Jeff cooper
cool
Can someone articulate why a rifle that is essentially instinctually aimed and has minimal capacity is better than a bullet hose?
Because the only bullet that matters is the one that strikes the target. Especially in hunting and ambush, which is what coopers rifle concept is all about.
I hunted down a physical copy of the art of the rifle last christmas.
Jeff Cooper focused on hunting and hiking. His idea of the ideal rifle was one you'd carry through Rocky Mountains, or an African Safari. If you've never hiked around the Rockies, carrying all the ammo for your bullet hose, along with food and water, is no bueno.
Basically your rifle should be as light and easy to use, load and shoot as possible
He advocated for things like
"I've reinvented the levergun, except this time it's a bolt action. Feel free to fellate me in recognition of my monumental accomplishment."
- Jeff Cooper
There's a ton of ongoing debate about what a "modern" scout rifle should be. Here's the list I eventually settled on:
1. Full rifle caliber at least .308.
2. Compact and shorter LOP.
3. Overall length under 40 inches.
4. Weight with optic and unloaded under 7.7 lbs.
5. Traditionally mounted low power scope.
6. Magazine fed.
7. Able to mount a sling
Settled on a Winchester 70 compact featherweight in 308. Bought an aftermarket bottom metal kit and a McMillan hunters edge stock. Added a leupold vx2 2-7 on top. It barely makes weight as is.
I love the gun. It would be an excellent backcountry hunter and with measured shooting the lightweight barrel isn't a hindrance.
Next up is to find a range/land I can run some mobility drills on.
I think people get too hung up on following every single one of Cooper's criteria to the letter. I judge it more by the purpose of the thing, which is a lightweight, magazine fed, compact bolt action rifle, chambered for a round capable of killing mid-sized game, and fitted with a low magnification optic. It's a shame Cooper never lived to see the 6.5 Creedmoor gain any traction, because I think it's an ideal round for the sort of setup he had in mind.
Agreed, though he may have been a bit down on its "stopping power".
The best way to use coopers advice. In my opinion, is to go become a marksman from different positions. Shots in the field don't usually come with a covered bench lol
I agree with most of your list, but you forgot iron sights. I looked at the M70, M77, but the Kimber M84 is what would fit the bill in the modern day. Go look at the Kimber Hunter, tiny little mauser action.
They're on the to do list lol.
6/10.
Should have been a repeating rifle chambered in 556/545 that used a 10 round rotary magazine fed by clips.
The Scout Rifle beats the piss out of any modern rifle, the only opposition there is to it is simply "mah follow up shots", the whole point of a scout rifle is to reach out at 500/600M and still possess enough energy to reliably kill, and still keep close range utility.
The closest comparison to a semi auto rifle is the SVD.
>1. Full rifle caliber at least .308.
Why?
>Compact and shorter LOP.
Stop compensating, you're only hurting yourself.
>Overall length under 40 inches.
Absurdly generous.
>Weight with optic and unloaded under 7.7 lbs.
Literally doesn't matter.
>5. Traditionally mounted low power scope.
Fuck you, sidelok is the future.
Nice, I want to do an Adirondack, but have WAY too many gun projects. Look up Brockman pop up sights.
I'm wondering how easy it would be to get an ar10 to fit the scout rifle concept
Not a proper scout rifle, the ruger is a shitty meme
What exactly should a scout rifle be though? The long eye relief scope seems to be a bit outdated
>The Scout Rifle beats the piss out of any modern rifle
That's absolutely retarded.
This is not even remotely the purpose of Cooper's scout rifle.
The scout rifle was meant to be a handy rifle for some adventuring person exploring the wilderness to carry with them that was light, powerful, and had a low powered optic that did not compromise your peripheral vision.
It was a gun that was pretty much not meant to be shot much at all, if ever.
Lightweight, ruger made the scout as heavy as they could make a short rifle because they knew it would be used as a dirt plunked 95% of the time, and you can't sell a plinker that is uncomfortable to shoot.
Find yourself a rifle that you can hike with for literally days in the mountains, and use to drop an elk quickly and anywhere between 50 and 500yds. That is your scout rifle.
>all purpose rifle
>not shot much
Pick one and only one.
>Because the only bullet that matters is the one that strikes the target
it is such a noble belief.
fun fact: the AR wasn't designed to wound.
it was designed to miss.
the fact is, every single round has a purpose and effect.
sometimes a round strikes a target, destroying tissue and taking a life.
other times a rifle is nothing but a machine for pushing and shouting.
modern fighting rifles are designed for this shouting contest.
you let them hear you coming so they can retreat and you gain the objective, which was what you wanted anyway.
if you take a life, you've got to pick it up and carry it back with you.
supression and manuever are so much more pleasant when you can't see or kill the enemy
he emphasized that the roundbe commonplace and easy to find.
6anhalf cm isn't there yet, although balistically it's king of kings
The insistence on his flock to rigidly adhering to every single component of his ideas for the scout rifle will never not confound me. Guns and, more notably, optics have come a long way since he came up with the concept. The stuff like reliability, low weight, and common/effective caliber still make perfect sense, but sticking exclusively to bolt-action and LP-LER optics in this day and age is just bizarre
he's righter than you are.
and if on your travels as a lone rifleman you get spotted by a patrol, you should engage the way he user you replied to described.
i was reading something the other day about using precision rifles to engage a real army.
the writer suggested there is a safezone between 300 and 600 meters.
get too close to the element and their smallarms work fine
get too far and they can call in airstrikes too easily
You can never miss fast enough to win a gun fight, user.
Exactly. The scout rifle us designed for survival through natural disaster or enemy occupation. It's a guerrilla weapon meant to not look as much like a weapon... more like a hunting tool.
Vx2 2-7 is my favorite hunting scope. Have 5 on all rifles but one which is vx3 6.5x20
You've never used one have you
>nuh uhh
Care to make any actual points?
I'm not dumb enough to buy a meme rifle.
So you just hate things for reasons meeeeeeeeeh
would Cooper have liked the SKS
A pig heavy laminate stock instead of cf makes it pretty obvious. They did eventually make a synthetic stock variant, but it doesn't change the fact that it was aimed at the plinker market from the start.
Not a full power round so no.
The synthetic stock is mere punces lighter. Laminate is slightly heavier but alot more durable
>admonishes people for not treating all guns as if they're loaded at all times
>sweeps himself 4 times while demonstrating it's loaded
People take this man seriously why?
Basically, a Jungle Carbine?
Heavier so can plinkers can shoot more than a box of ammo through it.
I'm glad he touched on the pedants who demand that you not call a revolver a pistol. Those fuckers piss me off.
Guns are always loaded and I mean it
Well I got to say I was tempted to carry mine on an empty chamber. He's right though it's useless if it's empty. I guess I won't do that.
FUCK TOU HOMO !
It has nothing to do with plinkers man. Laminate is alot more sturdy while being only slightly heavier
I have this, it’s a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun, I added the long eye relief scope and it’s a dream to shoulder and get accurate shots offhand now.
I like a fixed, low power optic for simplicity’s sake.
Cooper definitely knew what he was doing as far as a hiking/hunting/wilderness gun.
That's a pretty good example although alittle on the heavy side
Nice. I think my next rifle will be the stainless big loop version.
Anyone here have a Steyr Scout?
I’m considering getting one soon as a camp/hunting rifle.
>only slightly heavier
A full pound.
You can though. Most gun fights are won by fast misses
Well, 1.6 oz shy of a full pound but dam. When they first came out they were only 7 oz lighter. They must have done something new
Why did Cooper advocate bolt over lever?
probably because some sort of "gotts ta have a bolt gun fer combat" fudd mentality
Less complicated.
That’s pretty much it
Stronger lockup, easier to actuate from prone.
Less complex
more reliable
much stronger action
Now look at the M77 Compact with walnut stock compared to the Scout with walnut stock. The Compact weighs a full pound less while using the same receiver and stock material, and the compact has a hair longer barrel. It's pretty irrefutable that the Scout was designed as a plinking gun.
get a load of this fuddlore
What the fuck state was this guy from? I can't place that accent. I can't only think of one other person that hand it and they were the last fucking person I'd listen to about guns even though they were really for them, even though they were totally ineffectual at it. I've been ALL over the states, and I never met anyone with that accent. Only these two people that talk with it and it doesn't seem like a coincidence the way the latter behaves.
How'd y'all all get it wrong in a different way though
Cause you can load it in fewer than 3 minutes
Oof, I wouldn't call the irrifutable of anything other than misreported weights, which is less than uncommon. Practically the same rifles being under a pound apart in weight for seemingly no reason. I'm also not sure what your fixation on a "plinking rifle" is and why you think just under a pound of weight difference is enough to separate an otherwise fine rifle to the filthy casuals bun in your mind