How are Infantry/Mechanized infantry assaults on fortified enemy positions carried out in modern times?
Do they resemble anything of WW2? I.e. "deploy smoke shells to cover the advancing infantry pushing up" and "support with artillery and air strikes"?
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Start by researching modern engineers.
1. Let the Air Force do their job
2. Clean up
Did we finally get that to work?
I remember WW2 and Vietnam are classic examples of "the airforce can't bomb an enemy into submission"
we did! It turned out we were missing the third step of
>send armor to shoot everything else
it worked extremely well whenever we've engaged a conventional adversary, yes
The whole idea of modern warfare would be to bypass fortified positions and cut them off supplies.
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
I seriously suspect it will actually end up miserably for every party involved until someone realizes that yeah the soviet doctrine of the 80s when properly executed is litterally the most unbeatable and OP military strategic and tactic approach conceivable to a human being.
>it worked extremely well whenever we've engaged a conventional adversary massively inferior to us
Except the part where it was brutally owned by airland battle; which caused every major conventional force outside NATO to rethink and adopt the American 1980s approach, which Russia has now embraced with good results in Crimea/Ukraine etc.
>not realizing operational war is about concentrating your forces so that the enemy is locally massively inferior, and strategy is about enabling this
ok sweetie
>Except the part where it was brutally owned by airland battle
For fuck sake when will this fucking meme that the iraqui used the soviet doctrine will die. This is common knowledge that the soviet military advisors simply gave up upon seeing the absolute retardness of the arabs. Being litteral camel jockeys they understood it as "charging forward like goats escaping rape by uncle Abdul". And of course the current russian approach isn't the same, they don't have the manpower nor the material for a giant steamroll tactic anymore. Especially in the context of "it's just rebels guys, I swear".
>not realizing that isn't what we did, we were superior everywhere because we had more monies
>that the enemy is locally massively inferior, and strategy is about enabling this
If by "locally" you mean the entirety of the ennemy country and by "enabling this" you mean being sure the enemy country is enough melanin enriched to basically count as an easy bot spawn point in counter strike then yes.
>more munny = more win
It's almost as if grand strategy is a thing that exists.
There are literally shitty tutorials for JROTC and OCS cadets on youtube.
It's ordinary stuff. Blow up everything known enemy with arty. Suppress all likely positions with arty and smoke and contintue while tanks/IFVs overwatch and engineers breach. Arty turns off, tanks roll through and roll up the sides, IFVs dismount and support while infantry clears, reserves punch through.
Basic tactics. The real magic is aerial assault-breaker type programs hitting enemy fuel/ammo dumps, and staging areas, so that their follow-on echelons (aka muh USSR of )
are incapacitated for your reserves to brutalize.
All desert adventures we’ve been on since 91 are bad examples. Iraq already suffered horrible losses In the first real Persian gulf war that everyone forgets(Iran Iraq) and was comprised of fighters who were very poorly trained. And finally, due to the terrain being fuckhuge desert, our technological superiority in armor and aircraft was multiplied.
If you want to see how we would do in a peer vs peer fight against a nation that is competent and wasn’t previously fucked into submission before the war even begins. Then look at the current excercises and mock battles happening in Europe with our NATO partners and us. Shit gets a bit more complicated.
>This is common knowledge that the soviet military advisors simply gave up upon seeing the absolute retardness of the arabs.
The air-to-air battles in the Iran-Iraq War were described by one observer, who said, “In practice, the two Air Forces proved to be equally incompetent.”
Both sides seemed to overestimate the capability of their adversary and had an exaggerated fear of radar-guided missiles. Iraqi pilots generally avoided air-to-air engagements. Any engagements that did occur were noteworthy for their lack of aggressive maneuvering.
The Iraqis would normally conduct high-speed, maximum range, air-to-air missile launches, then break off and return to their airfields.
>And finally, due to the terrain being fuckhuge desert, our technological superiority in armor and aircraft was multiplied.
>If you want to see how we would do in a peer vs peer fight against a nation that is competent and wasn’t previously fucked into submission
Confirmed for not reading any pre-Iraq defense critics, or if so not realizing the massive hypocrisy.
Spoiler: Iraq was a giant, battle-hardened army with bleeding edge French IADS and the desert was going to cripple weak M1 turbines, confuse aircraft, and make maintenance of high-tech equipment designed for European forests and plains a nightmare.
Those critics were proven totally wrong, and they made the same arguments you are now. So the burden of proof is on you to show how historically disproven copypasta about the US is really, truly, honestly going to be different this time guys, I promise!
>battle-hardened army
Lol u wut
>desert was going to cripple weak M1 turbines, confuse aircraft,
>and make maintenance of high-tech equipment designed for European forests and plains a nightmare.
When did I even hint at saying any of that?
Like I said. The Iraqis were complete shit and were already on there last leg when 91 kicked off. This is proven when you look at the actual tactics we used in 91 and invasion of 03. We just charged our forces with no fucks given in 91 and literally just drove a colum down a road in 03. We got away with pulling off some stupid shit due to the fact that Iraq was complete ass and was nothing even close to a peer vs peer fight. So yes, if we did get into a peer vs peer fight. Shit would be different.
But we HAD armor.
We had loads more Shermans than the Germans!
How come we couldn't get it to work back then. . .
>bleeding edge French IADS
You mean, the one that was intimately known to us because france is, you know, an ally? The one that was disabled by taking out a few command centres and placing a few bribes?
>Basic tactics. The real magic is aerial assault-breaker type programs hitting enemy fuel/ammo dumps, and staging areas, so that their follow-on echelons (aka muh USSR of (You)) are incapacitated for your reserves to brutalize.
>Facing an outnumbering army litteral tailor build to steamroll you in this exact scenario
>Every simulation of proper use of deep battle application by the soviet army ended up on crushing defeat for the other side or stalemate if the commander happened to be a tactical genius
This board has become 100% whermaboo, vatniks and burgers with the occasional chink. Fuck this board.
>The Germans
>Not a conventional enemy
Pick one
No amount of day or night bombing was able to ever make a division sized unit "submit" and likely won't even by modern times.
c that Germany lost ww2, so badly in fact its capital was occupied by the victors for half a century and its leader killed himself and his dog
It took the allies almost a whole year to cross a meagre 500 miles of ground while they were bombing germany with impunity. So much for airpower.
It's almost like there was a army in the way.
It's almost as if that was the point.
This is patently false; allied interdiction bombing severely crippled Wehrmacht capabilities during the war, strategic bombing is a different story but no doubt did serious damage.
CAS is a different story as well.
Imagine not being able to set up staging points for your vehicles without getting blown to pieces by P47/P51 sworms.
>Every simulation of proper use of deep battle application by the soviet army ended up on crushing defeat for the other side or stalemate if the commander happened to be a tactical genius
I love Military Genius Jow Forums. It is truely like a circus.
But the point was that bombing alone was not enough to defeat the Germans, nor was it enough to prevent harsh casualty rates in battles.
Caen faced the full wrath of the RAF, the USAF, and the RN and USN heavy guns. Yet for all the masses upon masses of ordnance thrown at it, the Germans still inflicted horrendous losses on the advancing British and Canadian forces.
Arial bombardments were absolute shit on all sides throughout WWII. Pearl Harbor was probably the most effective campaign and that led to modernization and carriers being more important than battleships.
>How are Infantry/Mechanized infantry assaults on fortified enemy positions carried out in modern times?
youtube.com
Essentially the same as WWII.
>Recce defines enemy position, pushing past while one element maintains visual, linkup usually made with closest unit of tanks to takeover observation
>Units in a mad rush as everyone scrambles to conduct a combat team attack
>Tanks, infantry, engineers RV and unfuck themselves into the formation
>Fire plan consisting of air, artillery and firebase (performed by tanks) suppresses position
>Lead element is the Assault Force, tanks that roll up to the position killing everything, pushing past the objective to establish an outer cordon known as ring of steel
>Arty/Air/firebase will stop or push past the objective to not friendly fire
>May have to create lanes with the dozer tanks thru minefields, lanes are flagged by engineers
>Intimate Support consisting of tanks and mech inf close in hot pursuit, dismount just infront of the objective when the assault force gets the word to fuck off
>infantry follows in behind tanks and covered by their own vehicles, walk onto the objective
>Intimate Support tanks are told to fuck off, complete ring o steel as infantry stab, maim, kill everything left in the objective
>Everyone takes time to reconstitute, and then you carry on the advance to contact
He is right you know
Airpower vs armor in open country and airpower vs a large city chock full of dug in and fortified infantry positions supported by artillery and anti-tank guns are two different things.
If they are heavily fortified avoid it completely. Encircle it and keep shelling their positions 24/7 while the push continues. Unless they were prepared for the assault for weeks in advance they will mostly have enough supplies for maybe 3 days. Really depends on the terrain though.
Read Red Army by Ralph Peters you niggers.
Pure BS. The soviets themselves disagree with you. Please read this: csbaonline.org
In the mid to late 80's the Russians were working on a new military doctrine called “reconnaissance strike complex” (or “RUK” from the Russian peкoгнocциpoвoчнo-yдapный кoмплeкc). The RUK had three basic elements: precision munitions, advanced sensors with wide area coverage, and automated command
and control (C2) for near real time responses. This was known in the US as Airland battle, which combines reconnaissance units with precision strike units to obliterate the enemy long before they have a chance to respond. This according to Russian military personal would "Long range precision strike systems would extend the depth of destruction ten times deeper than had been possible during the Great Patriotic War (that is, during World War II on the Eastern Front) "
For a real deep battle simulation they need to allow the side with long range precision strike to punch out the commanders of the deep battle side in the first 6 hours and then see how they perform.
Iraqi Air Force vs Iranian Air Force was like a blind kid with MS fighting a quadrapalegic
Isis has innovated by simplifying the breaching operation by using SVBIEDs. Drive up a series of up armored m113s loaded to the gills with HE while arty is distracting/suppressing and the perimeter will be perforated.
Another thread full of 15-21 years olds who have never spent a day in the military talking about war and tactics lmao
Why do I keep coming to this board