That's not how entropy works

Once they discover the ancient weapons hidden beneath the surface.

Martians will be superior to Earthlings. Think about it, who is going to colonize Mars? Cleetus? Jamal? People with degrees from Ivy Leagues. If they are trade jobs, they will be the best at their trade. Literally the top crop from Earth are the ones going to Mars and repopulating there.

They will not let the neanderthals of a dying planet rule over them.

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This is really fucking cool, where is it from?

Mars Congressional Republic

Just hurl an asteroid at earth.

It depends on who settles. An American-based colony like SpaceX probably won't revolt, but a Chinese colony might. I could see a "Martian Spring" happening ~100 years after colonization for colonies that want to be free of their oppressive Earth governments. Or maybe there will be a peaceful decolonization effort like we had in the 20th century.

>head out to the asteroid belt
>stick engines on big rocks
>gas the earthers space war now

Good idea

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Probably never because it will never be self sufficient. All this mars colonization is a pipe dream, a mars colony will be a 100 times less self sufficient than a research station on Antarctica and about as likely to revolt. It will also be less useful than one too.

You’re going to send tens of thousands of Ivy League graduates?
Also, why?
What do you need a Harvard lawyer for on mars?

You need farmers, miners, welders, electricians and engineers.

I sure hope president Morgan Clarke bombs those damn Martians.

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For them to even consider it, they would need to be fully self-sufficient.

Then there's the issue of possible colonies from other nations being a danger, and the fact that martian colonies would be a dangerous place to wage a war.

There is also the issue of Martian colonies remaining relatively civie free for a while.

We can also consider the XXI century like not being particularly fond of nationalism, so it might be harder for Mars to develop a national identity, ESPECIALLY because unlike the American colonies, they won't be isolated from their motherland thanks to modern tech.

And lastly there's the ever present issue of nuclear deterrent, which I could see being scary for any widespread rebellion.

Basically, I think it's going to take a long time and if it does happen it might not be successful.

What do you need people with experience in guns for? That's like saying that a country with a gun arm on Earth could never allow guns to be legal. They would just look at the US or Switzerland or whatever country with guns and some would think "that seems like a good idea because X" and they would try to push for it.

A research station in Antarctica has to deal with the fact that they are living on ice rather than being able to hole up in comfy lava tubes where there is plenty of space for hydroponics farms without getting frozen. Not being on ice also means they can dig and mine for metals and all other such rock goodies.

However, Venus is definitely the better place to go first. It has an atmosphere to begin with, is much closer to Earth gravity, has a habitable 1 atm zone where people could walk around with gas masks. Floating cities with drone mining bots for surface work might seem difficult at first but there's so much less to terraform about the planet and that's a far bigger project than making a city fly on heavier air than what's inside the colony.

>However, Venus is definitely the better place to go first.

There are lots of places better than Mars for first time colonization efforts, even NASA wanted to go to our own Moon first, but Musk is a charlatan that wants to go to Mars to stroke his own ego and get the r*ddit soyboys cheering him despite it being an utterly superfluous goal for such a huge project.

>the billionaire with a groundbreaking rocket company currently planning on creating a reusable rocket the size of the saturn v is entirely dependent on the praise of balding middle aged weaklings on reddit

Earth's society will be destroyed in nuclear war soon after we've send couple of rockets and colonists to Mars.
With their source of supply for important materials gone, the Martians will be forced to improvise like hell to survive. If they manage to pull it off it will take at least half a century to start truly thriving and expanding in their new home.
Meanwhile, the people on Earth have also managed to get their shit partially in order and will start demanding Mars to bend to their authority, by force if necessary, setting the stage for humanity's first space war.

Why do people always assume plastic domes, especially for as long as 100 years?
When we have spaceship threads, we don't assume they have to be flying saucers. Why stick to a such a stupid and outdated sci-fi meme?

If nobody gives a shit about guns as a citizen value then it won't make a resurgence with people who view them strictly as tools. Europe is a good example, there's no chance of a culture coming back anytime soon.

You're underestimating just how hostile the Venereal surface is.
Being able to go outside in an hazmat suit rather than a spacesuit is nothing compared to resource availability, and if you can't pull what you need from the clouds you're not supporting a self-sustaining colony on Venus. An outpost maybe, but not a colony.
Terraforming Venus is so far out that its not a viable consideration unless you want to wait until we're almost a Type 2 civilization before starting any colonization attempts.

Terraforming it only needs to concern itself with the composition of the atmosphere. It's something that can be done very slowly over a long period of time. I'm speaking in a comparative sense. Better than terraforming Mars, which needs more mass for more gravity, more atmosphere, a new functioning core for a new magnetosphere... Incidentally, tossing gas from Venus over to Mars might be one of those long term projects when humanity has got nothing else to do.

As a low-grav rock with a thin atmosphere, Mars might be good as a manufacturing planet once humans start to develop the Solar system. Relatively cheap ground-to-space launches and pretty big things can be built under low grav without the awkward hassles of zero grav. Only problem is keeping machinery cool without an atmosphere to bleed it off to. Maybe 40k had the right idea about Mars.

>Though most missions to the red planet have failed
>Take all the Vatnik attempts out and it's the other way around

>a new functioning core for a new magnetosphere
Nah, that's a reddit meme.
Venus has no magnetosphere either and look at its atmosphere.
Mars lost its air over time because of how light it is.
It has the same surface gravity as Mercury.

If you want to terraform Mars, the easiest way to do it would be to find some icey asteroids from the out solar system and drop em on the Martian polar caps. Two for one deal.
You free up all that frozen CO2 and you bring in more water/volatiles from the asteroid.
That's how Earth got so much water.

Sure, in a few million years, the atmosphere will be diminished from the gravity problem. But that's tomorrow's problem

>This turns into aldnoah zero
Terrain BTFO when

Can't wait for Full Metal Jacket: Mars Edition

"I wanted to be the first kid on my block to have a confirmed kill. On Mars."

Someone post the two green texts about us Russia cooperation in space vs pajeet and chang

Loved that book
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

It's really great and something any Jow Forumsfag should read despite it not being about guns or man to man combat.
TANSTAAFL

asteroid mining is much harder (small moving objects all over). You'd need to send drones and space stations all the way out there and back.

mars is closer than the belt

mars has a lot of mineral resources

mars is a planet with a gravity we can work in

Asteroid mining would involve sending a robot probe to redirect an asteroid into a Lagrange point or lunar orbit.

So now we need to send a bot out to the belt with enough fuel to leave the planet, get to it's destination, and then bring a giant heavy-ass payload back towards Earth. And that's before we see any sort of return on the investment.

we'll be a fully assimilated technological data hivemind by the time the technology exists to make war between 2 planets viable
we're already most of the way there, information is not only instantly accessible on a global scale, but it's becoming impossible to avoid.

sometime after constructing the ring of iron

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I don't think you realize the value of an asteroid. Anteros is worth 5570 billion and would have a projected value of 1250 billion, if we found some way to make getting to LEO cheaper it could have even higher profit margins.

>then bring a giant heavy-ass payload back towards Earth.
There are plenty of ways to cheat this. You don't need to strap some Saturn V style boosters to a rock to get it here on overnight delivery.

A fleet of wee little ion engines could do it in a decade or so.
Or just use a mirror and the energy of the sun to vaporize strategic parts of the rock. The gas expulsion would generate enough force to move the asteroid.
The initial investment would be extremely cheap compared to the amount of materials recovered.

If that's ever done, whatever company would need to be horizontal. The end goal would have to selling finished spaceships or stations because the amount of raw material in a single asteroid would collapse the hard commodity market.

All that speculation is useless because it applies modern prices to something that would change everything.
It's like saying "Gosh I wish everyone had a 1000 BTC then everyone would be rich"

No it lost it because of a lack of magnetosphere. Venus just has a very dense atmosphere and a unique ionosphere that induces a magnetosphere.

Mars did lose its atmosphere because of the loss of its internal dynamo and thus its magnetic field. And if it were larger its dynamo would have lasted longer. But if we gave it an atmosphere it would take it hundreds of thousands of years for the solar wind to strip it from Mars. It's mass is a minor concern.

I'm pretty drunk now and I'm not going to drag this out into a "hurrr gimme your sorces" shit
The rate of attrition due to solar wind is absolutely minute compared to gas just leaking away due to having just 0.3 gs.

Do some googling and what not. Solar wind is not that big a thing when it comes to stripping atmo. Look at Mercury. It has a (VERY) thin atmosphere, but one that remains nonetheless. It has more "air" than the moon.

no niggers on mars and NO liberals so help me god Ill flush them out an airlock.

There was this story I read years ago that must have been written decades before even that.
Before we knew that Mars was a blasted wasteland.
Anyways, America sent all the black people to Mars. They set up a nice little quaint community with plantation style houses.
Then after 50 years, white people show up and say "Please can we make a home here too"
Then I think the blacks lynch the whites.

Or maybe they decide to help them because they know how vile racial prejudice is. I forget which. Either is possible

You're not kidding. Dude had some neat ideas but damn could he have used a good editor. If you thought the first was a slog, the last is just one endless political debate after another.

That's actually why I really loved the series.
I went in expecting an Asimov style autistic blueprint of "How to colonize Mars"
But what I got was a character driven emotional story.
It was a lot more human that most sci-fi.

Though to be honest, I did kinda let my eyes drift over all the anarcho-communist crap

Just play call of duty; Infinite warfare, that is a historical and factual game that's based on the war

You're talking about Jeans Escape, and 1) it only affects lighter gasses and 2) its minuscule in comparison to whats being stripped by the solar wind.

You're comparing Mars to Mercury - you're right that they have similar gravity. But Mercury has an atmospheric pressure of 1 NANO pascal, compared to Mars with an atmosphere 101.3 KILO pascals. That means that Mars has an atmospheric pressure 101,300,000,000,000 times that of Mercury. If Mars' atmospheric loss was due in majority to Jeans Escape, there wouldn't be such a ridiculously large disparity. All of MAVENs data supports solar wind as the primary cause of Mars atmosphere.

>colony all alone on mars
>no defense against the ayys
Fuck that shit, I’m staying here.

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