Why can’t migs track these fuckers?

>Why can’t migs track these fuckers?
Because MiGs were a mistake. Memes aside, MiGs has no modern radar and their AESA radar developer failed to produce a working piece of equipment.
Su-57 AESA and Su-35 PESA radars are from different developer.

So let's go with your "assumption". Where would that leave us exactly? Correct, in 1990. Know what happened back then? Pro-tip, it wasn't a very good year for Soviet SAM systems.

>Know what happened back then?
Back then USA had power to build up a coalition. And back then US was generation ahead of all weapon on the Soviet market. USSR didn't export S-300 back then. And that generation gap created a situation when US & Co. was able to create jamming tenfold more powerful than Soviet made AA could handle. Literally, not twice the power, not triple the power - tenfold.
And Russians didn't really build up against F-22, because Senate banned export sales. Which means that when F-22 are flying on Russian territory, it's not a time for air defense, it's a time for ICBMs. So, why bother?

Seems to me like the US is doing a damn fine job of bombing 3rd world countries. Look, they killed over 200 of the poor bastards! I bet they come from some shithole still stuck fighting like it's 1980.

nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

>Wants to be taken seriously
>Posts NYT article

>they can't track them but stealth still doesn't work
Hurrrr

>He forgets the syryan coalition strikes and how Russian SAM systems didn't even fire
>He forgets the numerous israli strikes on Syrian SAMs with F-35s
>he forgets about Israeli F-35s repeatedly fly over Russian S-400s according to iran

>anything that isn't RT is fake news

>Legit believing that Russians are in Syria to defend Syrian army.

They gave Syrians just enough equipment to be able to justify establishing bases in key locations that will be in Syria long after the war is over. Unless US/Israel are attacking their bases/positions, Russians will do nothing but watch. They already got what they want.

>Being this openly Drunken Stupid Vatnik

Reminder that the Flanker's only kills are Fulcrums.

kek

>"t-theyre not allies, i-its not like they constantly give them new equipment or anything!"
LOL

>Migs
>built by a third world shithole full of slavs, AIDS and low-quality Vodka
>track anything

You're expecting to much of Russians.

They can't because Russia's economy was gutted by Neoliberal policies that drove its economy and academia into ruins and coincidentally ended up giving a huge portion of its national wealth to a select few oligarchs, almost all from a tiny ethnic minority. But now you will tell me to go to Jow Forums

I mean yeah, it's called winning the cold war without having a nuclear exchange. what solution would you have prefered? the one where Gorbachev revitalized the USSR? the one where Able Archer 83 led to ICBMs flying around in World War 3? the one where the Russian Federation becomes a dynamic and wealthy world power in the late 90s?

No, we had to cut their fucking balls off so they wouldn't be a threat anymore. Now they're a permanent failed state and the only geopolitical threat to the US is China, who we're gonna do the same thing to in a trade war.

F-35 has never been used for strikes in Syria by Israel so far. This actually makes it look even worse for the russian equipment and its success rate.

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hmmm yes cutting off the balls to a state with 12k nukes and ultranationalistic tendencies very wise yes so this is the legendary american foreign policy i've been hearing about.

Serbs: sorry we thought the plane was invisible.

Cant turn.

it worked so it sounds good to me.

Eh, they've got a kleptocracy ruling that desperately wants to keep their power, which is why they are aggressive about pushing as close to serious incidents and back off when there could be retaliation.

>Air campaign basically completely unopposed
>We shot down one stealth fighter under a freakishly perfect confluence of circumstances that will never happen again!

dude, dont get them started. Perhaps, just let the Serbs have that particular win. Third world shitskins like them need such little propaganda victories to give themselves a moral boost since the alternative is to face the unvarnished truth that US & NATO utterly destroyed them with extreme ease.

t. German with a number of Serbian acquaintances.

...?

The worst thing they can do at this point is to invade their neighbours. I don't see how NATO should ever worry about an unstable Russia (other than the threat of misplaced nukes)

>just let the Serbs have that particular win.
Nah, dude. Just nah.
They are like that one guy that only has that one story to tell and he keeps on boasting about it over and over, no one wants to hear it anymore, he turned a nice achievment into nothing by overusing it endlessly. And its no like he is getting the hint, when everyone else starts rolling their eyes, when he once again thinks it is time for his one story.
You can have a lot of respect for serbs, but when they copy russians at their worst behaviour and think it is an okay thing to do, they just deserve a smack in thr face one after another til they start thinking straight again. Btw not even the guy you were talking to.

>12k nukes

how many work lol, after 40 years of drunken broken poor slav maintenance?

There's a reason Putin's first act was to attempt repair of the nuclear complexes.

MiGs have had irst since the Soviet era

"Serbs in woods cooking" (Almazan Kitchen) is a better product of Serbia anyways.

>almost all from a tiny ethnic minority
Which ethnic minority?

underrated

>Putin's first act
The nukes were well maintained in Elsin era too, unlike conventional forces. Putin just begin modernizing it.

Go away poopniks

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This was such a brilliant coup I don't know why /k turns it into a meme. Fucking spies, dozens of tries, and they literally took down what the West said was impossible. Total props.

this guy knows what’s up

if a couple of drunken slav peasants can find the time to work out some basic trigonometry inbetween removing kebab imagine what some chink based countermeasures can cook up

that single f117 cost more than the entire gdp of ussr Yugoslavia, yea you can’t down them all but losing a handful of billion dollar aircraft will send us trillions more into debt that we can’t replenish

tl;dr
when your tech is so advanced you’re afraid to use it for sheer $ and potential enemy capture to reverse engineer it’s not really a deterrent unless you’re going all in MAD style

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You are the kinda guy who never belived the Internet would catch on arent you?

Reduced RSC isnt some kind of magic thing that will make you indestructable, but it gives you a big advantage

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>Hooray, we shoot down an enemy stealth plane
And failed to stop NATO forces from completing their mission. Killing enemy and protecting your ground assets are not same kind of missions. You're making a Kraut mistake. It is when German WWII aces made high scores by hunting for damaged and those who fell behind. Completely ignoring main mission - preventing Soviet and American bombers from destroying the ground forces.

>F-15 still better

What coup?

Who are the two guys depicted anyway?

>we shot down one fighter with a sixties soviet SAM
>freakishly perfect conditions
I didn't know opening bay doors was freakishly perfect. Or being nearby to a SAM. Does stealth rely on the enemy not having enough SAMs to cover an area?

>but it gives you a big advantage
In theory yeah. In practice, neither the F-22 nor the F-35 (or even the chinese stealth thing) will face real threat any time soon.

And the only time where "stealth" had to face an actual army (read, not disorganised arabs) it didn't go so good (Serbia).

>/k
You mean Jow Forums, right?

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>And the only time where "stealth" had to face an actual army (read, not disorganised arabs) it didn't go so good (Serbia).

There was one Nighthawk shot down and one alleged to be damaged. Not really a bad performance by any metric when you consider how many sorties were flown. Not to mention the shootdown was in near-perfect conditions- they had scouts looking at the airbase to determine the exact time it took off, and it was flying the same route every day next to a bunch of stratotankers.

That shootdown was much down to US air force leadership beeing retards, not the aircraft itself. Also, the battery commander himself said that most of it was just down to pure luck. IIRC they fired a shitton of missiles just to get that one hit.

>Still crowing over what was mostly the result of complacency in mission planning
You didn't stop anything else.

>Same plane flying same route daily for weeks
>SAM CO knew exactly where to set up and when to start pinging
>Still had to try more times than doctrine allowed, lucking out there was no pre-launched HARM in flight
>Only got a lock because at that moment the bay doors opened, giving enough RCS to lock with
You're a retard.

>muh same route
Kek, you do know it was shot 13km away right? That's a 26km diameter of coverage. A soviet SAM from the fucking sixties.

>when to start pinging
Haha the story changes every time I hear it. Did the Serbs now have intel on when the plane took off and its flight speed? I thought they only had the route! Next time I hear this, they'll have the plane's serial number, and after that the pilot's AOL account.

>bay doors open
Is a stealth plane opening it's bay doors a freakish condition now?

They fired two missiles consecutively. It's standard interception procedure to fire more than one.

Putting aside the fact that the Serbs had an economy and military the size of Afghanistan going against a coalition of 70% of the world's economy, it's not the number of interceptions (which is horribly skewed because of how outnumbered they were). It's how they managed to do it, when they weren't supposed to at all.

And don't give me shit about muh perfect storm. It was shot down 13 km away, and all stealth planes have to open their bay doors. By a sixties radar. Even if we assume adversial radar hasn't improved in half a century, SAMs intercepting stealth craft 13km away is NOT the magic bullet that stealth was sold to us. We've probably paid over a trillion in costs for this crap.

And please don't bring up standoff missiles. We aren't talking about air tactics but the usefulness of stealth.

Yeah, but didnt they try for like a month before they got a hit?

The usefullness of stealth is when its combined with stand off tactics tho. Dropping bombs on an enemy with a working SAM-network isnt, and has never been a good idea. Especially when you fly along the same path for weeks.

>And don't give me shit about muh perfect storm
Well, it was. They were flying the same route for weeks at the same speed, the Serbs had scouts that told them exactly when the Nighthawk took off, and it was in formation with a bunch of Stratotankers for most of its mission. Don't get your info from Southfront and people won't call you out on it.
>NOT the magic bullet that stealth was sold to us
Over 850 sorties and they had ONE shootdown. Fuck off.

Fucking this

But you can fire standoff missiles from outside the SAM range. That's why they're call standoff missiles. Cruise missiles vastly outrange interceptors.

>Vatnik/Serb damage control

Yeah, and those platforms who fire the cruise missiles will not be nearly as vunerable to the opponents air force if they are stealthy.

Probably just Mandic with his tag turned of

>same route at the same speed
So they traveled at the same speed now? Is there a source for that?

>formations with stratotankers
You're getting your facts mixed up. A stratotanker above Bosnia saw the explosion. They had stratotankers at midway points to refuel the craft. Why would a stratotanker fly anywhere near a country in NATO's backyard? And how would a stratotanker compromise an F 117 stealth?

>850 sorties
Congrats on your simultaneous inability to read and comprehend. I don't care if they flew a million sorties, if stealth worked as some companies and generals claim, it would never be hit. It produced a target lock 13km out at least. By the shooters testimony they detected it many times that. It's not a triple A gun firing blindly into the air here.

And again, stop bragging about outgunning Yugoslavia, a recently post communist country of seven million. You know how big their economic was? 120 million. The American Samoa's economy is six times bigger.

I feel like you're just throwing out random facts at this point to save face.

Yes, everyone who disagrees with you must be either biased or paid to do so. Let's ignore the probability of a serb speaking good English on a predominantly American forum.

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>Still trying to claim anyone intelligent thinks stealth makes a plane invisible or untouchable
Your asshat is showing. Do something stupid like fall into complacency and you'll get fucked by it.

When you say blatantly wrong shit straight off the fucking script you don't get the benefit of a doubt Yevgeny.

most of my friends speak perfect english, only the previous generation doesn't
suck a dick druze

>B-but muh F-117 shootdown

The F-117 is retired faggot, and 40+ years old. What happend to it in the 90's is compleatly irrelevant considering none of the modern stealth airframes is even remotly similar, or intended to be used the same way.

This is surprisingly accurate.

0.2 BTC has been deposited to your skunkworks 401k goy

Thanks, now go stay irrelevant and outdated somewhere else

>parrots shit that idiots have spammed for years
>gets offended when he gets called an idiot
Wew

>0.2 BTC
>1263.80 US-Dollar
Vatniks cant into anything.

Detection tech evolves much faster than passive stealth.

Anyway, these threads are always the same. 90% underage wanabee poltards and maybe 10% of some sort of theorycrafting.

While that might be true, a regular legacy airframe would be detected at far longer ranges then a stealthy one, no matter how good or bad the detection systems are.

I love the implication here that the US hasn't evolved their own radar tech as fast or faster. We just don't waste resources on the false economy of ground-based anti-aircraft systems.

>We just don't waste resources

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Developing a concept based on a theory that turns out unworkable isn't the same as wasting funding on a system that has never worked.

>By a sixties radar.
yeah modified by the chinks
why do you think their embassy got owned a little while later? That was no fucking accident. That was revenge

Except you forgot:
>on the false economy of ground-based anti-aircraft systems
Also, FCS wasn't that bad in terms of how the project was handled. It was simply expected to do too much at the weight limit- it was held back by the C-130. That's not the same as basing your entire air defense structure around AA- or for that matter, developing a fighter that's decades behind the rest of the world, and not even being able to afford that.

This. It's the only meaningful thing that has happened in their recent history.

>wasting funding on a system that has never worked.
>Bulletproofed vests can't protect against 20mm cannons, so they are useless
You don't know when AA worked, because no one will tell you "we canceled our invasion/bombing run because it's too risky".

>That's not the same as basing your entire air defense structure around AA
Who does that? Not Russians or Chinks, obviously.

>Who does that? Not Russians or Chinks, obviously.
Well Russian fighters are complete shit and they canceled their "5th" generation fighter program. They couldn't offer a credible air defense other than their AA sites.

AA has never impeded an air campaign, and since Mole Cricket hasn't even had serious kill counts.

>AA has never impeded an air campaign
Since Iran has operational nuclear reactor and other facilities - it safe to say that yeas, it did. Also, Assad is alive and well, so yea, surely it did.

Ha, good one. Political barriers aren't the same as IADS restrictions.

>Political barriers
>Israel
Bro, srsly, they're bombing whoever they want, whenever they want unless you have enough AA to stop them. Iran build enough. Syrians are somewhere on that "enough" line. Also, Israel AA is OK too.

Israel's AA is anti-mortar/rocket. They don't depend on ground systems to protect their airspace. They take fighters up and chase off/shoot down intruders.

And last I checked US and Russia have grudgingly maintained their airspace agreement over Syria, which Russia keeps testing.

We need the Lada user into this thread. Someone saved that copypaste about Serbs being retarded little brother?

Who says they cannot?

It would be mindblowingly stupid for them to say they could,m better for them to keep things under wraps until they think they will need to act on tracking them.

Really? Because I distinctly remember the US military selling stealth as a way to effectively penetrate hostile enemy air space. Or a way to launch a first strike with little warning. But if the Serbs are to be believed, you can detect stealth planes even further away by just switching to a longer wavelength.
Is parroting facts offensive now?
US radar isn't the issue. It's whether stealth can remain undetectable at long enough ranges. The Soviets dismissed stealth because they believed that missile ranges would be shorter, which is the same question. Yes stealth will let you be less detectable, but whether this decrease in detection range is effective and practical is another issue.