>The German and French governments have given their respective industries the go-ahead to develop a new fighter aircraft to strengthen bi-lateral defence co-operation and to ensure continued operational sovereignty.
France is taking the lead role for the fighter, while Germany got the lead role for the European drone program MALE. With a single nation taking the lead role, Germany and France are trying to avoid problems and delays of previous multi-national projects.
The new fighter is supposed to be operational in 2035-2040 and will replace both Eurofighter and Rafale in both nations.
Germany still needs to replace their Tornados in the near future.
The options are F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler derivative, F-15 Advanced Eagle, F-35A Lightning II or the Eurofighter Tranche 4. Important is the ability to carry nuclear weapons as part of the nuclear sharing doctrine, so the USA is doing everything to not give the Eurofighter the ability to carry US nuclear weapons.
Julian Sanchez
Noice
Kevin Williams
And unlike all those other next-gen fighter projects from countries like Japan, Korea or Turkey (lel). This is gonna happen for real.
Too bad UK went full retard regarding to Europe and killed a large part of their aerospace capacities.
Robert Morgan
Can they pull off anything resembling US latest gen stealth? European defense programs don't have the infinite funding that is available in the US.
Luis Rogers
>Can they pull off anything resembling US latest gen stealth?
yes
Gavin Ramirez
>Eurofighter Tranche 4
There is no such thing.
Tranche refers to incremental improvements during production.
FGR4 is a UK specific version with hardware and software upgrades.
Germany would get tranche 3 with software upgrades which would still be a big improvement on what they have.
Liam Williams
You don't read much aerospace news do you?
Ryan Cox
>Hey Lockheed, can you give us a boost on stealth technology >Sure senpai, that'll be a billion buckeroos >Thanks senpai, the U.S. governemtn won't be mad will they >Nah senpai, we won't let our employees bother you.
Josiah Powell
I think selling stealth fighters to other European countries would be way more profitable than transferring tech to Franco Germans
Adam Taylor
If Germany decides to replace their Tornados with Eurofighters then a Tranche 4 will happen.
Paltzo noted stuff like engines with 15% more thrust and various upgrades regarding to SEAD.
Sebastian Ortiz
UK is pretty much at a dead end as aircraft designing nation.
At least Rolls Royce would have been the natural choice to provide the engine for such a next-gen fighter but well...
Leo Mitchell
The French will contribute their VTOL technology to the aircraft. Giant Frog Legs that propel the ship instantly into the air upwards of 1200 feet per second. No other country possesses this technology but the French
Eurofighter, of course. Who the fuck would want to touch anything *merican with a two meter stick?
Adrian Allen
>operational in 2035-2040 and will replace both Eurofighter and Rafale in both nations
That's quite some time away will Ibrahim Schmidt be the pilot and Gunther Mohammed be his wing commander?
Jacob Hernandez
people that actually use their planes
maybe they can throw in some broomsticks for the gun pod
Easton Clark
>If Germany decides to replace their Tornados with Eurofighters then a Tranche 4 will happen.
Impossible.
I dont think you understand the tranch system.
It's not a system for marking upgrades like A B C D
Its a system for marking stages of production.
Eurofighter was brought into service while some features were still being worked on.
The initial production was split into three tranches, the first aircraft were being retired and replaced with the 2nd tranche and then 2nd retired and replaced with the 3rd.
some nations didn't bother trading aircraft in for the 2nd or 3rd tranche.
Initial production is now pretty much complete so all aircraft are the baseline Tranche 3.
These tranche 3 aircraft can then receive further updates which gives them a new block number.
All future typhoons will be Tranche 3 block XX
aircraft with large numbers of modifications (such as those for the Uk or Kuwait) will get a new names - such as FGR4
Jacob Carter
The F-22 was in the air by 1997. This wants to be operational about 40 years later. Yeah, they can match it. Matching what the US can have in the air by the same time, that'd be harder.
Jonathan Rivera
thanks for confirming that your national biases are stronger than your desire to be informed.
I won't waste my time.
Samuel King
Paltzo clearly stated if the Eurofighter gets produced past 2019 then a Tranche 4 will happen.
Christian Smith
>The F-22 was in the air by 1997. This wants to be operational about 40 years later. Yeah, they can match it. Matching what the US can have in the air by the same time, that'd be harder.
The EU especially France and Germany have excellent technology. However much less of it is dedicated towards military applications. Also their budget for military expenditure is much smaller.
Ryder Lee
>I have nothing to say
Henry Edwards
>Paltzo clearly stated if the Eurofighter gets produced past 2019 then a Tranche 4 will happen.
Upgrades past 2020 are already funded and planned for the UK and other export customers.
None of these upgrades will be a new Tranche.
You don't seem to grasp the tranche system. It is impossible for a new tranche to exist after initial production has finished.
all new Eurofighter will be tranche 3 with some moniker such as P3E OR they will have country-specific designations.
Please don't make me repeat myself again, i'm trying to help you.
Tyler Jackson
>The director of the Eurofighter GmbH doesn't know what he is talking
The FGR4 Eurofighters are also >Block 5 aircraft
Oliver Rodriguez
>>The director of the Eurofighter GmbH doesn't know what he is talking
You haven't quoted him. and you won't be able to quote him saying anything about Tranche 4.
>he FGR4 Eurofighters are also >Block 5 aircraft
Jesus Christ. if you don't know what you're talking about.
If FGR4 is Block 5 (Tranche 1) then please explain the IRST.
do your research before you volunteer your opinion.
Brandon Reyes
FGR4 is also only a designation for Fighter, Ground attack, Reconnaissance.
Previous Eurofighters were only fighter with the designation F2.
between the F2 and FGR4 there was also a T3, which is the trainer variant.
FGR4 are also at least block 5 & 8 aircraft, because block 5 was when the Eurofighter got (basic) air-to-ground capacities. It's also mentionworthy that the RAF Tornados are still the main air-to-ground attack aircraft.
Bentley Flores
I don't know why they fucking wasted time with a project with Germany, Dassault and Airbus will build this plane, which means it will be 75% French, Dassault could've made it by itself, we have technology better than the Germans, better air building experience and great engineers.
Maybe it's just for MUH UNITED EUROPE, or to lower the cost by making the Germs pay for the project too
And now not being part of a next-gen fighter project.
Maybe Turkey is building a stealth fighter for real... eh.
Landon Foster
AHAHA
I literally just found what you are using as a source - a forum post from 2010 that explains a lot.
I'm done with you.
Charles Mitchell
>yphoon FGR4 Single-seat Block 5 or later aircraft (built or upgraded from F2) are known as Typhoon FGR4s.[23][24] The new mark number represents the increased capabilities of the Block 5 aircraft (fighter/ground attack/reconnaissance). The FGR4 has from June 2008 achieved the required standard for multi-role operations.[25]
I bet wiki is wrong too
oh boy
Nathan Wilson
Not an air fag, so a few questions: - Pointy nose... It seems obvious, why is it worth pointing out? - Flat pylon... Is that what holds the tank? Why is it worth pointing out? - Sawtooth shaping, what do those do?
Bentley Evans
> anything resembling US latest gen stealth
I don't think you read the post.
Juan Lee
FGR4 is just a designation for multi-role capacities.
Like the F/A-18 thing which refers to fighter and attack aircraft.
Matthew Sanders
You're a giant British fag
I meant that we can easily build it, and it will be much better than the F-22 Don't forget that it was a French who designed the F-16 and A-10
Gavin King
The UK is currentlty a major partner in F-35, an equal contributer in FCAS with France, a primary source of development assistance with Turkey, and already in cahoots with Japan for continued aerospace development.
Why would they want to abandon their already existing, working, and acquired 5th gen program to do even less work on a Pan-Euro one where they won't have the same level of high end tech to provide and work with, won't have the same budget with the US being involved and won't have anywhere near the same through life support development or purchases?
Also your source doesn't back up what you said about a large part of British aerospace having been "killed", still waiting for a source on such a thing happening.
Thomas Myers
You have a fundamental failure to understand the program.
Block 5 is Tranche 1 and Block 8 Is Tranche 2.
These airframes are taken and upgraded to Tranche 3 with UK specific upgrades to make them into FGR4.
Not a single FGR4 is considered Tranche 1 or Tranche 2.
By definition it is impossible for an FGR4 to be anything other than an FGR4.
The baseline airframe before the upgrade is irrelevant.
Luke Allen
I bet the RAF would be quite happy with Germany buying more Eurofighters as Tornado replacement.
Which would mean more funding for air-to ground capacities, especially for SEAD.
John Bailey
>(You) >You're a giant British fag Wut? OK, yeah sure, british fag... Do you know the answers to my question you giant french douche?
Josiah Price
And you are wrong
FGR4 only refers to Typhoons past block 5.
Jace Moore
I think Germany would be even happier since they can continue to operate an existing aircraft.
They can't afford F35. upgrading Typhoon is their only real option.
Tyler Lee
It's really absurd how they can make themselves so irrelevant so fast.
Daniel Brooks
Are you on drugs?
Henry Nelson
>while Germany got the lead role for the European drone program MALE Did they just assume its gender?????
Luke Hall
>I meant that we can easily build it, and it will be much better than the F-22
Ah, I see Rafalefag is here.
Michael Peterson
In red are features that increase Radar Cross Section, in green those that decrease it.
Joseph Wright
OHHH BOY
so what will happen first, german decide under fund the fuck out of program or french bail?
Samuel Williams
So it appears
France lead role for the fighter Germany got the drone and the aircraft engine
If Germany also got the lead role for the tank, it would mean they got the best deal out of the Franco-German projects.
Luis Campbell
>FGR4 only refers to Typhoons past block 5.
Then explain why the RAF has Tranche 1 aircraft of block 5 that are not FGR4.
All FGR4 are part of Tranche three, and all of them have the UK specific upgrades to DASS and so on.
Kayden Evans
You are full of shit.
So all official sources and wikipedia are wrong and only you are right.
Justin Thomas
You think Germany - who can barely afford to maintain their existing fleet of typhoons - should introduce a 2nd aircraft type rather than consolidate on an existing in-service airframe that can do everything they need.
Juan Adams
Sweet, thanks!
Brody Carter
>15% more thrust
The Eurofighter is already a kinetic rape machine with outstanding thrust to weight ratio. Adding 15% more thrust would make is a fucking space aircraft.
I like how you've still not come up with the tranche 4 quote.
Matthew Cox
yeah... and these things cost a lot of money to develop so the guy you are replying too is right.
Zachary Gomez
Cool shit desu.
Japan is perfectly capable of building a 5th gen fighter, Korea isn't and Turkey just LMAO. Just what made these retarded kebabs think they have the capacity to build a 5th gen plane?
Anthony Foster
>Joint German-French project
NOTHING CAN POSSIBLY GO WRONG HERE!
John Peterson
Your article doesn't state anything
Hudson Sanchez
Too expensive for a single nation to build such an aircraft.
They are actively looking for a partner nation, though the requirement will make it impossible. Any nation which want to join Japan needs to accept that the radar and engines are designed and produced by Japan.
Brandon Campbell
>Turkey just LMAO. Just what made these retarded kebabs think they have the capacity to build a 5th gen plane?
I mean it ins't like they've ended up with a tinpot populist dictator recently who'd be likely (when he isn't fucking goats) to spray the bullshit all around to whip up jingoistic fervor. Like, for example, claiming they're gonna build a fighter just as good as what the west is doing.
Thomas Cook
>The approval, which was announced by the defence ministers of both countries during a ceremony at the ILA Airshow in Berlin on 26 April, gave the official governmental green light for work to commence on developing a fighter aircraft as part of a wider Future Combat Air System (FCAS) project that will comprise a range of new airborne weapons and unmanned systems.
>Given the software limitations of the T1, the RAF has decided not to try and upgrade these particular platforms with the Phase Enhancement upgrade packages that will afford the T2 and T3 platforms with the full swing-role capability set. As such, they will be used solely for air defence duties, and perhaps for adversarial air combat training for other RAF aircraft types.
Block 5 aircraft that have not been updated to FGR4.
>The Typhoon had been developed and promoted as a ‘swing-role’ platform, meaning it was equipped with sensors and weapons suitable for multiple roles in a single mission. This complex capability was to be expressed incrementally through the production programme, but with the possibility of a Typhoon deployment under Operation Herrick, the UK added an austere air-to-ground capability to its Tranche 1 jets from 2008, modified aircraft introducing the T.Mk 3 and FGR.Mk 4 designations.
Camden Ward
That gif...HOLEE FUCK
Elijah Evans
>I don't know how aircraft development works, the post
When producing combat aircraft you need more than jet engine fanblades and radar modules.
Austin Mitchell
Makes me wonder if the cranked arrow delta-wing design was just artist being artist or if they are going with it for real.
cranked arrow delta-wing + two state of the engines That's some nice combination for some outstanding supersonic performance.
>the UK added an austere air-to-ground capability to its Tranche 1 jets from 2008, MODIFIED aircraft introducing the T.Mk 3 and FGR.Mk 4 designations.
Anything from T1 Block 5 can be MODIFIED to be an FGR4 - the software is added and the aircraft rebuilt.
T1 aircraft before Block 5 can't be turned into FGR4 - it's these aircraft that the UK still has and is planning to press into service as two purely fighter squadrons.
To make an FGR4 you still require upgrades that are UK specific, mainly the full pretorian DAAS.
Luke Evans
>Franco-German fighter >butthurt bongs
That's so funny.
Nicholas Turner
Well, the RAF will start to replace their Eurofighters around 2040 as well. Makes one wonder what are they doing.
The F-35 isn't really enough to fill the gap of the Eurofighter.
Carter Hall
Pierre Sprey isn't French and didn't touch anything related to F-16 or A-10 design
Luis King
>Don't forget that it was a French who designed the F-16 and A-10 LMAO
Daniel Gomez
>2040
So around the time the Su-57 is operational.
Jonathan Cooper
They'll probably get on board with the US Sixth Gen.
>Turkey just LMAO. Just what made these retarded kebabs think they have the capacity to build a 5th gen plane? It's a joint venture with Rolls Royce and the British government. It has a better chance of happening than the French-German project.
>fight that starts within visual range against a raptor youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ A T-38 gunned an F-22. I know F-15E guys who have done the same in actual BFM engagements (not just someone sneaking up like in the video.) Pilot skill can still win over jet performance. The skill required for pilot in the inferior jet has to be greater of course, but it can be done. Rafale is really great at WVR engagements and this pilot was just better/more experienced. F-22 shouldn't be in WVR engagements at all though and 2 F-22s vs 4 Rafales, the F-22s will win every time, even with barely average pilots vs highly skilled Frenchmen. Chances are that the Rafales would die before they even knew someone is there, and even if the first wave of missiles miss, the raptors will already be in a premerge mentality ready to finish the job vs rafales just now learning that they are being engaged.
Liam Diaz
They can always try to make a Commonwealth fighter...
Ayden Cook
>That moment when your country has had the greatest air superiority fighter production-ready for almost 20 years now and German-cucks are just now making a copy of it 'Murica. t.burgerland
you mad eurofags?
Carson Morales
What And pol is that way Rafale RCS is so small the F-22 can't detect it until it reaches approx. 100 km, by then after 5 seconds the Rafale would've detected the F-22 at 40km range, so it makes no difference
Rafale has shown that it has better manoeuvrability than the Fail-22
Jonathan Harris
Airbus can't even get parachute jumps in sticks to work from A400M, not they want to build a 5th gen fighter.
>Rafale RCS is so small the F-22 can't detect it until it reaches approx. 100 km, by then after 5 seconds the Rafale would've detected the F-22 at 40km range, so it makes no difference
This is so retarded it hurts
Jonathan Flores
>What Don't act stupid sampaix. Not everybody is a 70 IQ African like yourself, your cover has been blown.
Jaxon Cruz
>muslim designed fighters
Justin Scott
... how fast do you think these jets are moving? 30km (assuming they move at the same speed directly towards each other) in 5 seconds? Really?
Camden Nguyen
>the F-22 can't detect the Rafale at long range >but the Rafale can detect the F-22 at short range >but the F-22 still can't detect the Rafale at short range? not sure where this is going
And even with our magical mach 17 jets, getting a five second head start on killing your enemy before he kills you apparently isn't something that matters.
Thomas Perez
>sampaix You kids and your weird terminologies these days...
Isaiah Rodriguez
the only butthurt bongs i have seen are the two arguing about the block 5 to FGR.4 upgrades mate.
