Out of all the pistol calibers from the early 20th century...

Ze Germans planted those lead seeds all over the planet and the locals started growing them. 45 didn't take root because it's in imperial units. Europeans hate that shit.

> Glock and Beretta set the standard for double stack ...
Suggest you try googling " Browning Hi-Power"!

The most important was it was high pressure. High pressure meant they could make it smaller for the same or more energy. Smaller meant it was more practical for smaller handguns. Smaller meant cheaper ammo. Smaller meant it was more practical when double stack magazines came along.

>long barrel carbines
>Glock and Beretta
Someone doesn't know when this cartridge came from. I suggest looking up "MP-18," and "Browning Hi-Power."

Aren't .22s the most popular ammo?

Not for defense.

After ww2 the only real choices were .45 acp, 9mm and 7.62mm.

Because the P35/Hi Power uses it. When all those countries adopted it, they adopted the cartridge, too.

Is good.

>How did 9mm Parabellum become the most popular pistol cartridge in the world?

user its a 36
that is the 380
also the 9mm
which is the same for 44 gunz bullets

Bad shot detected

Good digits though

That was a European adopted firearm, you think anyone copies Europe? The world only cares what the U.S.A. does. Police and military in the U.S. adopted glock and beretta. Europeans are not even allowed to own 9x19 caliber as civilians most of the time. Firearms manufactures here would collapse without having civilian sales, their arms market development is a joke that has to mimic the U.S. or rely completely off guidance of people in the U.S. that want firearms, and trying to refine older designs, because they don't have any legitimate threats to base their weapon needs off of. BHP was an American design anyway and pretty much a copy of the 1911 while trying not to get sued for copying the 1911.
I only said the round really stuck around because double stack 9's popped up. I probably could have worded it a bit different but beer. The pistols back when it was invented were just scarce and people tried to get what they wanted, carbines are basically what made the round popular until decades later.

People have survived direct shots to the head and heart with pretty much every common caliber. More is better. And more+.22lr=shit feeding.

Handguns are a fashion accessory in modern militaries. Caliber doesn't matter at all.

>pretty much a copy of the 1911 while trying not to get sued for copying the 1911

LOL DUDE WHAT

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>BHP was an American design anyway and pretty much a copy of the 1911 while trying not to get sued for copying the 1911.
What the fuck am I reading?
Was browning going to sue himself?

I wish .357 sig caught on.

RETARD ALERT

Same, my brother. Same.
>$25/box for fmj

It was made by the same guy. He was trying to remake the 1911 without copying it exactly because he'd already sold the patents. That's why they're extremely similar but shaped a tiny bit differently.
He designed the 1911 pistol for Colt. While he invented it, he didn't own the rights to it. This is all a very commonly known fact. I'm not sure why you philistines would have an issue with this.

This is true. JMB and his protege wanted to make a new firearm design around the rules that the French military had requested, and they could not infringe on 1911 patents they had sold to Colt. Thus, the Hi-Power.

9mm because "the pistol round" for the same reason 5.56 became "the rifle round". quantity over quality, why get better at shooting when you can just throw more bullets at your target, you'll hit something eventually. That is an ok mindset if all you are trying to do is suppress the enemy until artillery can bombard the shit out of them.

yup this is it

>It has optimal ballistic performance
>it’s not a compromise
>”son, let me tell you about the 9mm Parabellum. God’s own cartridge.”

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this, plus short enough for comfortable grip lengths. you can double stack 7.63x25, but the grip is unwieldy.

you're a fucking idiot.

>How did 9mm Parabellum become the most popular pistol cartridge in the world?
NATO and Glock
>What did it do those other pistol cartridges couldn't do?
not much just got some contracts with military and LEO around the world. its all about money, not the cartridge

Are you telling me that volume of fire isn't specifically used to suppress the enemy until you can bring heavier weapons to bare on them?

>you’re a fucking idiot

He’s not wrong though. The 9mm is a **good** round. Faggots like you read “something else out there is better, therefore he’s saying 9mm is bad!” The .40 S&W is better, the .45 ACP is better, the .357 SIG is better but 9mm is generally cheaper and has a lot of institutional interia behind it. Read the FBI report - they literally say “9mm is cheaper and we just don’t want to
Retrain our diversity hir- err powerful women because they won’t use their guns anyway.” The 9mm Luger isn’t going anywhere soon and for good reason. Just relax

Interesting, what features of the 1911 were patented so as to make them a no-go for the HP?

Not that user, retard alert here. It was minor stuff. The tilting barrel design was okay to use but the linkage system for it wasn't and had to be shaped differently. The trigger system. guide rod assembly (1911 has a replaceable part on the front that's a cap to hold it on where stress of it hits that part and it is cheaper/easier to replace than if it were just part of the slide or frame) Just look at the two they look very similar and then look at the differences. If it weren't for the grip and front part the overall look of the slide and frame is extremely close to the 1911 the parts you notice that are different from the 1911 are the parts you're wondering about.

A quick read through the Development part of the wiki article on the Hi-Power will answer your questions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

Thanks Jow Forumsnowledgeable bros

The truth is, four things in Chronological order made the 9mm popular.

1. The Germans used it
2. Browning and Inglis Hi-Power
3. NATO adopted it
4. Sig Sauer and Glock

So in general, blame Europe.

You can't trust wiki stubs. You kind of have to break down the things and look at them. 1911's had internal extractors that are known to cause a lot of malfunctions because people like to try to ride the extractor over a round in the chamber and it's just a flimsey thing to fit in it internally, while the BHP has an external extractor and those can be a lot beefier and not get bent from riding over a cartridge to reach the extractor groove. That's why you always have to load a 1911 through the mag well to chamber a round a lot of the time because 1911's with external extractors are newer models with other minor changes, or were retrofitted. Otherwise if you want a +1 in it you have to pop in the mag, chamber a round, drop the mag, reload a round into the mag, reinsert the magazine. Where other guns with external extractors are not that temperamental about it where it won't really damage the extractor as quickly or badly as a smaller internal one just popping a round in through the ejection port. When you look up armorer information on why 1911's go wrong and compare it to stuff like BHP you can kind of see where there were a lot of weaknesses or benefits in either design even though they were intended to be extremely similar.

>.45 acp is better

It's ok man, you're still allowed to like your overpriced 1911, just don't pretend it's a good weapon

go back to your boomer cave, faggot

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>Yep, it just doesn’t get better than a Glock chambered in 9mm. Other guns are just too snappy!

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>muh 9 is just as good as anything else!

9mm fags really are in denial

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the relationship between Colt and FN regarding Browning's designs is/was more or less "Colt has the rights in Americas & FN in Europe", an example of this in practice: in late '30s/early 1940 Finland and Sweden both wanted production license for AN/M2, before the negotiations with FN could be finished Germany steamrolled Belgium & that plan fell through, when Finns and Swedes approached Colt they were told "no can do, FN has the rights in Europe", in the end Sweden took some partial schematics they had 'acquired' while Finland took a couple Colt-made guns from a Brewster & the two countries reverse-engineered the gun together.

I can't tell if that's a big, fat, colossal bait or this guy is seriously thinking all that bullshit

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>you think anyone copies Europe?
Springfield 1903
Enfield P1917
The US adopting 9mm as a whole
All the US copying Europeans.

Browning Hi-Powers are double-stack. They "popped up" decades before Gaston even thought of guns instead of curtainrods.

>The US adopting 9mm as a whole
God, how I wish more agencies had started using .357 Sig.

>.357 Sig
>1994 design

Too late

It's just outside of being a blowback pistol round. 9x19 versus 9x17 (.380), or later 9x18 makarov. Hi-point makes blowback 9mm handguns but they have huge slides and are heavy.

9mm was that step up that worked out mechanically, and was a simple economical cartridge that also performed well in blowback submachine guns. A relatively light cartridge going relatively fast so as to still have energy after defeating light cover or traveling 100 yards.

Russians did all their shit in 7.62 so they could utilize tooling for barrels across calibers. 7.62x25 is a more complex cartridge to manufacture but proved concept that a light projectile moving fast can work well as a pistol or smg round. But they later went with 9x18 makarov... maybe because 7.62x39 would better fill the role of smg

for starters it's the more potent cartridge (7.65x21mm Parabellum and 9x19mm Parabellum) for the better of the two first successful self-cycling pistols (Mauser and Luger), the fact that the other successful pistol was also made available in 9mm Para didn't hurt either, if you look at the pistol cartridges available at the beginning of 20th century you'll see that there were very few non-anemic ones available, Luger and Mauser became immediately popular pretty much everywhere & with those guns' original 7.63/7.65mm calibers being considered inferior to the 9mm it was the 9mm version of each that caught on after it became available, after the war both Lugers and Mausers sold rather well & as such the 9mm round gained popularity to the point that many countries started to adopt it, then when SMGs started to appear the need for a potent pistol cartridge for that use made the 9mm Parabellum the go-to round in Europe as it was already in use, when after the WWII various nations looked at what calibers they had in use in order to decide what to standardize on they saw a half a dozen different rifle calibers & a fuck-ton of pistols and SMGs in 9x19mm Parabellum.

^ This.

9mm pistols are cheap to build and cheap to make ammo for.

>.45 ACP is better
in what exactly, except keeping Americans working for manufacturers of .45" ACP (& the guns using it-) employed?

Probably. I'm still hoping that windshields + DPS + monolithic HPs might eventually result in cheaper training ammo.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Alright fucking fight me. I got one beer left to drink off this hang over, and a pot of coffee I'm going to tell someone else to make

Nobody is going to argue about it starting in Europe first. Americans just made 9mm better and the Europeans would have dropped it entirely if the Americans hadn't made it better. The fact America had picked it up has more to do with their allies being incompetent at producing anything else so it was easier for them to refine that design and do it better so they wouldn't have to scrap all their current machinery. It's like letting your ex gf be your fuck buddy so she isn't an incel. You dumped her but she still needs the D.

9x19 was an early experiment in smokeless powder rounds. Early means more experiments and people playing it safe. Look at 9x17 to 10x17, 9x19 doesn't offer anything between them that either can't do in a similar sized handgun.

>you think anyone copies Europe?

LOL, yes, pretty much.

Stop it user :(

>4. Sig Sauer and Glock

Rest of the world here, waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before Sig and Glock, 9 Para was the most widespread cartridge.

check'd satan

nigga, did you read the rest of the chronological list?

I should clarify the list for idiots like Four things in Chronological order made the 9mm popular.

1. The Germans used it (1902-Present)
2. Browning and Inglis Hi-Power/Commonwealth Standard (1935-Present)
3. NATO adopted it (1962-Present)
4. Sig Sauer and Glock (1975-Present)

Not with a .50 BMG. That's a highly common calibre.

different user, you forgot the fact that most SMGs produced since '30s also use(d) it, while many of those can be traced back to Germans, omitting them is an oversimplification.

Yep, just add MP40, MP5, and Uzi, and in general submachine guns post 1930's to that list, and it makes perfect sense.

>That's why they're extremely similar but shaped a tiny bit differently.

You're retarded. The only similarity is how the barrel locks into the slide.

LUGER, BROWNING HIGHPOWER

hello summerkid, come back when you legally own firearms

I’d like a legion SAO in 357sig pls

What about the wonder nines?

>you think anyone copies Europe
>mg42
>9mm
>Berreta
>Special forces
>Shock tactics
>Tanks
It's like you're retarded or something

Lol you’re fucking retarded. John browning designed both and you should take whatever closest firearm you have and fucking kill your self so you don’t breed.
>if you did already do the same to your retarded spawn so they can’t spread.

If they're not polymer they have a polymer variant. If you're fighting with a pistol you're probably going to die anyway. Pistols are weapons of last resort. It's pathetic if the best thing you can reach is a pistol and nothing better.
NATO leads Europe, mg42 are you talking about the german light machine gun that is over a century old and any machine gun in an entrenched position is going to do the same thing? berretta is filling U.S. contracts design guidances, special forces? okay snow flake. shock tactics has always been a thing. tanks? really? lol it's mobile artillery. Artillery usage quickly turns into a war crime everyone measures strength in the amount of technicals they can field and how many fighters it can carry.

So which is it? No one copies Europeans or the US does? Damage control is not an acceptable answer.

NATO adopted 9mm so European countries didn't have to re-do their entire manufacturing lines for something else since they lost control of them and were standardized for them. The fact they don't let their citizens have that and can do something else shows it's time for that little trade agreement to end.

9mm sucks

>The fact they don't let their citizens have that
a couple European countries don't allow civilians to own firearms in military calibers, that doesn't mean every country in Europe does the same you fucking retard.

>are you talking about the german light machine gun that is over a century old and any machine gun in an entrenched position is going to do the same thing?
That German GPMG (not strictly LMG) originated in 1934 with a ''design update'' in 1942, so not a century old. It's still in mainline use in Germany today (albeit rebranded as MG3 in 7.62 NATO), where the machine guns fielded by the US in WW2 aren't really used anymore (M1918 BAR and M1919 MMG). Instead, the US took the MG42 design and modified it into the M60. The rest of NATO decided they also needed in on this new GPMG that the MG34/42 had introduced, and they bought the FN MAG en masse: made to fulfill that same role, and with clear design elements taken from the MG42. I can't really think of a modern GPMG or even SAW in use by NATO today that doesn't have elements like the feed system taken directly from the MG34/42, and that includes the MG4/5, MAG/Minimi, M60, or even the old AA-52. Maybe the HK21, but that's not really been in mainline use, fills the same role as the MG34/42, and was probably made by some of the same German arms designers as the nazi-era stuff. You have to remember that it was absolutely revolutionary: before then, you had box-fed LMG's (like the BAR), belt fed air-cooled LMG's (like the M1919(, and entrenched heavy machine guns (like the M1917 and Maxim). The MG34 replaced all of these, being manoeuvreable like the LMG but dishing out firepower like the HMG. In modern use the GPMG does everything from vehicle mounted to infantry support, with SAW's being deployed on the squad level and .50+ cal HMG's for heavy support. You can't have that trifecta without the original GPMG idea that the MG34/42 introduced.

>shock tactics has always been a thing.
They were introduced and perfected by Europeans in WW1, before the US even bothered to get involved. When they did, the US tried to fight a war in the old ways (like the Europeans tried at the beginning of WW1), they died rapidly, and then copied the Euro storm tactics.
>Tanks? It's mobile artillery
Even the concept of mechanised artillery was invented by Europeans - and the concept of putting armor on that was absolutely revolutionary. The US quickly wanted in on the Mark VIII tank, then the war ended, and then the US forgot. Meanwhile it was the Europeans again advancing tank design before WW2 and into the opening fases. The US then scrambled to get something that wasn't littered with outdated machineguns, made the abysmal M3 Lee, and then made a very decent tank with the M4 - about two years late. They then thought they had done a good job and stopped development. Then they came up against heavy German armor in Europe, and had to modify the M4 to accept 17pdr and 76mm guns. Tank design in the US has always followed Europe fron then on: Germany made the Panther (first MBT), US tried the concept with the Patton, then tried to replace it with the MBT-70 project (partly Euro), which resulted in the Abrams. Only thing not inspired by Euro's in the US post-WW2 tank arsenal was the M103, which was influenced by the scary Russian heavy tanks (IS series).

Its not how big it is: Its how you use it!