Britain has selected the Boxer for their MIV program and officially returned to the consortium giving them full fledge rights they left fifteen years ago.
gov.uk
Britain has selected the Boxer for their MIV program and officially returned to the consortium giving them full fledge...
Levi Powell
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Matthew Stewart
Australia chose it as well, for the Land 400 replacement project.
Caleb Murphy
How much armor do these things have? It weighs as much as a T-72.
Ian Ward
From all I read, they're the most heavily armoured 8x8 on the market.
Sure did. Getting 211 to replace the ASLAVs.
Michael White
How long until the UK makes rhinos?
Jason Young
Get out creme this is a chocolate thread
Christopher Wilson
>severely overpriced
>wheeled vehicle heavier than tracked vehicle
my god, bongistan are you mad?
Luis Sanchez
A loser thread then? You're falling behind Mini of all things.
Nathaniel Allen
the scoring system is clearly modeled after golf you fucking clown, step it up
Landon Watson
>Even trying to move the goalposts in such a way
Are you also anti-gun?
Elijah Moore
It was sad thing that white colonialist British overlook and failed to choose the BEST MIV in whole Asia. The INDONESIA Panzer ANOA is the best and classes much much much better than the whole British MiV programmed selection. INDONESIA ANOA have involved in real-life combat in iRan, iRaq, Syria, Lebanon and prove itself as the BEST IFV. Even the American general said, a single ANOA is can match its combat capability with a squadron worth of Americans Stryker.
Christian James
AAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAH
Juan Martinez
>are you anti-gun
i dont think so
Jeremiah Peterson
AMV XP suck my dick.
Piranha V suck my dick.
VBCI 2 suck my dick.
LAV 700 suck my dick.
Pandur II suck my dick.
Terrex 3 suck my dick.
Freccia suck my dick.
Levi Sanders
Wasn't so long ago it was just Germany and the Netherlands. Now Australia, Britain, Lithuania and Slovenia are on board.
Boxer will grow larger.
Luis Price
Now only the Puma needs more love.
Zachary James
nice lego car hahah
Charles Murphy
>From all I read, they're the most heavily armoured 8x8 on the market.
I find it funny that Germans and Bongoloids were involved in A400M and both have chosen "light" armored vehicles that barely fit into mainstay of their future airlift capability and certainly cannot be airlifted to improvised airstrips with it.
>Wasn't so long ago it was just Germany and the Netherlands.
Rhreinmetall and KMW have serious political clout behind them, bribery by other means. Hopefully it will workout as well as Eurocopter Tiger, NH-90 and essentially all European cooperation military projects for all involved parties.
Kayden Lewis
Boxer is a great choice because of it's level of armour protection but fuck it's heavy and expensive.
Australia could only afford 211 of them (129 will be the main combat variant), pretty sure we wanted over 300(?).
We'll be able to punch light Chinese armour at least, but we only have 59 M1A1 for the rest of our armour force.
Ethan Jackson
It's not really heavy other modern AFVs are past 30t as well.
Christian Gonzalez
Isn't the whole point of wheeled AFVs to keep them light enough to Hercules around? This thing is heavier than a combat loaded CV90 40mm, with the same level of protection, and carries the same number of troopers.
Adam Howard
Too heavy for Hercules and barely fits in A400M. Pretty much only thing in RAF inventory that can airlift either Ajax or Boxer to shitty runway is C-17. Bongs and Krauts have really fucked up everything when it comes to coordination between service branches, armor and airlifting. This is fucking up everything up to doctrine level. Fast responses to crisis and equipment that can be airlifted to other side of the world for crisis management operations was supposed to be a big part of post cold war doctrine.
Logan Powell
Yeah, I don't get it. Lighter wheeled AFVs for quick response and airlifting and heavier tracked AFVs for mechanized infantry and slower airlifting is something the Soviets established in the 70's and something we've kinda had going since the end of Cold War 1, but now we're doing stuff like this?
38500 kg fully loaded combat weight.
Anthony Myers
It's the heaviest one though, combat weight is 38,500kg
Joseph Jones
more like 36t
Benjamin Sanchez
Stryker brigade is a joke, at first they wanted something that could be air-lifted by C-130, and at some point they started to get away with it.
Now the only reason why wheels sound plausible is because they're cheaper
Josiah Brown
What is Jow Forums's thoughts behind the next IFV to replace the M113 for Aus, as part of Land 400 Phase 3
Grayson Ward
>now we're doing stuff like this?
General lack of coordination in larger scale. Also budget cuts across the board in defense forcing everyone to fight for their program over the other programs by other service branches. Most countries made pretty much blind guesses to how future will shape up in 90's. Lots of programs were cut or scaled down. Often resulting in lets save bit of money now and then spend fuckload of more money fix the issue caused by being cheap later on.
There are examples everywhere from RAF's quest to save few millions with Typhoon's gun that ended up costing like five times as much they saved in the end.
Wheels are much easier on logistics as well. Less fuel to be supplied to a shithole on another side of the globe. Regardless is it supplied by airlift or by convoys requiring escort through frenemy shitholes like Pakistan. Speed is also on side of wheeled APC/IFV's over tracked ones.
Christopher Smith
In 2016 yeah, but it's changed. New combat load out with additional armour and Lance turret is 38,500kg
Gavin Parker
I don't see why any other company would bother to bid. Rhinemetall KMV has won with Boxer and will build that massive new factory for all of them (after the first Germany-built 25) and the thousands of trucks we are in the process of receiving.
The benefits of all of this combined will make the government choose Puma or Lynx., especially if we use the same turret that we will build here.
I don't know why anyone else would waste their time competing, Rhinemetall can charge whatever the fuck they want, they know they're gonna win.
Brandon Perry
not really
stryker was merely an interim solution until the FCS becomes available, which was a tracked vehicle btw.
Xavier Rogers
>BRITISH BY BIRTH
>Team Chocolate
What a coincidence!
Landon Brown
FCS got shitcanned, follow up for IFV variant of FCS manned ground vehicle got axed as well. That 55t (75t with modular armor) oversized Bradley variant was pretty brilliant. Perfect vehicle for expeditionary wars.
Lot of cancelled programs in last ten years became bloated and unfocused largely due to programs being expanded to replace lot of previously cancelled programs. Military procurement still suffers from stupid decisions made almost 30 years ago.
Alexander Brown
What was the AMPV program for? Haven't heard or seen much about it
Colton Gray
Poor little choco boy, all on his own
Brody Flores
>What was the AMPV program for?
To replace specialized M113-variants still in service that were at last legs of mechanical integrity. Ambulances, command post vehicles, mortar carriers and so on. It stems from respective variants of FCS manned ground vehicle getting cancelled.
To be honest with lots of hindsight, turretless Bradley variants should have been part of Bradley-program from the start.
Alexander Thompson
Nice airsoft
Aiden Adams
>then
Thomas Edwards
Brandon Jones
Protection was the premium in the trials. And 225 was the original order number.
And the army is planning for more tanks and in better variants. Along with ARVs, bridge layers and breaching vehicles.
Mason James
Is there still time to get a British 40mm gun with it, now that they are back on board. Or are Australia already committed to the KMW turret?
Kayden Nelson
The bongs don't need airlift, I'm sure the two ships the Royal Navy has left can handle sealift
Adam Brooks
Bit like the F-35 and Zumwalt, hey?
Oliver Lee
Amount of m113's that can be re-furbished at reasonable price is starting to go down. For long time they have just taken in overhauled vehicles from storage and haven't overhauled vehicles that are sent back to storage.
Sealift to landlocked places like Afghanistan is surely easy.
Elijah Taylor
more like challenger 2 and eurofighter typhoon
Henry Flores
>Sealift to landlocked places like Afghanistan is surely easy.
Good old blighty showing how great the royal navy is even when it can only afford two ships
Lincoln Wright
>This thing is heavier than a combat loaded CV90 40mm, with the same level of protection, and carries the same number of troopers.
This.
Nicholas Howard
Except both have seen substantial amounts of combat, and proven to be one of the best NATO has to offer :^)
Unlike the Zumwalt, that breaks down in drydock. And the F-35, which gets destroyed in an engagement with an F-16.
Jose Adams
This specification would be better served by an MBT. Apparently the job of recon is to kill stuff and take hits.
It sounds like they're doing this for the money, they just want a cut of the pie.
Zachary Jones
except it has the highest total cost per hour in the world, which is higher than that of the F-22 or B-1
weren't you guys the largest buyer of F-35B next to the US?
Blake Nguyen
Recce is all about being armoured as fuck with killing everything short of MBTs now.
Levi Bell
btw none of those you've mentioned above are anywhere near the fiascos of joint euro projects.
JSF is now one of the successful and best selling fighters in the west, simply because there's not much of an option
Brayden Jackson
It's nowhere near the most expensive. Those figures are totally skewed by the inclusion of expended munitions and depreciation. If I wasn't on my tablet I'd post the actual numbers.
Jaxson Phillips
>memes and anime posting
I expect nothing less from a Mini
Cameron Carter
>even the manufacturer itself has admitted it
Bentley Foster
Post Boxers.
Justin Adams
FOI request from the mod put Typhoon cost per hour at £4,631 for 2015/16
This excludes fuel but Jane's estimated that once fuel is factored in a cost of £7000 a year is likely. Making it on par with F16 and cheaper than F35 A, rafale, F18 and F22. Only gripen is cheaper.
Jack Hall
and it's keep increasing
Luke Baker
Your picture does not support your claim.
My link refutes your claim.
flightglobal.com
Wyatt Rogers
Why have you swapped to using Austria as an example? Stop trying to skew the figures in your favor
Those figures are 7 years old for a nation that has barley any flying hours.
Feel free to do the sums yourself google.co.uk
Michael Cruz
>they literally just did so by increasing the maintenance cycle
what a great job you've done
Jason White
So you concede that you were wrong?
Thanks.
Michael Carter
Even with the old costs you were way out.
You seriously thought typhoon was more expensive to operate than B1 and F22? What a joke.
Charles Robinson
>reducing the cost by exchanging it with the investment in safety
surely a great job, I'm impressed bongs have come to this far
btw you do know that the offset has never been changed?
Jaxon Torres
see for yourself
Jack Cruz
You don't airlift armoured units into combat
Ian Lewis
Name an RAF typhoon lost since the change.
It is possible to over service an aircraft.
But the fact remains that you were plain wrong. Now you're just trying to create a sideshow.
Lincoln King
Jaxson Davis
Your numbers have no date for context. But $60k is more than £7000 sweetie
Ian Rivera
But without the turret it's not one vehicle for all roles!!
Chase Green
Congratulations you just played yourself
Angel Rodriguez
Good point. Let's put a 120mm gun on there to make sure it can kill MBTs. Maybe some extra armour to give it MBT level protection, too.
Gabriel Peterson
by which you mean cutting the cost for inspection by any means is marginal as long as they don't crash
it's been a great pleasure discussing with you
Brody Gomez
You're inventing criteria to suit your argument with no basis in fact.
As proven in even before the reduction it was cheaper than all the aircraft you mentioned and more.
Come back when you learn to count whitey.
Ryan Hall
Challenger 2 is fine tank, but you have to take into account that it is literally Challenger 2: electric boogaloo. First Challenger wasn't exactly great tank and earlier variants of its predecessor the Chieftain were quite epic dumpster fires. Cannon could be considered problem with Chally2 and post Cold War budget cuts to procurement number fucked up unit cost.
Typhoon as a program is something that was heavily derailed and delayed due to post Cold War budget cuts in all participating nations. Not to mention all of fuckups that are part of the territory with joint European projects. RAF's fuckup with cannon procurement was quite British.
So basically they are delaying costs...
>Name an RAF typhoon lost since the change.
There might be bit of delay when results of longer maintenance cycle become apparent.
>You don't airlift armoured units into combat
In modern doctrine and quick reaction times being a key feature of modern post Cold War doctrine armored vehicles tend to be airlifted into theater of operations. Like Afghanistan or Mali for example.
>But without the turret it's not one vehicle for all roles!!
Is it mandatory to bring that movie to every discussion about the Bradley?
Oliver Johnson
>So basically they are delaying costs...
It's not delaying if the cost is spread over more time.
In the same way that mortgaging a house doesn't delay the cost to the end of the term.
Increasing servicing intervals is very common.
Typhoon is currently at 750 hours per deep overhaul.
F16 was at 50 in the 90's. This increased to 100,then 150 then 200, then 300 in 1999 then 400 in 2003.
Thats as recent data as I've found with my brief look but I'm confident it has risen further. It'll definitely be a shorter interval than typhoon though by virtue of being single engined and less complex.
Updating service intervals is very common as reliability increases. Its not a trick to fudge numbers.
A good example is car engines.
A few decades ago a new car would need a service after month or two to check its running okay. Now engines are sealed units from the factory that have various sensors to push the first service out to 12/18 months
Jose Powell
Ah c'mon, if Austria's utterly massive fifteen aircraft fleet isn't enough for the economy of scale benefits to kick in then what is?
Justin Wilson
Challenger 2 has very little commonality with the Chally 1, they're pretty much completely different.
Brody Garcia
Why the fuck does it weigh so much? With a crew of Infantry it'll weigh near as much makes no difference 40 tons.
Christopher Johnson
You joke, but you seem not to have heard about the "fight for information" meme.
Oldschool cavalry is a bit obsolete desu. Drones (including hand-launched) are good enough to recon mechanized forces. SF in 4x4s or civvie trucks can launch them, and sneak around on foot to look for infantry or demolitions after the drones clear the area of vehicles.
If they hit resistance, they GTFO or die. Recon forces that fight through resistance need heavy armor (tanks) that can handle RPG volleys.
Heavy wheeled 8x8s are good as a defensive land force on the Australian continent; but medium-weight recon forces don't have a dedicated niche in conventional, offensive American/European doctrine. They're more of a way to smuggle extra vehicles under the budget keepers nose.
Andrew Cook
Allegedly they need ~800 Boxers, but settle on 500 preliminary.
They want 10 versions; apc, command post, armored recovery, mortar, ambulance, armored engineering, joint fire control, ifv/recce, 155mm spg, shorad.
Apc will feature Kongsberg Protector (m2 rws) with Javelin atgm.
I also have this pic of a Boxer with a 40mm ctas and Javelin, don't know the date.
Leo Anderson
Jack Smith
they did years ago
Liam Jenkins
user, those with the turrets are Predators.
Though they did make Rhinos also.
Lucas Thompson
>not really
>doesn't actually try to refute anything
Colton Gutierrez
Noice.
Asher Thomas
Jason King
>Is it mandatory to bring that movie to every discussion about the Bradley?
It's a sign of someone losing an argument.
Liam Smith
>using the raaf in your cost estimates
Our fuel costs are ridiculously high and we pay our techs litterly twice what you pay yours.
Oliver Hughes
that image has been completely debunked in previous threads.
Sure it was not as succesful a colabaration as Jaguar and Tornado.
But the end result is a very capable aircraft that will be around for decades. As the most successful euro triangle, it's pretty much replaced the F16 as the versatile jet of choice. (for countries that cant afford or aren't allowed F35)
Logan Bell
The picture explains that the RAAF figure is based on low flight hour aircraft that are still in testing.
nothing to do with fuel costs.
The government doesn't tax it's own fuel, only fuel for consumers.
Jose Allen
>debunked!
Yeah, no. The fact that the Eurofighter turned out to be a good plane in the end doesn't negate its history.
Ian Rodriguez
Except the image was incorrect even at the time it was posted.
Evan Gutierrez
Except that image makes claims about the aircraft's performance and current capability that are completely untrue.
while i dont have links to hand, the claims over the contract terms were also wrong.
If you're curious i'm sure you can find the information yourself but i have little desire to find it for you or debate the issue as i suspect you're ideologically opposed to the idea of typhoon being a successful aircraft.
Noah Collins
comptroller.defense.gov
>F16 7.5k
>F18E/F 11k
>F35A 17k
Josiah Reed
Don't tell me they are actually buying Boxers with this KMW AGM module!? Because that would make my piepie really hard.
Benjamin Bennett
>implies you're a totally partirotic bongistani citizen
seriously if your definition of capable aircraft is gay faggot plane, that can't even maintain the operating rate because you have no spare parts, so you have to cannibalize its own kind, then I would seriously recommend you to receive a mental treatment immediately .
Eli Harris
>comptroller.defense.gov
Unsure what you're trying to prove?
The janes numbers in were from 2012 and used to prove that pre-cost saving operating costs were never as high as claimed. The chart explicitly states that development costs are part of the RAAF costs.
Your numbers are from 2017 when that development and low flying time is over.
This was never a comparison between Typhoon and F18 so i'm not sure what you're trying to argue about when no claims have been made and only data has been posted?
Jack James
What's with the flaccid penis cannon?
David Lopez
That's just a barrel protector, shaped that way so it can go over the driver's hatch when it's pushed up all the way.