Lets talk about reloading, are cost saving per round worth it? will this kit actually get me started, what other tools do I need to get into it.
goal is to focus on 308 and learn me some stuff so I can do half decent load outs for 1000 yard wireless paper hole punching.
Are the dudes that cast their own bullets going to die from heavy metal poisoning?
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Probably not.
Hell the nogs will kill us before that happens!
Looks like a great set-up, mine is nearly identical.
how much do you shoot and how much is your time worth?
if you manage to save 10 cents per round reloading, you'll have to shoot around 10k rounds to break even if the equipment costs 1k total.
On top of that, you'll need to spend many hours actually doing the reloading.
If you're just doing it to save money then just do the cost benefit calculations but if you enjoy it as a hobby go for it.
The way I see it is that if someone offered you a part time job reloading rounds and paid you a dime per round reloaded. Not worth it imo.
>reloading 308
Why not just reload 7.62x39..
The Lee presses are alright. Get RCBS or better dies/tools because Lee has a tendency to break. Don't use a powder measure, weigh every load to get the best accuracy. It's definitely worth it in the sense that you can make exactly the right cartridge you want, be it 1000 yards or a close range hunting round, you don't get that kind of selection with store bought. For just stamping out practice ammo in bulk... Not so much. I buy most of my practice ammo these days.
Maybe he has a 308 rifle?
according to Lee, people get lead poisoning from washing brass before depriming.
Like any complicated question, the answer is always "it depends."
It depends on what you intend to do. It depends how many rounds you plan to shoot per month. It depends on how precisely you want to control your ammo.
If you shoot >1k rounds per month, then saving brass and investing in a fully featured reloading setup with as much automation as possible makes sense. Such a set up is the most expensive. At such high volumes, the cost savings will eventually pay for the start up costs. Beyond that, the savings will continue to add up.
If you, like me, are interested in customizing ammo and working up the best loads for a given and preparing small batches while ready to do lots of work BY HAND, you can get into reloading for a reasonable cost. You damn sure wont save money. It will take a long time to break even on the start up costs alone. But you get the satisfaction of making your own custom ammo. In time, the cost savings will be worth it.
TL;DR, You don't save money, you shoot more for the same money, while get to customize ammo
Write long posts while drunk. What could go wrong? Except missing words and grammar and shit.
Start reloading OP. It's an amazing journey.
man you fucked that post all up.
typed like a reddit fag but not wrong
best priced projectiles ive seen unless you can score free shipping
It will be worth if if you happen to live in a state that requires background checks for ammo purchases and will be stuck there for a while.
t. commiefornian
It is certainly worth it for long range accuracy. You can taylor a load for a specific rifle, figuring out what powder charge and manufacturer works best, as well as variables such as bullet seating depth, and crimp on the bullet. Many long range shooters resize the neck only, extending brass life and having a case that is fitted to that chamber. It's also much cheaper than buying match grade ammo more accurate too if you discover a "pet load" for your rifle.
Casting is very safe, I've read many reloading articles of old timers that get their blood checked and are clean of lead. Just have ventilation. Cast bullets are probably not the way to go for 1000 yard shots. You can cast pretty hard bullets, but there is always the issue of leading when your pushing them at high velocity. Hornady makes good stuff too, just make sure to read, and reread the manual / watch youtube videos before even your first reload. Always go by published data, and start out with the minimum charge stated and work your way up. It's a fun hobby for me. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't do it! I mostly reload pistol, some milsurp rifle rounds. I don't really go for the best accuracy, I use volumetric powder dispensers. I want to get into casting too. I already reload a lot of cast bullets.
And if you're shooting much less 200-300/m averaged out but just want more specialized loads is it worth the investment even if it costs about the same? I mean I see value in learning more about firearms in general
who's washing brass?
I'd say yes. With a bare bones single stage press and other hand tools, it will take you longer to prep and load each cartridge, but what you learn and gain in experience is worth the costs. Once you take your first set of experimental ladder loads to the range and figure out exactly which works best for that barrel/rifle, you'll understand why reloading is cool as shit.
Also, for very expensive rounds, like this 500mag, reloading is the only way to go. Being able to reload opens up many doors for your shooting fun.
same user as 7861. To me, it is. I've made "gallery loads" For 7.5x55 swiss that are on par with .22 recoil. Cost is a factor if you're reloading uncommon or expensive rounds, like 44 mag or 45acp. I need to run the numbers, but I save money on reloading these and .357mag.
Learning to load with .44 magnum
if the manual says my COAL is 1.600" how much variance am I allowed? is over better than under?
Loading match .308, you'll probably save $1 a round, and be able to adjust charges and seating depth to what your rifle shoots best. That kit is fine to get started (is that the deluxe kit?) - you'll need .308 dies.
Ultimately you probably won't save money. You'll end up shooting better ammo two or three times as much for the same price.
I should add, if you plan on loading pistol rounds - consider saving a bit more and getting a progressive press
>Plan to reload 303 Brit
>Buy an RCBS rockchucker
>save up a bucket of lead wheel weights
>plan to buy the rest of the required equipment
>End up spending money on a family trip
I can't keep putting this off. I bought that rockchucker in December.
What're you doing with the wheel weights - just buy some .311 bullets. You're not casting buckets for an enfield, are you?
308 is honestly not a great choice if you are actually going to shoot to 1000 yards. You need a bullet with a high enough BC and you need to get it moving fast. Off the shelf guns don’t tend to have barrels suited to do that in 308. Do some research and try and make sure you’re not going to be transonic with whatever pill you choose to load.
Pic relevant to the topic anyway...just got this Mil Surp food in the mail yesterday.
Bullet weight aside, if you look at the SAAMI OAL you can reference that... How much variance are you talking about? +\- 5 thousandths isn’t going to raise any safety concerns.
Talking out of your ass again, I see
most loaders wash brass to clean it
The COAL is what the data in the manual is based upon. Theoretically, you're better to be over rather than under. If you were to jam the bullet in real deep, when it's fired you'd get dangerous pressures. For practical purposes, being within a few hundredths is good enough.
For precision rifle rounds, I keep it a couple thousandths off the lands, and the seating die Never varies more than .001
> are cost saving per round worth it?
Depend on the round. 9mm is more expensive to reload because the economy of scale on it is so damned good.
Whereas reloading 45-70 is a must. There is a $30 kit out there for 45-70 that is a must for anyone that shoots that caliber. It's even cheaper if you cast your own bullets, you're looking at shooting one of the most expensive rounds for tulammo prices
9mm isnt bad if you source materials on sale and buy in bulk. I shoot for 12c/rnd regularly. Mostly use berrys bullets and titegroup.
Why would you need at this shit to reload? You literally just put another clip in and press the button on the back.
W-Well, actually...
>mfw also planning to cast 30-06 in the future
midwayusa.com
More power to you if you want to cast your own rifle bullets - you'll really be shooting for cheap
saved me 2/3 the cost of 45 colt
Ive gotten 5.56 down to 18 cents a round. 16 cents a round when i have the money to get my powder in bulk.
Do you think autoloaders fuck up the meplat on tipped bullets? They seem pretty fragile compared to something like a Sierra Match King HP(BT)
Buy a box of 50 and find out. The tip is usually pretty solid.
1.6 is pretty close to max.
I seat to 1.59.
You can try some really high BC bullets in 30 cal, but you might not be able to stabilize them or get enough velocity.
Try to get some really heavy bullets- 30-06 is a fast fuggin' round, you might get undesirable leading if you skip powder coat or whatever.
I honestly don't mind, but those ELD style bullets are usually very high BC so I take em when I can.
The tips are somewhat fragile from personal experience. I racked one through in a bolt gun (Very rough) and the tip fell right off.
>that misaki figure
I really need to rewatch that
>Buy a box of 50 and find out
Fine. They seem okay. I just racked a .223 and a 6.5 as hard as I could in an AR15 and AR10. Besides a few scratches in the jacket, the tips are surprisingly intact. Unscientific I know, but I don't feel like cycling a mag's worth of them at the moment to see if any get damaged
Yeah I'm considering it too desu. Was life changing for me when I first saw it summer 2016.
Yep, figured as much. I should grab another box of them ASAP, but now the ELD-X is $30+ dollars a box on brownells...
Midsouth Shooter Supply is the cheapest place I've found to get them. Brownells has $10 off $100 plus free shipping with code M3p
Problem is I need more brass, almost all of my 30-06 is mixed. Maybe 2-300 cases. Midsouth has my back right?
So sort it by headstamp, or get real anal and sort it by headstamp and weight
ammoseek.com
I tried that, I have maybe 40 cases of one Hornady run, then 15 of another, then 5, etc. etc.
All leading to shit SD and ESs.
I should have bought real brass the first time around.
Load it, fireform it, trim it, sort by weight.
What’s the best 308 brass for a hot load? As in brass with highest case capacity
Also, how much of an issue will you get with pressure if the bullet touches the lands?
I want to get 2750+ FPS from m2 ap in an ar10 308 24 barrel. M2 ap is 1.4 long, not sure what length the ogive starts.
Stcik to published loads if you enjoy having a face.
Can someone give me a beginner friendly PDF to download on reloading? I've found a few, but most of them look/sound more like advertisements for their own powder than actual reloading books.
Highest capacity brass means jack shit when loading hot.
Extra case capacity does not automatically equal lower pressure, therefore more powder.
Get a slower burning powder like RL17, or Superform, chuck that shit into new brass, and go penetrate some stuff.
Right, that's the issue.
The best book I've found for beginner reloaders is by far the Lyman 50th edition, many others are basically bullet advertisements (looking at you Hornady).
There are no published loads for m2 ap.
Do you have any M2 bullets?
You can try quickload by entering in the necessary information to see what velocities to get.
I have a few hundred projectiles. Don’t have quickload.
Not a book but youtube.com
Believe the best powder to use would be blc2.
43 grains I believe.
Read that from a forum for an m1a 308 ap load. Not sure what the pressure will be.
try this. For the love of God be careful! I am not sure how the core of the projectile affects pressure. And there are a fuck ton of other factors to consider. Get your velocity and DO NOT ADVANCE UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO CONSIDER A NEW RIFLE.
This is the hottest I was able to get it at normal 308 pressures. No powder on the list even came close.
Yes.
I shoot around 100 .308/month. I pay 30€ in components and 1h in time for 50 rounds. If I bought that ammo it would cost me 60€ and group worse. We are talking 0.1-0.3 MOA groups out of a factory rifle here. My Equipment consists of a Lee Classic Cast and Hornady dies, but I haven't noticed a difference using Lee dies other than that hornady are all around nicer and easier to work with.
For 9x19 I load for 5€/50 instead of 10€/50. Do around 100 rounds/h on a Lee Turret with Lee everything, considering getting a Dillon but the Initial Investment of 1000€ seems a bit too steep for my modest shooting Needs of about 200/month. Still I don't regret loading 9mm, my own loads are more accurare, cleaner and have less recoil.
What's the velocity of m2 ap?
>pressure
>62000 PSI exactly
>.001 inch over seat is a potential kaboom
Mfw
Can you try 42.5 grains of BCL2?
Also, what’s the case capacity on the brass used? Might lower the pressure with a greater capacity, some might be 55 and others 50.
I've always wanted to reload, I've been brass jewing every time I go to the range. will it actually save me money though? or would I be better to just sell the brass?
Seems like a stupid idea, but whatever.
2715fps 30 yards down range, I believe, from a 24 inch k1 Garand.
I only have a german one which is pretty good. Bad if you cannot into german though
rws-munition.de
Hmm higher pressure lower velocity. Yeah the rl17 is a better powder for this.
Found that load on a forum, actual powder was wc846.
Hey while you’re at it
Can you do some calculations for max bore pressure?
I’d like to know that for 300 RUM 26 barrel using that m2ap.
Also 556 with m855a1 or 40 grain vmax 20 and 10 barrel.
458 socom 16 and 10.5
460 rowland 5 and 6.61
And 7.62x39 10.5(golden tiger).
Planning some form 1 suppressors and need to get the hoop stress.
Just buy QL already you cheap fuck
I’m a poor fag college student with no job currently. Spent all money panic buying and tax stamps and form 1 stuff.
you fool, look in the lower right hand corner
53000 PSI is normal pressure for 223 and 308
BLC 2 is much weaker than RL17, just use the latter desu. Superformance might be comparable, but I have no data.
It looks like that RL-17 load was a load at 107% case capacity. Why are you trying to lose your face?
youtube.com
I was looking at the wrong box :^)
From my research compressed loads aren’t inherently dangerous. Also, the COAL is 2.80, could be higher.
Guess it depends on at what coal it hits the rifling in the barrel for what the max COAL you would be able to use.
It's $150 if you are stupid
Ask someone for the files to pirate it
107% is not a serious case fill if the powder is slow enough.
Have you ever reloaded? I have shot ammo with powder coming up to the mouth and so long as it was intended to do that I was fine, well within normal pressures infact. 101% is barely compressed.
np m9
Does anyone here know how bearing surface acts on the velocity and how land seating depth changes pressure?
Greater bearing surface leads to less velocity but how much I’m not sure, same with land seating, if it’s close or touching the lands I’ve read the pressure will spike.
I don't understand by what you mean by the surface question.
QL says that you will get a pressure spike with the same load if you seat into the rifling.
Here's an idea of what I mean
Out of rifling:
And here is the bullet seated into the rifling. Notice how both velocity and pressure has spiked?
We didn't even seat the bullet out any farther, our fictional firearm simply has a throat that is very short. I have a TC 30-06 that is the same way, if I seat to, say, 3.34 OAL, bullets will be into rifling, but 3.3 is fine.
However, some people simply reduce their load and work up if they seat into the rifling, as some bullets are more accurate this way.
I just mean say you have a long bullet with a lot of surface area that contacts the rifling, how does that factor into velocity, m2 ap or some solid copper or even that 247 grain NOE.
? That’s 30-06 though, what kind of pressure spike did it say for that m2 load?
NVM
Saw the second pic.
How do you find the overall length at which the bullet will be in the rifling? Dykem on a bullet in an empty case?
They make a gauge for that, I believe.
It’s really something the manufacturer should list for their barrels.
That is massive spike, almost 10k psi difference.
Edit
It’s really something that should come with your specific barrel.
Order a barrel or a gun?
Well it gives you that info, measured at the factory.
Nope. When I first got my rifle I already had some rounds pre-loaded to 3.34. When I yanked the bolt back, 100% of the time the bullet would stay behind. I started going back to 3.3 and it's A-OK.
If you have a longer bullet and don't want to seat into rifling, you can always seat deeper, just work up.
If you go into rifling, work up from lower, you'll hit your desired velocity (and pressure) much faster.
Frankly I'm not sure that pulled 162 grain AP will gain much from either method of seating.
Yes, he'd need to back off several grains of powder to get the same velocity and pressure as before.
Do you think the first load you posted with r17 is safe?
Will need to see if with that seating it’s hitting the lands though.
I’m using a hardened arms nitrided 4150 24” hbar ar10 barrel, btw
2.8 in a semi auto? Awfully doubtful, but that's why you work up. Please don't take a load I post as something you should settle with! I don't even do that, I just take QL as guidelines.
Yeah it should be.
I won’t, I just want to know if it’s realistic.
Also, do you say that because of mag restrictions?
Because I believe it’s 2.85 that’s the max for my mags. I have the c products 20 rounders.
Yeah, so unless you have a very custom barrel,with shortened lead, you probably will not be running into that issue. Have you tried loading in uncrimped rounds of varying length to see where your lead might start? (Please don't do this without a squib rod)
Man, i dont want to buy extra tools to do a single thing that i will do once. Friggin frackin cragga snatch. Ill just seat a flatbase bullet backwards and use a sharpy
Is that really a thing? I’d imagaine most would want more free bore so you don’t get that pressure spike when you hit the lands.
No, I’m hoping my step father has gauge or knows someone with one, he reloads.
Some folks like a shorter lead as they can seat into the rifling with their bullet or whatever, some ammunition prefers less of a jump into the rifling.
Anyway homos, I am off to bed. Try not to blow yourselves up inshallah.
Alright, someone correct me if im being an idiot, but i think this should work as a ghetto OAL gauge.
>cover a flat base projectile in sharpy
>seat it backwards into an empty case at a long length
>chamber the round
>open the bolt, bullet will stay in rifling
>tap the bullet out with a rod
>set bullet into case to the mark in the sharpy
>measure from base of case to grooves of rifling in the sharpy
Am i a retard or would this get you close?
Oh yea btw you just work back up if you are in rifling. It's not automatically bad, just use less powder for same effect.
Depends on where you want to seat it. Out of rifling? Take the mark and move .02 back/off, lots of guys seem to seat there for whatever reason.
Which one would you say gets higher velocity, usually,
More powder and same pressure no land touching
Less powder same pressure land touching?
don't seat it backwards
It should be the same.
People think that by seating the bullet as far out as they can, without going into rifling, they magically get more powder capacity and more achievable velocity.
With some bullets it does work like this, but personally outside of handgun hollow points I have not seen any such thing. I had an argument with a guy on a similar subject, asking me if he should seat bullets into cannelure or max length with less or more powder. Really the velocity was the exact same at the same pressure, he just used more powder, but it is also possible the bullet was more accurate with less jump.
I’ll probably do it land touching then since the m2 aps I have aren’t in the best condition. Have some dings in them form when pulled. Need all the accuracy I can.
Have some that aren’t like that but that’s for 300 rum and maybe 7.5 Swiss.
start low then. You know what general velocity to expect. A few extra bullets aren't worth your gun/face
gl