hey Jow Forums /v/ here
I get that rifle bullets do more damage than pistol bullets because they have bigger range but why do shotgun bullets do more damage than rifle bullets if shotgun bullets are a lot smaller?
Is it because the blast is stronger?
go back to /v/
sage in all fields, cunt
>I get that rifle bullets do more damage than pistol bullets because they have bigger range but why do shotgun bullets do more damage than rifle bullets if shotgun bullets are a lot smaller?
Hooked on phonics and a thesaurus would do you wonders.
Rifle rounds are generally more powerful because they move faster.
Shotgun buckshot/birdshot is less powerful than nearly any intermediate rifle cartridge.
Video game designers don't care about reality, they have to balance video games.
that's not true you can kill almost anything with a shotgun
The pellets are smaller but there are more of them. It isn't complicated.
While what you say is true, the way you go about explaining it is not very efficient.
Fren from /v/ let me tell you why they go faster when they come out of a rifle. In a rifle cartridge, pretty much everything is bigger in most cases. More propellant, and a longer barrel allow the gases to build up behind the bullet as it's travelling through the barrel, reaching higher "Muzzle Velocity". You can see this effect demonstrated when firing the same pistol 9mm out of a PCC instead of a glock or other handgun. They are bigger, and that helps cause more damage, but that isn't the main reason why they do more damage. It's mostly the velocity they are travelling at, like this user said.
Unless you're shooting slugs out of your shotgun, you aren't shooting a single projectile. You're shooting hundreds of smaller pellets that spread out over time, one thing video games almost always get wrong is that spread. Normally, shotguns spread out in video games way sooner than in real life. Like WAY WAY sooner. The reason they do more damage is because those pellets are still coming out at an incredibly high velocity, and there are an asston of them, there is a lot of powder behind them in shell when they get fired. Think 1 hundred BB's going fast enough to pierce fairly deep into your body, VS 1 bullet that is definitely going to cause a lot of damage and pierce very deep into your body if not go all the way through in terms of rifle cartridges.
Less projectiles if you're shooting buck, but same principle, and they are heavier. That will cause a fuckton of damage, due to the speed they are traveling at, their weight, and the amount of them.
Go back to /v/, but before you go, I'll explain the answer to your question.
Shotguns fire "shells" which are just a bunch of tiny metal balls or beads that spread out as they travel further from the muzzle of the gun. Video games misrepresent this in order to balance game mechanics. A 12 gauge buck shot shell will become about the size of a hula-hoop about 35 yards out. In video games, shooting someone that far away with a shotgun won't even touch them.
Shotguns don't do "more" damage, but they are harder to miss with from that range. Since the beads have become the size of a hula-hoop, your target has to be just kind of in that hoop to get hit. But a rifle or handgun bullet into your chest or stomach is way more fatal. Shotgun shells do "fall off" after some time, but video games make it happen way earlier than in real life, in order to balance mechanics.
In video games, if you blast someone point blank with a shotgun, you can afford to be innacurate because the shell spreads right? Well not in real life. If you fire 12 gauge, the spread of the beads 10 yards out with be the size of a quarter. They haven't spread that far apart yet, barely at all.
TLDR video games misrepresent gun mechanics in order to balance gameplay and make it more fun. No one is surprised.
god damn this must be bait
I've been hit by a pellet once at about 100 yards or so, I worked at a shotgun range with two different trap fields, one lower and one higher and I was reloading the clays on one far away while someone was doing lower field. It stung a bit but didn't bruise or anything.
What do you think would have happened to you at 35 yards, fren?
birdshot =/= buckshot
Shotguns do as much damage as a rifle would at their effective ranges, if not more.
Shotguns really only damage birds
Maybe if were talking birdshot at longer ranges.
THIS BELONGS ON FUCKING GAMING U DUMB PIECE OF SHIT
He's not asking about DOOM, he's asking about firearms in real life. Calm your titties, hold your deportation button back for a second. We can give this soylent child a nugget of knowledge.
I know people that have been shot by memepumpguns, they're fine. It's an absolute obsolete platform when it comes to taking down human beans.
Yeah I shoot trap and skeet more than anything else Jow Forums related and that was birdshot, almost certainly 20 gauge. Only newbies use 12 gauge to shoot skeet/trap/wobbles.
I know bud. Target load blah blah.
I'm not that stupid damn
Shotguns/shotties are mostly a gun for bad ass style like if you dual wield it. Thats if you want MAJOR damage as much as possible.
Rifles our if im feeling like sniper style, 1 shot will usually do the trick.
Pistol obviously is weakest but still good in my opinion.
Tell that to the guy on the right.
>5 yards
Try again.
Probably took a whole clip of ammo though
Yeah I was gonna say not a fucking chance that was 5 yards away. Unless the shooter was shooting a shotgun that didnt have a barrel screwed into the receiver.
5 yards out would be a coin sized spread.
Consider the possibility that he was shot with a sawed-off.
A good rule of thumb for spread from a shotgun is 1" per yard of range. Obviously, this varies based on choke used and barrel length.
>clip
CCCLLLLLIIIPPPP!
Go back to /v/ you fucking sperg
Yeah, as in the clip of shotgun bullets dummy
> i get that...
> proceeds to demonstrate that he doesnt "get" anything
F=MxV.
its as simple as that.
object with the the same mass, moving at the same velocity ALL deliver the same force to the target.
pistol rounds generally move at less than 1/4 the velocity of a 5.56 round, and unless they are 40, 10mm or 45s, they weigh less.
i would say "do the math", but obviously math is not your strong suit.
shotguns drop LOTS of mass moving at respectable velocities, but their main advantage is that youre much more likely to hit thanks to the spread.
dont get your "wisdom" from vidya gaems faggot.
these piles of shit are always written by, for and about soyboys and NoGunz.
saged.
> hundreds of smaller pellets
seriously?
unless youre talking bird shot (#3 and smaller) there aint "hundreds"
> a lot of powder
shotgun shells contain LESS powder than most centerfire rifle cartridges. (except the poodle shooters like the 5.56)
> spread doesnt happen at close range
bullshit.
since youre talking about birdshot obviously, the spread is dramatic and happens right out of the muzzle.
#6 dove loads spread like a motherfucker, reaching about a 3 foot diameter within 25 yards
smaller pellets have lower sectional density and are thus spread by air resistance at an alarming rate
BB also spreads like a motherfucker since its generally steel shot and thus has a much lower sectional density
i probably lost you, so ill explain.
smaller (and thus llighter) lead pellets and ALL steel pellets have a much lower individual mass and much higher surface area, so the air splits them and spreads them, while heavier pellets tend to resist these forces and stay closer together.
birdshot is NOT for self defense or taking large game, they are for hitting birds on the wing.
outside "contact" range (less than 10 yards) birdshot is generally non-lethal against humans, and even inside that range, they often dont get the job done.
if you want to pretend to be an expert, at least try to get your shit straight.
left image is birdshot, and you can get that kind of spread at 10 yards
right image is ALSO birdshot, and 5 yards looks about right.
seriously, if you have never patterned a shotgun, stop talking.
>since youre talking about birdshot obviously, the spread is dramatic and happens right out of the muzzle.
#6 dove loads spread like a motherfucker, reaching about a 3 foot diameter within 25 yards
smaller pellets have lower sectional density and are thus spread by air resistance at an alarming rate
Your post has lost any and all understanding of the fact that I am trying to communicate with a nigger almost entirely preoccupied with video games, and gaining all of his knowledge from video games. I'm using very simple terms and logic for him to understand. Have you ever played any video games in your life? If you have then you'd know how video games portray shotguns, I'm speaking in reference to that you crayon eater.
simplifying shit to the point where you are simply dead ass wrong doesnt help anyone, and marks your posts as trash.
any jackhole can google BB shot shells (your particular example) and see that there are NOT "hundreds" of pellets inside.
there are ~50 pellets in a BB shell
when youre so grossly wrong on such an obvious detail, everything else you say can be immediately discarded.
>seriously?
unless youre talking bird shot (#3 and smaller) there aint "hundreds"
You pick it up later in your not so well thought out post, but yeah, I'm talking about birdshot.
>shotgun shells contain LESS powder than most centerfire rifle cartridges. (except the poodle shooters like the 5.56)
To video game boy here, it's still a lot.
>bullshit.
since youre talking about birdshot obviously, the spread is dramatic and happens right out of the muzzle. #6 dove loads spread like a motherfucker, reaching about a 3 foot diameter within 25 yards smaller pellets have lower sectional density and are thus spread by air resistance at an alarming rate
I don't know if you noticed, but I'm talking in relation to video games here. That's lost on you though, cause you have no sense of nuance whatsoever. You are entirely preoccupied with getting the 1 UP on someone who you feel is inferior to you intellectually.
>birdshot is NOT for self defense or taking large game, they are for hitting birds on the wing. outside "contact" range (less than 10 yards) birdshot is generally non-lethal against humans, and even inside that range, they often dont get the job done. if you want to pretend to be an expert, at least try to get your shit straight.
I literally posted pictures of niggers getting shot with birdshot at sub 10 yards. You are fundamentally retarded if you don't understand that I'm speaking DIRECTLY in line with all of your "except x" refutations.
>Shotguns fire "shells"
Shotguns fire shot, as it says on the name
I'm speaking in generalities, and in simple language so that he can understand. I may be incorrect about the exact number of projectiles inside of a shot shell, but that doesn't the larger point that I'm insinuating in my post. You're just buttmad over relatively irrelevant details.
read a book nigger
Why does she have so many arms?
lol, lern2physics m8
Force is not mass multiplied by velocity. That is momentum. Force is mass * acceleration.
> not so well thought out..
i am correct, you are incorrect.
thats all there is to it.
> B-b-but.. vidya gaems!!
being wrong is not excused because your talking to an ignorant kid.
he will remain ignorant, or worse, believe your incorrect statements, spreading the disease of stupidity like herpes at burning man.
> you want to feel superior
no, i want CORRECT information to be disseminated, not bullshit, not fuddlore, and not the perversion of facts CNN prefers.
> no sense of nuance
nuance... is that the word you use for "completely dead ass wrong, pulled right out of my ass, 100% counterfactual information"?
then i suppose i dont have much use for "nuance", because i prefer my facts to contain actual facts.
Thank you OP for demonstrating the stupidity of this board circa 2018.
It is, dumbass.
>I get that rifle bullets do more damage than pistol bullets because they have bigger range but why do shotgun bullets do more damage than rifle bullets if shotgun bullets are a lot smaller?
It's called "buckshot". If it can kill a buck..
in this circumstance, Force = Mass x Deceleration
Force: energy delivered to target
Mass: the weight of the object striking the target
Velocity: the speed the object is moving when striking the target.
dont get picayune with me.
we are discussing the inverse, you cunt.
Okay so you're debating with the following:
>Unless you're shooting slugs, you aren't shooting a single projectile out of your shotgun.
>Video games normally get the spread of shotguns incorrect.
>Shotgun shot comes out of the barrel at high velocities
>Rifle bullets are faster because there is more propellant and more gas builds up inside of the barrel when the gun is fired, the barrel is longer and causes this to occur
>rifle bullets are bigger and weight more and that helps cause more damage, but the reason rifle bullets do more damage is velocity
Muzzle velocity is not fuddlore. None of these things are fuddlore. YOU are fuddlore. You fucking ingrate.
> finally delivers accurate information
good job. was that so hard?
each pallet in 00 buck shot has the same muzzle energy as 9x19 pistol rounds
barrel length = 61 cm
bore Constriction in micrometres = 889
percentage of shot in a 76 cm circle at 37 m = 70%
modern powder in a shotgun burns completely in 25 to 36 cm barrels
>tldr many games give shotguns a very short range compared to what is possable
All of that was in my original post, fuckhead. Which you completely and utterly disqualified as containing anything but fuddlore. You are speaking in absolutes and that is the problem. You said that EVERYTHING in my post was essentially fake news. The reason I pointed out that you were debating with those things, is to prove that all your doing is nitpicking and hammering over and over again on small inaccuracies.
Kill yourself.
I don't know if you notice it, but you do this over and over again and assume that I'm not talking about your exceptions.
>youre talking bird shot (#3 and smaller)
Yes, I am, thank you for noticing.
>except the poodle shooters like the 5.56
And here you are explaining that there are exceptions to the rule.
>#6 dove loads spread like a motherfucker, reaching about a 3 foot diameter within 25 yards
I've clearly pointed out that video games have the spread MUCH sooner than this.
>"contact" range (less than 10 yards)
Posted photos of injuries occuring at contact range.
Force is still equal to mass multiplied by the acceleration of the projectile (F=m*a). Multiplying mass and velocity just gets you the momentum, which is much different than the force. This is basic high school physics here.
> completely disqualified
i specifically pointed out areas where you were simply dead ass wrong.
being this blatantly wrong on easily verified details is what disqualifies the rest of your post.
this is how the human brain works.
when you pontificate on a subject (as you did), but get the facts just plain wrong, the rest of your assertions are immediately discarded by the listener.
only the absolutely ignorant and deliberately buffelheaded will accept your assertions (both correct and incorrect alike) without question, because he has no interest of checking your facts. this same cocksucker will then repeat your claims to others (with the usual embellishments and lazy mistakes) to another retard who will inevitably share this "
wisdom" with another dimwit (naturally adding his own stupidity to the collection) until finally it makes its way to capital hill and congress passes a law banning shotguns because "they are too powerful and fire hundreds of BB (Baby Blaster) pellets at impossible velocities putting holes the size of hula hoops through innocent children.
if anyone should extinguish their light, it should be you, just dont use a gun. you have already made them look bad enough in this thread.
Physics don't care about what you define as positive or negative. Therefore, there is no such thing as deacceleration. Just acceleration in a different direction from what you define as "forward".
In collisions (as we are dealing with here (bullet hitting object)), we don't use force to predict the outcome. We use collision physics, and within that we define the collisions as elastic, semi-elastic or completely unelastic. In order to define the collision we look at wether the momentum is conserved. Once we figure that out we take a look at which object has the largest momentum in order to determine who will "win" the collision. What object will affect the other and to what degree. Seeing as the target is stationary, it has zero momentum. So the result is entirely up to the projectile (bullet) and its momentum. The projectile with the most amount of momentum will affect the target the most. Thus a large caliber bullet will affect more than a shotgun pellet. But momentum can "stack up". So if you have x times pellets, they can eventually be just as effective as a bullet.
Acceleration does play a part, I will give you that. However the effect of acceleration (deacceleretion as you say) by gravity and by wind resistance is not nearly enough to affect the practical outcome of a bullet versus a shotgun pellet.
There is no formula that says F=m*v. Get your shit togheter. We have newtons 2. law which says F=m*a, and the formula for momentum p=m*v.
Fuck off.
Most of my "dead ass wrong areas" were simply due to you not understanding that I'm specifically talking about the exceptions to the rule that you are presenting. As outlined here
and what happens when a fast moving mass impacts with another object and decelerates?
EXACTLY THE SAME PROCESS in reverse.
its the same formula.
>Multiplying mass and velocity just gets you the momentum, which is much different than the force. This is basic high school physics here.
Kinetic energy quadruples every time speed is doubled..
dios mio...
es el goblino americano
Yes, because KE= 0.5*m*v^2. The user I replied to said that F=m*v which is completely wrong, momentum (p) = m*v.
Is he kill?
Go back to fucking /v/ you fucking soyboy faggot
>implying that you can't
What bait is this?
Some wise ass has never heard of slugs.
it all depends on what ammo youre using, for any type of gun