China still operates the mig-21 in front line service

>Use B-52 that's over 60 years old
Is ok because we take care of them real gooood
>Use substandard Harpoon missiles
Is ok because they good enough
>China uses MiG-21
AHAHAHAHA is must be they are poor!

>B-52 useful
>Harpoon useful
>MiG-21 wastes pilots

Please explain how a mig-21 with an updated engine and avionics is useless?

It's China. They don't have manpower problems.

>Surrendering pilots
>Durrr it's okay we have tons of men
>Good idea

Lmao

Time to sign off, PeiPei

Easy.

There is only a limited number of times you can upgrade and update obsolete systems until they become too expensive to be useful, and there is a limitation to exactly how upgraded they can be, you talk as if the J-7s avionics are somehow modern or on par to fighters in similar role when it isn't. Throwing away resources and pilots into a system that can be beaten relatively easy by even reservist enemy air forces isn't a good idea, instead they should be phasing the J-7 out as quickly as possible, and retraining the pilots into a more modern aircraft.

Unless you think wasting pilots and munitions on an aircraft as obsolete as the fishbed is somehow a good idea, I see no reason why you would defend the idea of a military as modern as China's should waste it's time with such a dinosaur of an aircraft.

>KLJ-6E Lieying
>Type 222
>updated

No, these are not updated, even 80s era F-16s have better avionics with APG-66 in 1981.

They're great for CAS. Mach 2 max speed and cheap as fuck. They sell on the international market at only 2-3 million. Presumably maintenance is cheap as fuck too.

>MiG-21
>CAS

LMAO THAT'S EVEN WORSE THAN BEING USED AS FIGHTER HAHAHAHAHA.

No, the double delta J-7s are used for local air defense fighters, they're deployed in large numbers to deter enemy fighters.

Yes this is a zerg rush tactic, North Korea does the same with it's J-7.

>using an aircraft with 4 hardpoints and awful loiter as a CAS aircraft

lmao, the J-7/MiG-21 is absolutely not good for CAS at all, and nobody intentionally uses it for that either, if you said strike then maybe you wouldn't look so stupid, but even still explained the doctrine for the J-7 China uses

Offset by the fact that you could buy 30 of them for every j 15
IIRC J 7s have never been used in combat. Do you have some source for Chinese air doctrine

No him, but most J-7s that have any sort of actual operational history are foreign nations, and they use these mainly for air to ground, but China does arm their J-7s with PL-8s, but they do arm with with air to ground missiles as well, but him saying that they'll use them in a zerg rush tactic isn't too far fetched as that's mainly an early 80s era Chinese air defense doctrine, though I don't see it being useful at all as the J-7s avionics are completely obsolete, and impractical to upgrade to any sort of usefulness due to small nosecone.

Not against anything that isn't made out of fucking wood and canvas and has slingshots for armaments

>Capable interceptors
>Avionics that'd be lucky to see enemies at 60 kms
>PL-8 missiles. 4 of them max.
>Limited Range
>Limited altitude.

No it's not.

Sirry westerner, thats J-7, not made of stalinium, Maonium, totarry different.

Could it be possible to turn them into drones, or make them piloted by a retard untrained pilot?
>zerg rush the enemy
>21s are engaged BVR
>F35 spend all their missiles on these decoys and get shot down by the real planes

Well, surely it's possible, it's just a matter of time before the chinese copy this:

businessinsider.com/f-16-drone-have-raider-ii-loyal-wingman-f-35-lockheed-martin-2017-4

and apply it to his fuckhuge fleet of old planes.

So maybe the B-1R "missile truck" idea wasn't so retarded now.

Look at all you fuckers talking shit. Yeah its kinda ridiculous for China to be using them but they certainly still have a role with smaller countries. Syria is using them to good effect. The things are like the ak47 of the sky. Cheap as fuck, easy to maintain, simple to fly, plenty of available spare parts. They're great when fighting against a force that has no air power of their own.

Pretty easily. They've done the same for their tanks.

user... thats a platform that in around 40 years would have it's 100 birthday, there is no airframe that lasts that long, and not even that, but I do not even need to check if the range, autonomy and fuel consumption is much lower than any other relatively modern plane.

Wouldn't be surprised if some pilots die with the control wheel in their hands, after 7 catastrophic failures.

Even getting drakkkens is a better idea than putting grandpa against the younglings, the only ones who have an excuse are Africa tier nations facing enemies which concept of AA is throwing rocks very high, but do not have the money to develop their own cheap platforms.

Absolutely retarded. You can't zerg rush an even bigger zerg rush

Mate they built new ones. They are not using 50 year old airframes. Google says it's combat radius is 850km.

They're not for providing any sort of SEAD capability. They're for strafing and bombing rebels. And they're bloody cheap. A multimillionaire could buy one.

s are engaged BVR
>>F-35's spend all their missiles on these decoys and get shot down by real planes
Do you not realize the point of them engaging BVR in the first place? The 21 drones will get trashed and the 35's will fuck off to rearm before the "real planes" show up to another group of 35's ready to schwack them from BVR again.

I believe that combat radius is with 2 large drop tanks.

Then the Chinese planes chase them. They're all faster than the F 35. Even the J 7 has a higher max speed than the F 35.

The glaring problem with your scenario is however long your planes take to fly back and the next to replace them is time for the real planes to get closer to the objective and your airbase. Which both means you lose some range every time and they get closer to the objective.

Thats not possible when more than one group of F35's are airborne, if they rotate roles, the chinese wouldn't even be able to chase em

850km isn't a short distance.

Something is achieved for the Chinese if you have to have twice the planes to destroy them.

We are assuming that China would increase its total air force and have a number of planes equivalent to the US on the theater.

Also this. In certain situations cheap planes may be handy. I remember Syrian footage where they fitted dumb bombs on a SU-30. What a waste.

That might be a minor acheivement, but it still wouldn't be a victory.

>We are assuming that China would increase its total air force and have a number of planes equivalent to the US on the theater.

So, china has a smilar number to the US, bunt has way shittier planes?
So China could not win, in other words. Ok

Victory would come from other factors, like economics, load outs and speeds. Staggered f 35s or not, you need one missile per drone + real plane, because at the F 35 max speed it is easily outrun the Chinese planes. The F 35 can internally carry 4 AAMRAMs, if we don't assume externals because that would compromise stealth. You'd just need four times the fleet of F 35s in drones to use up their missiles. A j 7 costs 2-3 million for exports, so if the Chinese use all the American missiles and catch up, the economically the Chinese win by about eight times. 4, 2.5 million dollar J 7s destroyed for every 1, 80 million dollar f 35. There's also missile costs but those are in the range of one or so million, and we don't no Chinese missile prices.

>he thinks pilots are easily replacable

Aesthetic as hell

Nicest MiG-21!

Attached: J-7G (1).jpg (600x556, 79K)

Pakistan's version with AIM-9L

Attached: Chengdu_F-7_Pakistani_Air_Force.jpg (2100x1397, 2.27M)

Literally a tube with wings

still sold today to various african forces!
get your's now!

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Attached: J-7G 30350.jpg (800x619, 212K)

Just like in muh Red Dragon. Zoom in and drop two 500kg bombs.

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Also available with satellite guidance now.

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Attached: J-7E 20100 + ... - 9. Div lineup.jpg (1660x1080, 309K)

Derivate of the Grifo-7 radar.

Attached: J-7G_radar.jpg (550x464, 64K)

Missiles are cheaper than drones

Wooooow, 500 planes that don't work and 400 RC planes with an SKS strapped to the wing. Scary!

About 500 J-10 and 500 J-11s/Flankers of all variants.

Attached: PLAAF 4th gen fleet 2017.jpg (563x355, 37K)

Especially the J-10C keeps appearing in regiment and divisional sized formation without warning. Cant even keep up counting serial numbers.

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Same with J-16s.

It looks like Shenyang has totally stopped producing J-11s and other Flanker versions in favor of mass-producing J-16s and J-15s now, including their specialized versions like Ethe D-variants of Electronic Warfare planes.

Attached: 202832bzyaaey6ohty9upa.jpg (960x656, 205K)

>tiny delta wing
>no fuel
>nowhere to put armor
>can hardly carry any bombs
a MiG-21 may well be the antithesis of a CAS aircraft, user

CAS needs:
>loiter time
>payload
>durability
>good low level, slow speed, high AoA controllability

MiG-21 is basically a soviet f-104. It's super fast, super light and built to scramble to intercept bombers or maybe dogfight enemy escort fighters at high speeds and high altitudes. Not move mud with the choppers. I suggest you get a flight simulator and try landing the bloody thing, it hates going slow with a passion.

>mach 2
The thing about mach 2 capable airplanes is that the things that make a plane go mach 2 tend to conflict with the things that make a good CAS aircraft. Even dedicated strikers like Tornado, Viggen, F-111 or Su-17 aren't all that great at loitering over the battlefield and pinpoint striking goatfuckers.

Attached: download.jpg (273x185, 8K)

Latest regiment spotted sports these cool low visibility roundels and all-grey paintjob.

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The first regiment of J-16 had these dark blue/blackish paintjob and red roundels.

Attached: DOPZKPnX4AESx54.jpg (1200x837, 224K)

>They're great for CAS
They have short range, low payload, almost no loiter time.
Oh yeah, remember what happened when certain NATO countries were convinced they should use a high speed interceptor for ground strikes?
Lawndarts happened.

>Even the J 7 has a higher max speed than the F 35.
And will run bingo within minutes

>nowhere to put armor

>CAS needs:
>>durability
>>good low level, slow speed, high AoA controllability
You think the "Close" in close air support stands for close to the ground right?

While i agree that the MiG-21 is not a suitable CAS aircraft those points make you look like one of the BRRRRRTard fools that think all CAS has to be done at 500km/h 50m off the ground.

>I remember Syrian footage where they fitted dumb bombs on a SU-30. What a waste.
not necessarily, a bomb is a bomb and there are plenty of situations in which a modern aircraft with proper CCIP/CCRP bombing systems can hit a target effectively enough with dumb bombs for a much lower cost. That said in a clusterfuck like syria you're probably going to want to be using smart weapons anyway to avoid inadvertently hitting your own side/civilians/SF of another power. The reason Russia is strapping dumb bombs onto SU-30s is more likely to be a shortage of smart munitions than a lack of a low end attack aircraft.

How many Mig-21s could a single fully-loaded F-15C take?

you're not going to "chase down" jets that have gone cold back to their frontline unless you want to eat missiles from nearby CAP support or SAMs

good luck achieving that "top speed" in level flight to chase down F-35's you can't see, the J-7's would run out of gas instantly

If nothing else they can be used as kamikazes or cannon fodder. Cheap to replace and the chinks have millions of men to train.

C model can carry 8 AIM-120's max, interchangeable with AIM-9X's on the outboard rails

so 4 migs max? Or 16 S-27s missiles launched from 47 kilometres away.

what

The slavtard/bugman cant into the reasoning that missiles are not so unreliable that you always have to fire them in pairs.

But i don't know what this S-27 missile he is referring to is supposed to be.

>launched from 47 kilometres away
So in other words AIM-120Cs could be launched 15-50km (Depending on model) before these S-27 missiles would be in range?

And retards still think that they can compete with Russia or America

Before I die I want to see chinese MiG-21s and Turkish F-4s engage in combat.

Don't the Japs and South Koreans still have F-4s running?
That might be a easier match to accomplish.

fuckballs, meant R-27s.

effective range is 47 kilometres head on, 7 km tail-on, semi-active homing. 4 per mig.

notable because yemeni rebels converted some into Manpads and shot down a saudi F-15 a few weeks ago and Ukraine licensed R-27Rs to China a long while ago.

(not sure whether to trust the data on the PL-12 BVR missiles having 100km range, as I can't find information on effective range, merely "operational range", and if you go by THAT for the R-27R it has 80km range e.g. twice the distance it's any useful at)

So yeah, 5 migs to take down one F-15 operating under ideal conditions for both.

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>So yeah, 5 migs to take down one F-15 operating under ideal conditions for both.
You do know that a F-15 can launch 8 AIM-120s, turn around and GTFO long before the R-27 is even in range? (Active seekers)
And even if the MiG-21 carries R-27s (Never heard of it) and launch at maximum range and the F-15 doesn't turn, AIM-120s are going to hit first due to longer range, turning the semi active R-27s into lawn darts?

Every time the number gets passed through the great firewall it gets bigger

>notable because yemeni rebels converted some into Manpads and shot down a saudi F-15 a few weeks ago and Ukraine licensed R-27Rs to China a long while ago.
Most likely those were R-27T versions used in Yemen, much more likely to be effectively nigger rigged then a radar guided version.
Also probably more effective since it would be less likely to set off every warning light in the cockpit of the target aircraft.

>Bote with Jew nose
Lol
Wait
Wtf have you faggots done to me?
Y is that what I see everywhere?
I never used to be like that B4 coming here
FML

J-6's were converted to drones a long time ago, but I'm of the opinion that they were converted into target drones

>thats a platform that in around 40 years would have it's 100 birthday, there is no airframe that lasts that long
Hello, B-52 would like a word with you

yes, it's called operational production lines

>to trust the data on the PL-12 BVR missiles having 100km range
it's probably more for the latest tranche

>small countries that need to defend a small airspace.
That's what SAMs are for. Switzerland-sized countries having F/A-18s is just silly.

well, since you're retarded, ask yourself

>Switzerland
Maybe not the best example since its terrain make long range fixed AA terribly ineffective.

Of course they do. The MiG-21 is objectively the greatest thing ever conceived and is the patrician's choice in an interceptor. Everything else? Literally nigger-tier.

Old planes are better than no planes, i mean the Iraqis are using modified P-51s still

>Iraqis are using modified P-51s
Interesting. Source?

Absolutely remarkable. Also, it will soon to be upgraded with the latest quantum radar.

China truly grows larger each day.

My bad, it was actually a modified Cessna 208 they are using airforce-technology.com/projects/ac-208-combat-caravan/

Just put the SAMs on mountain tops.

*quantum mig-21

Genius!