Russian Special Forces shoots the ground - ND or "crowd control method"?

>Also, isn't there a significant risk of ricochet if you are on a solid surface?
Yes there is.

Yes, but the ricochet would be most likely to hit either the unruly person trying to break through the FSB line or the hostile crowd behind him.

Russians have much less conpunction when dealing with rioters. In the West, rioters try to get right up to the line to make the police overreact or back down. In Russia, rioters understand that if they push the riot cops, the riot cops will shoot them, have them thrown in a labor camp for 20 years, and everyone will call them heroes for it.

Riot control. Shooting the ground then shooting into the air is considered an escalation.

yes

Are you autistic?

>Being this triggerd

They watched too many looney tunes cartoons when growing up.

The whole point is to point the gun straight at the ground so it doesn't ricochet at all. You'll just splash everyone in the legs with pieces of bullet. If you have pants on it probably won't hurt at all but that's not the point. You're discharging your firearm because the situation involves too many people, and discharging it normally could easily strike a non-intended target.

Most people fucking run away when a gun goes off.

>Also average FSB operators don't really do that whole shooting each other stuff, the instructors just did that to impress Larry Vickers because they knew he was retired Delta and a decent shot, so just shooting fast and accurate wouldn't be very impressive to him. FSB has a dedicated "trick shooting" unit that does these shows to impress others and the public because those brick breaking VDV shows are kinda of outdated these days.
So just spectacle for the audience then, same old same old.
I wonder if the units that do these types of things know that anyone with even a little basic understanding of the relevant subject will just think they are a cheap party trick?

That was 100% a ND and stupid Russians claim it was intentional. Russian jackass probably did the second one on purpose to justify the first ND. Only a complete fucking idiot would not realize that shooting the ground like that could cause ricochet or fragment shrapnel to hit you or someone else. Russians are retarded.

some "dont give a fuck" police (ie, RUSSIANS) will do that to scare people off and break up riots and stuff

Shut up vatnik

You didn't read the entire post did you shillite?

I don't believe it was an ND. If you pause at 3:36-3:37 or again at 3:58 and 4:06 you can see his trigger finger is indexed along the slide, proper trigger discipline. At 5:12-5:15 when they do a slow-motion replay of him shoving the guy and shooting the ground you can clearly see him moving his finger from index to the trigger and pulling it in what appears to be a deliberate motion.

Now this "technique" as a crowd control method I think is completely asinine and begging for an injury in the foot or god forbid the femoral artery. I seriously hope this isn't an actual method used by the Russians and is instead their idea of hardass coolguy shit that will impress the risk-averse Americanskis- kind of like Serbs and other second-world goobers doing silly stunts like rolling under moving tanks. I'm sure the Russian public and maybe their conscripts would think this is badass and edgy but a professional really ought to know better. In my amateur opinion any variation of the "warning shot" as a crowd control tool for foot-mobile individuals is dumb and a waste of precious time and ammunition- if you need to discharge your weapon you should be discharging it into your assailants. I really think Russian operators are probably smarter than this, but I do recognize the possibility that they might actually be stupid.

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give us your knowledge senpai obviously you have graduated from every possible SD class available and your can now give us your unbiased knowledgable and objective opinion on the matter

Shooting straight towards the ground is part of the drill itself, in a range if you shoot upwards you have a stray bullet and if it hits a civilian area the range could be sued and closed down, if you shoot at your buddy's legs it's asking for an accident to happen plus it break the 180 rule of the range.

I'll never understand the 'warning shots are never a good idea' meme. It is beyond retarded.

In Canada warning shots are jail time, so that explains the leafs

Most jurisdictions with a legal system rooted in English common law stipulate that a civilian can't use deadly force (discharging a firearm) unless they fear for their life.

Firing a warning shot could be interpreted as use of lethal force without fear for their life, as if they'd been seriously frightened they'd have tried to take decisive action to end the threat permanently.

>What happened?
>He demanded my wallet, so I shot into the dirt to show him I was not about to put up with nig-noggery!
>Book 'em, Danno. Attempted murder.

From a military/LEO perspective, generally speaking, warning shots aren't a great tool because it reinforces the natural inclination of most humans to not kill other humans.

Firing over heads, pretending to fire in combat, repeatedly reloading muskets that haven't been fired once, these are all observed reactions to combat that modern militaries/tactical training tries to overcome.

Keep it simple.

the very nature of this drill is in violation of pretty much every aspect of firearm safety, dude.

I don't think it's crowd control. I think it's training to draw distance, the shove, and then put the threat down, albeit without the step of aiming.

Who knows, though? Those crazy Ruskies.

I forgot to mention besides "feared for my life", "feared for (third party's) life" and "they were committing rape" are generally acceptable justifications.

These guys are fucking nuts. Shooting him in the vest and then letting him shoot right past his head? This whole video is just fucking retarded. Stupid Russians shouldn't be armed.

This shit. And the cops are something else. Their swarming tactics make jaws drop at how utterly efficient and unpredictable they are.

>Larry fucking Snickers
>20 years in delta force
I'd say he's been shot a lot worse before.

Yeah the legaleese side of it is clear but practically they have a place.

I can't say that they're useless, just that I personally feel there are too many variables and practicing them would be to train negative.

Larry's video is tame compared to what they did in the Army-2017 event:
youtube.com/watch?v=zsIIyYWSfqU

This one will blow your mind:
youtube.com/watch?v=xObykrVBGD0

vodkanigs are dumb.

I mean yeah that's cool for show and making your average person think "wow russians do this and no one else does they're awesome" but I dont see how this is practical practice unless its confidence building training or something

Adding on, I just finished the second video and yeah, fucking unnecessarily risky, good way for someone to get fucking shot

handbeezy.com/cnbRaqWJd/

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It's possible those are simulated shots, but i don't why someone unarmed would jump on an armed person like that instead of simply trying a neck choke or grabbing the arm holding the pistol and trying to wrestle the pistol out of his hands.

>From a military/LEO perspective, generally speaking, warning shots aren't a great tool because it reinforces the natural inclination of most humans to not kill other humans.
Military and LEO perspectives should be markedly different on this point.

I would agree philosophically that war fighting and domestic policing are VERY different roles, however, the real world trends are clear, where MIL goes LEO follows.

My comments should not be construed to be an endorsement of military tactics in peace time police activities, merely a reflection on the realities of training and human nature.

Got any examples to share? This stuff sounds pretty interesting.

I find it very hard to believe that Alfa members would be giving some random burger the time of day.

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>These guys are fucking nuts.
They want you to think that. I bet they did this just for show, to impress 'Murican guest. Anyway, sounds like they are not your average LEO, but FSO operators (Russian analogue of Secret Service) and catching a bullet it's their prime job.
>how this is practical practice
It's not, those are Kalashnikov's test team, not MVD/MoD/FSB.

All Russian women don't desire American men?

>Much like the T-14 incident Americans have to nitpick something so they can claim that Russia is falling apart and that Russians are all incompetent drunks and that Russian women all desire an American men.

I support this statement

>It's not, those are Kalashnikov's test team, not MVD/MoD/FSB.

All of whom are trained by Andrey Kirisenko and Vsevolod Ilin and/or their instructors.

Larry did meet some real FSB guys during his trip and this is what he wrote on Facebook:
>>I will have to say I am very impressed by this unit. As an American I started this trip with fairly typical preconceived notions about them. What I actually found with the real deal tip of the spear “Russian SOF” is a group of dedicated, professional, well trained, solid shooters who are very switched on to the latest trends in firearms, gear, and accessories.

For all we know all those guys on the video could be Kirisenko's instructors or buddies, notice that they mention only shooter himself as an operator and he is using a Strizh pistol, at the time that video was recorded only high-level competition shooters around Russia had samples of that pistol, the famous and important guys around the industry basically, the FSB probably had some for evaluation but would he be allowed to take it our of the armory to use it on a civilian range to film a video with an American TV crew? I'm not sure.

Attached: Larry Vickers and Alpha.jpg (960x720, 117K)

That's insane

>Crowd control
>Cop shoots his own balls off
>Cop: Now pick it up!
>Mob paralyzed with fear

Mfw American cops do it all wrong

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