My Lai Massacre

I know have a strange need for a kitchen block made from the skulls of my enemies...

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So the slaughter of children and the elderly is justified because one officer dies? Did all 346-504 people know about the mines?

During the draft

>be so wrong you can't be any less right
Impressive

>ywn take the skulls of your enemies as a trophy

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It’s a sign that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

nam was just a shit show, the soldiers that were there were just tired pissed off. watching their friends die, being forced to kill, and then trying to help people that just shit all over you. not saying they were justified but you have to look at it from all standpoints.

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The people were hostile. You think the VC would have been different if they had access to the families of their American opponents? A better question is how did they prevent this from happening everyday?

This, combined with dehumanization of Vietnamese; indoctrination and desensitization after months of killing and seeing your buddies killed can pretty much wipe out your ability to differentiate between human being and target. A useful tool to keep you from loosing your mind when you have the shittiest and most dangerous job in the world i.e. army grunt in 1968 south vietnam

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>why did no one go to prison?
Because the US gov couldn't afford being perceived by servicemen as hypocritical for prosecuting these soldiers who probably thought they were doing their country a service by wiping out the "enemy". Also, most testified that they were just "following orders" which doesn't make them blame free but is technically true, but even the commanding officer Lieutenant Calley got off with only 3 years house arrest.

The whole point of opposing communism was that our values were better than theirs. So your saying we should have stooped to their level? ISIS burns people in cages and has relations with goats, should we do the same? I swear some people are so retarded

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They had it coming

>most dangerous job
>army grunt in 1968 Vietnam
>not one of the marines in 1968 Vietnam forced to carry an m14

They didn't wipe out the enemy

They wiped out civilians

The children/women/elderly are the ones who are laying down a lot of those traps you know

Yeah and those gun owners cause some deaths you know. Ban all guns.

The mines were layed on local paths, everyone had to know where they were or would get blown up. Possibly some non-ambulatory or unlucky visitors.

>he actually thinks the "values" were the endgame and not just a tool to further own interests (as in political leverage and expanding area of influence for economic and other gain)
Some people really are retarded

This information has been declassified. It never happened.

because it was official policy to murder unarmed civilians

see speedy express

>Demographic war when

>kill ratio is your measure of success
>you and your men decide to make up numbers to look good
>but you don't have the captured weapons to back it up
>bawwwwwww they're killing civilians obviously, these north vietnamese told us so

A distinction without a difference,

Because there was pretty much no accountability for the U.S during Vietnam and the government couldn't afford to give hippies and other anti-war protesters any ammo to make their sentiments credible?

Alas...the best solution is never used.

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>Mah Lay
The only reason this was ever brought up was due to kike media, they would DARE talk shit about their communist stooges.
>Uncle inna Nam
>Retaking Hue
>keep finding mass graves
>communists would round up any bourgeois elements and give them
7.62x39mm Gulag tickets
May Lai was an EXCEPTION not the rule, and Tankies love to screech about it.

>thinking that the M14 is bad
Nope.

>marines
>soldiers
>pick one

the casualty estimates were compiled by the pentagon from US hospitals treating civilians wounded by US air raids and sweeps

even they admitted 5-7k civilian casualties

it was
>looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/
"All of the rifles from Winchester and H&R exhibited excessive headspace.

All of the rifles had loose handguards.

95% of the rifles had loose stock bands.

90% of the rifles had loose gas cylinders.

75% of the rifles had misaligned op rods and gas pistons.

50% of the rifles had loose op rod guides.

50% of the rifles had op rods that rubbed the stock.

Three rifles had barrels that exceed the maximum bore dimensions.

Only three rifles had an average bore diameter that fell below the accepted mean diameter."

just a taste

>The whole point of opposing communism was that our values were better than theirs

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We could have done far worse and our values were still better, it's war.

War is hell.

>Why did they do it?
Stupidity and a lack of moral fibre
>Why did no one go to prison?
See above

Well I assume that if someone violates the NAP and they get caught in the crossfire it's technically their fault for not getting the hell out when you have people running around literally shooting at you.

"So what if X was bad. Do you think Y would be any better?"

Just soldier with a special name.

I'm pretty sure it was for money and power, not values. I mean why else would we support the Shah (monarch), dictators (Rhee and Chiang), military juntas (South Vietnam), Islamic fundamentalists (Afghanistan), Arab one party dictators (Saddam) and so on

The official reason that the US government gave was marijuana use amongst the troops.

The only mercy in war is to take the actions of cruelty to end the war quickly. When the primary assets of the VC are the ability to hide in the jungles and tunnels and among the civilians, why, if your goal really IS to win the war, would you not deny them every advantage and force them to fight? Pump blistering agents into tunnels, so that they may not hide there. Drop defoliants on the forest that they may not hide there. And YES, shoot the villagers, that they may not hide there either. They will run out of places to hide, and so they must stand and fight on the field where might decides who is left. But of course, every ancient tactic we've long since developed a counter measure to is illegal because there's law in war now.
Think about that for a moment. Law in war. LAW. ORDER. The thing that keeps PEACE. IN WAR. In chaos, in violence and strife.
You'd just as well hand out speeding tickets at the indy 500 because the drivers are going fast.

What are you, eleven? War is not CoD. War is an extension of geopolitical objectives, not a kill count. It's pretty fucking stupid to execute civilians when your entire point there is to win the hearts and minds of the people.

Puberty is only a passage, dont worry it will go away. If not, consider suicide.

>The object is to win their hearts and minds
You're not exactly doing that by coming to their land and being the strange man on the street corner. People tend not to take kindly to that. But please, do keep trying the same failed doctrine repeatedly and sacrificing thousands of lives in each iteration of the process, I'm sure you'll make it work one day.
If you want to fight communist guerrillas, fight them. Don't stand on the corner handing out happy meals to the kids hoping that it's going to, along with the gibsmedats, make the village elders who've been stringing american troops along the last decade suddenly decide to quit being duplicitous and kindly tell where everyone in the Taliban, VC, AQ or whoever else is, where they can be found, and where their secret diaries are hidden. Shoot the fucking civilians and pump their caves full of gas or don't invade the fucking country.

>Why did they do it?
They had to destroy the village in order to save it

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>M14 still in use and inventory
>M16 had to get completely rebuilt
And people say the MIC doesn't exist.

that explains it

proofs?

based pentagon shill

>comments are closed
DROPPED.

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vewy special

Well, consider the following situation
>You are joe grunt.
>You are walking around the village, and frequently, you run into mines and shit.
>The VILLAGERS, on the other hand, have never had an incident with these and they traverse these trails where your squad leader just got everything below his taint blown off more than you do.

You are left with two assumptions to make based on which is more simple or probable.
ONE: It's literally the biggest fucking coincidence that the have never had an incident with a mine despite trampling the fuck out of the trails you tread
TWO: They know where the mines are and aren't telling you because they are ambivalent to the free gibs at BEST and complicit at worst.
Which would seem more likely to you?

>can't fucking kill some VC so I better blow all of my ammo of some poor villagers bastard which mostly are elder, woman and kid.
Do you understand the concept and what separates a well discipline army and plain rag tag bandit? If you can't then better just don't wear the green uniform.

-why would they even tell the americans where the mines in the trail are IF (big if) they know where they are planted?
-at what length of the trail do they tell them?
-are they required to have lookouts on every corner beyond their village that tell the glorious americans that there are mines and where they are?

Wouldn't you be complicit in resisting the invasion of your country? Or are you a traior or coward?

There are three responses to my last post.
>OH GOD! I TOTALLY DON'T REMEMBER HISTORY, HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT USING HISTORICALLY PROVEN METHODS SUCH AS SLAUGHTERING COMMUNITIES THAT HELP THE ENEMY TO SEND A MESSAGE WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN LITERALLY PISSING THEM OFF AND CALLING IT HUMANITARIAN.

>Listen there, goy! It could be argued that winning the hearts and minds of the locals is impractical for the reason stated but you should STILL sacrifice men for impotent doctrines that have failed every time they've been employed

>Third guy kinda gets it.

WOULD YOU be won over by the invaders from the PLA if they handed out cancer in a bag to eat on YOUR town's street corners? NO! That's why rules of engagement are fucking stupid, I mean this is literally the only response I've gotten with any content, It's all fucking faggots bitching about age or some shit because they can't make an argument but to feign outrage that anyone DARE question the effectiveness of doctrine whose use has literally a hundred percent failure rate.
Holy fucking shit, man! OF COURSE I'd be complicit with people fucking with an army that invaded MY country! That doesn't mean I expect the PLA is going to show mercy when they find out.

Allow me to make a historical reference. The mongols. They had entire towns surrender to them before they even showed up. Know why? Because they razed entire towns that surrendered AFTER they showed up.

>user asks for proofs
>Gives a baseless hypothetical

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>Why did they do it?
Vietnam broke them. My Lai was a symptom of how fucking botched the entire war was top to bottom.

>Why did no one go to prison?
Because the NVA didn't actually defeat the United States. Trials for War Crimes are for victors who conquer their enemies.

>civilians
I think the word you're searching for is "acceptable casualties"

I wasn't the one who made the claim. I'll hypothesize as much as I please. The other guy can deal with that.

Very good

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The 1sg of the company mine was attached to in Iraq is in Leavenworth right now for executing "insurgents" in Baghdad, I won't post his name here but it's pretty well known within the OIF community. The dudes kept getting released by the DHA, and they knew they were dirty, I think probably JAM(06 era). Regardless his company lost alot of good dudes, and it builds up after awhile fighting insurgencies are extremely frustrating and you almost never see your enemy. Imagine being in a fistfight and you're getting the shit knocked out of you, now you find an opportunity to get a blow in and it might be a big one...it's like that. At least the justification of it mentally. The brain is capable of anything after prolonged stress/combat

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This is a good post and the people who don't get this are retards.

The key thing here is that the solution isn't to go massacre the village, it's to build relationships with the local population in a way that prevents shit like this from happening. This is why Civil Affairs exists. Of course, most of the summer population of Jow Forums has never heard of them because they aren't in video games.

They're the fags who give the kids happy meals, yes? Or are they the ones in restrepo who deal with the village elders like
"NO Muhammad, we're not giving you another ten million dollars until you dig out at least one shovel full of dirt for the road we're trying to build into Pakistan."
>"YOU TAKE AWAY BROTHER IN LAW, WHY YOU DO THIS HUBDUBBA DE DUBBA."
"We have him on video cutting people's heads off and having relations with the neck holes."
>"Which one?"
"The head"
>"Oh, in that case, take him away, you are only supposed to use the torso neckhole, he has violated islamic law!"
"So you'll dig out a shovel full?"
>"Come back in sree days, we will think about it."

meanwhile pic related is the officer's expression internally.

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source
I don't recall the pentagon ever admitting numbers beyond "there were some civilian casualties".

>don't invade the fucking country
and that's the option we should have taken

>bunch of illiterate farmers
>knowing the locations of mines
If they knew where the mines were, their grand children wouldn't be getting blown up by them today.

Oh they knew. Their children die today because the grandparent was shot for not telling.
They helped fucking set them.

Then we would have lost the Philippines

we should have let them have their independence in 1900

I'd like a source on that instead of your lame speculation. Beyond that, can anyone tell me why everyone in this thread assumes that the villagers spoke any English? The average Viet who has lived in the US for 5 years can barely speak English, why would some rice farmers in French indochina speak English?

Hah. And concede to the Japanese?

i'm sure we'd kick the shit out of them again in ww2

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080403187.html

>The Army inspector general wrote in 1972, "While there appears to be no means of determining the precise number of civilian casualties incurred by US forces during Operation Speedy Express, it would appear that the extent of these casualties was indeed substantial, and that a fairly solid case can be constructed to show that civilian casualties may have amounted to several thousand (between 5,000 and 7,000)."

>lie about gulf of tonkin to protect a despised puppet despot and end up killing hundreds of thousands of civilians only to lose at the end and cause two more countries to fall to communists from blowback, when the whole shitshow could have been avoided if the US told france to fuck off from NATO in the 50's

yeah, much better values for sure