The stg44 was the first assault rif-

In BF1 its damage is closer to an smg than a rifle

You speak for the Russian government of the early stages of the 20th century?

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>less powerful than a typical rifle cartridge
>Japan adopted 6.5 as a rifle cartridge
I get you though. You seem smart compared to your peers, but relative to the national average you're legally retarded. It's all about relativity.

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is this an assault rifle too?

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Assault rifle is as much a term regarding intended use as it is a technical one.
6.5x50SR is a full rifle round. Even when compared to a larger rounds like 7.62x54R, or 7.7x58 (Which the Japanese later used alongside 6.5, both in infantry rifles and machine guns.)
Getting to the usage aspect, an article on TFB points out:
>it was originally issued as a crew-served weapon, operated by two men – the shooter and the ammo bearer (latter being armed with bolt action rifle or a semi-automatic pistol).
>thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/22/brief-history-russian-fedorov-avtomat-rifle/
Even when used as an individual's weapon, the Fedorov was usually fed with stripper clips because the magazine was hard to produce and soldiers were only issued one. This disqualifies it from being an assault rifle because it lacked the intermediate cartridge, it potentially relied on two soldiers to use, and it did not easily feed from a detachable magazine. The Fedorov is more of a battle rifle or squad automatic weapon like the Bren, BAR, Type 11, etc.

The StG-44 is widely regarded as the first true assault rifle both because of its design and because it was supposed to be a universal weapon that eliminated the need within an infantry squad for some men to have full-power bolt action rifles and some to have submachine guns. Keep in mind that German infantry of WW2 was built around supporting the machine gun, and so the idea of every man in the squad having the same weapon becomes quite the revolution in that setting. Not to say there weren't other earlier automatic firearms that used arguably intermediate rounds, but none were really considered for purpose that assault rifles have become known for.

It's a battle rifle larping as a LMG.

Nice try faggot

Is this a battle rifle?

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>Intermediate cartridge
Not an assault rifle.

Yes.

I need it.

It isn't a Battle Rifle. It's a Automatic Rifle.

By definition, it's a battle rifle.

>6.5 Jap was an intermediate cartridge for the Russians.
No it wasn't. Fedorov got denied for the caliber he wanted since they had shit tons of nip 6.5 on hand from the Russo-Japanese. Since he was shilling small caliber hard that's what he went with over the x54R.

Mauser M1915 Flieger-Karabiner says hello!

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Fadorov didnt think 6.5 jap was “intermediate” (this concept didn’t exist IN THE MODERN SENSE yet) as he had his own idea for a 6.5 “fadorov” cartridge that got denied.
Except there’s a huge issue with fadorov’s idea for what a “avtomat” was.
He incorrectly assumed just making full length cartridges thinner you’d have more controllable full auto and this just wasn’t the case.
especially when only going down a whole 1mm.

Case and point: the fadorov was a unsuccessful, barely fielded prototype that only autists who get all their facts from “weaponoloy” on the military channel proclaim is the first assault rifle

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>8mm Mauser
>assault rifle

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He never wanted to use 7.62x54.
He wanted a small, lightweight caliber for better rifle control and the ability to carry more. 6.5 jap was chosen for these properties.
His intermediate cartridge was almost identical to the Czech 7.62x45 designed later. He was also one of the main designers of 7.62x39.

>the fedorov was the first assault rif...

*shoots actual intermediate cartridge*

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Model 8 was closer

Tips fedorov

Except thats wrong.
6.5 isn’t controllable in full auto and is not significantly lighter than 54r.
Sure they THOUGHT 6.5 jap could achieve what they were going for but they were WRONG and that’s why it wasn’t successful and was used as a automatic rifle
>almost identical to 7.62x45
Except it’s not even close?
>main designers of 7.62x39
And that confirms the success of the fadorov because?

>His intermediate cartridge was almost identical to the Czech 7.62x45 designed later. He was also one of the main designers of 7.62x39.
Fedorov pushed for 5,45 from the beginning actually. 7.62x39 only exists because of the Soviet brass' insistence on 7.62 caliber.

Regardless, 6.56 jap is not intermediate by today's definition. 7.62 NATO was "intermediate" in its day too but that isn't what's being discussed when we refer to those rounds in the context of assault rifles.

Crew served weapon in a full power cartridge with a fixed magazine.

Triple fail.

>crew served
fedorov designed it as an infantry rifle
>full power cartridge
for japs
>fixed magazine
detachable box

This is the only answer, I don't get the retards still debating this

It's just bait at this point with a dash of Sovietboos grasping at straws claiming to have invented everything.

>1913
>Soviet

Battlefields gay as fuck

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First successful assault rifle coming through

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is my semi-auto AR-15 an assault rifle?

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PDW my guy.

And nazis in WW1, amirite?

PDW with an 18 inch barrel?

Assault rifle with a maximum effective range of 200 yards?

“Intermediate” “Carbine” ““rifle””

Categorization is mans ultimate losing battle with nature because things keep defying our arbitrary definitions

anything sub-9 is intermediate

Good attempt.

Well, the M2 caribe was the first succesful american assault rifle, before they adopted the M16.

This is what I would call the first "Assault Rifle" by definition... if only the French had mass produced it.

this wasnt full auto

6.5 Jap in 20" is extremely underpowered. Weaker than 7.62x39 and with (I suspect) a big flash of unburned powder.

Probably why Federov was trying for a special cartridge.

No, it's a fucking carbine.

*teleports behind fedorov

>Nothing personal kid

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Lighter load easier to work with in earlier semi and full autos?

Even if it’s underpowered in the volecity and ft.lbs it still doesn’t give it light enough recoil
I fail to see how a cartridges inefficiencies make it more effective
By that metric 45.70 is a intermediate cartridge and 500 s&w is a battle rifle cartridge because muh ft.lb

"An intermediate cartridge is a rifle/carbine cartridge that is less powerful than typical full-power battle rifle cartridges (such as the .303 British, 7.62×54mmR, 7.92×57mm Mauser, .30-06 Springfield or 7.62×51mm NATO), but still has significantly longer effective range than pistol/personal defense weapon cartridges.[1] As their recoil is significantly reduced compared to full-power rifle cartridges, fully automatic rifles firing intermediate cartridges are relatively easy to control. However, even though less powerful than a traditional full-power rifle cartridge, the ballistics are still sufficient for an effective range of 300–600 metres (330–660 yd), which are the maximum typical engagement ranges in modern combat. This allowed for the development of the assault rifle, a selective fire weapon that is more compact and lighter than rifles that fire full-power rifle cartridges.

The first intermediate cartridge to see widespread service was the German 7.92×33mm Kurz used in the StG 44.[1] Other notable examples include the Soviet 7.62×39mm used in the AK-47 and AKM series, 5.45x39mm first used in the AK-74, the American .223 Remington and 5.56×45mm NATO cartridges first used in the M16, and the Chinese 5.8×42mm first mass used in the QBZ-95 series."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_cartridge

Not one mention of 6.5 Jap you fucking gaylord.

No that's called "small bore"

>6.5 jap produces 12 fl lbs recoil in a 9 lb rifle
>7.62x54R produces 16 ft lbs recoil in same rifle
>7.92x33 produces 7 lbs recoil in same rifle

It's an old argument, but it checks out.

>wikipedia

Buongiorno! Issa da mi, tha first assaulta rifle

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Guess I learn something new every day. So the Fedorov wasn't the first assault rifle. But could we call it the first conceptual assault rifle? Since Fedorov wanted to make it in a new, intermediate caliber?

Or would the honor of the first conceptual assault rifle go to Mondragon?

>Since Fedorov wanted to make it in a new, intermediate caliber?

But Ribeyrolle actually did this for real.

thanks, never heard about that one. Was it select fire though?

yes, see

>6.5 jap = 2,666J
>6.5 grendel = 2,633J
>The 6.5mm Grendel (6.5×39mm) is an intermediate cartridge

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therefore the m4 is not an assault rifle

>rimless .357 mag
>intermediate
It's a gloryfied SMG.

>.500 S&W = 3100J
>7.7 Jap = 3000J
>7.7 Jap is a fullsize rifle cartridge
>so, .500 S&W is a fullsize rifle cartridge too!

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>I have this crazy new idea for an infantry rif-
>Cool bro, we need more machineguns
He a good idea but the gun was wasted on WW1.

This basically gets it.

>Is this a battle rifle?
No that's actually a very rare and obscure untreatable form of cancer and you have 4 days to live

>battle rifle
Only Americans use that term.

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American terminology is far more comprehensive and rational than Euro terminology across the board.

TBQH they basically have a complete monopoly on firearms culture nowadays, so they can afford to determine the nomenclature.
t. Czechfag

>detachable box
That was Clip fed since all mags were hand fitted and not interchangeable.

Actually, I agree with you. Automatic Rifle sounds just more accurate than Battle Rifle, and this was the term used historically.

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where did you find that thing OP
time stamp or your a faggot

Did you just now play BF1?

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Those two 6.5 cartridges are practically interchangeble. Only difference is in dimentions.

You example is false equivalence. .500 would't make good replacement in a rifle and 7.7 wouldn't work well in revolver.