What do you think about the connection between the StG 44 and the AK47?

This
The Germans were pretty much the first to successfully employ such a rifle. Although the AK47 is supposed to have taken inspiration for its bore from the Garand

>What do you think about the connection between the StG 44 and the AK47?
Obvious evolution of the subgun, simple as that.

General concept and ammunition idea, but that's pretty much it. One is a tilting bolt, the other is a multilug rotating bolt.

Personally I'd have to say that these two things are more important than some people so staunchly claim they aren't, but yeah, it's obviously no direct copy. Actually I give Kalashnikov a lot of props for drawing on some of his favourite design details from other weapons of his time and combining them successfully.

Kalashnikov saw one, said "That's pretty neat". Made his own, and his was better.

Ah yes the classic "The AK looks like an StG 44"

Some prototypes of the AK were literally an STG copy.
But eventually they realized it wasn't a great design, and just ripped off the M1 Garand instead.

No man, the internals are very different. Unless you're saying, he saw an assault rifle and decided to make his own different assault rifle.

Yeah, as I understood the story, Kalashnikov fought the Stg. 44 on the Eastern Front, thought it was a well idea and based the AK off of it. I'm not trying to say he copied it, but the story I heard says the Stg. 44 is explicitly the inspiration.

The AK is a copy of American guns, the M1, (bolt, long stroke) Remington Model 8 (Safety lever, magazine). The only German influence is the 7.92x33, which the 7.62x39mm copied.

He originally wanted to make an SMG. What we would call an "assault rifle" today might be considered an SMG by Soviet and some other military doctrines depending on things like barrel length and buttstock.

It's a SMG, full power select fire rifles were called "Automatic Rifles" because "Assault Rifle" didn't exist as a term yet.

>filthy Germans make rifle
>screw Germans! I make better rifle
Instead we got the AK

They have the same gas piston system you moron Kalashnikov took inspiration from captured nazi weapons you blind fuck

They’re both guns

Not the bore, but the whole locking system and bolt design

Mechanically yes. That's true. The AK in it's operation is more like a M1 Garand. Manufacturing wise, it's a total clone. Stamped steel parts everywhere. In fact they had to use captured German engineers to get their stamping up to snuff to make them properly. Intially they wanted the AK2 which was the stamped prototype in full production. That was problematic and a stopgap they make the AK1 with the milled receiver.

Stupid bullshit.

>ywn own surplus stg's that your grandfather passed downfrom his victories 70 years ago

>Remington Model 8
siiiiicckk

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I’d say one has stood the test of time and the other costs more than a house in Kentucky to own. If you’re trying to find a firearm that hasn’t taken inspiration from another firearm you’re going to have to find the first firearm ever made.

you forgot the grip

forgottenweapons.com/ak-and-stg-kissing-cousins/
modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/russia-assault-rifles/ak-akm-eng/

What about the AK-47 influenced STG-44, then

(I'd probably kill for one of these, but it's a pipe dream)

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The Stg44 was the first successful assault rifle.
The AK 47 the assault rifle perfected and mass produced to basically anyone.

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The cartridge. M43(7.62x39) was developed when they saw the Mkb42 and 8mm kurz in service on the eastern front.

I find it funny when people compare the two. The FAL is the same fucking design scaled up to 7.62nato the first prototypes were even in 7.92x33.

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The ak-46 was a ripoff of the stg
ak-47? Not really.

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the StG inspired the development of the AK, the latter certainly not being a mere copy of the former and having a very different mechanism.

AK47 still took plenty of operational clues from the STG44

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>Stg44 was the first successful assault rifle
dude what the fuck is the m1 carbine lmao
dude what the fuck is the fedorov lmao

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i have heard schmeisser was brought to kalashnikov after the war, but it could be wrong.

>dude what the fuck is the m1 carbine lmao
A pistol caliber carbine.
>dude what the fuck is the fedorov lmao
Not succesful.

>Not succesful.
Who won the war bitch nigger, the commies or germany?

the fedorov uses a full size 6.5 arisaka round, it's a shitty round,but it's still a rifle round.
The first true assault rifle probably is the 1918 ribeyrolles,they simply cut the rifle cartridge down.

>who won the war
Fedorov was also used in the Soviet-Finnish winter war and the russkies fucking lost, "bitch nigger".
Also
>implying that fedorov won ww1 and not glorious mosin

Brothers from another mother
>Same role
>Similar layout and profile
>Similar shortened fullsize cartridge
>Similar sheet metal construction (untill the Russians fucked it up)
But they are, in engineering terms, not related. Both are a product of a 1940's state at war though.

>He originally wanted to make an SMG.
No, the Russians were specifically looking for a rifle analogous to the Sturmgewehr.

I've never understood why people call the fedorov an early "assault rifle". it shoots 6.5 jap, which is NOT an intermediate round. its a full size rifle round. assault rifle = intermediate round in both semi and full auto.

>Who won the war bitch nigger, the commies or germany?
You might want to research the Brest-Litovsk peace treaty there buddy.

>dude what the fuck is the m1 carbine lmao
A rifle that can't even go full auto, therefore, not an assault rifle.
>dude what the fuck is the fedorov lmao
A crew served automatic rifle.

>fedorov
Hah yeah I also played battlefied 1 my dude, best gun ever amirite?

>bolt carrier/charging handle/piston
>LOOK GUY THE AK IS TOTALLY A COPY OF THE MP44

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What do you think about the connection between the M1 Garand and AK-47?

Fedorov wasn't crew served

And 6.5mm Jap could be considered an intermediate round compared to .30cal rounds going by muzzle energy. The former is producing ~1900 ft-lbs, the latter rounds are producing a minimum of 3000 ft-lbs and up.

Hang on, you forgot about the trigger too. It also uses cased rounds.

AK was inspired by stg but kalashnikov(not alone) improved stg so much that it turned into new weapon, there is lots of proof for that too.

Basically it is like saying that modern kevlar armour is copy of myeonje baegab that was made mostly out of cotton.

>AK was inspired by stg
Wrong.

they both look visually similar to the untrained eye

>small arms win wars
you're a fucking brainlet

For the Russians 6.5 Jap was an intermediate cartridge, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Improvement based on an at the time cutting edge weapon. And if the dumbass "Russia stole STG REEEEEE" meme is to be believed then the US stole Mauser with the Springfield, or that everyone stole from the Chinese since they had the first black powder weapons. Still want a 44 though.

>kalashnikov(not alone) improved stg so much that it turned into new weapon
So the entirely different bolt carriers, entirely different trigger groups, and entirely different stamping procedures mean the Kalash is an improved MP44?

The AK-47 is a copy of the STG-44 concept. End of discussion.

artillery does

The FN SCAR is a copy of the matchlock concept.

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M1 carbine was a carbine, M2 was a submachine gun. Just because you can shoot .357 out of a levergun doesn't make .357 a rifle cartridge.
Fedorov was a battle rifle.

Just because it's a piss weak full rifle round doesn't make it not a full rifle round.

For you.

>Manufacturing wise, it's a total clone. Stamped steel parts everywhere
That would make every stamped steel gun in existence a total clone of Stg44.
>In fact they had to use captured German engineers to get their stamping up to snuff to make them properly
Except Schmeisser actually failed to deliver a stamping technique that could be implemented on Soviet facilities, and technology for mass-produced stamped AKs was implemented only
4 years after he fucked off back to Germany.

7.35x51mm Carcano was even weaker than 6.5mm Jap, and produced only a bit more muzzle energy than 7.62x39mm (~1600 ft-lbs compared to ~1500 ft-lbs for the latter round). It's still a full caliber rifle round, yet it's an intermediate round by muzzle energy.

Praise the digits

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dumb frogposter

The AK has more in common with the M1 Carbine and the Remington Model 8

No. The gas piston system comes from the Garand.

You misunderstand. They weren't "AK prototypes", they had a large number of concurrent programs all sharing resources going on at the same time (for example, most of them ended up sharing the same magazine, which would eventually equip the AK), there was a token effort to clone the StG as part of this because muh due diligence. It was dropped quickly because the StG makes zero sense to make outside of an incredibly specific set of circumstances.

stg clone? who?

The piston, carrier, gas tube, etc. are all based on the STG design though.

forgottenweapons.com/ak-and-stg-kissing-cousins/

What do you mean "who"
The Soviets hacked together a handful of rough clones as part of the greater assault rifle program (the cloning probably isnt attributable to any one designer, they probably had interns handle it because it was so unimportant) because it's something that ought to be done to make sure you learn everything you can. They were then shoved aside and forgotten about because they were shitty clones of a shitty rifle and the effort was never intended to go anywhere.

AK rotating bolt design comes from FG-42.

Compare Kalashnikov to Browning. One genius designed weapons from the pistol to the heavy machine gun, the other "genius" decided to call it quits after 1 rifle.

By his official memoirs, Kalashnikov came upon the idea for his rifle by reading a book called "The history of firearms" and saw a lathe for the first time when he was 20 years old.

tl;dr German engineers in Soviet captivity made a weapon (hence a weapon with many visible influences from various design groups), the Soviets couldn't flat out say "The Germans did it lol" so they use the ideologically fitting "poor peasant superman" persona of Kalashnikov.

Nothing of surprise here. The Soviets had a history of actually rejecting better domestic designs in favour copying mindlessly from the west. Anyone who has experience in Soviet era audio tech is very well aware of this.

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No, the AK's bolt is based on the Garand's. Pic is an FG-42's bolt, next reply will be a Garand's, and after that an AK's

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Garand bolt

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AK bolt. The camming lug is moved to the top on the AK, while it's an extension of the right hand lug on the Garand.

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>the other "genius" decided to call it quits after 1 rifle.
t. never read about Kalashnikov's other works.

He was working on a machine gun, sniper rifle, before AK he was developing an SMG.

And before-before his recorded achievement is fitting a revolution counter to a tank engine.

ayy lmao it's fucking nothing.

The thing is - the main value of the AK is its cheapness of production. The mass usage of stamped details being the key feature. And there simply is no way that peasant thought it up.

The Kalashnikov story is like Neil Armstrong saying that "The Eagle has landed" and "One small step for man, on big step for mankind" were phrases that just "occured to him on the fly". Bullshit.

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The US did steal from mauser though, Springfield was sued and had to pay mauser a percentage of their profits.

Kalashnikov directly states in some of his correspondence that he lifted quite a few ideas from the m1 garand, the dual lug rotating bolt the long stroke gas piston. there's a few other minor similarities to the m1 garand. It definitely resembles the garand mechanically more than the STG. But the AK47 does borrow some ideas from the STG as well as concepts from past russian rifles and kalashnikov's own innovations.

except they are not, please leave the reddit gun jebus memes out

>the other "genius" decided to call it quits after 1 rifle.
please educate yourself, fag

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>People ITT think that Kalashnikov steal his design from German

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>US stole Mauser with the Springfield
Yup
>The War Department had exhaustively studied and dissected several examples of the Spanish Mauser Model 1893 rifle captured during the Spanish–American War, and applied some features of the U.S. Krag rifle to a bolt and magazine system derived from the Mauser Model 93, to produce the new U.S. Springfield Rifle, the Model 1903. Despite Springfield Armory's use of a two-piece firing pin and other slight design alterations, the 1903 was, in fact, a Mauser design, and after that company brought suit, the U.S. government was judged to pay $250,000 in royalties to Mauser Werke

>Lots of guns have magazines
>If you want a long enough sight radius you do that
>You circled the stacking swivel
>tangent sights are common
>dropped stocks were universal

Have you noticed how at a glance all military bolt guns are shaped the same too?

Eh, the Soviets were working on a rifle like that since '43 and Kalashnikov decided to base it off of the M1 Garand. STG had a locking block bolt, not the rotating bolt, nice try

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They are the same people that think Nazi was using alien technology and Hitler is a defender of the right wing

>it’s weaker=intermediate

So if you chambered a BAR in 7.62x54r it would be a assault rifle by US standards?
Or a better idea
You’re just retarded and watched weaponoloy too much

>STG had a locking block bolt, not the rotating bolt, nice try

that is still too complicate for them.

These people would gas themself but won't admit that AK and MP-44 are too different gun

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but on the pic u post is NOT AK 47, but czechoslovakian rifle VZ Sa. 58 ;) It is better version and cheaper then Russian AK... ;)