There's no evidence that kinetic energy is a meaningful metric of bullet efficacy

Because..?

Not enough pressure.

A pellet gun to the spinal cord is more immediately lethal than 308 to the leg. Stoppan powah is great and all but it's far from the only important factor.

Case and point, some Soviet scientist survived a headshot from a particle beam going very close to the speed of light. Beam just bored a clean hole a few hundred atoms wide through is head.

The kinetic energy of a particle beam is microscopic. I heard a scientist explain the collisions inside the large hadron collider having as much kinetic energy as two mosquitoes crashing head on into each other mid flight at typical mosquito flying speeds. It's a retarded example to compare to firearms.

It's decently meaningful enough. If you wish to compare identical bullet weights with identical shot placements, the bullet with more energy will always penetrate deeper.
Of course if you want to compare two different rounds with different diameters, weights, etc on the pure basis of just their energy then things change, but it's generally a decent rule of thumb for determining how effective it'll be.

>compare identical bullet weights
Then you're not really comparing energy. You're just comparing speed. You may as sensibly use momentum instead of energy.
>generally a decent rule of thumb for determining how effective it'll be.
There is no evidence for that assertion.

>Vaporize hole through dudes brain
>He's fine
I'd say it's a pretty good example of terminal effects.

why is it more connected to speed than mass ? surely it is a matter of the potential energy in the powder being converted into pressure?

Youre correct. What matters more is how the energy is transferred to the target which involves two more metrics: shape and surface area. Like someone stated earlier, two people bumping into each other jogging has as much energy as a 357 magnum, but in the case of a 357 magnum, that energy is applied to a very, very tiny area comparably.

I have to explain stuff like this to my marines daily. It gets tiring on the brain. The crayons and alcoholism dont help either.

>why is it more connected to speed than mass ?
Because that's how physicists have defined it. These definitions are based on experimental observation and consistency with other physical definitions.
>surely it is a matter of the potential energy in the powder being converted into pressure?
Chemical potential energy is converted into heat, which creates pressure, which applies force over a distance for a period of time, which causes motion.

>This thread
>Again

Attached: 14098850067451.gif (235x150, 1.71M)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski

It was a 76 Gev beam, pic related.

0.000000012 Joules

A .22lr typically has about 170-200 Joules of Muzzle energy. The .22lr is 14 billion times more powerful than the particles in that beam. Yes they are going fast, but as I said before, they have microscopic kinetic energy. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Attached: retard.jpg (726x229, 21K)

>The crayons and alcoholism dont help either.
To be fair, crayons are made of paraffin wax, which is non toxic.The worst it could do is form a blockage in your guts.

Remember that kinetic energy is a measurement of the total kinetic energy that an object has, but does not totally represent all the nuances that go on when a round strikes a target. If you thought kinetic energy was the end-all, then obviously the solution is to have a really low mass bullet going super fast, but if you go too fast and are too low mass, you'll just zip right through the target and leave a little pinhole.

So mass, and how it is shaped, is one of the most important aspects of a round. Otherwise you can have tons of kinetic energy on paper, but dump a small fraction into the target.

This is why we have hollow points, to ensure we dump more kinetic energy into the target, and not what's behind it.

>a man running at full speed has more kinetic energy than a 357 magnum.
200lb man running at 10mph = 669 ft/lbs
125gr .357 flying at 1700fps = 802 ft/lbs
that is also ignoring the area at which the force is applied you fucking fucking imbecile which is why knives and arrows can go through bullet proof vests but not bullets even though bullets have more energy behind them.

while you are kind of right, you are way more wrong. we use a measurement to compare ammo to each other, just like we use ballistics gel to measure penetration. 1" of ballistic gel /= 1" of human tissue but because we can calibrate the gel and can approximate the conversion we can use it to determine effective penetration.
with bullets we want a standard measurement that takes into account weight and speed. thus we can compare KE between rounds. is it the end all be all of comparing? No, but it is a start and can give a person a decent idea of what kind of "performance" they will get out of the round.

>200lb man running at 10mph
thats being generous "average" running speed is about 8mph
175 lb man running at 8mph = 375 ft/lbs

>357 flying at 1700fps
That is a very hot load. Your typical 357 isn't that fast.
>that is also ignoring the area at which the force is applied
Oh, wait, I thought this was a thread about the merits of kinetic energy as a metric, exactly as I said in the OP. Now you're shifting the goalposts.
>can give a person a decent idea of what kind of "performance" they will get out of the round.
Prove it.

>Prove it.
.50bmg has more KE than a .22lr.
it also has much more destructive potential than a .22lr. this is because it is moving faster and is larger
im not going to prove this is a gel test

22/250 has more destructive potential than .223 because it is traveling faster, therefore more KE
youtube.com/watch?v=tdo1JC5fqPw
youtube.com/watch?v=I-Fox7v3W7E

>.50bmg has more KE than a .22lr.
That doesn't prove anything about KE.

>22/250 has more destructive potential than .223 because it is traveling faster, therefore more KE
So why not use momentum instead of KE?

because p also has a vector attached to it and it would be incredibly pedantic to get that into it? if you have no clue about physics go teach yourself or take a class.
no one said KE is the end all be all of bullet measurements, it is just the easiest to compare between bullet types. of course shot placement and bullet design are important when shooting, but thats not how you compare two things. you need to hold as many things equal as you can when comparing things. have you never taken a serious science or research course in your life?

>because p also has a vector attached to it
So? Stop evading the question. Why compare velocity squared instead of velocity or velocity cubed or any other mathematical function of velocity?
>if you have no clue about physics go teach yourself or take a class.
I took physics in college and passed with an easy A, thank you very much.

>Stop evading the question
then what is your question? because there are a ton of reasons in this thread as to why we use KE and how it is used. you are the only person that seems to have a problem with it.
>I took physics in college
wow, you're a genus, you took a physics class for non engineers. everyone clap.
the fact that you cant comprehend why we use KE to COMPARE and get a GENERAL IDEA of bullet performance means your a fucking retard or an autistic sperg than cant see the forest through the trees.

start here dummy
youtube.com/watch?v=a3yIQKpkyhk

Heat isn't the way guns get their propulsive force

Chemical energy is released as heat, but more importantly, is accompanied by a large amount of gas.

>what is hydrostatic shock

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It isn't, assuming bullets are meant to kill things. It's a great indicator of penetrative ability though, which is helpful.

a meme

>kinetic energy has no effect on bullets
>literally the mechanism behind how bullets kill
Yes user, bullets kill by just looking at you.

Attached: capitalistplz.jpg (276x280, 43K)

Bullets kill by demoralizing the enemy.

Attached: aliens-demoralized.jpg (736x532, 81K)

Try again...

According to the National Council on Strength and Fitness, the average human can run at the speed of 15 miles per hour for short periods of time.

.22lr will bounce around the skull not the body

> get hit by bullet that imparts 5 joules
> get hit by bullet that imparts 20,000 joules

Hmm I wonder which one is more effective at killing someone?