Disclaimer: Yes, I know that even suppressed fire is still quite loud, quite unlike how it's portrayed in the movies. We don't have to beat that horse any deader.
Should silencers be legal? Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention. Do the benefits of increased convenience for lawful gun users outweigh the harm of easier escape for criminals?
Yes.
Explain your reasoning.
They do nothing that a car muffler doesn’t. They are far louder than most believe, and in fact would do nothing to hinder the knowledge of gunfire from spreading.
The only thing they would do is ease hearing damage on shooters.
It’s as dumb as banning aspirin.
One of the biggest reasons it’s not as quite as people think, it may suppress the shot to a degree. But it doesn’t silence the action at all.
They were put on the NFA because of poachers not because of criminals with Sam Fisher fantasies.
>outweigh
stop trying to turn rights into math
stop making threads
Suppressors are very simple and cheap make. Despite this they are virtually never used in crime because they make a gun more difficult to conceal.
Aspirin may not be restricted, but codeine and morphine sure are.
James Bond gets around this by having the silencer as a separate piece from the gun. When he determines that he will need to use gun ahead of time, he takes it out and attaches it to his gun.
If you're going to shoot people, I don't care if you hurt your ears.
Some people would like to retain their hearing, should the harrowed moment come in which you need to use a gun for self defense.
It is called a suppressor not a 'silencer' you dick
But the majority of suppressor users will not be shooting people
You don't take away a right because a few might abuse it.
How selfish.
I mean how awful it must be for hypothethical person with no context of self defense or homicide to die and the perpetrator keeps their hearing!
Clearly you’re focused on the REAL issue here right?
>Should silencers be legal?
Yes.
>Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention.
Yes, but a suppressed gunshot is as you said, still quite loud and if they really wanted to kill someone quietly there are 20 better ways to do it if they so wanted that involve legally and easily obtainable items.
>Do the benefits of increased convenience for lawful gun users outweigh the harm of easier escape for criminals?
Yes, because what you are bringing up is a non-issue.
OP is a nigger kike jew bastard gun grabber cock sucker and need to fuck off to Jow Forums
Bingo. I use suppressors to quietly dispatch invading squirrels without alerting bleeding heart neighbors to pellet gun noise. My biggest concern with this is the noise of pellet impact, so I place shots where they'll best be absorbed, not causing a loud echoing sound. Shooting people? Why? I don't know any people I dislike enough to think they ought to be dead. Time will do the awful ones in eventually, that's a certainty, and I have no interest in ruining my life to accelerate anyone else's demise. Getting found out would be awful. I'd lose everything. That'd suck. The logic is pretty much clear - which is why I'm often mystified as to why people kill other people. Do they really lack sufficient imagination to realize that most killers get caught, and then connect the dots to themselves? Man, killers are dumb. Like in old Colombo episodes.
>we
For a civilian, suppressor is primarily a safety device for the shooters and others at the range, and secondly it helps with the noise pollution at ranges in suburbs.
Grabbers like to tell gunshots being loud improves safety as shooters are more likely to be caught and active shooters located quicker. Trying to reason wont help so you need take initiative and use the health aspect. "Too many people have tinnitus, tinnitus disables and creates working life dropouts living on food stamps" etc.
when you can give me a valid reason besides a "well, it could..." we'll talk about it. until then, yes they should be legal and fuck you for falling even a little bit for the guilt trip bullshit people are using to strip rights, despite intentionally knowing as little as possible.
Silencers are used by killers to disguise their location so they can kill more before they get found.
The Las Vegas shooter had silencers on all of his guns.
They are dangerous tools of death.
Fuck off, maybe?
He also had to do it while a fucking concert was going on as well as having the benefit of mass hysteria a stampede (which caused multiple additional injuries) to hide his whereabouts.
His being hard to find had much more to do with his choice of vantage point as well as his the conditions surrounding his targets than it ever did with how much his shots were muffled by his suppressors.
Many in Vegas saw the smashed windows in the hotel, knew where the shots were coming from. The muzzle flashes were often visible. Police completely screwed up approaching his hotel room, taking something like 18 minutes after knowing who and where he was before attempting entry. Suppressors had diddly to do with it.
Yes. If your home is getting invaded you're not going to take the time to get your ear plugs. It's also good for hunting with doggos.
I know this is shitbait, but he had no silencers on any of his ARs.
Also suppressors are legal in most other western nations, even the UK.
Oh yeah, and it was Hillary's suggestion that the killings might have been more numerous had he used suppressors. He didn't. Just a gun-grabbing, silencer-grabbing bitch's made up Twitter nonsense.
well I think they're not used in crimes because the average criminals doesn't know how to make them or put on to a firearm with the assistance of someone more mechanically inclined.
Is it true supressors main function is to hide muzzle flash and anything else that might gove away your position quickly?
A tube with end caps and a bunch of washers and spacers inside. Works at least 80% as effectively as the best commercial suppressor. Anyone who can't build one from crap found at Home Depot isn't trying.
>The Las Vegas shooter had silencers on all of his guns.
Um, no sweetie :)
A criminal can easily just fashion up their own suppressor or use an oil filter. Not like they give a fuck about BATFE.
>even suppressed fire is still quite loud
No its not, not from a closed bolt using subsonics
yes, shall not be infringed
The average criminal doesn’t take care of their guns, let alone load it with consistant quality ammunition. Why would they put in effort to research and make a supressor?
>criminals are going to pay hundreds, if not nearly a thousand for a top of the line suppressor
um, no
Fun fact : suppressors weren't regulated in France up to 2012. There has been only one recorded instance of a someone using it for a crime : a guy used one on his bolt action .22lr rifle to kill his wife and children at home during the night.
That's it.
If we listen to the left's "arguments" against suppressors in the US, every single criminal and terrorist in France should be using one, but this simply isn't the case.
Criminals don't care about gun noises, and they aren't "tactical" guys, they don't read gun forums, they don't watch gun videos, they don't care about rails, optics, foregrips, lights... They use vanilla guns with a standard sling for rifles and that's it.
Most people don't hear car crashes the next block along, why the fuck would anyone think some very mild bangs aren't just someone hitting something with a hammer in their sheds.
Yes.
But handguns should be illegal.
If Americans were smart they'd trade handguns for silencers
But as the world has long known...
>If Americans were smart they'd trade handguns for silencers
Were smart enough not to give up more than we already have, it'd just end up with the loss of both
Yes, you fucking "common sense gun control" cocksucker. Drink bleach.
It's called a penis, not a dick.
You cock.
>Should silencers be legal?
Of course.
>Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention.
It lowers the volume from jumbo jet level to jackhammer level. It will still draw attention.
I've tried CCI Quiet out of a rifle with a state of the art suppressor in the yard, once. It was quiet, sure enough, as one might expect with only around 700fps muzzle velocity with a 40gr projectile. But it's loud enough still that one wouldn't want to shoot two or three in succession with nearby neighbors, as they'd realize they were gunshots and call the police. And that's about as quiet as a suppressed firearm gets. I mean, you could go to CB Shorts... but then you're at a power level equivalent to a CO2 air pistol, as in hardly significant at all. Now try a bare minimum serious cartridge such as subsonic .38" with a similarly high level suppressor. Guaran-damn-T-you that the neighbors are going to freak the fuck out if you fire two shots. Even if they're playing music and inside their houses with closed doors. They'll be all like 'what the FUCK?!' So no, 'silencers' don't silence diddly. 'Silencer' was a marketing term, and a brilliant one, designed to sell hardware for old Hiram Maxim the muffler maker. Suppressor is a better term, and it's relative, not absolute. If people aren't deaf, they'll hear a suppressed gunshot, period.
You can be even lazier than that. M3 suppressors didn't even use baffles, just rolls and washers made of wire mesh.
Hell yeah, if a criminal wants to cheap out why not rolled up wire mesh around a thin tube with loads of holes drilled in it, all held together in a foot or so of 2" PVC tube with glued on end caps? It's not like the thing has to last more than one magazine's worth of shots for basic criminal activities. And again, NFA or whatever laws don't apply to people who make a habit of breaking laws anyway.
>Silencers should be illegal because they're sneaky
>But tracers, which give away the shooters position, should be illegal
>As should semi-auto handguns
>But not revolvers, which don't eject casings and leave less evidence behind
>Also we're gonna ban big scary rifles
>But not handguns that can be concealed in your waistband and account for most gun crime
Can you grabber faggots make up your mind?
Yes
Jow Forums is pretty pro gun
>Should silencers be legal?
Yes.
>Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention.
No.
>Do the benefits of increased convenience for lawful gun users outweigh the harm of easier escape for criminals?
SHALL
Funny, I use an unsuppressed 27" single-shot rifle with .22LR subsonics (42gr at 1000+fps, not CCI Quiet) for pest control in the orchard. I can fire a shot 20 or 30 yards from the front door, and nobody inside the house hears a thing. Not "doesn't register as a gunshot"; they see me walk out with a rifle, and when I come back 10 minutes later they have no odea if I fired a shot or not.
The discrepancy makes me wonder if you're using a semi-auto with extra ejection-port noise.
>Criminals
Don't use silencers. They're TWICE as expensive as the throwaway pistols they shoot each other with.
Just like how Nazis were progun, only for people they liked.
Nope. Bolt rifle, 17" barrel, which I'd think would be plenty to burn off Quiet's powder. Perhaps there is significant unsuppressed gunfire induced deafness in your folks such that they don't register gunshots any more?
I would love to have a suppressed .22 rifle to shoot the fucking morning birds in my SoCal urban neighborhood, or to shoot opossums that get under my house
There are more lawful gun owners than there are criminals.
Possums can be a serious problem. Yet another introduced species. Gosh, people can be so stupid hauling these critters around the planet. I mean, we bring ourselves everywhere, and that's been pretty bad for a lot of the planet... but you got to draw the line somewhere. Cane toads and rabbits have basically ass-raped Australia. But hey, can't shoot a possum or a squirrel, that'd be mean.
>they are dangerous tools of death
So why do peaceful police officers use them?
>they need them
For what?
>to kill bad people
Where and what are “bad people” exactly? Do civilians never come across them? Why do they deserve to die?
>civilians aren’t cops
What’s the physical difference between a police officer and a civilian? A title? are police officers transcended humans of a different species?
Why do you want to have your pacifist cake and approve of state funded violence?
Lazier still, use an oil filter.
Police also clear buildings floor by floor to the top. Which takes forever. So we should blame cops for the 3 or 4 people killed while they got there.
Thank goi that bitch is dead
>virtually never used in crime because they make a gun more difficult to conceal.
I think they are seldom used in crime for two reasons:
1. Most criminals are stupid.
2. The NFA actually does a pretty good job of keeping criminals from buying silencers.
The original patent for it calls it a silencer. The terms are interchangeable.
>they'll just do it anyway
I've never accepted this reasoning. It's just defeatism. Making crime a little harder to get away with isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing.
Lawful shooters can just use earplugs.
>Also suppressors are legal in most other western nations, even the UK.
So?
>1. Most criminals are stupid.
Agreed.
>2. The NFA actually does a pretty good job of keeping criminals from buying silencers.
Wrong. NFA prevents teenagers and some spergs from buying silencers, but anyone with an Internet connection and a few tools can make a passable silencer out of stuff from the hardware store. Form 1 builders do this all the time, tens of thousands of them per year and growing fast. It'd be a pretty goddamned stupid criminal not to be able to order a few 'storage cups' from an eBay seller and stick them in an 'inline grease filter tube' from another eBay seller, or similar crap found all over the place online. Drill some holes, screw it together, and presto, something almost as good as a $1,000 commercial can.
>NFA prevents teenagers and some spergs from buying silencers
The NFA makes it more difficult for criminals to buy silencers. Not impossible, but more difficult.
>but anyone with an Internet connection and a few tools can make a passable silencer out of stuff from the hardware store
Put yourself in the shoes of a criminal. If you were going to commit a murder and you wanted to get away with it, would you rather use a silencer you nigger-rigged in your garage or use something professionally manufactured? Be honest.
If I wanted to assassinate someone, I'd bloody well go full 'The American' on their ass and manufacture a goddamned great silencer to do it with. But that's just me, I guess. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't use semi-retarded conical washers either, nor crookedly thread the rear plug in the can. Lathe work isn't that hard.
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
>Should silencers be legal?
Yes.
>Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention.
Source?
>Do the benefits of increased convenience for lawful gun users outweigh
The answer to this question is always yes.
Suppressors are easily made, but I think tha hard part is attaching it to a gun. Not too many threaded barrels around, certainly not in europe.
Rubber hose adapters, slots in the tube, hose clamps to secure tightly over barrel. Done. Not mechanically brilliant, but with a bit of effort it'll work for a few shots.
Come on! You know as well as I do that anything professionally made is going to be better than anything nigger rigged in a garage.
>Source
I've got friends in low places. They've witnessed plenty of murders (and even committed a few)
>Come on! You know as well as I do that anything professionally made is going to be better than anything nigger rigged in a garage.
Can't really agree. Racist snark aside, I've seen both great cans which out-perform all but the best commercial efforts, and every kind of shitty work beneath that. Went through the whole evolution of suppressor innards myself going through the learning curve. Basically K baffles rock for subsonics, so that's what I've settled on, and I keep refining their geometry and porting for cross-bore redirection of flow. Mine are really quiet, though home made with a tiny lathe. But they don't have to be quite as quiet as that to be quiet enough for a would-be murderer. I'll relent a little and allow that keeping the best stuff out of some criminals' hands via the NFA could, perhaps, have been useful in preventing the odd crime... but kind of doubt it's very meaningful. A knife is quieter than any suppressed pistol or rifle. A bomb is safer for the killer as he can be somewhere else when it goes off. Are we restricting sales of pipe and all potential powder ingredients now?
Shall, bitch
I've got friends in low places and they say you're full of shit.
No petty thief spends several hundred dollars on a suppressor. And no criminalization of supressors is going to affect a determined killer.
You know how I know that this comment is 100% bullshit? My Anschutz target rifle firing 40gr Eley Match subsonic target loads makes enough noise that we get noise complaints from a house that's at least 150m from the firing line.
>Criminals are often caught because the noise of gunfire draws attention.
Haha, no. It doesn't. I've shot guns in my yard in an semi-urban setting and no cops showed up, no one even said anything about it.
Yeah, a lot of guys who've shot guns all their lives are significantly hearing impaired. Subjective assessments of noise levels are useless for this reason, too much variability in hearing ability.
What I've done is when I finish a build, I rig it in a vise with a quiet, safe backstop (2" of lead, 2" of duct seal on top of that, in a hardwood box), and have my kid pull the trigger once I've gone outside. I record the ambient sound and the gunshot from a standard distance, about 20 feet outside a partially opened window. If it's less than the sound of a textbook dropping flat onto a hardwood floor from a foot up (I've had him test that for me too) then it's quiet enough.
>No petty thief spends several hundred dollars on a suppressor
That just proves my point even more, that the NFA does help prevent criminals from buying silencers.
>no criminalization of supressors is going to affect a determined killer
That's just defeatism. Just because we can't prevent all crime doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
I've fired subsonic 22s before. They're not that loud. Your neighbors just want to bitch.
>I've fired subsonic 22s before. They're not that loud. Your neighbors just want to bitch.
That's just nonsense. Sure subsonic .22lr is quieter than anything bigger, but it's far from hearing safe out of a rifle. If you think otherwise, you've suffered significant hearing loss. Might want to get a checkup.
>That just proves my point even more, that the NFA does help prevent criminals from buying silencers.
Suppressors cost hundreds of dollars even before the addition of the ATF tax stamp. Most decent suppressors cost well over a thousand dollars due to the grade of materials used and the precise machining required. What criminal is going to drop over a grand on a threaded barrel and a suppressor on what is most likely going to be a burner weapon anyway?
>That's just defeatism. Just because we can't prevent all crime doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
The criminalization of murder hasn't prevented determined killers either.
>I've fired subsonic 22s before. They're not that loud. Your neighbors just want to bitch.
The simple fact is that regardless of whether you are willing to admit it or not, they still discerned those noises to be gunshots, even at that distance.