Why are gun calibres so precise?

7.92x57 = 8mm mauser

Because they where imprecised when comparing across measurement systems.
The modern agreement is the bullet size is what is discussed.

An 88mm shell sounds odd for a metric country, until you consider the bore depth of the rifling is actually 90 mm

Similarly 105mm or 90mm sound odd coming from imperial nations, until you consider allied guns where sized to the Land atop the rifling, 3 1/2 (3.5) inches for 90mm shells (3.543" - 43 thou for rifling swaiges) and 4 3/32 (4.0937") for 105mm shells (4.1338" - 40 thou swaiging)

That is needlessly confusing

German 75mm guns were about 76mm in reality

sauce : germanfag who took calipers to the panzermuseum munster

i also did lots of photographs of welding marks and cast armour.

also i think the russians had monkeys as welders

That is extremely interesting. Thank you.

Yes, I realize that. It's just the rough origin, or in other words: It's the thought that counts.

Picture: This aircraft's fighter version was meant to have four 88mm guns.

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Oh shit I was thinking about this just today, and it's my first time on this board. What a coincidence.

>aircraft's fighter version was meant to have four 88mm guns.

I really wanna see 88mm WW2 autoloader, or does this fighter have a full bomber sized crew?

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That is VERY interesting. Thank you.

Actually, there's so much good info in this thread, that I'll just extend a hearty THANK YOU TO ALL THAT GAVE SERIOUS ANSWERS! Cheers.

I've been off this board for years, so that is definitely a weird coincidence!

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The RLM and designers went crazy as the war progressed. They had hundreds of schematics for aircraft that never had even a small-scale wooden mockup for the smallest of wind tunnels and which could never have been built even in peacetime.

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Any pics with you?

Point is, neither of those is actually 7.62mm in diameter. 7.62 is just the way of saying "30cal" in metrique

Adding to what others have said:
You have:
>.22
>.222
>.223
>.224

Do those bullets vary by .001" from each other?
Of course not.
But they had to have specific nomenclature assigned or shit gets too complicated.

>.38 SPL
>.38 acp
>.380
Is a great example. People constantly purchase the wrong ammo for their guns. If the cartridge literally won't fit in your gun (.38 SPL>.38 acp) then its not a safety issue. But it can become dangerous.

I read a report from a police officer about the handguns he found on criminals over the course of a year. About 3/4 were non-functioning for some reason. About 25% had the wrong ammo- including a 9mm that had .38, .380 and 9mm rounds loaded into the same magazine...

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I want to know what would happen.

Because 8x57mm J has a .318" bore and 8x57mm JS has a .323" bore. If you put JS ammo in a J bore you will probably damage the rifle

Is that in a 38 special or a 357 revolver?

>8x57mm J has a .318" bore and 8x57mm JS has a .323" bore
i believe those figures are for the grooves. i think the lands have the same diameter

>NASA had 9 MONTHS to catch mistake
>didn't
>"hurr imperial is dum!"
Metric is fucking trash, cooks, carpenters, and mechanics use imperial for a reason.

Metric was developed specifically to create these problems. See, England had this excellent system of countrywide standardized weights and measures, which was part of what made them an industrial superpower. France and other continental powers were still using crude local systems and envied England, but didn't want to create a system that further advantaged England and created even more international demand for the products of their established factories.

The solution? Create a similar but incompatible system, to become the "international standard" so England would be shut out of trade unless they accepted the cost of converting their whole industrial base, thus giving the other countries the chance to catch up and pull ahead.

Fuck metric. It's not better than standard, it's considerably poorer for everyday life (since it was thrown together by committees rather than evolving from units of natural convenience) and it was invented and promoted with mean-spirited intentions.

If it was so great, why did it lose

Checkmate believers

Lose what?

All but 2 countries have fallen to metric system

>being this booty bothered by the metric system
>mfw

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This is the same reason why there seem to be a myriad of Soviet calibers, varying by one or two milimeters. The story goes that there was a demonstration to Stalin of a new weapon system, and the ammo was ordered by telephone. However since the ammo had an identical caliber to existing artillery rounds, the latter type was sent in. Stalin was in a good mood, so he put up with the gulag worthy mixup, but suggested-told that the ammo designation be changed so that units in the field could call in ammo in a distinguishable manner.

>German 75mm guns were about 76mm in reality
I'm sure after shooting all that high velocity ammo they got a bit worn out.

This post is the reason why the mutt meme exists. There simply is no way to keep a straight face when arguing against such wanton jingoisitic stupidity

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Sorry no they are on my old pc

a friend has around 300 pics i will ask him later to give them to and i will upload

>1mm wear
>on an mid war panzer IV
>and on late war jagdpanzer iv
>also on the jagdpanzer iv prototype

yeah no

There was this thing with an expected short life span en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.8_cm_sPzB_41

It'll be a .357 which has been loaded with .38 Super which is a Semi Auto round.

Because 88mm just happened to be enough to have the shells do what they thought they were going to need them to do and do that better than their other ideas. If they thought they needed 90mm they would have made 90mm.

>the metric system was invented to piss off brits
oh boy. Either this is excellent bait, or you really got to sort out at least some of your problems, senpai.

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this is one of the most hysterically ignorant posts I think I've ever seen on Jow Forums - from the perspective of historical reality, from economics, engineering, hell, from plain, simple sanity, it is utterly fucking mental.

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And how many of those countries have put men on the moon?

Not even metrics ahmed

Metric was made by France after the French Revolution.

This is actually an interesting question. For the 88 in particular, that's just what it happened to be made in. In my opinion, a more interesting case is the case of Japanese gun calibers. You can totally tell when they decided to use the old British Calibers and when they decided to swap over to indigenous calibers.

For example, the Kongo, Fuso, and Ise classes of battleship were armed with 35.6 cm guns. This seems like a strange caliber, until you realize that that's 14 inches in imperial and that that gun is literally just Vickers 14 inch/45 naval guns. Then once they got to the Nagato class ships, instead of using 16 inch guns, they used 41 cm guns, which is 16.1 inches, because it was easier to round.

You can also see this for destroyer guns (12.7cm vs 10cm calibers), and cruiser guns (15.2 cm vs 15.5cm). They never developed a heavy cruiser gun that wasn't 8" or 20.3cm

That's because imperial is easier to eyeball when human scale things are involved. When you're talking about distance or very precise measurements, metric is better. Also, for liquid measurements as well. I'm not sure how you guys justify fl oz but 1L of water is 1kg. Isn't there like 16 oz to 1lb or something?

In any case, as someone who lives in Canada, which uses a hodgepodge of both, I find metric much easier for large and small scale measurements and imperial easier for eyeballing things. 3 cups is a lot easier to visualize than 750mL.

>fags arguing over metric vs imperial
>There are people who can't think with
Both have it's ups and downs but metric is easy for scientific uses and imperial being every man's unit as it's based around humanly behavior.

However I would say that the metric system simplification of mass into one unit does cause issues when doing calculation for rocket design.
Also inches are the standard measurement for dick length.

What is amazing about 12 inches is
12 divides 4 ways. 10 divides 2 ways. For those who do math in your head base 12 is better.

not really the issue
imperial avoids Repeating decimals by constantly changing base in order to shift the range of indivisibility outside of their use case

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>However I would say that the metric system simplification of mass into one unit does cause issues

..How many units for mass do you need?

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>That's because imperial is easier to eyeball when human scale things are involved.
this is a myth and the most obvious way to disprove it is that a normal finger is about 1cm wide the same way an inch is about the distance from thumb tip to thumb knuckle

>Canada, which uses a hodgepodge of both,
only engineers use imperial and only because of international standards being run by the eternal anglo

Two it just makes math slightly easier and makes more sense. Look up specific impulse.
The two units in question are slugs and pounds-mass.

>Metricfag has use a smaller unit of his main unit to prove a point
Lmaoing at your life.

For engineering and design where you might need to switch units as you do your shit, metric is better since its easier to convert units on it.

For everyday shit where you don't need precision, imperial is fine. Degrees Fahrenheit is fucking dumb though.

O F is an amazing temperature to test stuff though.

What happens at 0 fahrenheit? I know water freezes when goes below 0c and boils at 100c

>>Metricfag has use a smaller unit of his main unit to prove a point
i know youre trolling but unironically i judge distances by the size of the block my college-age apartment was on or the commute time i did back then, and for smaller distances i just use a fucking ruler because I'm not a fucking abbo piece of shit savage nigger like you dipshit yankees are who produce aircraft parts using your fucking fingernails as gauges

>>Metricfag has use a smaller unit of his main unit to prove a point

Sort of like the inch is a smaller unit of the foot, which is a smaller unit of the Yard, which you're using to try to "prove a point"?

incidentally, do you know that the inch is officially defined as a measurement derived from metric units?

I think you mean American cooks, carpenters and mechanics use imperial.

why

are you the same dumbass who said imperial is better because it's more natural to divide things by 3 using imperial compared to metric?

>he gets trolled this easily
ameriCANT detected

The rockets guidance computers used SI and converted to imperial for the astronauts.

>using the same standard for all your measurements results in easy tooling

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the moon is a barren rock of zero value and basically every nation of note has contributed something to the ACTUALLY important achievement of space research, the ISS.

you may as well say that afghanistan is the strongest nation on earth because it is in afghanistan

>..How many units for mass do you need?
something that has always bothered me is that imperial has a unit for weight, but not a unit for mass, and not a unit for force.

>>he gets trolled this easily

Uh... Uh! I was only pretending to be retarded! I troll U!

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i wasnt that guy. im why are americans so brittle? is it just that stressful to grow up with inferior units of reference?

So you are angry and butt hurt over American superiority.
K.

the 7.62 is actually closer to 7.63

and 8mm mauser isn't 8mm

us-metric.org/origin-of-the-metric-system/
But it's true though, and to top it all off the metric system was based off of incorrect measurements.
So a irrelevant, incorrect, inapplicable measurement system invented to railroad the British to retool their economic system is trash.
>Hurr water
Metric is only useful for scientific research, not for actual use.
>cooking
Measure out one cup of flour, easy right? Now measure 120gr of flour. Do you have a scale?

>Metric is only useful for scientific research, not for actual use.
>being this buttblasted
Obviously for you is not useful. We born using metric, same as you on imperial. It's part of daily life. When we have to use primitive imperial measures, we try to approximate it to metrical measures. IE, an inch = 2.5 cms, and so on.

>Measure out one cup of flour, easy right? Now measure 120gr of flour. Do you have a scale?

wtf all my recipes mark the required flour amount in deciliters

Why all 56%ers are so butthurt on the fact that they're not using a simple, rational and effective measuring system as the rest of the world. ?

Water freezes at 32º Fahrenheit, 0º is.... -17.778C. Again Celsius is not a good system for every day use, 75ºF is 23.8889C.

See the mistake you maid there is thinking recipes using metric ask you to measure up 120g of flour, when in reality they ask you to use deciliterers.

By what argument?

>dL
What the fuck, you use liquid measures to measure solids?

And how big is a “cup”? I have many different size cups in my kitchen, but a deciliter is a fucking deciliter.

nonsensical. Celsius is quite easy, I'm surprised that el goblino cannot understand it. 0 is ice, 100 is water boiling. What else do you need?

baking a cake isn't serious business like synthesizing LSD-25

Celsius is a fantastic system for use in everyday life. Especially living in a moderate climate country with temperatures going from -20 to +20

>hurr durr liquids
Its a volume measure, kiddo

Ok, what is hot?
100ºF. 100ºC would mean everyone is dying due to steam burns, and 0ºC is just freezing, while 0ºF is FUCKING COLD.

Then how the fuck is a cup different in this case? So long as you are not packing the flour as hard as you can you are fine.

>100ºC would mean everyone is dying due to steam burns

How do you make pasta without killing your whole family?

>How do you make pasta without killing your whole family?

Can't imagine they drink much coffee either...

>retard teir measurement
>can't divide by 1/4's
They call it Imperial for a reason Peasant, call me when Eurostan makes it to the moon, (protip never).

Are you underage? do you now that the entire western world and more use a 10 based numerical system? of 100, what's 25?
GTFO kid

>operation paperclip

>outside temperature is at boiling water
>not hot
Put your face over a pot of boiling water, or the steam vent of a kettle.

>Tu-4

>
>>retard teir measurement
>>can't divide by 1/4's
>They call it Imperial for a reason Peasant, call me when Eurostan makes it to the moon, (protip never).

NASA uses metric to be more combatible with other space agencies you absolute mongoloid

This thread is just filled with biased opinions preffering the system you grew up with... Metric is superior in unit conversion and imperial is intuitive in the sense it's based on real world things and not arbitrary standard units

>Virgin metric vs Chad Imperial

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>Put your face over a pot of boiling water,

This is literally what I do in winter time to treat my lungs..

>100ºC would mean everyone is dying due to steam burns

I've just put the kettle on and no one died due to massive steam explosion. I didn't even die once. A little disappointed to be honest.

Or maybe my kettles broke?

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7.62 has an other reason. back in the day the russians wetent using metric system, but rather a french measuring unit calles "lines" and they made a gun with an bullet diameter of exactly 3 lines, wich is 7.62mm.

also in europe qe measure the diameter differently than the us guys. we measure the bore diameter at the valleys of the riflings, while the us measure mostly at the hills.

thats why some .308 ammo wich would be 7.62 wouldnt fit the european counterpart and blow the gun up.

>spouting amerimutt meme without an argument

>100º isn't hot
>hottest recorded temperature 56.7C
I know Europeans are suicidal but fuck the Jews did a number on you.