What's up Jow Forums. I want to get your opinion on something that I have thought about for awhile now.
If the US Government were to go tyrannical, assuming the all the military branches were to go along with it, would the population be able to defend itself? Now I know that if everyone were lined up and it was a clear 'us' vs 'them' I think that with the US military would win. Which is most peoples initial thought when someones says "the right to bear arms is to protect from government tyranny". What I am asking is that if the military wanted to control a police state in the US, would the population be able to defend themselves?
Yes, the trick is not to waste thousands of fighters on battles, but to go after the leadership.
Landon Jackson
>would the population be able to defend itself? Yes. 99 million gun-owners, many of them ex-military with combat experience. I don't know why we have these threads every day. The government absolutely cannot go full communist against the population because they'd fucking die. That's why all the (((efforts))) are focused on gun confiscation and regulating access to bullets. They can't win an open war. They can win by legislating your rights out little by little so you don't notice.
Tyler Taylor
>Now I know that if everyone were lined up and it was a clear 'us' vs 'them' I think that with the US military would win. t. neverserved
Daniel Morgan
It’s 50/50 The military have recently learned how to react better to guerrilla warfare an citizens don’t typically know how to even do that shit. But if there is at least a couple Jow Forumsommandos willing to go full Unabomber and just start going Rambo on the cops while also being able to teach how to be the exact same then citizens win. But government aren’t dumb enough to just turn tyrannical at the drop of a hat, the widdle away the rights and opposition and before you know it there’s rally’s with all the bells and whistles, no large amounts of violence needed. The only people who would be willing to actually resist the slow indoctrination of the bizarro US would, unironicly, be communists. I’m not talking about the SJW communist but the well read and the well armed, probably burying a couple weapons as we post. They have always been skeptical of the government, and the slight hint of a secret police will make them run in the woods and raise an army of equally radical communists, maybe add some anarchists too
In theory, yes. There are 100 million gun owners in the US, with substantial hardware. It'd be a zombie apocalypse except the zombies could engage you out to 500m.
Realistically though, bread and circuses. So long as the population is well fed and well entertained, they won't rise up in significant numbers.
Matthew Moore
There's no point "ramboing the cops", though. Most cops aren't bad people. Politicians on the other hand would be hunted down like fucking beasts.
>"Ahh yes, I'm going to retire to Martha's Vineyard and fuck more abducted children with my Rothschild friends" *sips wine* >gets doorkicked by Bubba and his buddies who rowed ashore in a fucking houseboat
Jace Wright
Yeah I can agree with politicians being scum, but they’re still protected by EVERY armed forces branch. Unless you can become Batman you’re going to have to kill a few boys in blue, camo, and whatever other color they have to get to the kingpin
>assuming the all the military branches were to go along with it This is a much bigger factor than you're giving credit. From what I've been told about the wargames done to simulate the event of a rebellion in the US, approximately 70% of military personnel would go AWOL immediately, with many more staying behind to act as double agents. This would tip the scales so drastically that the war would be over in less than a week.
Most of the states that have a high rate of firearms ownership also happens to be the ones with the fewest dense urban areas and the most food production. Coincidentally, those all happen to be the states with the highest amount of citizens that would side with rebels, supposedly. All of those big, government supporting cities like NY would get starved out and fall into chaos extremely quickly, spreading the government's peace-keeping resources even more thinly.
The US govt has been chasing down the same small group of goat fucking guerillas in an area smaller than texas for almost two decades now. They don't have a chance even in a fair fight, which a second civil war would definitely not be.
Jaxson Torres
The gun population and potential fighting population outweighs police and military power. They have the advantage of being able to use geurilla tactics right at home. Assassination, homebrew weapons/IEDs, aquiring military/police weapons, defection, etc. I think we have a good shot. So do politicians and pinkos. That's why they wanna ban guns.
Gabriel Wood
Friendly reminder that the government turning against the people is not communism
James Cox
>if
Meanwhile the civil rights act and forced integration started 80 years ago And Americans are almost a minority in their own country
It's already friggin h appened
Owen Watson
It's a numbers game bro. The military just ain't big enough.
William Edwards
Then don't fight the military. Concentrate your efforts on attacking and destroying those who command the military. Attack the families of the military. Destroy the information distribution for the masses. The only time you should be engaging the military is to get them to over react in a populated area in order to provoke them into attacking civilians.
Jordan Stewart
Friendly reminder that one day all communist will be while from the fax of the earth.
wouldnt be much point in murdering the entire us population. theyd have no one left to rule over and collect taxes from.
its the old tried and true statement that, "the average citizen, if joined together with his fellow citizens, has way more power than he could imagine, and the govt fears this above all else. so they do everything they can to keep the citizenry distracted, preoccupied and divided."
Kevin Martinez
Friendly reminder, the only people who have been turning the government tyrannical have been communists. And neocon Jews, of course, who are just Trotskyists.
Grayson Turner
You can’t just metal gear your way through a police state with no training in being as operator as you described. You have to engage in a lot of bad shit to win At least Karl Marx could spell you illiterate dolt, do you really think you could fight communists?
Levi Wilson
The problem is that confiscation would start with law abiding middle class whites because they know poor blacks would riot all over the country if one of theirs was shot.
Adam Green
>homebrew weapons/IEDs,
We would be doing stuff like building drones and cruise missiles in garages. They’d be ugly and slow, but there would be a lot of them, and they’d be cheap. Eventually, enough would get through to make a difference.
Jordan Nelson
Found the retard
Liam Ross
>What I am asking is that if the military wanted to control a police state in the US What military people are going to sign up for that?
Evan Long
>implying a slew of them wouldn’t just let us go after them I would even go as far as expecting armed forces to just abandon the politicians
Leo Clark
Stop blaming civil rights for corrupt politicians letting in waves of illegals.
Nathaniel Rogers
>And neocon Jews, of course, who are just Trotskyists. Trotskyists creep me out man. Those guys are the most radical socialists I've ever seen.
W O R L D W I D E C O M M U N I S M
Adam Sanders
>Tom the war lord. so soon do we forget our fallen heros.
This is going to blow your mind OP: the military is the population.
No, they aren't. At state level and below (the levels that implement policy) they have a bodyguard and maybe a couple police standing watch.
Brandon Jones
So how much do you get paid to data mine Jow Forums?
Eli Richardson
This exactly. In a conventional slug fest, our military easily wins. Don’t fight like that. Tie up infrastructure and emergency resources. Forest fires are good. Putting holes in train tracks is good. Taking out patches of roads on critical transportation arteries will at least divert massive amounts of logistical movement. Get some burners and start “prank calling” SWAT teams on all the anti-funners in your life. Avoid shooting wars at all costs but absolutely turn military backed confiscation into a giant boondoggle.
Gabriel Roberts
Why would they? they already have the population fighting each other. But if you're askin about the remote possiblity of it? well most likely yeah. I mean Ukraine, Cuba, Vietnam, when the people actually fight in the same team against the goverment the chances of winning are usually high. unless you already divided the people against each other... oh wait.
Juan Richardson
This. Idiots that talk about cruise missiles and nukes think the government would want to rule over a crater. The point is control. You can't control a population as well armed and spread out as the United States.
I saw how much was devoted to chasing Eric Frein, and he was one guy with a bolt action rifle who left his identifying evidence behind.
Grayson Long
Yea I'm sure you've been thinking about this for a long time you absolute fag
If the government went fully tyranny in the current state of the US they would lose hard. 100,000,000 gun owners, backed by an additional 200,000,000 other U.S. citizens who can no longer hide behind the illusion that the government will protect them.
Chase Jones
Imagine a blue whale fighting a bunch of sharks that physically inside of its body tearing things up.
The insurgents would be behind every line, inside of every perimeter, and blocking every line of supply.
The fuel runs out, most military installations are overrun before they can create a coherent defense, and no unit can break through the overwhelming numbers to link up into a combined, unified force that can protect itself.
The hard part is getting everybody on your side and coordinated. No government can survive if literally the entire civilian population is trying to overthrow them. A war machine needs civilians and safe areas to function.
Caleb Campbell
Fuck I used to go to college right across from there. The short answer is you can't go full left wing death squad right away. You just gotta start slowly piling on regulations and the people won't notice until it's too late. Unfortunately we live in a timeline where this is possible.
James Hughes
>do you really think you could fight communists? I know I could kill communists.
Fighting is one thing, and is well discussed above.
Anoher way they would lose is if everyone simply went full Ghandi mode. Simply stop work, go to the shops, panic buy all the food, then sit at home watching whatever television was still broadcasting via automation.
Of couse, there would be subversive shits what would cross the picket line and still work, but they would be a minority. All that's needed is that every single civilian simply stays at home for 1 week. Nothing that's not automated would work. The longer it's left, the more likely it is to break permanently.
No gubbinment would outlast the week. Of course, the anarchy that followed would be something else...
So in agreement with I feel like people rarely talk about how much of the military infrastructure is also maintained by civilians. How much of the manufacturing on guns, aircraft parts, radar components, GPS systems, and on and on are done by contractors. If these contractors, again civilians, started fucking shit up with their industrial knowledge, the government's capacity to wage war is significantly decreased. Think of Blackhat/DEFCON, all that brainpower angrier and busier than a hornet's nest working to shut down any and every system they can get their fingers into, and they have the added benefit of having worked on these systems professionally for decades. What about when steel mills, or CNC shops, or equipment calibrators, or MRE cooks all start engaging in passive or active resistance.
Arguably the US' greatest military strength is their supply chain management in support of maneuver warfare. A civil war immediately begins fucking up the heart of that supply chain, without which maneuver warfare becomes impossible to consistently maintain. Why does a bomb maker in pakistan have to fear the US? Because the US can send a message to a base to a UAV to send a hellfire onto a hut in a matter of minutes. Every aspect of that process would be screwed up during a civil war.
Jack Sanchez
Can you guys fuck off with these threads already?
Chase Allen
The US government turned on us over a century ago.
Jonathan Johnson
But the US government is the people...
Connor Thompson
ok. I'm not even a Burger, so I should fuck off first.
>implying 98.9 million will rise up 99% of the population are lemmings. They will not risk their pleb buglife for a revolution, with that said, revolutions can happen without the lemmings
Justin Young
If the government went fully tyranny at the current moment things would not be comfortable for anyone. I find it hard to imagine even leftist swallowing a complete suspension of all of our rights
What wargames are they talking about in these pics?
Liam Ward
Watch Brazil(1985)
Ryan Nguyen
I think the key is to avoid contact with the military, at least as much as possible, in the beginning. Don't provoke them. Instead, target the politicians and families first as well as lawyers and those in positions of power. Leave the mil, alone long enough to show them that we don't want a war, but a cleansing of the graft and corruption and they will be much less inspired to attack us civil militia types.Knocking out the command and control would be a tertiary move, in my eyes. Must go now, a powerful knock is at my door........
Landon Bell
in the event of tyranny mass losses are expected. in all wars there is collateral damage. active resistance is expected to be proactive and do things that will kills civilians if it means removing politicians/ military/ law enforcement/ park rangers/ meter maids/ mail men
as a result guns are only used for direct confrontations or in instances in which they are expected like storming a nuclear power plant to cause a melt down to cause a mass exodus to cause a break down in the chain of command as civilians needing shelter and with no jobs to pay for it or food over time the government will have to purge to many to fast and the confusion allows for more targets to be taken down... or something its not like i put years of thought into this
Alexander Cook
theoretical government projections
Jeremiah Sanchez
Just as the SAA disintegrated when confronting immediate civil war, so would the U.S. armed forces in a similar scenario.
Most who join the armed forces want to contribute by killing assholes elsewhere in the world, not their neighbors.
People that don't understand the U.S. Armed Forces are the parties that most see DoD personnel rising up against the civilian population during any civil conflict.
It is a false presumption, and the U.S. military is a paper threat against their own population that most service-members rightfully identify with.
This desu. People in the big, liberal cities often forget where there food comes from. If those agricultural areas rebelled, combined with a few random insurgents knocking out power and comms to said big cities (The US power grid is SEVERELY undefended) then the govt would have another colossal, unignorable problem on their hands BESIDES the fact half the country is rebelling.
>What I am asking is that if the military wanted to control a police state in the US, would the population be able to defend themselves?
We wouldn't have to. The government wouldn't be able to control the entirety of the US, much less prevent any kind of insurgency from moving relatively freely throughout population areas. We have on average 1.5 LEOs per 1000 citizens, and about as many active duty and reserve personnel. So that's 3 per 1000 people who could potentially enforce a real police state. But of that 2-3 million about half or more are laundry specialists, admin clerks, supply clerks, staff officers, commo nerds, truck drivers, armorers, cooks, linguists etc.
So the only way a "tyrannical US government" could exist would be with, at the very least, the apathy of the 80% of the population who just want to go to work, take care of their family, and take in popular entertainment and will also pay taxes and contribute to GDP.
You can't maintain that apathy once you begin using the same TTPs we use against insurgents and transnational jihadists in the ME. Every time you schwack Joe Bob, the facilitator for the Jaysh al Alabama, with a hellfire while he's eating lunch at Arby's or shopping at Kroger or while he's at home in his apartment in Mobile, and you kill a bunch of bystanders you lower the threshold for discontent for the masses.
The effect is multiplied when you do the same to Keith or Jamal who are financiers or facilitators or cell leaders in LA, NYC, Dallas, Denver etc. because you're more likely to kill even more people.
So the only way for the USG to "win" is to use limited engagement, because the literature bears out the argument that over committing to kinetic action sees a significant blow back effect for the COIN forces. So that means you'll probably see about twice the police presence as you normally would with maybe some step up in targeted tactical deployments/HVT snatches.
Henry Garcia
>assuming the all the military branches were to go along with it the basis of your argument is already flawed. a vast majority of soldiers won't fire on their countrymen, their friends, their family. They would join the side of the civilians.
Carter Smith
Maybe if inflation hits and the army isnt paid well
Gavin Peterson
they already have.
Jordan Martinez
That is a good looking cat.
Oliver Allen
No, you are just a sensitive snowflake.
Lincoln Cooper
Our military did 9/11 over budget cuts. The military is not your patriotic friend.
They went from looking at a 60% cut to iirc a 300% boost in their accounts and programs.
Jacob King
>What I am asking is that if the military wanted to control a police state in the US, would the population be able to defend themselves?
yes but boil a frog slowly, increasing taxation, diminish property rights, normalise abortion and execution, increase jail population of young males, family law show trials etc
Bentley Fisher
we seem to be getting a lot of these threads recently, you might want to cool it mr. atf
Blake Cook
Wrong. If I saw the police knocking on my neighbors doors to take their guns ill start shooting them in the back from my balcony. Its what traitors deserve.
Nathaniel Brooks
This.
Target the important people AND their families.
Hudson Russell
They can't do it effectively yet, and they know that, so they are trying to disarm us before they really show their hands.
Camden Foster
Who will probably be in underground shelters.
Jonathan Peterson
Cities in the US have about 3 days of food supply. Shut down the main roads, knock out the power so the water and sewage treatment can't work, and the Democrats will start dying in short order.
Elijah Mitchell
>Would the population be able to defend themselves
>Not considering U.S. armed defectors >Not considering MASSIVE amounts foreign aid to rebels trying to co-opt the movement trying to install a friendly government
Yeah we're fine. You think Norinco is banned now? Not when there's a U.S. civil war. Arms of all kinds are gonna flood the market. Those fancy MRAPS the cops got will finally be in an environment they were built for.
Brandon Young
The clear choice is guerrilla warfare. The US is a big place. Lots of wilderness, places to hide your caches. The objective is likely to be achieved with subterfuge. Some skirmishes might pop up around DC to distract from the fact that they're planting explosives in the congressional building. Then it all goes up in flames the next time those fucks call congress into session. Same shit for other government branches.
Carson Sullivan
Serious question: are you willing to join a militia to stop the hordes of beakers currently moving toward the US in a "caravan" despite what the government's plan is to deal with them? They're on their way as we speak. Google "Honduras Caravan"
Jordan Phillips
>*Beaners Don't judge me, I'm mobileposting.
Alexander Peterson
>"tyrannical US government" could exist would be with, at the very least, the apathy of the 80% of the population
You just described every tyrannical government ever most people are sheep.
Juan Foster
>We have on average 1.5 LEOs per 1000 citizens Try 1 LEO per 27,500
With a good bulk of them also being military reservists/guardsmen
Jonathan Hernandez
The (((leadership))).
Nolan Jackson
if there was a n open insurgency like that, there would be a much larger resistance than what you would think. the gangs, dope runners, mafias, all that kind of stuff already has a pretty decent corrupt cop on call and can find shit out for you. they would be under serious shit with a govt gone mad like this exercise.
>Assuming all the military branches were to go along with it. That isn't a justifiable assumption, the US government itself speculates that the majority of the US military would defect outright. The free faction of the US would end up owning a majority of military hardware, it occupies every major center of industrial and agricultural production excepting a few isolated highly power, import, and industry reliant bootlicker cities.
It wouldn't just be a victory for free Americans, it would be a slaughter of tyrants, they'd not have a prayer.
Ok - then let's think differently how would you achieve a state where the government CAN take full control?
Increase poverty - more people dependent on the state + less money to stuff into savings, guns and storage.
Gun exist - slowly regulate them and tax the living shit out of them. In about two decades this problem solves itself
Consolidate corporations/businesses - the bigger the better. This can also be done by legislation.
Regarding military and police I wouldn't worry too much. Whoever thinks a dictatorship worries about soldiers and police officers leaving the force never lived in one before.
There are simple ways to make sure that your forces are loyal to you - this costs effectiveness, true but they will enforce the will of their paymasters.
Dominic Fisher
All these talk about rebels and shit, but WHAT would have to happen to make Joe from LA think that Jason from NY is his sworn enemy and have to die in worst ways imaginable?
Americans are too comfy with their current life, and goverment have no intention to fuck up its own people
John Powell
Just a few more school shootings and government will take away your guns while the majority of your fellow Americans would happily applaud it.
The fuck would you do then?
Juan Ramirez
See, this is the scale of uninterest in US, people are too proud too trusting in their goverment to even think for a second they could harm them
It would take a miracle series of fuckups by the goverment to get barely to the point of armed uprisings
Adrian Sullivan
The ones in their imagination.
Christopher Fisher
They would easily import it. Liberal cities are where most of the wealth is in.
Justin Wright
I'd like you to show me these us government speculations.
Bentley Garcia
No. Leadership of whatever guerilla organization would be taken out/imprisoned extremely quickly. The US government has the ability to tap into any electronic communication, and long before it there would be NSA files on local dissidents.
Brandon Taylor
soft targets. Families of soldiers, pilots, commanders, politicians. After that, the factories that will be producing supplies for the government. A factory has it's own full army of employees and families. Then you got big corporations, infrastructure, and let's not forget power stations. Seriously, if it were all out civil war, it's going to messy however you spin it unless the resistance have no will or drive to push back hard. Don't forget the US has lots of foreign enemies and nations that want to see the US unstable. So expect to receive some sort of aid from those groups, either soldiers, training, or weapons. I really wouldn't be surprised if we start to see some anti-air/tank weapons from coughcoughchinaorrussiacoughcough. Sooner or later, the US government will have to really crack down on the population, at that point, it'll come down to how well that population will take that. If everyone turns into the british and welcome authoritarian rule, then the resistance will probably crumble through attrition. If the population is all for full force big brother, then the government will fall eventually.
Lincoln King
How would the cities without ports import it?
Jaxson Wright
Everyone swallows it if it happens slowly enough. Which is exactly what has been happening. The more important question we should all ask is why?
Parker Rogers
>assuming the all the military branches were to go along with it, But they wouldn’t, especially in today’s climate. You’re probably looking at at least a 25% defection rate, and that’s everyone. Actual war fighters is probably a lot higher.
Most major cities are costal. The rest could get it through land routes.
Nathan Morales
Luxury people will not give up their luxury lives that easily. You would have to kill a lot of them before they start bunkering All hypothetical of course, for a school project.
