India produces new MBT

>India produces new MBT
>Its shit

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It looks like a T90 and a Leopard2 had a retarded child but god bless poo in loos if they can slash the hips of the arrogant dragon.

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No, it's Indian.

>if they can slash the hips of the arrogant dragon
They can't. The Arjunk, along with most of India's indigenous weapons systems, is near-completely useless.

india's been known for cash cow of russia

i heard they had one of the lead designers behind the leo 2 consult for the Ajun

im guessing the indian designers realised very quickly how far out of their league he was and just did everything he told them. Just look at the fucking turret.

we are comparing the arjun with what mbt to call it shit?
to americans,anything that is not abrams is shit.

And here it is. The Pajeet fanboy that has yet to realize the Indian military has completely failed at developing anything decent. Here's a fact- the Arjun is by far the worst MBT to be accepted into service, ever.

weak bait, you clearly know nothing of tanks

>if you make a argument you are a poo in the loo and is baiting
>why is it shit?
>BAITING,STOP CRYING PAJEET
good lord.

India basically only deals with skirmishes, so for that purpose the tank will do fine

Do you want me to go into detail about why the Arjun is shit?

that's exactly what i want.please no buzzword,i know some people here can make a decent post.

Who wants to bet that it's got stolen parts from the T-90

If this thread's up in 15-20 minutes I'll write out a big post detailing every thing wrong with it, got to take care of some shit first.

> Who wants to bet the Europeans stole gunpowder from the Chinese
> Who wants to bet the russians stole some parts for the ak from the stg44

The list goes on. Copying isn't a bad thing inherently

>mfw europe could get basic sanitation sooner but the autistic spanish destroyed everything.

The Arjun has been out of service since 2013 thanks to a lack of spare parts.

cag.gov.in/content/report-36-2016-union-government-defence-performance-audit

I'd say that's a sign it's shit.

They've pushed the Arjun years ago, then decided to buy more T-90s from the Russians because they realized it was shit. If they had any faith in it at all they would've sent it to the Tank Biathalons that Russia hosts to show off both the tank and their engineering capabilities. No surprise that we've seen the Chinese tank sooner than the Indian one.

Makes me think of the supposed Iranian MBT as well. If they claim that they've made their own MBT they would've submitted it to the games as well, but we all know that it's just some M60/T-72 rip off.

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>that pic
HNNGGGGG

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>implying the Arjun isn't world's better than the Type 99 and the T-14

The specifications reveal that it is a machine up to par with other contemporary MBTs so I don't understand why everyone in here is bashing poo loos

Okay here goes. So every good tank design is a balance of the three cornerstones of performance- Armor, mobility, and firepower. The Arjun is severely lacking in all of those departments- among other things, like development time, reliability, and suitability to the Indian army's needs. Lets start off with Armor.

The Arjun has an absolutely awful armor layout- heavily influenced by the Leopard 2( Who's design team helped with the design of the Arjun somewhat) but has some bizarre design features that ruin the Arjun's armor profile. As is seen in the image, the Arjun incorporates "Kanchan" special armor, but this is only applied to a few small areas of the turret front. In addition, the overly-large gun mantlet and gunner's sight are huge weakpoints. The side armor is incredibly thin, unlike western tanks like the Abrams and Leopard 2. There is also no separation from the ammo-rack to the crew, like in most western designs.

The Arjun's gun is far too weak to be of any use in destroying enemy tanks, for the questionable trade-off in using HESH ammunition. The APFSDS round developed for the Arjun's 120MM rifled gun can only penetrate 300MM of RHA equivalent at 2 km- ineffective against anything newer than a T-72A. HESH rounds, which are the reason the Arjun uses a rifled gun, are ineffective against even light modern armor, and their anti-bunker job can be done by modern HE rounds. This is one of the major drawbacks of having a 20 year development time- tech advances that you can't account for made the Arjun obsolete before it even answered service.

Mobility is not a strong suit for the Arjun either. It uses the MTU 838 engine, developed for the Leopard I- a tank almost 30 tons lighter. While the engine has been uprated to handle battlefield mobility, doing this increases the need for maintenance and increases the failure rate of the engine. The Arjun is also far too heavy for India's third-world infrastructure.

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I could write more but I think you get the idea, and the character limit stopped me anyway. There's very good reasons why the Indian army has chosen to buy more T-90s instead of the Arjun.

>rifled gun

ffs india

Thanks for the insight user

I'm curious why they continued down the route of rifled gun if it took that long to develop though. Chally 2's been in service for about 20 years now and it has been clear the rifled gun wasn't the best move. Would changing it to a smoothbore really have caused that many design headaches?

No problem, I love writing stuff like this.
>I'm curious why they continued down the route of rifled gun if it took that long to develop though
I think you could just chalk that up to DRDO incompetence mostly, but the India-Pakistan border has a large amount of bunkers on it, which HESH used to have a big advantage against.

The Challenger 2 is an abysmal embarrassment of a tank so it only makes sense that they chose that.

Sod off muhammad

I tought that rifling the gun would have no drawbacks vs the smoothbore gun.
Why is smootbore better than rifled?

>>India
>>shit

I see what you did there.

A lot of this stems from India's pathological need to develop and build everything domestically. Stuff like the Arjun and the INSAS are the result of this. They take outside ideas and consultation, then "Indianize" them. Since India is a bureaucratic nightmare that blocks out all competence within it, this sort of thing happens.

>I tought that rifling the gun would have no drawbacks
In a world where APFSDS is the be-all-end-all anti-tank round, you couldn't be more wrong.

checked and street shitters wrecked, again

>Why is smootbore better than rifled
They can fire Sabot rounds at higher velocity, wear out less, and are much more suitable for firing HEAT ammunition.
Another good post. I'm not as knowledgeable about fighters and small-arms but I've heard the horror stories. But yeah DRDO, and Indian arms procurement in general is a goddamn mess.

>breaks down en route
No, it will not "do fine." The T-34 had better quality control than this useless husk.

AhahahahahahA

what kind of kindergarten logic is that?

>pathological need to develop and build everything domestically

There's nothing pathological about the wisdom behind it (just the execution). Most major militaries have always emphasized the importance of a domestic arms industry since it's good strategy to maintain one.

Even the French and their subpar machinery are still respectably self sufficient.

How come the performance difference on the British L30 and the Arjun's main gun is so large?

Step aside poo-tank. Superior rice mobile passing through RIGHTFUL RICE CLAY

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Because Pakistani engineering is superior to Indian engineering.

>can't build an ak clone
>can build a better tank than russia
hmmmm

lel

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>How come the performance difference on the British L30 and the Arjun's main gun is so large
It mainly has to do with the pressure and design of the gun and ammunition itself- though India uses 1-piece 120mm rifled ammunition that could theoretically allow for longer penetrator rods, their engineering and mechanical technology is far behind the UK.

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pretty much any self sufficient country should desire to have a healthy domestic arms industry unless you want to be completely reliant on foreign suppliers for anything
i give them props for trying but holy shit it's not looking good
then again, you have to crawl before you can walk etc etc

another inherit from bongistan

Why is the gun mantlet so big?

ah finally a great answer,if i try hard enough some anons with brains can make great ´posts.

every tank comes with a portable toilet user.the toilet floor is 100% indian dirt.

Fucking hell, some major world powers in that list even speaking as a Bong

>here are the winners
>north korea- all gold medals
>china -all silver medals
>russia-all silver medals
>usa won nothing.

>Fucking hell, some major world powers in that list even speaking as a Bong

never understand why westerners are this delusional

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The issue here is that India does this to the point that it's detrimental. Being able to build your own guns and tanks is great. Building garbage that doesn't work purely because you invented it is not. As previously mentioned, India's current procurement and development facilities are a significant obstacle.

India is constantly overextending itself, rather than gradually building up its capabilities. Cases in point:


INSAS:
>Insists on a domestic service rifle. Builds the INSAS
>The INSAS is shit, and is now being partially replaced by (imported) AK variants

Arjun:
>Insists on domestic tank in 1974
>The Arjun takes so long to build they end up buying T-90 and T-72's from Russia
>Arjun enters service after 37 years of development
>Immediately out of service because India wants to supply spare parts domestically but can't.
>Role taken up by T-72's and T-90's

>which HESH used to have a big advantage against.
Why it doesn't anymore?
> but I've heard the horror stories.
Please user,share some of them.I want to laugh at Tejas' expense.

Didnt they start working on that in the early 70s? Its just now hitting production?

>Why it doesn't anymore?

The way HESH works is spreading out plastic explosive directly on the armor of a tank and then exploding, sending spall fragments everywhere. If the vehicle has multilayered armor(and almost everything bigger than an ATV does nowadays) then it's completely useless.
>Please user,share some of them.I want to laugh at Tejas' expense.

Like I said, I'm not really too knowledgeable about fighters but here's something: supposedly, it has a flight time on internal fuel of less than 1 hour. Yikes.

Adding to the logistic burdain, its too wide for indias railways

Western countries don't attend at all m8.

Supposedly the Tejas is intended to replace their MiG-21s.
Think about that. HAL can't even build a light fighter suitable to take the place of fucking FISHBEDS in a 3rd world air force. It's a goddamn tragedy of an aircraft. Slow, unreliable, no legs at all, structural deficiencies, problems with systems and weapons integration especially.
They should just send the MiGs to Isreal and have them overhaul the structure and install Elbit radars.

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muhammad?did you forget the aztecs?but i can't expect much from nu/pol/

>i heard they had one of the lead designers behind the leo 2 consult for the Ajun
they did not, unless they told him to fuck off right away, brcause that tank is pure poo

Did someone sell poo in loos Object 490 blueprints?

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>If the vehicle
He was asking about bunkers.

Ah ok, I mixed something up there. HESH still works against fixed positions but with modern HE ammunition(And HEAT to some extent) you don't reallly need to use them anymore, especially since they're basically useless against armored vehicles.

>India produces something
>it's shit

How so?
It has a gun that works and it can drive. I'm sure it will do fine against chink zergs

So much india in this webM

>being surprised when anything that comes out of India is shit
You clearly have much to learn Gorra-ji

50 cent posters aside, China actually has decent tanks, guns and aircraft.

>copy the Leopard 2A4’s flawed armor layout
>make it worse

the AK is not very similar internally to the STG.

You'd honestly have a better case with the FAL

>It has a gun that works and it can drive
Lets think about the two main adversaries that the Indian army would potentially face. Pakistan, and China. Now, for all the memes about China's shittiness ( and a good bit of it is true), they have a decent weapons industry. It's hard to find good information on Chinese weaponry that isn't biased but the consensus is that the Type 96 is equivalent to a late model T-72. The Type 99 is probably equivalent to a late model T-90, maybe even a bit better with the nERA panels on the most recent version. The Arjun is deficient against both of these threats. Pakistan is also well equipped with armor, possessing 300+ T-80UDs, along with a locally produced version of a Chinese T-72. There's also rumor of them buying either the Oplot or the VT-4. Is the Arjun capable of dealing with these tanks? Probably not.

Superpooer by 2020

>vertical armor
Have they learned nothing?

bongolids SEETHING ITT

India's new 8x8 apc. Look at the quality welding, steelwork.

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needs more dakka!

Is that a BTR turret?

It looks like the BMP-2 turret on a REALLY shitty 8 wheel chassis

Is the lower glacis armor plate being held on by 4 straps? That armor plate doesn't even look like its manufactured to the correct size!!

that's actually a very few successful case of recent indian army acquisition projects
tata is likely the only capable conglomerate left in india

but why does it look like its made out of lego?

Didn't they test the Mk.II armor with a T-90 shooting point blank into the front armor with no penetration?

It's bolt on extra armor you mong.

No.

/notanks/ here. what am i looking at?

Inspection hatch, is my guess. Or you know...LOO FOR THE POOOO

Body of that APC looks like Patria AMV.

>Leopard 2A4’s flawed armor layout
It's flawed? Explain.

A place that normally has thick armor.

>It's flawed? Explain.

The location of the main gunsight, fixed on the 2A5.

Not that guy, but there is armor behind the sight, actually more armor than the left side of the turret.

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Not only is that incorrect, but there is a hole for the optic equipment leading to the gunners position.

not directly behind the sight. The optic equipment goes under the armor. pic related

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And the armor does not extend under the optic cavity.

this thing looks pissed off to even be alive
>big angery india brows

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Correct, but that doesn't ever matter, unless you're taking on a shot from the air. There's no gaps or holes from the front.

The armor cavity is thinner on the right side of the tank than on the left, and 2A4’s have pretty bad armor as it were.