.40 S&W

Most .40 autoloaders hold only 2 rounds less than a 9mm. .45 usually holds 6-7 less.

>most shootings done by 5.7 are one shot drops
Nigger what?

9mm fags with the weak wrists dont like it

>10micrometer
Kek, get a 44

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Nothing. The tactical fat asses just need something to reeeee about and it’s convenient.

I was molested by .40s&w

So I guess you're not into fbi shooting statistics?

It's kinda heavy on recoil for not a lot of ballistic advantage over 9mm, and it's a touch more expensive. But if that doesn't bother you and you can find a copsurp .40 pistol for good price, go right ahead.

Nothing at all. I carry 9mm, .40 or .45. All serve their purpose and all will kill a man dead.

>High pressure round causes gun to wear quicker and results in "snappier" recoil making follow up shots slower
>Barely provides any additional stopping power over modern 9mm, terminal effects of handgun rounds are minimal unless you step up to a big bore round like 10mm and up
>Lose on penetration especially hard barrier penetration big time compared to 9mm
>Loses on capacity compared to 9mm
>Cost more per round than 9mm

And yes, 40 is way worse at penetration:

youtube.com/watch?v=mUxE9vNgt8E
youtube.com/watch?v=j2lwNjafHS8
youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3OiKsZqiA

Nothing wrong with the .40 cartridge itself. It's a great caliber. It's like a harder hitting 9mm. And it's considered a "major caliber" in competitive circles so you can compete in races with it on another level.

However there is a lot of 9mm milsurp ammo available, and more people use 9mm, so the prices are cheaper on 9mm, causing even more people to use 9mm. It's a positive feedback loop. If you enjoy shooting, which we all do, cheap ammo allows you to pull the trigger more when money is any factor at all, which it usually is. So there's that.

There are also a few odd but genuine reasons other than price that someone might prefer 9mm over .40 including in my case, an XD40 subcompact being overpowered and difficult to control. The thing is a little cannon, and I can shoot it accurately but I have to grip the thing so hard, it's just not very fun shooting. Other subcompacts, especially metal frames, may not have this issue. And it's not an issue with the XD40 4" service model, only the subcompact.

Also I would probably not recommend a .40 (or .45) to a lady unless she was either big boned and strong, or already proficient with firearms.

>Less cost then 9mm.
Incorrect. You are comparing exspensive, heavier grain 9mm rounds to .40

The worst thing about it is that it's not 10mm

And they're super cheap because nobody wants them

>Thinking .04 inches matters

P much
Nato was going to adopt 5.7 to replace 9mm but Germany threw a fit and suspended it indefinitely.
Fucking Germans ruin everything

how big can that sample size actually be? no one carries 5.7

5.7 to replace 9mm in Sub guns and PDWs, not ALL 9mm

yes it is

>Fort hood shooter
>Cartels
>U.S. Secret service
>Duluth, GA police
>Landis, NC Police
>Various people who use 5.7 for EDC and/or Home defense
>All just US examples

>No sample size

A lot of private security units as well as some fbi and most special service members do. Some police units are using it too.

This is dumb, 9mm compared to 5.7 offers different bullet types and grain counts. One big benefit given to 9mm is its capabilities of staying subsonic, without a massive decrease in power. 5.7's has its own benefits as you have explained, but also more importantly from its armor piercing capabilities, when added to it. This is not even mentioning the fact that it is a light pistol bullet, so penetration can be an issue.

It's a pistol caliber. Also there is a huge range in grain weight from 9mm to .45. .45 is also naturally subsonic. For 9mm you need to buy 140+ grain to get subsonic and at that point it loses all the benefits 9mm has. 5.7 also has no problem penetrating due to the velocity it has. I tested it on a black bear head and it went clean through the forehead and tore a massive chunk out of the back. I believe Chuke outdoors has a similar video using a brown bear skull

Use .357 Sig and join the rest of us in the modern world.

Depends if you're talking about subcompacts or full size. Full size 9mm's usually cap out around 20 rounds in a mag while .45 usually tops out at about 15. Not that significant when you can carry multiple magazines. 9mm really shines in subcompacts when you get something like 12 rounds to .45 ACP's 7. Recoil impulse is in the eye of the beholder. I've always found .45 ACP to be buttery smooth such that it's pretty easy to compensate and remain on target for follow-up shots. Even in extreme cases, it doesn't make that much of a difference anyways. Here's a good video comparing .357 and .44, with an interesting finding that time between shots doesn't change that much even with substantial differences in recoil. youtube.com/watch?v=MjxryJ9FKVA. It's also pretty ridiculous to completely dismiss the fact that 45 ACP does have a larger wound channel when comparing properly designed hollow-points.

>Armor Piercing
>Penetration can be an issue
Pick one

Nothing but it is more expensive to shoot than 9mm. Also if you put it in too small of a gun like the Glock 27 (versus a 26), it can be a bit snappy. That said, if you don't mind ammo being a more expensive and you're looking for a Glock 19/23 sized gun, then there's nothing wrong with it and you can get a barrel swap for .357sig which is kind of a nice perk. If you like a little heavier bullet vs. 9mm and understand the trade offs then go for it but 9mm is about as good.

Size of round only equates to capacity in similarly sized guns, you forgot to point out that 9mm and 40cal can come in smaller sized guns than .45 which is a plus for conceal carry. You also failed to mention the price point of 9mm which is it's biggest selling point to someone who shoots a lot. If you're going through a few hundred rounds a week at the range, the price difference can add up to a significant amount.

See this gun? I put about 3 hundred rounds through it the day I took this picture. There's nothing wrong with 10mm but you, you sir need to learn to maintain your weapon. Your screws are damaged and your weapon is filthy.
>nb4 that's from 1 range trip.

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Everybody seems to forget the fact that while comparable to 9mm in ballistics, the mass of .40s&w allows it to penetrate modern plexiglass car windshields unlike its German counterpart, hence its continued use amongst police organizations in the US.

Actually some of the single stack CC guns like the XDS and the Shield come in 9, 40, and 45, though the 40 and 45 both have 1 or 2 rounds less capacity than the 9 (which is 7 in flush mag, 8 in extended)

>plexiglass car windshields
car windows are NOT plexiglass

Is that a wire nut twister in your trigger guard?

>For 9mm you need to buy 140+ grain to get subsonic and at that point it loses all the benefits 9mm has.
What exactly would you be losing though, velocity? Its still a much more potent subsonic round compared to 5.7

I have seen 124gr subsonic loads before, they were actually about the same price as .40 TMJs

>Its still a much more potent subsonic round compared to 5.7
5.7 isn't subsonic. 5.7 due to the velocity causes a lot more damage than 9mm and penetrates better. You lose velocity when you go subsonic with 9mm, which is the main difference between that and larger calibers. Why use subsonic 9 when you can use any .45 acp and have natural subsonic?

And they are in the same category as rip rounds. They are so underloaded they have about the same power as a .380

>putting it in too small of a gun causes snappy recoil

So how would it perform in say, an M&P Shield? There’s one at my local pawn shop chambered in .40S&W that I’ve thought about checking out.

pressure is a little high, for slampipe guns make sure to get pipes rated for PSIs in the 30,000s

A full size (double stack) .45 will be too thick for some hands. Something to consider.

youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0
this paul harrell video convinced me 40 is better than 9

>5.7 isn't subsonic.

But it could be made subsonic. I think his point was that when 5.7 is made subsonic, it basically becomes expensive .22lr, whereas 9mm is still effective when subsonic

>Why use subsonic 9 when you can use any .45 acp and have natural subsonic?

Because 147gr hollow points are a very common 9mm load, and pretty much all of them are subsonic even when they're +P. They're every bit as good, if not better than their counterparts in the more common 124gr bullet weight

Im pretty certain you said
>it loses all the benefits 9mm has
which was towards subsonic, even though thats not the point. Yes you lose velocity and power, but otherwise it is a step up compared to the 5.7. You can go subsonic is what I am saying with the 5.7 versus 9mm.

>Why use subsonic 9 when you can use any .45 acp and have natural subsonic?
Okay what does this honestly mean
>natural subsonic
Like I get what you mean by the fact that a general 45aarp bullet will be 230 grains, therefore being subsonic. But that doesn't make it any more significant, except for being more available and convenient in finding ammo. Otherwise getting a 9mm 147gr isn't really that hard and it hits fairly close to a 45.

Paul harrell did a demonstration on 147 grain 9mm loads. They underperformed 115 grain in every aspect.

> Majority of 5.7 shootings are one shot stops
Link that good shit, por favor. If Duluth and Landis PDs are seeing 30+ sample size single shot drops from officer shootings, the world needs to know that a 28gr SS-195 bullet going 2000fps is even more effective than all their patrol rifles spitting 55gr at 3000fps so we can tell /arg/ to go jump in a lake.

Fucking PS90 about to become the white tail rifle of choice.

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115gr 9mm loads are the reason .40S&W was created.

must have been unscientific tests. I trust TNoutdoors9's tests more, and his tests have shown that 147gr loads tend to penetrate deeper in ballistic gel, just like they're supposed to.

>Custom load vs factory load
make a better comparison faggot

Also, I dont think anyone is trying to compare 5.7 to 5.56, this is about pistol calibers. Patrol rifles dont enter into this.

Nothing. It's a great cartridge as long as you can handle the snappiness

Nothing is wrong. It has great bullets made for it. Works well through barriers like auto glass per testing. Has great terminal ballistics. Cost is closer to 9mm than .45.

Downsides are the drop in capacity which can be small like with Glocks or relatively big in other guns, it is more difficult to shoot than 9mm, and just generally has the issue of being "the middle child."

For almost any gun you consider in .40, the 9mm gun is probably more appealing due to round count, ease of use, ammo cost, etc. I think .40s biggest advantages are the bullets that got developed for it and the component commonality with 10mm.

Out of a metal frame handgun such as Sig Sauer's and HK's, the .40 feels like sex. I'd feel very confident carrying a .40 handgun

Also I'm not bisexual I swear

Which metal frame HK?

That was a typo, I meant HP's. As in the Browning Hi-Power

Oh ok, fair enough.

No lie 40sw is probally best out of the USP

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Hipower is snappy in 9mm with a general inability to handle +p, the .40 bhps are supposed to be even worse

Yeah, after finger fucking both USPs and USP compacts I say either would be a candidate for .40 for me.

> Rifles don't enter into it
Majority of patrol rifle shootings aren't one shot stops, even with bonded soft points. So when I hear that 2 PDs are doing better with less powder and weighted .22s out of a 4" barrel, I get interested in seeing their data to know how they've overcome physics.

>Making holes 60% larger in a person gives no advantage in lethality
lol that's why you carry .25 acp right?
9mm can't possibly be more lethal.

Objectively false, .45 it's a mathematical fact that .45 can cause more tissue damage per round.
>inb4 this doesn't matter because it's all about poking holes in major organs/blood vessels
Maybe learn to math a little bit so you can begin to understand the relationship between hole diameter and flow rate before opening your ignorant mouth.
>but muh jello experts said there's no real world difference!
Love the way that real life shootings and shooting studies totally aren't evidence of anything but how flawed their premises are when their results disagree with 9mmfags but the second an anecdote could support their opinions its suddenly valid to bring them up. Don't mindlessly believe any experts, i've read most of the public works by GKR, fackler, Co&Co, Di Maio, and several other experts or relevant studies over the years. They're all full of shit a significant amount of the time.

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>Landis NC
that tiny farm town in the mountains north of Charlotte? I'm sure the two cops had a luagh selecting that one as a carry piece for exterminating rogue raccoons.

3/8" Sch.80 pipe would probably do for the barrel, the loose bullet fit will prevent it from reaching full pressure.
3/4" Sch.80 is the best option for the receiver. You may need to wrap the barrel with tape to get a good fit in the receiver.
The hard part will be headspacing the cartridge -- you'll need a C-clip in the extractor groove to serve as a rim, or something like that.

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Are you doubting the meat target?

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It’s used in shatterproof windows, faggot.

For good reason.

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I hate the .40 so god damn fucking much, but if you're recoil sensitive you still shouldn't use it. Go for a 45 instead or the 9mm

No, it's not

Shatterproof windows have a thin layer of PVB, they do not resist bullets very well at all.

Dumb cunt.

>MFW newfags who don't even understand fackler or the importance of hims saying that repost it
It's like if hitler came out in favor of racial equality 2/3rds of the way through the holocaust and everybody called him a kike for it.
Sorry paul, not everybody thinks that watermelon/oranges are equivalent to flesh. some people have actually spent time elbows deep in once living animals.

165 grain handles better (i.e. much less snappy) than 180 grain.

I "hate" the .40 because it hindered the success of 10mm and .357 sig. But it's history doesnt affect it's functionality so objectively speaking while it is not as good as .357 sig it isn't THAT bad either.

9mm is the better penetrator and almost anything will go through a windshield

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>Reading comprehension

>buying a smith with a hillary hole
Disgusting

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t. dicklet

sticky this. i'm a boomer and shoot 45 ACP but he's not wrong.

This is the real answer for most of the internet.

>High pressure round causes gun to wear quicker and results in "snappier" recoil making follow up shots slower

Only in guns that were lazily designed

>Barely provides any additional stopping power over modern 9mm, terminal effects of handgun rounds are minimal unless you step up to a big bore round like 10mm and up

Thats not why it was adopted, it penetrates better through barriers. This is stuff that people who actually fight with guns care about.

>Lose on penetration especially hard barrier penetration big time compared to 9mm

Lol no

>Loses on capacity compared to 9mm
>Cost more per round than 9mm

Marginally

Gel isn't the end all be all.

Lol I heard some guy complain about glocks being made of plastic and how HKs were better. Then I told they they too were made of plastic.

Where did it touch you?

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Enjoy your bitch wrists bro.

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actually it's only 0.029 inches

its not 357 sig

>hole diameter and flow rate
> Today I learned user plans to just wait until his attacker passes out from blood loss, like a white tail. I wanted to suggest that maybe the failure-to-stop drill was a better solutio , but user knows what he's doing.

Just because your uncle says so doesnt make it so. Dumb bastard

>9mm gives you more shots
you don't have to be a good shot because you can shoot a bunch of times and maybe get lucky. That is why 9mm is the best. You get two more shots than a .40.

Not him, but you're a fucking idiot. Bloodloss plays a huge fucking role because a sharp drop in blood presure will make anyone unconscious.

It was made to fill a niche that doesn't exist and has nothing going for it that other cartridges do.
>9mm: Muh cost of ammo. Muh selection of handguns.
>.45: Muh Colt 1911. Muh stoppan powah.
>357: Muh revolvers.
>22LR: Muh $0.05 per round. Muh rifles. Muh pistols. Muh lack of recoil.
>5.7: Muh projectile speed. Muh ammo capacity. Muh Recoil.
>40 S&W: Muh.... cheap guns?

>G A P E

That was my first thought exactly, the two of them probably put it down on a supply req form and actually got them.
Lucky bastards.

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