While I hate the idea of black and white aircraft generations it seems to be a term that won't leave us alone. With the first of the next generation fighters unveiled this week with the UK's Tempest, what features do we expect to see in the aircraft of the mid-2030's? So far we have Tempest, Mig 41, an unnamed Franco-German project and F/A-XX. All other jets in development seem to just be 5th gens.
It seems, at least for the UK, that the next generation of fighters will:
>Be optionally manned - with unnamed aircraft under the control or a local manned aircraft
>Sensor fusion on steroids with augmented reality (The BAE test booth was showing a striker helmet with fully customisable virtual cockpit where the pilot can arrange data as needed. Pilots could also look out and see augmented reality thread domes for SAM's and radars
>directed energy weapons
>'novel' defensive technologies. Maybe an airborne active protection system, perhaps involving lasers?
>360' multispectral sensors - bulge on the rear of tempest looks to be for rear-facing radar and IR sensor, wings to have side facing radar.
It seems that hypersonic manned fighters have been ignored in place of having hypersonic weapons
The defining feature of the next generation is gong to be cancellations. Look at the development timeline of all the stealth projects we know of, massive cost overruns and delays are the norm. The F-35 is the best run stealth program so far and that had the advantages of using the bureaucratic framework that was developed over the lifetime of the F-16 program, the experience of building the F-22 and the fact it was the 5th US stealth aircraft program. Other nations attempting similar feats without that experience will see more problems and delays then normal, resulting in most getting canceled.
I expect only two or three 5+ gen aircraft to make it to production.
Luke Martinez
>The F-35 is the best run stealth program so far
Not even close. F117 was.
But American beurocacy issues are hardly going to affect other nations.
Jordan Diaz
>I don't know what I'm talking about and just throwing around unsubstantiated bullshit
Dominic Jones
Not that guy, but the F-117 program absolutely was run extremely well. Barely any cost overruns, delivered on time, and delivered with zero compromise from the original concept, all while being kept a complete secret from most of the US for the better part of a decade.
Angel Nguyen
F35 IS A PIECE OF SHIT
Levi Bell
This is a very good analysis. You forgot to mention the massive resource gap between the US and other countries, the US has the most and best engineers and the most capital to throw at any military project. During 2030-2040 the US will be the only developed country (along with Turkey, so yeah, no real competition) that will have a healthy demographic pyramid, all other will have much fewer young working adults than pensioners.
Nicholas King
You don't know any of that because it was a secret project no one knew about for a long time so there's no documentation about it.
Jeremiah Cook
You mad bro? TheF-35 is literally the best and most advanced fighter jet on Earth, stay angry your country's shit tier Mig-21s can't keep up.
Angel Sullivan
Go to sleep, it's past your bedtime Pierre
Benjamin Anderson
F-117 was a well run program but lacks a great deal of documentation, to the point that when GAO was told to review USAF aircraft procurement programs they couldn't review F-117 past saying that it seemed to work. Therefore saying that it is the best run is if not inaccurate then at least unprovable. This is doable due to the limited scope of the program, only a single buyer for only 64 specialized single role airframes. F-35 on the other hand was a multi-role aircraft built for nine nations with planed production of over 3,000. The fact that the program made deliveries with only minor criticisms from oversight agencies - the popular press being a whole other story of course - is incredible and really speaks to how well the program was managed.
As for other nations not facing such issues you are incorrect. The SU-57 program faltered when they could not reconcile requirements between just two nations, Russia and India. Countless joint European projects have run into major and sometimes project killing issues as a result of being unable to run a joint program and going at it alone is no guarantee either. Large projects require large bureaucracy, that is just how things work.
Joseph Garcia
I believe you hit everything except adaptive cycle engines. As far as 6th gen programs go, the Airforce has the PCA going, and the MiG 41 isn't getting built.
It is 5+. 6th gen needs to be more distinguishable from the F-35, which is going to be upgraded to have basically all those features before the Tempest is in service.
Ivan your country will never have decent combat aircraft. Grip that L.
Josiah Brown
Implying optionally manned isn't a huge leap
Lucas Adams
>implying the F35 won't be optionally manned in the future its literally a sensor, processor, software upgrade that the F35 was designed to easily do
Lucas Hernandez
rel sabre engines. it's possible.
Nathaniel Ross
404 program not found.
Joseph Miller
Mine maybe not, but Russia sure will have.
Chase Flores
>most advanced fighter jet on Earth >worse than F-22 in every way >not even a real 5th gen
Anthony Ward
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Leo Williams
explain how the F35 couldn't be upgraded to be fully autonomous when its sensor systems, software, and processors can all be easily switched out
William Howard
You're living in a fantasy world where you think being optionally manned is just a program you can install in an aircraft.
The entire aircraft is designed to provide information to a human in the cockpit and take instructions from him.
Those 9 billion lines of code can't just be upgraded to do everything itself. Almost every aspect of the aircraft needs changed.
Fact of the matter is that you have no concept of what's involved in making a UAV - so you think it's easy.
Kevin Lee
Turkey isn’t developed
Juan Sullivan
It was done before but using older planes e.g. Phantoms turned into target drones. However, this is inefficient as human piloted planes have many safety features not needed by drones.
Tyler Mitchell
That's not even close to the same thing, that's radio controlled servos still operating mechanical controls.
It's short range and only good for taking off and flying on a bearing
Jaxon Edwards
I love it. It's perfect Jow Forums bait. A pretty reasonable fighter with some stupid marketing buzzwords strapped it that's British.
This is going to cause shitposting and 450+ post threads for years.
Noah Adams
The ECM, Infowar and force networking stuff is light years ahead of the F-22, as is some of the methods used in the construction. The engine is more powerful as well.
Truthfully I'd rather they take all of that shit and shove it in the F-22's airframe and call it a day. Make a carrier capable one too, and then let the marines have their stupid VTOL bullshit B model.
Hunter Myers
Why not just give the marines two ships; one carrier with a single catapault and a helicopter landing dock?
Ryan Collins
Because the marines are underfunded as shit and the only way they were ever getting new aircraft is via the JSF program, huge fucking mistake that it was.
Gabriel Jackson
You literally think switching out the sensors, processors, and memory of an F35, which it is designed to do, couldn't create a autonomous drone. WTF is wrong with you? The billion lines of codes is a fucking hard drive in the F35 which can be switched to a ram computer easily. That was the modular point of the F35. You can delete the sensors and computer components and start anew unlike the F22. Those billions lines of code aren't magic. They are stored on a series of harddrives and all can be replaced.
Jordan Diaz
>Other nations attempting similar feats without that experience will see more problems and delays then normal, resulting in most getting canceled. Other nation are try to create their F-22 not F-35.
Hunter Davis
The Brits aren't even trying to do that. They're making a good-enough stealth Typhoon with drone controls.
Charles Garcia
>huge fucking mistake that it was.
t. F-16 critic in the 70s.
Grayson Foster
Northrop Grumman won't get the contract cause they just got the bomber. Either Boeing or Lockheed Martin.
Isaac Sanchez
Even though they halted production? The su-50 has PAK-FAiled my dude
the only link theyll have is the fact that they will be both dicontinued
Logan Anderson
The drone did serve its function. It's reconed the state of Russia.
Jonathan Lee
I think you'll find my original statement was that being optionally manned is a big leap forward in capability.
You're the one who's getting us bogged down in pettiness about how turning aircraft into target drones must be the same as autonomous combat.
Any autonomous version of F35 would be a new aircraft, it'd take years of development and many changes physical to the aircraft.
Bentley Miller
The Russian ministry of defence canceled the current schedule for mass production. The aircraft isn't cancelled, they are just extending the development period by a few years to improve the aircraft.
The 12 on order will be development and testing aircraft.
Mass production will start after 2020 at a date that's yet to be set.
This was all in the speech announcing the decision.
Nolan Ortiz
the only thing uk is good at delivering so far is delusions because when it comes to weapons systems they are far from reliable
currently usa doesnt have any 6th gen plans uk for sure cannot be qualified for one the europe one seems to be on track of what people think a 6th gen needs to be the russians.. well i still suspect that the su 57 is just a fucking testbed for whatever comes next only time will tell.. the f35 is just a fucking program to make money and nothing more this became more apparently the day the F16IN became a thing and we learned that the so called fusion of f35 isnt just an f35 thing afterall....
Alexander Morris
>we will shut down the line and then open it back up with no orders from the Russian goverment or anyone else.
Cool story Bro.
Jonathan Carter
>my girlfriend definitely exists she just can't come visit until she finishes med school just wait you will see
Gavin Peterson
No, the line isnt being shut down, thats the purpose of the 12 aircraft. Mass production is being delayed not cancelled.
Have you actually read the statement or are you just bleeting buzzfeed tier drivel in hope?
Nolan King
12 aircraft are to be delivered by 2019. Zero aircraft will be made in 2019.
What do we call a factory not doing anything?
Easton Nguyen
Yep, only China and a theoretical European cooperation have the money to fund a true gen 5+, And à chaînées one would lag being in technology, and an European one would be terrible because of political compromises
Nathaniel Lewis
>implying no new orders will be placed in the next 18 months
oh and the first two are due in 2019, nothing at all about all 12 in the next 5 Months.
You're so desperate to shit on the project that you're making a fool of yourself.
Thomas Murphy
>'novel' defensive technologies. Maybe an airborne active protection system, perhaps involving lasers?
With Tank APS and laser-based CIWS already appearing i'm pretty sure active protection on aircraft will be a thing.
It'll be delicious flying around with a laser shooting down fuck huge and outdated Russian SAM's with impunity.
Cooper Watson
None of that will happen
Lincoln Walker
6th gen will be UCAV, with either a similar arsenal (Meteor / IRIS-T etc) or their counterparts, with less advanced platforms as relays . Focus will first be on platforms with stealth (duh), AI, and next generation sensors. As 6th gen progresses, focus will shift to cheaper platforms and larger numbers, with more varied specifications (ie. recon, intercept, attack sea/air/ground). Weapons will more or less stay the same.
Thomas King
They already said no more orders will be placed, you even said it in a previous post
Josiah Hernandez
There are already plans to mount a laser system on the F-35B in place of its vertical lift fan
Daniel Lopez
Here's one of the sources, I had some better ones and a chart from the USAF explaining it, but I'm on mobile right now so I'm going to have to post that when I get home wired.com/story/lockheed-martin-fighter-jets-lasers/
Thomas Parker
Russian focus is currently on things like modernising the navy (with steregushky) and army ie. relatively cheap and more pressing holes to fill than a new fighter. Seems like they, as always, cede the air to the west and continue to toute their AA platforms as sufficient.
Luis Hernandez
Not sure quite what would make this a 6th gen over what is already in/soon to enter service, but this isn't quite as far flung a prospect as some people in this thread seem to think. The UK has the capacity to build stealth, and much of what it is meant to do is already within the realms of possibility, or within spitting distance thereof. Going to be an interesting project to watch.
Leo Wilson
The Navy, Airforce and Marines all have drastically different requirements for a fighter. To attempt to combine all of these into a single airframe was lunacy from the get go, and resulted in a mediocre airframe that happens to have god tier ECM, Infowar and Force Networking capabilities. Even its stealth is worse than the F-22. Taking all of the electronics and engine upgrades for the F-35 and sticking them in the F-22's airframe is a vastly better idea than continuing to produce the F-35.
Julian Harris
>The Navy, Airforce and Marines all have drastically different requirements for a fighter. Wrong. The F-16, Legacy Hornets, and Harriers all filled pretty much identical roles.
>resulted in a mediocre airframe surely you have some evidence to back this up
The russian minister for defence literally said these 12 aircaft (ontop of what they already have will be delivered from 2019 over a period of a few years and be used for further study and evaluation.
They are literally just waiting for the new engines and to make tweeks we wont find out about before comiting to mass production.
This project is fart too advanced to just call it off.
Su-30 and Su-35 are the final versions of the Flanker series. there may be a few more variants of them but they will need replacing.
Nolan Allen
>Harrier >Identical role to F-16 and Legacy Hornet
Pull the other one
>surely you have some evidence to back this up I mean, the fact that it's less maneuverable, less durable and able to carry less than the F-22 kinda speaks for itself.
>Wrong Thing has a RCS twice that of the F-22 despite being 2/3rds the size.
Try more faggot.
Jordan Stewart
Harrier, Legacy Hornet, and F-16 all are strike fighters. The Harrier was the most ground-attack focused of the three, but the F-35 fills the roles of all three while vastly improving on the Harrier by adding a more realistic air-to-air capability.
>I mean, the fact that it's less maneuverable, less durable and able to carry less than the F-22 kinda speaks for itself. Good thing it's not replacing the F-22 then. It's more maneuverable than the F-16 with any useful load, and it's more than maneuverable enough for what it needs to do. The meme-tier supermaneuverability the F-22 has is neat and all, but it's useless for any practical application.
>Thing has a RCS twice that of the F-22 despite being 2/3rds the size. surely you have some evidence to back up your claims
>Thing has a RCS twice that of the F-22 despite being 2/3rds the size.
Maybe right out of the factory. But not after it flies through a cloud or sits outdoors for a day or two.
Jason Robinson
>The meme-tier supermaneuverability the F-22 has is neat and all, but it's useless for any practical application.
See you say that now because no other country has practical stealth capabilities and so BVR combat is the name of the game. But once Russia and China and potentially Europe actually have Stealth technology, BVR radar lock is going to be a thing of the past, and we'll be back to the old knife fight in a phone booth style combat, and we'll be shit out of luck because our enemies are focused on air superiority fighters combat, while we focused multi-role strike fighters to blow up goat fuckers in the desert.
Liam Long
That's not how stealth vs stealth air combat works you low iq dumb shit.
Jaxson Edwards
You're retarded. Supermaneuverability is useless even in a knife-fight - all it does is bleed off energy. With AIM-9X, the F-35's more than maneuverable enough even if it gets into knife-fighting range.
You are not supposed to reveal state secrets in a public forum.
Austin Parker
None of these fighters have done anything of note. All talk.
Lincoln Nguyen
>Go back to your bread famine ivan
top kek
Hudson Hughes
>Turkish next gen programme >Iranian next-gen programme >British next-gen programme
m8, whats with all these 3rd world muslim shitholes announcing aerospace projects that they are far too incompetent to complete?
Jacob Miller
>only Lockheed can design and build a capable 5th gen fighter, I know this because Lockheed told me, that's also why I'll send 3/4th of my annual military R&D budget to them. They also don't like competition.
Oh gosh, nose aside I hope they stay on this course. I don't care if it's good, it just must be as sexy as the rafale is.
Blake Johnson
>Lockheed only hires Yanks to shill
Bentley Howard
i genuinely have no understanding of why you have so strong an inferiority complex towards some irrelevant American corporation when neither I nor you are American. I simply asked a question and you began crying about lockheeb shartin for reasons unknown
