Is 5.56 actually a man-stopper from 20 inch barrels?

It kills very well when it's rounds reliably fragment which is velocity related. Depending on the ammunition use, minimum velocity to fragment can be pretty low. For cheap ammunition, m193 out of 14.5" will be good to ~90 yards, 16" ~105 yards and 20" to ~130 yards. With better ammunition options it can do 200 yards plus even out of shorter barrels but you're in the 50cent a round area

Nah, I've seen them bounce off people at as close as 30yds. You need to use real fuckin' NATO for any effectiveness

Does it fragment bigger with more velocity?

20 inche ARs gas system works better.

I found one article that goes way into this. The problem is they didn't go under 16 inches for an obvious reason.

The loss from 20 inches to 16 inches was 214 fps. So cutting it down more would have even greater effects on the fps at 14 inches.

rifleshooter.com/2014/04/223-remington5-56-nato-velocity-versus-barrel-length-a-man-his-chop-box-and-his-friends-rifle/

Yes fragmentation is dependent off of the velocity.

Let some one shoot you and find out.

I think a 16" midlength is better than 14.5" carbine

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Hard to tell user, shoot yourself with a 5.56 then come back and report it to us in detail.

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>my feelings when 40gr VMAX from my 26" varmint rifle literally makes squirrels explode like a Saw movie even at 300+ yards

I know it doesn't penetrate like FMJ but if these VMAX hit your arm or leg or neck you'd be utterly and completely fucked.

No you haven’t.

After penetration, the greater the deceleration the more the bullet fragments, so yes. Anything over 2600 ft/s upon penetration will reliably cause fragmentation in the wound channel from m193. The greater the velocity upon striking the target the move violent the fragmentation.

Makes me think of Hornady’s 110 grain TAP in .308. That thing is supposed to be nasty when it hits.

no, thats why all of nato relies on it.

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>110 grain TAP
Yeah if you sacrifice penetrative abilities you can dump all of the energy immediately on impact. It's pretty fucking gruesome.

Pic is a ground squirrel shot at ~280 yards with a 87gr 6mm VMAX. Imagine if that was an unprotected forearm or thigh.

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Neat. Wonder what the difference in wound channels and fragmentation would be within 10 yards for 10.5", 11.5", 14.5", 16", 18" and 20"

Probably matters more inside closer ranges from most gun owners who'd use it for self-defense. Some cavitation would be helpful

Seems better for HD not to have a great deal of penetration. Even if he's got body armor he won't keep fighting after his arm or leg explodes

Well, once I saw a squirrel that I hit with .22 LR have its entire digestive system outside of its body, so I'm not sure that they're the most reliable indicator of effectiveness on human targets.

For self defense i'd rather have the shortest barrel possible.

Easier to handle and get the weapon on target, especially when in a vehicle or indoors.

I'm sure nobody would enjoy being on the receiving end of my 260mm barrel with M855 spittin out if it ever came to that scenario.

Only when you unlock its true potential with a 1:14 twist.

Is he okay?

How much does barrel length affect loudness and concussive forces for 5.56? My friend had an 8.5" that was retarded. Haven't really shot my 14.5",16" or 20" side by side but I think the carbine seems louder

Bc its true. Thats why

Very, very much. The original XM177 flash hider was partly a suppressor, and why a lot of the 10" guns in use have blast redirectors like the Noveske

How are the handling differences. Manuverability?

It's pretty loud. I have a Spikes dynacomp shorty on and it helps control any muzzle rise but doesn't dissipate any concussive blast or muzzle flash.

Anyone shooting next to me at a range is blown away by the sound and blast, but this is a gun Ikeep in my car just in case, so I could give a shit less about noise.

thread theme youtu.be/yRYFKcMa_Ek

I can't compare fairly since the carbine has a SOCOM profile barrel, it feels a lot more front heavy, the weight is more evenly distributed on the midlength. It is nice being able to hold the handguards out a little farther, but it isn't a big difference. They're really similar overall although the midlength is a little softer shooting

COD doesn't count

Intradasting. Are new production versions modified so as to not decrease noise?

it might not be as effective against a drugged out junkie as 7.62

but then again, i guess 7.62 is more of a car-stopper

Original XM177 moderators have a moderate suppression effect (around 5 decibels), and as such are considered suppressors according to the ATF, unfortunately. I don't know of any company that makes proper reproductions.

Match your barrel length to the velocity at the muzzle. Apply it to chart.

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Nasty.

>he doesn't realize it's making the gun even louder

Lame, seems cool to have a somewhat effective (albeit limited) muzzle device that reduces noise without needing to be maintained like a suppressor

>Imagine what extra 200 fps can do on the regular
Nothing for terminal ballistics.

I want to say I recall reading that Tony's Customs made, or had them made, a few legit versions (tax stamp required) for a sort of group buy on a forum somewhere..

If you had something like this permanently attached to, or even machined into, a new barrel, would it still be considered a suppressor?

Yes, just like an integrally suppressed barrel for a 10/22, it's still a suppressor and requires a tax stamp.

Makes sense. Thought maybe since intergrally suppressed barrels are still dismantled to be serviceable that it might make a difference

I have a 10.5 and 18" AR.

The 10.5 is loud, very loud. With earprotection on it doesn't require doubling up or anything like that though.

It does however have a fuckhuge muzzleblast and some serious concussive force shit going on. Most of the force is directed away, so when shooting it's no issue for me. But people nearby definitely feel it. Not as bad as an AK with a crazy brake or something though, so again nothing I'm worried about.

I've found 14" and up are all pretty similar, louder as it gets shorter usually, but not absurdly so.

I have a 10.5 with a soldered 5.5 flash hider the original CAR 15 clone from 1987.

I like it a lot for shooting at night because I don't go blind. I have is set up as a 100 yard gun and don't expect more than that.
Accuracy does suffer that is probably 50% barrel length and 50% it is old as shit and has 25k+ rounds through it.

This. You idiots.

What is the deal with the barrel length meme? Ammunition is far more important. mk 262 out of a 14.5 inch barrel will fragment at a longer range and much more reliably than m193 or m855 out of a 20".

There is a greater drop than 200 fps. Yes between 20 inches and 16 inches is a 200 fps drop but we are not taking about that. We are taking 14 an 20 inches which is good to give us just over 400 fps drop.

We're going need some sauce on that.

The difference between a 20” and 14.5” for M193 is ~200 FPS at the barrel.

Won't 1:12 be about as good? I learned a lot of things about what I do and don't want from my first AR, and I want my second to have a slower twist barrel than the 1:9 I currently have.

Are you shooting sub 50 grain varmint grenades?

>good luck using that gas operated poodle shooter in the airless vacuum of space
Roller delayed blowback purely mechanical action zero gravity anoxic master race reporting in.
>although, honestly, at reasonable distances against armored & unarmored humans, 5.56 is literally the most efficient & widespread solution at this time

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Out of a 20" barrel, the M193 round gets a muzzle velocity of around 3250 fps. It's generally accepted that fragmentation happens

No, 55 grain. But I want that Vietnam era ballistic effect

Gas operated can work in a vacuum retard

It's just sleeping.

.458 SOCOM suppositories

>Gas operated can work in a vacuum retard

>shoots round
>round ejects
>no gas to push from ejecting bullet
>does not cycle

You realize the gas would be rapidly expanding CO2 from the powder right? I would be more worried about metal binding from a vacuum weld.

you cant be this dumb

youtu.be/vil5b-PEycE?t=2827
>you're welcome

More like 250-300

birdshot is more efficient

>idk why that linked video starts at the beginning instead of at the designated time index
Relevant-to-gas-operation-in-vacuum-scene begins at 47:20 and lasts for like three minutes.

Well, it's also a damn good episode.

>vacuum weld

only happens if the metal is EXTREMELY clean

Problem is any moving or even touching parts will wind up wearing, which will expose clean metal, which will not form any oxidization that would prevent cold welding because ya know, no oxygen.

has been is and will be

Not as over exaggerated. 1:14 absolutely fucked 55gr bullets at 100yds. Most I've gotten out of heaver grain bullets in my 1:12 is moderate ice picking and key holing.

I like that setup

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Depends on many factors: range, load, etc. Many times it is

You do realize the powder has oxidants in it? Enough to cause pressure for cycling. The issue is more now to do with heat dispersion since no atmosphere.
I'm not going to take facts from a science fiction show.

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And bare metal gets very hot in direct sunlight. Especially black like most rifles

Well I'd take an M16 over an M4 if I knew I'd have to shoot it. Any advantage you get

Proportionate to that of multiple rapid explosions?

What about if you pretty much plan to exclusively shoot .223 steel cased? Is the extra barrel length going to be pointless since the round won't fragment anyway?

The Atlantic Arms Special PTR-91 in that configuration is my favorite rifle to shoot. Not my nicest rifle, or my most expensive, but definitely my favorite. I still wish they had released a 93 clone but I imagine they have one in the works.

>steel cased
do not do this

>are bullets dangerous?

Oftentimes questions answer themselves if you simply rephrase them.

This is not an example of that type of question. .22 - or as you call it, 5.56 - is not a manstopper. It is a leisure round for people too weak to fire actual warfighting calibers like the .30, .40, and .50 caliber families.

Go the fuck away nogunz faggot

Actual woman detected.

You've clearly never shot anything that wasn't simply a children's toy. Shooting real calibers like .30-06, .45-70, or, for that matter, anything with a hyphen in it is good medicine for your condition.

While size matters, length does too.

You gotta back the girth and length in the right combination.

Caliber is offset by speed.

Yeah, you'ld need a one hit kill when youre paying $1 a round and weigh 45lbs of ammo, because those "womans calibers" can lay out a volume of fire.

Dont tell me about how youll use your "mans caliber" from distance and take precison one hit kills, because someone with a "womans caliber" will outflank and ventilate ya.

We learned this in literally every major conflict with large small arms engagements.

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Why spend $20-50 per kill when you could spend a quality $2.50?

surprisingly it mostly does

Jokes aside, relying on volume of fire is literally gambling with your own life and wasting money. Does it work? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely not.

Actually, per KILL it would be 25cent for 5.56, call it three rounds, 75cent.

For a KILL, you'd call it say one shot to be generous, $1 a round.

Not counting suppressive fire, glancing hits, and wounds, that still puts "mens calibers" in the red.

Counting suppressive fire, you might be expending $14 in a firefight with an AR or AK per mag, while a M14, G3, 45-70 repeater, or FAL is mag dumping at least $20, and is only able to be price competitive with an AR on the table of supressive fire BECAUSE YOU CAN CARRY MORE 5.56 THAN 7.62 TO SHOOT.

A standard battle load for AR is 6+1, or 210 rounds. About $126 if $12 American eagle M193.
A standard battle load for an M14 is 4+1, 100 rounds, generously supplied is 8+1 at 180 rounds.At $15 a box of American Eagle M80, 135$ to stay competitive to AR.

This means the AR guy can afford to suppress MORE, carry MORE, and thus KILL more.
While youre on your 5th and final battle rifle magazine.

Since even before smokeless powder, fire and maneuver is key. Niggers hunting cops do it, Germans with Dryse's chasing Austrians with muzzle loaders, Soviets with SMGs slaughtering Nazis with K98s in Stalingrad...

>5.56 will be available in the whole solar system in the future.
WRONG
ALL CIVILIAN GUN OWNERSHIP SHALL BE BANNED

>real calibers
right, because you know more about guns than literally every military on earth.

Am I paranoid for wanting .308/7.62 in case I have to go against armored targets?

The way I see it, 20" 5.56 is pretty lethal but the only round that would actually have an effect on level 4 plates would be 855a1. In a real firefight with shtf bad guys, Id probably be missing more shots than Im landing so Id want the ones that hit to pack a bigger punch if its armored. Cuz what good is 5 rounds to center mass if they all get stopped by a plate right? Its not like it would actually disable them either.

>relying on volume of fire is literally gambling with your own life and wasting money. Does it work? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely not.

except every fight decided by small arms in the past century says you're wrong.

Can you please convince me to get a 5.56 platform instead of .308? I wanna innawoods shtf stuff and Im the guy in the group of ar guys that says "what if they be wearing plates? " Would our 5.56 be enough?