Battle Rifle General /brg/

verry nice

I can't decide between a Hakim, FAL, and PTR as baby's first big boy rifle.

FAL

Hey guys, OP here, I learned about the CETME type C, are these worth getting? I understand they are the predecessor of the G3 and are Spanish, but the prices on the parts kits I have found so far are nuts compared to their HK made German counterparts.

So I haven't bought my first Battle Rifle yet but I know I want a FAL. Where should I be looking and what should I avoid?

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well first you need to avoid guns that have explosives packed into them

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I noticed there's a lot of Malaysian surplus .308 sitting around. Is it a good enough deal compared to most bulk .308 that I should pick it up now even though I don't have a .308 yet?

Why?

It's not awful. I bought a can of South Korean surplus and it seems to shoot fine.

Bumping with Rhodesia

God help me lads
I have a type 3 receiver but I want to a Rhodie build and my autism won't let go that they're supposed be a type 1.

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I slam it out of my M1A with no problems. That thing eats anything though. Even Tulammo except for a bad batch that blew up 3 different guns.
The Korean stuff is even better.

If were to get/make a thumbhole stock for a FAL would that cause any issues? I always liked the aesthetic.

Other than it's absolute heresy, no, it shouldn't affect anything.

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Maybe I've spent too much time on the falfiles but I've legitimately been scared completely off of steel case 308/7.62 NATO.
Have you run any Tula through a g3 or fal?

If it helps, I'd keep it wood.

Tula has always been fine in my PTR. Don't run steel in an FAL though.

I have a PTR 91 GI I bought a month ago or so, I keep hearing that steel runs fine in them so maybe I'll get over my phobia of it in that.
I'm still a hard pass on steel case in my current kit build FAL though.
Speaking of which I just ordered an Imbel parts kit this morning, so I'll be doing some FAL surgery in the coming weeks.

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Not sure how I feel about that, post pics when done tho

Well first it gummed up and then blew up in a Zastava M77PS. Case head separation after several jams.

Then I had a fuckton of it to kill off during a meet. Slammed about 100 put of my M1A no problem.
Then a gear queer with a DSA Voyager FAL wanted some ammo because apparently he didn't bring any. I asked if it would be safe with steel and he said yes. First shot case head separation and magazine blown out. Gun down and out.
Same day I loaded up my M1A and without warning on the first round in the magazine same thing. Case head separation, magazine blown out.

Magazine got bulged and generally all kinds of fucked. Stuck shell was removed with a broken shell extractor. Had the headspace checked to be safe but it's fine and the gun shoots just fine today. Not touching the remaining Tulammo though.

Another guy at the meet had a PTR that chewed through it. Jammed a lot though. That ammo is just plain bad. I've run 1950s-1970s Israeli ball that was safer and more reliable.

This. People shit on the M14 all the time but it's amazing that it can go from cycling weakshit steel case to M118LR without even adjusting a gas setting.

Thanks for the heads up, that echoes the horror stories I've heard.
From what you said about that user's DSA Voyager I'm assuming he had a fair bit of damage?

That's because it's overgassed by default with a bleed-off valve that opens once the piston reaches a certain point in it's travel. It's also pretty much impossible to bend the op rod because it's short-stroke.
At the end of the day it really is a product improved Garand.

That said case head failure is no joke and I'm not risking blowing up another $50 CMI 10/20 magazine when I still have a lot of Malaysian ball to chew through.

The m14 has plenty of quirks to it, and I will admit they are not my favorite battle rifle, but the self regulating gas system that works as well as it does is amazing and deserves credit.

I don't know. Magazine was wrecked. It didn't crack the receiver or bend the dust cover or anything like that. If I had to guess a broken shell extractor to remove the stuck case and he'd be back in action.

Found an old photo of the stuck case in my M1A. Same thing happened to the FAL and M77, although on the latter the magazine survived which is good because they're tough to find.

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It'll be a long time from now due to where I live currently. I'm planning for the future.

Damn that's brutal, ripped that case head off like a cajun on some crawfish.
My FAL that I have currently has a chamber that's rough as shit, got a Imbel kit on the way and am going to ditch the defective argie barrel, and the argie lower for the imbel bits.
Should come out nice as my receiver is an Imbel gear logo type 3 I bought a good 5 or so years ago.
Pic related is how rough my chamber is, and it's chrome to so it isn't taking any shit, I've tried to polish it but you know how hard that barrel chrome is.

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Chrome lining is no joke. I'm surprised how well mine is holding up considering all of the abuse it's been through.

I'd say it's keeper having taken that case head separation like a champ.

I'm interested in adding an FAL to the family. Is their a buys guide available anymore or can anyone make recommendations

It's an original 1962 H&R barrel too. I'm really happy with it. Suffice to say I had like a month long heart attack after it kB! on me. It was made in the 90s when SAI was still using USGI parts.

I think it depends on what you want out of it, if aren't going to shoot it a whole lot, such as just a fun rifle for messing around with the DSA Voyager would be a good choice.
A kit build for sale from a member on the falfiles forum might be something to look into as well, you can get a hell of a rifle that way for about what a new DSA cost.

>usgi parts
>original barrel
NOICE

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This is also why it functions flawlessly with an 18" barrel without any gas port size adjustment. Honestly the most balanced M14 I have ever laid my hands on was scout length.

Same exact thing happened to this FAL.
One of us managed to get it in slomo on camera too.

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Other than switching to brass cased ammo is there a good way to make cleaning ptr91 faster?

When I'm done cleaning my bcg I look like I slapped a minstrel show performer.

Cleaning inside chamber and recieved grooves is also really ducking annoying.

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oof

That's a rough chamber

Just shot 60 rounds of Tulammo out of my new PTR last weekend. Not a single issue.

There doesn't seem to be a Vietnam thread so I guess I'll ask here, since my question is related to a battle rifle.
Did we use any optics on our M14s in the pre- and early-Vietnam era, and if so, what mounts did we use? I'm getting an M1A soon and I want to put period optics on it for that sweet 'Nam aesthetic.

Just use irons for a while and see how you like it desu. Best irons out of the big three imo.

If it shoots anything like my Garand I don't doubt that I'll love it, and that I love the sights on my Garand is part of the reason I wanted to get an M1A over a PTR or an FAL. But I want to put optics on its because I want to try shooting at longer distances but don't want to do anything to my Garand/don't have the money for an M1C or M1D.

If you plan on just mounting temporarily to shoot at long ranges I would recommend basset.

It even has good return to zero after dismount and mounting.

youtube.com/watch?v=BOdjYjOUFd8

An addition, scoping the M14 is fun but it turns a sleek little battle rifle into the overweight tank and moneysink for the search of "accuracy" everyone complains about.

If you want to stretch out the 7.62 cartridge in a semi auto I would definitely recommend spending half and building or buying a factory built AR10 that is likely to be sub MOA out of the box.

Don't let /ARG/ hear this, but I'm not really a fan of AR patterns. There's just something weird and *off* to me about the way they handle compared to a Garand or M14, so I'm willing to deal with a tanky monster of a rifle if I can continue using a rifle I'm comfortable with.

I'm well aware that the M1A isn't meant to be a sub-MOA rifle, and I'm not really looking to turn it into a tack driver; I just want to have fun with a sexy rifle.

But, PTRs are easy to clean.
And why would brass case be any cleaner?

Brass cases will swell to fit the chamber walls, they don't allow much gas or carbon to blow back from the barrel. Steel cases don't expand as well and they tend to leave your chamber and breech face a little more dirty.

Phrasing

3/10, you made an attempt

How do you clean yours?

Mine gets filthy after like 20 rounds.

My hands are too fat to reach into chamber easily and clean out where bolt locks in or the grooves where the bolt rides.

It's my 18th birthday today. How'd I do? Its a PTR 91 and was $1,270 (perhaps a bit over priced, but I was to impatient to wait)

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Definitely a bit over priced, but ya dun good son.

Built a DPMS pattern AR-10.
It shoots smoothly and I don't get any FTF or FTE, plus the brass lands in a neat pile at my 4 oclock.
It shoots about 2-3 inches with surplus MEN 7.62 and still only about 2 inches moa, maybe a bit smaller, with 168gr Federal gold match at 100 yards
I shoot 10 shot groups, but each smaller groups aren't that impressive. It seems to be consistently 2 moa.
The barrel is 18" 1:11 twist poly rifling from black hole weaponry.

Is this normal for an ar-10 or are these unusually bad groups? What can I change to tighten this up to ~1 moa? I already have a free-floating handguard and the barrel nut is tightened correctly.

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This was with a 6x scope off a bipod, btw.

You might be able to tighten up the groups with a little tinkering, or handloading a charge weight your gun seems to prefer. Chances are though that you will have a hard time breaking 1.5 MOA, even with handloads, unless you shoot from a vice like a lead sled. I guess start with these two questions:
>Did you buy a match grade barrel, or whatever was affordable?
>Have you been able to shoot 1 MOA groups consistently in other guns, with 10 round groups?

I think you don't understand how the roller delayed blowback action works. it's a blow back system so it will get very dirty also there are grooves in the chamber if you haven't noticed that blow hot gas back into the action to assist in extraction so you don't have to use only lacquered steel case like the stg/mp44s did. It's going to get very dirty very fast so don't expect it to be spotless ever

You're comparing your 10 shot groups to the cherry picked 3 shot "groups" of people on the internet.
Nothing wrong with your rifle, plus you won't see the guns maximum mechanical accuracy without a good rest and removing the human error.

Nice buddy, happy 18th!

I have heard the the M5 upper from Aero will fit to the PA-10 lower from PSA but there will be a gap at the back, should I be concerned about this?

Aimpoint PRO came in and Im just waiting for lead time on rings now.

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>Want a Mini-30 for reasons
>$1000+
I need money

Now I dont want to say for sure yet as Ive only test fit and done some swingin around+dry firing with some loaner parts. But an 18” in a Profile 1 GI stock with ARMS 18, Aimpoint PRO, and LT719 rings. The rifle handles way better than youd expect from an M14 type with optics and for most shooters probably wont need a cheek riser. I havent weighed it but it doesnt feel that much heavier, probably at least in part due to the weight all being right at the reciever where its already a brick. I probably couldve still shaved some weight off but I prioritized lowest possible centerline and QD lever over weight.
If you havent seen it yet look up the Blackfeather RS. Its an aluminum chassis with a modified operating rod guide like the Sage EBR. Depending on the rifle you drop put into it you can see sub MOA. The big deal is unlike the Sage it weighs minimally more than a GI Profile 2 stock.

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>I need money
Sheeet, me too!

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Anybody know if wood stock buffers need a locking plate? Set didn't include one. I've never had to disassemble/reassemble one before and nearly all info I can dig up is on enhanced buffers.

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The 1-11 twist barrel might be the problem. I have a DPMS 7.62 heavy profile barrel in 1-10 and it shoots 1-2 MOA shooting PPU 145 gr M80 ball.

I'm the weak link in my rifle' s accuracy. Parallax error from poor cheek weld and flinching cause fliers

>Did you buy a match grade barrel, or whatever was affordable?
Blackhole is considered a good barrel maker afaik. The poly rifling makes them easy to clean too.
>Have you been able to shoot 1 MOA groups consistently in other guns, with 10 round groups?
I can shoot 1 moa easily on my ar15 using 62gr FMJ (not m855, it's some cheap magtech thing). Same optic, same bipod, also a black hole barrel.

This makes me feel better. Maybe i should get a rest one of these days.
My concern is that the bolt is headspaced just a tiny bit off or something.

Buy some gauges. Go/Nogo it, and take a case or whole bullet and black Sharpie it and feed it. If it scratches the black marking off in an odd way you'll know

Seeing how you can shoot 10-round 1 moa groups in your ar15 (nice) then it probably isn't you. Headspacing the rifle like says and handloading rounds is the next thing to try. Pay particular attention to the COAL and try to get the bullets .003" to .005" off the lands, this will help. If you work up a load with a perfect powder charge (use a ladder test) and find the perfect COAL for your gun, this should shrink groups to at least 1 moa. If not, the gun just isn't meant to shoot 1 moa.

Again this all assumes you are a 1 moa capable shooter. I'm not a 1 moa shooter on most days, most people aren't. Nothing to be ashamed of, getting 2 moa with a semi automatic battle rifle using factory ammunition. Pretty good anyways.

How bad is the FA91 receiver really?
Like is it serviceable if youre good with fitting parts?
I got 1 thrown in with a parts kit but I heard they are pure trash.....I mean it doesnt LOOK all that bad as far as the milling and and fitting.

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Do yourself a favor and just don't risk it.
Get a ptr receiver, they do a good job on them and they're made using the machinery that Portugal received from HK.

alright.
anywhere to get them that they arent like $300?

All right /brg/ers
Tell me, should I get the extended inch type safety for my metric fal build or should I stick with the small nub original for aesthetics?
The rifle will be done up as a standard 50.00 style FN with no other mods.

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e-sarcoinc.com/ptr91receiver.aspx
Make sure you look it over though, Sarco has been known to sell off junk parts, though it's usually bad/worn out surplus.

The aluminum receivers are supposed to be hot garbage.

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Bumping for Rhodesia

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Wait what is this thing?
I have a PTR but I dont have a wood stock.

It's the buffer inside your stock, the other half of the recoil assembly behind the recoil spring. I don't think I need the locking piece, there's nothing for it to interface with.

Always heard some people have problems with Tula, and that Wolf is the way to go.

I can't speak for others experiences but I've put about 800 or so rounds of Tula through my PTR with no problems.

So all stocks have it?
Ive never opened up a PTR stock
Ive heard the same. I stick to wolf for my steel needs.

What sort of accuracy can I expect with:
PTR91
M1A scout
AR10 homebuilt
Using surplus and using handloaded ammo?
Assuming the shooter is taken out of the equation, i.e. shot from a rest.

>PTR and M1A
Generally 2 to 2.5 MOA without significant accurizing and handloads
>AR10
1.5 to 2 MOA with surplus ammo, down to 1 MOA with handloads and a good barrel typically

Which one is easier to clean?
I know the AR10 has the DI thing, and the PTR91 has a fluted chamber that farts some residue back into the chamber. Not sure about the M1A.

back into the action I mean

iktf
damn and I thought I was good...

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C... Can you help a brother out?

>tfw fal parts kit has shipped
Any of you fags building battel raffles?

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How hard is it to build a FAL from a kit in comparison to an 80% ar15?

The hardest part of building a fal is getting all the right parts and tools together and being patient.
It's literally
>hand torque and time barrel to 11 o'clock
>torque barrel to 12 o'clock, ~120 ft lbs
>use gauge pins to determine locking shoulder size for two thumb pressure close on Go Headspace Gauge.
>order correct locking shoulder
>press in locking shoulder
>recheck headspace
The rest is just assembling the small bits and bobs which can be done with a small hammer and punch, and a flat head screwdriver.
Certain circumstances such as the barrel not hand timing to 11 o'clock can mean filing or for more precision machining the barrel shoulder on a lathe, but that's really not a big deal.
You'll be spending more effort on just milling out an 80% AR receiver alone, though of course your FAL receiver will already be done because as far as I'm aware there are no 80% FAL receivers.

Im a different user. M1A is fuck easy to clean. Basic field cleaning:
>Stand up with rifle between feet
>Clean barrel from muzzle to rear
>Clean lead and/or carbon off outside of muzzle
>sit down and hold rifle across lap
>clear out the rails the bolt rides in
>clear out locking lugs
>scrub chamber and clear debris
>clean boltface and accessible crevices in bolt
>relubricate
You really should clean the gas system after youve put a lot of ammo through it. But it honestly doesnt seem to care from a reliability standpoint.
Process:
>Take GI disassembly tool and remove gas plug
>remove gas piston
>scrub gas piston and internal channels
>scrub gas cylinder walls
Done.
If you want to disassemble past that you can remove the trigger group and clean it as well as remove the bolt to clean the subcomponents. But the rest of it you can clean either by locking it back and scrubbing the face, or letting it forward and scrubbing the underside through the magwell. A small toothbrush can get to the rear through the hole under the clip guide. The only component not covered here is where the oprod interfaces with the gas piston, which will get some carbon fouling but its a nonissue till you get through at least a few thousand rounds.

Basically what Im saying is you dont even need to disassemble the M14/M1A to clean most of it apart from the gas system. Once its time for more thorough cleaning disassembly is easy enough only an absolute retard couldnt do it.
youtube.com/watch?v=QrdKOEhMlAU