Machine gun ban repeal

Wasn't that:
A - During the Federal AWB
B - Done AK's illegally modified to FA

Between the NFA and Hughes amendment there were 3 murders committed with a legally owned automatic weapon. One by a police officer. Which is why the Hughes amendment pisses me off so much, because there wasn’t any kind of problem

the "problem" was civilians having access to weapons that only the government should have. and we can't have that.

Look, we already have fully semi automatic weapons and they're massacring our children every day. Isn't that enough?

depends what you mean by civilian owned. there was a cop in the 80s that murdered an informant with one. is a cop an information? and there was an asian doctor about 15 years ago that murdered a guy with one. both case were in ohio.

Truer words have never been spoken.

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iirc there were zero in between the nfa and the hughes amendment. that cop killed that guy the same year the hughes amendment was passed.

really the only way we're going to get our gun rights back is if ginsberg dies before trump leaves office.

Really though, 50 year span, only 3 people murdered. Fucking Hughes

HA! Dude, about 50% of Republicans right now are on the verge of conceding ground to the left and allowing *more* gun control laws. Most are having sit-downs with the left and negotiating how laws need to be enforced and what new laws need to be created. Many Republicans (most notably Trump himself), mentioned that perhaps something should be done about "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines.

Just remember, it took a (supposedly) hard line Republican to push the machine gun ban in the first place. It never would have happened if a lefty was pushing for it, the right would have stone-walled them. So a New York liberal masquerading as a Republican has a serious chance of doing very real and permanent damage to what little of the 2nd Amendment still stands.

I don't know what planet you're living in that you think machine guns may once again be made legal, that's not the direction this nation is moving in. Have you not turned on the news in about 20 years?

There's not a prayer of full automatics being legal for civilians. Hell, by my estimation, even the reddish parts of the nation maybe only have a couple of decades before the only things legal are revolvers, pump action shotguns, and bolt-action rifles.

I know there's people who tell you not to panic buy on this board, but NOW is certainly the time to be grabbing any "assault rifles" or semi-autos you want. And a few thousand rounds of ammo for them is a reasonable plan. These are strange days and you clearly don't have your finger in the wind.

Guess what (((rhymes))) with Hughes?

>is a cop an information?
I have no idea, but he's definitely a civilian.

42 year span in between nfa and hughes and none murdered. two murdered after hughes.

trump appointed gorsuch. i'm not worried.

whoops, meant to write "is a cop a civilian?"

Easy.

1)Have a "LA Riots #2: Electric Boogaloo" where they sacrifice a neighborhood and then have a militia of bump-stock outfitted individuals pacify the area
2) Make claim, "If armed with full autos this will never have happened."
3)????
4) Giggle switches allowed

>repeal the Hughes amendment
>$6000-$20,000 machine guns
U r dum.
If the Hughes amendment was repealed we would have $20 lightning links and $500 full auto ARs. You'd still have to go through the NFA bullshit, but they would be very cheap.
I agree that they would not be used in crimes (except in very rare cases like other mentioned) simply because your average whackjob cannot be bothered to wait 6 months for a tax stamp to clear.

I think the simple truth is anyone wacky enough to go on a killing spree will *never* be making enough cash to own an automatic. The same instability that makes them prone to homicidal behavior will also make them unreliable on the job. I have a hard time believing any man prone to mass killing ever worked a job beyond entry-level grunt. Even if they were great on the job, they'd likely be so unreliable and kooky in temperament that no one would ever risk moving them up and making themselves accountable for that poor judgment call. So I believe most mass killers will always be working with a budget of about a grand or less, unless if they have family money.

Except paddock, if the common narrative is to be believed.

Not since the Depression anyway.

>I know there's people who tell you not to panic buy on this board, but NOW is certainly the time to be grabbing any "assault rifles" or semi-autos you want.
Dana please go

See Besides, Paddock was a millionaire, Woo Bum Kon was a cop, the Unabomber was a professor, and Breivik ran a business for several years that left him with over $100k in assets. Crazies that have real careers are rare, but they do exist.

Just out of curiosity did gun murders by machine guns go down significantly with the machine gun ban?

Two years, actually. That happened in 1988.

What was the other two besides the cop?

No. In fact, in between the enactment of the National Firearms Act and the Hughes Amendment, 42 years; No one had committed a single crime with a legally registered machine gun, 0.

I have yet to see any real stats that could provide a satisfactory answer to that question. The DoJ record what type of weapon was used for a homicide (rifle, shotgun, handgun etc.) but I have never seen any stats that include machine guns.
I believe they are typically going off the cartridge used, since there are plenty of murder cases where the weapon is never recovered. Like if someone was shot 5 times with a 9mm they would probably just list it as a handgun murder even though it could have been a full auto Mac-11 or a pistol caliber carbine.

>legally registered
That wasn't what he asked.
Also you should realize that your statement makes it sound like the NFA was a huge success.

That cop was crooked too. The guy he gunned down was a police informant who had dirt on the guy. So the cop and his buddy set-up a fake meeting with him and the cop 'accidentally' got his walkie talky antenna stuck in the trigger guard of his M11 submachine gun and mag dumped the informant. His buddy finished him off with a shotgun blast if he wasn't already dead before that.

Got a link?

ar15.com/forums/general/With_one_exception__every_murder_committed_with_a_registered_MG_was_done_by_a_cop_/5-908441/

8th post in the thread.

>implying the thompsons used during the depression were legally obtained

thanks senpai

They probably were, since you could just walk into a store and buy a machine gun and a brick of TNT with no questions asked back then. Most police departments did not have Thompsons at the time, so it's not like you could easily steal one from a squad car or whatever.

Well it sort of was. I realize this contradicts just about everything on this board but having a long waiting period/weed-out process to get a gun really cuts down on the number of whackjobs and retards getting them. Having it per-gun is stupid but I think both sides could get what they wanted if gun owners needed to get a federal license that took a while and included a background check but then entitled them to own and carry any gun they wanted in all 50 states. No loopholes, no dumb local politics, clear and simple.

The only way I see is peaceful mass disobedience. If every gun owner in America made/got a full fun gun there would be nothing ATF or local law could really do. Too many in circulation, too much money and resources to stop it.
It's a pipe dream but it would be our best shot aside from total break down of government and lawlessness for years at a time.

tommy guns cost the equivalent of 2800$ back then. the only way your average criminal got one was stealing it from a manufacturer.

Im pretty sure they were up through 1934. There was no ban on them, background checks werent a thing, and even New York and Chicago only regulated handguns (I think, records are shotty)

Merchant? No, that's not quite right...

>the only way your average criminal got one was stealing it from a manufacturer.
You mean how the average criminal was a member of the extremely well funded cartels?
And by stealing you mean buying?

Yeh, New York passed the Sullivan Act in 1911, which required you to have a license to buy, sell, and posses gun small enough to be concealed.

>average criminal
The guys with Thompsons were not "average" criminals. They were members of huge organized crime rings that ran bootlegging, smuggling, prostitution, gambling, and extortion rackets.
Your "average" criminal had an Iver Johnson revolver.

Thanks man, thats really interesting. 30 round magdump in the chest and a few shotgun pumps, they could havê really been smarter not to incriminate themselves.

>gun owners needed to get a federal license that took a while and included a background check but then entitled them to own and carry any gun they wanted in all 50 states.
In most of Europe you have to get a license, which entails passing a test, paying a fee, being a member of a recognized gun club, and a few other things depending upon the country, it's quite a tedious, expensive, and impractical process for the majority of people to bother with.

Exactly, the problem is their's doesnt validate self defense, its for sport shooting and also has a lot of ridiculous requirements that wouldnt fly in America. If we had something like a 1-month waiting period license for regular weapons and a 6-month waiting period for NFA weapons with full rights to carry I think that would be a good compromise. I wrote up a whole proposal on this if you want to see it.

Yeah I'd like to see that, how difficult the license be?

There was one where a cop murdered his neighbors and his chief with an MP5.

pastebin.com/hHB31b4i its essentially the same requirements as your average concealed weapons permit with a few more things stuck on at higher levels (what i wrote up gives more to the left wing but it was just a rough idea, obviously open to suggestions)

Honestly I like it and think it could have a reasonable chance of passing, only a few things I take issue with, the requirement to register guns with the ATF, the limit on amount of guns that can be bought in a year, and the fact that body armor is a controlled item.

I realize defacto registration is controversial but for these laws to make sense and do away with the weird sort of system we have where some people have to go through federal paperwork and others just buy from their neighbor its important. The limit is just for machine guns, thats so biker gangs or whoever cant get one guy to supply them all. The body armor thing is debatable but they are actually great tools for crimes and prevent most police/civillian guns from killing an assailant so I think not regulating them is questionable, dont we already require a background check anyway?

>dont we already require a background check anyway?
No. You can buy a kevlar vest on Ebay.

>doeswn't know shit about the law
>wants to write new laws
Every time.

Well sorry for not knowing literally everything about guns and gun accessories, but I've actually done a lot of research. Seriously im not just saying that, this is a really weird and unhealthy obbsession of mine because I think most gun laws are really dumb and reflect badly on the state governments are in. Name any US State or even most countries and I could give you a rundown on their firearm policy.

>Well sorry for not knowing literally everything about guns and gun accessories
It's not unreasonable to expect you to have some knowledge about the subject before you call for new regulations.

Did you read my proposal? Its pretty clear that i put some thought into it, the body armor part was just an afterthought in the "figure out the details later" section.

Body armor is a protective device, in fact there are companies that make ballistic inserts for school bags. They should be no more regulated than bicycle helmets, life vests, or fire extinguishers.

Well I was asking for suggestions anyway so thank you, I made a thread about this a few weeks ago and just got 100 "SHALL" replies and almost no constructive criticism (even though it was meant to expand more than restrict gun rights). Its hard to write a replacement for all federal and state gun laws on a dorm room laptop without some errors.

I don't really care to read it because a national licensing scheme would be blatantly unconstitutional.

Is the current system not unconstitutional? My proposal is based on an acceptance of the fact that without societal collapse we'll never have machine guns without background checks again and if we want to get most of what we want we need to come up with an acceptable alternative to dumb shit like assault weapons bans.

Well like I said I actually like most of it and can seriously see it pass, I just don't like the idea of armor being restricted or of a registration beyond just the license, if I read correctly one of your proposed rules was registration of certain individual firearms, personally I'd rather it be this is the license this person has and that's all they need to know, also the requirement to serialize and declare home built arms which ironically under our system of infringement isn't a current requirement.

>Is the current system not unconstitutional?
Yes.

>We need to accept the unconstitutional laws and create new ones that are equally unconstitutional
How about no?

Sorry for being bitchy I thought you were the other guy. The body armor is a small detail, I think regulating it like guns makes sense but I dont care that much. As for the registration I think that if we're going to have a serious change in the law its neccesary to require people to report guns for grandfathering. If you have a more gentle suggestion Im all ears, maybe they could just have to report one gun to get all of theirs grandfathered, but not doing it makes for a lot of legal issues in regards to "no i didnt buy this from tyrone on the street corner last week, i had this before the new law" .

Youd rather just not accept shitty laws written by liberals but still have them passed and enforced inspite of your interests? You really arent going to get what you want, its a matter of working with what we have.

I propose that you neck yourself.

Republicans are merely false opposition to the Democrats, who are the only party that has real power (notice how the agenda on guns and immigration is completely controlled by Democrats/liberals even with Trump in Office)

The Democrat party is the party of the civil service, which actually controls the government (not elected officials, many of whom are outsiders to the government's bureaucracy).

It would be much better if the US was ruled as a single party state by the democratic party. They would not have to import third world Democratic voters by the millions just to maintain formal democratic legitimacy. And if they want to grab guns, they would just do it instead of engaging in this post-parkland cringefest

>he thinks gun control is about crime
>he thinks its not about keeping conservative whites disarmed so they dont pose a credible threat to liberal hegemony
"Muh crime" and "muh school shootings" is simply bait for sheltered urban normies who are clueless about guns anyway

Seriously how are you people going to get this triggered about opening a discussion about shutting up the parkland kids and getting back legal machine guns and all state concealed carry, which is exactly what this would do

Your proposal would be all around worse for me, so why the fuck would I support it? I do not want to register anything or get a license of any kind to keep the shit I already have. The NFA and Hughes were passed long ago, and it is always possible (but unlikely) that Hughes coudl be repealed or the NFA could be amended to be less shitty. A national licensing and registration scheme for all firearms would NEVER go away, and we both know that subsequent administrations would do everything in their power to abuse it.

>good
>compromise
Pick one; there is no compromising with grabbers, they dont want to,best case scenario they will just pretend to compromise so they can get a extra footing and go back to grabbing, and start ralying to bring back the NFA and carry permits,make it more dificult to get a license, make licenses rejected on slight suspicions, s make the 1 month waiting period 6 months among other things.

You talk about requirements that wont fly into america, but gun licenses fall into that category, they fly in other countries because they dont have guns as a constitutional right; also i dont like the 1 month waiting period it's one thing to wait for a background check to be completed but having a inflated waiting period just to try to weed out whackjobs seems redundant (you also have to keep in mind that in countries with licenses there are many people who are nogunz and decide to get gun licenses after they are stalked/robbed/threatened to protect themselves) , if there is a license you should be allowed to own guns as soon as it is comproved that you are "safe".

Finally as previously stated giving more to the left is a bad idea, it wont make them more appeased it will just give them more ground when they make their next attempt at taking guns.

Set your standards lower. We're so low we should probably set the standards at an actual compromise. Which isn't the same as a compromise we're used to. If we want Suppressors to be taken off the NFA, something like Bump Stocks would have to be added to the NFA. that's an actual compromise

I'd think just having the license for the class you own should suffice regardless of if was bought last year or in the last five minutes, if a person is found to be in possession of a firearm of a class they are not licensed for ideally they could be issued a citation requiring them to get the appropriate license and supply proof of licensure within a certain time to prevent further action. I'd also expect the license info could be easily pulled up just as conceal carry license information is currently.

They parkland kids would not shut up, (assuming the dems accept the "compromise") they would just get more ground and start complaining about how the NRA bought politicians to legalize weapons of war or something.

BTW what is team peanut butter/creme/peep about ?

Not happening. That's not a compromise they would try to get surpressors back into the NFA and want the bumpstock ban to be as vague and draconian as possible.

exactly, its simply a frog in boiling water situation.

>ban scary ARs because normies are scared of them
>bans on other semi auto rifles soon follow because liberals remind normies that a mini 14 and an AR15 are functionally the same
>bans on handguns follow, this time supported by facts, as normies are reminded that most armed crimes are committed by handguns
>bans on manual action guns then follow because, hey, guns are still guns, and guns still kill people
All attempts at gun control, no matter how mild, are attempts at banning guns period

It might be some kind of holiday special

>compromise
>with people who want to take away your guns completely and will do everything in their power to ensure that happens

>BTW what is team peanut butter/creme/peep about ?
IDs, without the tripcode

>That's not a compromise
Yes it is. You're giving something, and getting something
>they would try to get surpressors back into the NFA and want the bumpstock ban to be as vague and draconian as possible.
That's a different issue. You seem to be on the opposite end of the "Doesn't know what a compromise is" spectrum

Good luck gaining zero (while also losing ground) for eternity. Let's see where that gets the 2A

Yeah I realize thats the idea but "gungrabbers" are a small and actually kind of weak group, the NRA kicks their ass and they only gained footing again due to mass shootings. If you want to stop them the real thing to do is come up with better mental health solutions to prevent this stuff. I think my proposal would have stopped Nicholas Cruz but most other mass shooters planned for months in advance so licenses are no problem, the reason I want them is to establish clearer rights for gun owners and make it easier to verify an illegal gun owner through lack of a license. The one month could be 2 weeks or whatever but some kind of waiting period is essential, and it wouldnt affect you at all because you could just get the license before the law takes affect.

The grandfather clause is for the small minority of people that wouldnt pass the new requirements, everyone else should just get a license and not having one would be a crime (maybe just a misdemeanor if they could have passed a background check).
Oh come on you really think we'll be hearing from them in a few months? They're a meme, memes die. If we give them a crumb with enough sugar on it theyll shut up now. These kids will be in college next august anyway.

The compromise isnt for them its for the normie masses who dont really care that much.

Exactly, need to cut our losses and deal with it for what it is. If we get the right concessions we could start actually gaining ground and ultimatelt turn things around.

>Good luck gaining zero (while also losing ground) for eternity. Let's see where that gets the 2A
I have zero hope for the Western world. Liberals control them all, and any conservative and right wing opposition is controlled opposition

Conservatives always lose ground because that is what they are designed to do. Liberals always gain ground because they represent the interests in the new elite, and therefore set the agenda on the ground.

If you think this new elite will "compromise" in letting its enemies (such as conservative white gunowners) be armed and dangerous, then you are being played as a fool

Long term, I would bank on guys like Cody Wilson and others in allowing people to create guns in the privacy of their own homes, making gun control obsolete.

After all, there is no way any society will ban 3d printers (an emergent and possibly revolutionary technology as the tech improves, making it suicide to ban them).

I know what a compromise is, but grabbers dont want that they will only accept if they think they are getting the upper hand and try to take back what they "gave" me (that is what they took and gave back temporarily so they can take more) afterwards.

>Gun grabbers don't want that
Nobody wants a compromise, that's why they exist.

Why the fuck do you think anything in your proposal is a good idea?

Under your bullshit we
- Have to go through fucking tiered licensing bullshit to buy firearms we can currently buy with no restrictions
- Register everything
- Can't buy kevlar vests without going through similar bullshit
- Go through huge waiting periods for everything
Oh but golly gee willikers we can have machine guns (if we go through the highest level bullshit)!
Yeah, nah. I think I'll keep things the way they are. Using a binary trigger isntead of a legit giggle switch is preferable to getting my anus fingered by the ATF to buy a bolt action rifle.

Samefag.

BTW this is starting to look like a raid.

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>The compromise isnt for them its for the normie masses who dont really care that much.
normies are loyal to whoever will keep them safe and comfortable, which will always be the system (which is why they are normies). Normies are loyal to the system which is controlled by liberal technocrats.

If they can ban ARs for being "assault rifles" they can ban bolt actions for being "sniper rifles"

Grabbers control the system, they have way more bargaining chips than we do

But the normie masses have no political power, the compromise would have to be with the people who want to take away guns completely for it to "work"

and they're terrible negotiators. Problem is the Pro 2A guys are somehow worse.

get your head out of your ass
we'll be lucky if we're still allowed to have semi-auto rifles 10 years from now

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how do I join team peep

Realistically speaking, is it possible to sneak the repeal into a budget bill or something like that?

Why is your team not showing up alongside the post ? that photo looks suspicious.

If not samefagging it looks even more like a raid since this means that there is more than one user behind these posts.

For me, no posts after has a team unless I refresh

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