What is the philosophy behind what makes a good SHTF weapon?

To top it off, i'm not against using steel case in CQB in a 20" barrel. Have done it in class and love it. Fuck that jump though

But i do keep 60 rounds of 77 SMK in a fox tactical recon buttpack attached to a Crye JPC

>What are some boxes it needs to tick?
1. appeals to autists
2. has features nobody will use
3. ammo is cheap so they can buy 5000 rounds of it on their carwash money
4. not too heavy so they can use it for more than 5 minutes at the range without their arms giving out
5. easy to chamber with girl fingers
6. can be easily modified into garbage with tapco and airsoft accessories
7. not too expensive just in case it gets stolen out of the back of their '95 Dodge Stratus

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regardless, if steel case 7.62 through an AK is shooting 2moa, and that's "totally shit bro", than I'm sorry I insulted you Mr Botkin

Honestly .223 and 7.62x39 are similar just from watching that vid. Still

>muh capacity
>muh lighter 223 ammo
>just hit the CNS bro

>gun does precisely what it was designed to do
>IT'S INACCURATE LADIES AND GENTS
>NOT A SOLDIER'S GUN
>I uh, left the evidence at home...
Stop posting any time.

Homo

Why the ammo avaibility meme?
If you find ammo you most likely find a firearm chambered in it not far away.

Do people think that life is a video game where there are boxes of ammo lying around but no weapons nearby?

If you could git gud, a sling would be even better

I was just at walmart and they had .223 but not a single .223 rifle. Are you seriously thinking when stores get slammed in panics that people who even own guns wont be grabbing that stuff up? I own ammo for a weapon I don't have. It was just too cheap to pass up figured I could sell it at some point.

Well i live in Europe and you literally can't buy ammo for a firearm you don't have.

>Well I live in Europe
well there's your issue

It depends on what your plan is for if SHTF. It's highly situational. Are you going to be moving around a lot? Are you in built up areas like cities and suburbs, or in forests? If you are moving more, you probably want something lighter and more compact. If you have a fall back location with food and water, maybe you can get away with something heavier and bulkier.

What do you see yourself using the weapon for? If it's for hunting, it needs to be suitable for the game you can expect to find in the area you'll be in. You're not going to hunt Moose with a .22lr, and you're not going to hunt squirrels and rabbits with a .300 Win Mag. If it's for self-defense, who do you expect to be encountering that you'd need to defend yourself from, and what would be effective for fighting them? Will they have armor or vehicles? What ranges are you fighting at?

Whatever you are using, it needs to be reliable and easy to maintain, so more simple designs are probably better for a lot of things. If it's a gun, what's your plan for ammunition in the long run? Fancy rounds like the 6.5 Grendel or that new .224 Valkyrie may be extremely versatile, but what's your plan for when you run out of it?

I think having a bow and arrow would be good for hunting, and an intermediate rifle like an AK or an AR would be good for self-defense. The AK is a good example of a rifle that's easy to maintain and easy to get ammo for, and the 7.62x39 is also good for mid-size game like whitetail.

>>>vid
>>explanation of why that vid is bullshit
>.223 and 7.62x39 are similar just from watching that vid
.223 has the advantage in:
- range
- accuracy
- terminal effect
- penetration of body armor
- weight
- magazine size for equivalent capacity

>>gun does precisely what it was designed to do
You mean be cheap to manufacture in mid-20th-century Soviet factories, and be suitable to pass around to communist revolutionary scumbags who can't shoot accurately anyway? The whole AK platform, cartridge and rifle, is primitive and inferior.

With all that said, both 5.56 and 7.62 are designed for fire-and-move tactics. In other words, they were chosen on the assumption that most rounds will be expended on suppressive fire, which further supposes that resupply will be readily available after soldiers blow their stock in a single engagement. If you're going to shoot to kill every time, you're probably better served by one battle rifle round than two assault rifle rounds. On top of that there's an underlying assumption that the assault rifle isn't the only weapon in the unit, and longer-range, harder-hitting weapons will be available for anything the assault rifle can't handle.

There are good cases to be made for deer rifles in 270, 30-06, or 308, for pistol-caliber-carbine/pistol combinations, for shotguns (especially taking the possibility of drones under consideration), and for 22 LR. What's theoretically ideal is less important than what you're able to afford and become skilled in. A scoped bolt-gun is wasted on someone who never practices shooting beyond 100 yards, and a PCC/pistol combo is silly for someone whose main practice is hunting. If you want to survive, you'll probably team up with people, and a variety of arms will help deal with more situations.

I shot a can with a .223. The lizard inside was gone and there was a bloody exit hole.

Long term sustainability (reliability, parts availability, etc)
Ammo availability (avoid wildcat cartridges or rare stuff like Swedish Mauser or Valkyrie)
Versatility (no 24 inchers unless you're planning to pull a Sarajevo. Otherwise you need both entry capability and range depending on your environment)
Appearance (try to make your gun look unassuming. An attractive looking gun attracts attention)

>Shitty reiley defense ak
>not milled chinese or century arms

6.5 being common?

>Ammo availability (avoid wildcat cartridges or rare stuff like Swedish Mauser or Valkyrie)
Everything has two sides to it. With an unusual cartridge, nobody's likely to steal your ammo without your gun, or your gun without your ammo.
>Appearance (try to make your gun look unassuming. An attractive looking gun attracts attention)
A fine gun may get you an offer to join a good team. A tacticool gun may intimidate would-be attackers.

SHTF more likely means civil war than any other possibility. Even after a disaster not directly precipitated by political conflict, people won't lose interest in having a government, and in having it serve their interests. This means that either order will be restored promptly, or the chaos will be sustained by large forces in conflict with one another.

Creedmoor and 39 are also fairly available

>nobody's likely to steal your ammo without your gun, or your gun without your ammo.

if someone is stealing your ammo you're probably dead or a retard.

>SHTF weapon?
"SHTF" is a shitty scenario description, as what people can imagine for such a situation can cover anything from sitting back in your community after a large scale natural disaster, to a civil war, to being on the run from crazed cannibals for the rest of your life after a nuclear war and not even being able to use any sort of radio communications equipment without at least 3 raider rape gangs being able to triangulate your position.

Life's complicated. No matter what sort of SHTF scenario plays out, you probably won't live as a hermit in the woods, and most of the people you meet probably won't be cannibal murderers. You can't stay awake all the time, many good places to stay and useful modes of transportation will probably separate you from your baggage and weapons. There's a good chance that people will end up going through your stuff, and risk keeping some of it if it's what they need, especially if you've got a lot and they only take part of it (so you're not highly motivated to start shit when you realize it's gone).

Until the city is besieged like in Bosnia

>You're not going to hunt Moose with a .22lr

Every single animal on the North American continent has, at one time or another, been killed with .22lr. All depends on the size of your balls and shot placement (or willingness to mag dump).

no such weapon, SHTF will never happen

>being scared of raider rape gangs
>not setting a complex booby trap system around your radio coordinates
>not hunting raiders for sport like some kind of reverse Purge scenario
Do you even post apocalypse?

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In other countries.

>Every single animal on the North American continent has, at one time or another, been killed with .22lr.
.22lr zombie apocalypse!

I like your SHTF scenario.

Nah, that’s a special snowflake I need to into reloading with

>What is the philosophy behind what makes a good SHTF weapon?
As varied as the different interpretations of SHTF. Most important thing is having a handgun and long arm with a good bit of ammo for each. Preferably of the quality kind. Almost all realistic SHTF/WROL situations last days or weeks. Bad hurricanes, earthquakes in unexpected places, volcanic eruptions, and rioting are the most common real SHTF situations. If we're talking TEOTWAWKI or long term SHTF then the discussion is a bit different.
>What are some boxes it needs to tick?
ima break it down a little
>short term
Pretty much typical defensive concerns but add in that there's an increased possibility of long range engagements, multiple attackers, possibly AWOL LEOs, and that help isn't coming. Ergo capacity and the ability to provide at least effective area fire out to ~300m are much more important. Effectiveness against cover and armor are also much more of a concern.
>long term
All the previous concerns but magnified, also worry about ubiquity of ammo or ease of stacking deep on your budget and usefulness as a hunting firearm for taking any game of opportunity using common(walmart tier) ammo.
>What are some good examples?
Auto loading intermediate and full power rifles are going to be the best jack of all trades, particularly for short term stuff. Shotguns are very useful game getters and highly effective against unarmored targets at close range.

Frankly I'd recommend getting an auto loading rifle and then a handgun. Bonus point if said rifle is compact enough to be readily used from inside a vehicle or concealed to some degree. Handgun doesn't matter too much, intersection of capacity and compactness would be my recommendation. It's the gun that never leaves your side, you might not be able to go everywhere with a long gun, even in SHTF.

After that get armor before worrying about other guns.

You mean "rationale", or "school of thought".

Philosophy is an academic discipline, not a specific school of thought.

many reliable pieces of equipment flex in response to stress. that's the point. rigidity is much easier to break.

Reliability, ammunition availability, weight, and accuracy I think. I have a PTR91 as my main so I may be fucked, but at least I have heavy firepower for when the cannibal rape gangs come rolling through town

>You're not going to hunt Moose with a .22lr
You shouldn't even hunt moose if you're alone when SHTF anyway.

Large game is for groups of people, or for guys who have a large electric freezer.

Don't be a Chris Mccandless and try to smoke a moose on-site all by yourself like an idiot.

I guess I'll say it

SKS MASTER RACE!!!!

>mu romanian sks

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no .45, kid detected

Not being owned by an anime loving faggot will make most weapons more effective.

.357 Mag levergun

What was the point of those anyway?
I thought pistol powder burns up at a short length so's to be shot in a pistol

There will be convoys of 5.56 making its way through the U.S.
You may or may not be on their side, but the ammo is obtainable.

No one checking quads

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1. Ammo availability.
2. Reliability.
3. Spare parts availability.

That's all I think about when I buy firearms for SHTF.

>gas mask
>legs completely exposed
lol

also just a .22 and a shotgun

>muh fuddy fahv
There’s a reason I didn’t include it. Only reason I have .357 is because my dad gave me his revolver.

>implying legs breathe
lol

>chemical agents/fallout wouldnt get stuck to your skin
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21047269
lol
weebs will be the first to die, all by themselves really

Yeah but if I have a good 9mm handgun I can just take the ammo instead of having to get stuck with someone's shitty 9mm when my memecaliber gun runs dry.

Topkek

Checked divine quads

ubiquity is your friend, primarily in ammo chambering and also in magazines and accesories. As a hipster this saddens me, but 9mm glocks, 12 gauges, and ARs are the best for those reasons

>Low weight

If you're gonna be packing shit all day hauling am M82 around isn't the best bet.

>Reliable

SHTF dramatically increases the chances that you'll need to actually use it, and you really want it to go bang when you pull the trigger.

>Chambered in something easy to get

You never know when your special snowflake caliber will be available again, better to use something that everyone is gonna have, that's what's going to have production ramp up first as well.

>Effective

Needs to be able to put food on the table or take down 2-legged animals with ease.

>Unobtrusive

A hot pink shotgun with tassels hanging from it might be the hit of the range, but you don't want to draw attention to yourself if possible.

PTR91 - it'll feed pretty much any damn .308 you put through it. Can't reload the brass since it chews it up though

I laughed harder at this than I should have

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>Don't be a Chris Mccandless and try to smoke a moose on-site all by yourself like an idiot.
He just did it wrong. The method has to suit the conditions. One man can process a moose before the meat rots, and if you're trying to survive, getting a lot of meat is good even if much of it goes to waste. Anyway, he should have prioritized making lard. Fat is more scarce than protein in the wild, and humans aren't great at surviving on protein. He definitely should have tried to kill that bear. Beautiful lard from bears, and the meat is also good.

If you kill a large animal in a survival situation, aside from stuffing yourself silly on fresh meat while it's there, you should be thinking of pemmican. Lard/tallow is always possible. If you lack a large pot, dig a hole (or build a hollow mound with rocks, or sticks and mud, or whatever) and line it with the skin (sew up any hole you put in it good and tight), you can boil water in it with hot rocks from a fire. This is for rendering. You boil fat and bones, and skim and dispose of scum, and skim and keep the fat.

Is the air dry, and better yet, dry and windy? Prioritize slicing the meat thin and hanging it in the air (don't worry about flies). Smoke is good but optional. Is it damp? You need heat to lower the relative humidity and may lose the meat unless you've built a smokehouse beforehand. Dry it out long past the point of being pleasantly chewy jerky. You want it to be bone dry and unpleasantly crunchy. Now you can grind it into a powder (poundmeat) to mix into the lard for pemmican, preferably with some dried berries. The fat minimizes the exposed surface area, prevents water from getting into it, makes it hard for mold to grow on it, and also lets you pack it tight into containers with no airspace.

If you have lard, you can always upgrade it to pemmican by drying any kind of meat you get, like rabbit or grouse, or even fish, but don't miss a chance to make lard.

Oh yeah, and slice the meat with the grain. This makes it much easier to cut thin strips. You can just cut strips right off the carcass. The grain will guide your knife, easy. And prioritizing getting a lot off fast rather than getting every bit off the piece you're working on. You can always come back to pieces you started working on before, but if you can't get your time back.

Wins the thread.

yup

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Not him, but 380/9/40/45 is basically all semi auto pistols in the USA. If you get one of each, any ammo you find for a pistol will be one of those.

My penis

I wholly believe a lever action in a copious calibre is ideal. Usually available in .44. You can load on the go without the need to worry about magazines. You can equip scopes as necessary. Assuming it isn't cheap and nasty (double brace) then it'll be pretty reliable and easy to maintain. Can do range but can squeeze off quickly at close and mid. Perfect.

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>drones
emp shotgun when?

Because it has never happened before? It has.

Bolt guns are better. More reliable, sturdier, and higher accuracy. You can work the action almost as fast as a lever action if you get good at it.

I choose my pump-action shotgun (12 gauge) for defense and bolt-action deer rifle (.270) for offense. I inherited them, and consider them adequate. These old hunting guns won't make me look like I want to start trouble. At the same time, people are going to hesitate to fuck with anyone toting a shotgun. That big muzzle is very intimidating, and the misconceptions about it are on my side. If I have to leave one behind, I'm bringing the shotgun, but I think it's likely I can have a friendly nogunz be my caddy. Never travel alone if you don't have to.

I agree a bolt is probably a better gun but specifically thinking about all applications, needing to possibly reload on the run I think a modern lever is my choice (each to their own eh'?). It has the same effect as the bolts that people won't think it's a 'trouble gun' yet has pretty substantial clout.

I have to admit, for defense I'd rather have a lever-action rifle in my hands than a bolt-action rifle, but I'd choose the pump-action shotgun over either of those, as long as I don't anticipate a situation where I'm going to be able to both see and know friend from foe from a long way off.